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[Proposal] TOR - VAN


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#31 Baercheese

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:57 AM

And Kadri has only gotten time when the injuries are so bad there is no one else left to call up, they have had players go 20 games without a goal and have been huge minus's yet they have still kept them playing over Kadri, for example last year they called up Kadri due to injuries after they had already called up 3 players. He came up and was one of the better players on the team, was producing well and better than some regulars, he was a + player too and they sent him down. He has been in the AHL putting up PPG #'s for 3 years, he is a career + player, IMO his defensive game is fine, they have treated him poorly.

It seems to me he is always the last player to get called up, then when he plays well they always have to find something to pick apart with him, like saying he isn't good enough defensively even though he is a +.


And if he came here and was given a shot on the 2nd line (Since he can play wing, is a playmaking player, has a great offensive skillset, can play fine defensively) I think it could be a fit, and if not then he is playing on the Wolves with Kassian and we wait for him to help us in the future.

And honestly, Luongo will help them more than Kadri can, and I think he (Lu) will be more important for the Leafs now then Kadri will be in the future, I don't see him living up to his full potential there, thats just my opinion.

I don't really follow the Leafs, nor will I, but I would assume Burke wasn't going to call up Kadri unless there was a spot in the top 6 for him, where he would truly excel. If I remember correctly last year both Grabovski and Bozak were relatively healthy, so calling Kadri up to use him as a grinder would be a real waste wouldn't you think? So instead he sends him back and have him play top minutes in the AHL.

As for the bolded statement, how is that different than what the Leafs have been doing?
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Johnny Gaudreau>any Casucks

Edler, Markstrom, Hansen, 2nd round pick 2014 to Islanders for Ryan Strome, 5th overall pick 2014

This is fairly even as well.

 


#32 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:10 AM

I don't really follow the Leafs, nor will I, but I would assume Burke wasn't going to call up Kadri unless there was a spot in the top 6 for him, where he would truly excel. If I remember correctly last year both Grabovski and Bozak were relatively healthy, so calling Kadri up to use him as a grinder would be a real waste wouldn't you think? So instead he sends him back and have him play top minutes in the AHL.

As for the bolded statement, how is that different than what the Leafs have been doing?


I guess so, but there isn't a spot for Kadri then unless someones gets injured or there play goes south and also, alot of there players who are supposed to be top 6 forwards struggled, alot. And they still kept them there and sent Kadri down when Kadri was playing well, I just think overall his treatment hasn't been that great, there are particular instances you could question though.

And it's not really but the thing is he should have cracked there roster already IMO and here maybe he wouldn't have had that chance (Even though heading into this season we have spots open for him to potentially grab), expect the difference for next season would be there is a chance for him to be in the top 6 here, whereas in Toronto they think they have there top 6 set right now.

They like there 2nd line: Kulemin - Grabovski - McArthur, that was one of the bright spots heading into last season, and then they have already stated they are going to go with JVR as the 1st line center, that would leave the 3rd line as the only line for him to crack, but he has to battle Frattin, Connolly, Lombardi, Colbourne, Ashton, McClement, exc. for it.

In Vancouver we have a 2nd and 3rd line spot for him, and the competition would be less here for the 2nd line spot than it would be there for the 3rd line spot IMO.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 04 January 2013 - 04:12 AM.

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#33 Gollumpus

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:06 AM

In Vancouver we have a 2nd and 3rd line spot for him, and the competition would be less here for the 2nd line spot than it would be there for the 3rd line spot IMO.


True enough.

As a 2RW, Kadri would have perhaps only Kassian as real competition, at least in the short term. Higgins or Raymond could be outside choices, and there's always the slim chance of another trade or UFA signing.

At 3C he would have to compete with Malhotra, Lapierre, Schroeder and Ebbett, and perhaps anyone else Gillis brought in as a UFA (or even another trade). All of these guys are better suited to a 3C role than Kadri (even Schroeder, who has the potential to be a 2C).


regards,
G.
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#34 King of the ES

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:18 AM

So we have been lead to believe that Luongo deal to Toronto will happen once the lockout ends. With the ability to buy out 1 possibly 2 contracts i bet It's Burkes thinking that we buy out Komisarek in the deal. I forsee something like this happening.

To Posted Image: Roberto Luongo

To Posted Image: Tyler Bozak, James Reimer, Mike Komisarek, TML 2nd 2014

I think the value is properly demonstrated and for doing the buyout the canucks get a 2nd round pick in return with Komisarek.

Bozak would help our 2nd line center positional needs till Kesler is ready to return and also make Kesler Possibly Expendable.

Thoughts ?


Very good proposal, overall, though I would exchange Reimer for Scrivens. I wouldn't want Reimer on this team. There's a bit of "Tebow" in him, which would not be good for Schneider. Scrivens is signed until 2014 @ $612K.

Realistic proposal that is a representation of fair value. Nice job.
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#35 King of the ES

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:25 AM

So what's a reasonable trade for Luongo ? Nobody else has said anything ? If my deal doesn't work then what does ?

Didn't realise he was the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy and was gonna stop choking in the playoffs. So what should we ask for ? Kadri, Gardiner and a 1st ?


Seriously, don't ask these guys. Some proposals from the crowd that's responded within this thread:
  • To Tampa, for Purcell/Aulie/1st
  • To Toronto, for Kadri/Biggs/1st
For the record, my proposal had him going to Chicago in a deal centered around Nick Leddy. Tyler Bozak would also make a lot of sense for this team.

Most people don't understand the constraints/market dynamics that surround this deal.
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#36 King of the ES

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:26 AM

His value doesn't go down that much just because there's only a couple of teams interested.


:picard:
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#37 King of the ES

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:27 AM

To Toronto: Luongo, maybe a prospect (contract dump, necessary if option #2 is used)

To Vancouver: Biggs, Ashton, Colborne, 2014 1st OR Biggs, Ashton, Bozak, 2014 1st, Franson


This is hilarious. I suspect that you're going to be very disappointed, G.
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#38 Pears

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:35 AM

This is hilarious. I suspect that you're going to be very disappointed, G.

Coming from the guy that thinks a plug, a pending free agent, a goalie we don't need and a pick that doesn't do any good for us is a good proposal :lol:

King, I'm sorry to break it to you, but Gillis will just not give Luongo up for crap like that. You will be the one that will be disappointed.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#39 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:31 AM

True enough.

As a 2RW, Kadri would have perhaps only Kassian as real competition, at least in the short term. Higgins or Raymond could be outside choices, and there's always the slim chance of another trade or UFA signing.

At 3C he would have to compete with Malhotra, Lapierre, Schroeder and Ebbett, and perhaps anyone else Gillis brought in as a UFA (or even another trade). All of these guys are better suited to a 3C role than Kadri (even Schroeder, who has the potential to be a 2C).


Yeah the 2RW spot would be a much better fit for him, and I actually agree with Schroeder >Kadri for the 3C spot, JS is better defensively.

Glad we agree.

Very good proposal, overall, though I would exchange Reimer for Scrivens. I wouldn't want Reimer on this team. There's a bit of "Tebow" in him, which would not be good for Schneider. Scrivens is signed until 2014 @ $612K.

Realistic proposal that is a representation of fair value. Nice job.


Oh King agrees with you Ari.

This is not good.

Just kidding King. ;)
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#40 Gollumpus

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:32 AM

This is hilarious. I suspect that you're going to be very disappointed, G.


Well, I suppose that's better than being very, very disappointed... :)

In either of the proposals, the return coming here isn't as much as you seem to think. These proposals help the Leafs in the sense that they get the goalie they need at the cost of some good (but not great) prospects while leaving their core and high end prospects in place (eg. Rielly, Gardiner).

These proposals help the Canucks by stocking the cupboard with a number of good propects and picks who will help this team continue to be competitive for many years to come.

Otherwise, hope your sides aren't hurting too much.

regards,
G.
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#41 shawn antoski

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

VAN
Franson, + Biggs, + pick or prospect

Toronto
Luongo
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#42 King of the ES

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

In either of the proposals, the return coming here isn't as much as you seem to think. These proposals help the Leafs in the sense that they get the goalie they need at the cost of some good (but not great) prospects while leaving their core and high end prospects in place (eg. Rielly, Gardiner).


Any 1st round pick should be thought-of as high-end. I assume that you think guys like Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen are high-end, right? That being the case, why shouldn't guys like Kadri, Ashton, or Colbourne be seen in an equal light?
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#43 Pineapples

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

:picard:


The insight in this post is unmatchable!

If you disagree with me, then say why. Oh wait, I think I already know the answer :rolleyes:

Edited by BUREV, 05 January 2013 - 12:12 AM.

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#44 Gollumpus

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:58 AM

Any 1st round pick should be thought-of as high-end. I assume that you think guys like Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen are high-end, right? That being the case, why shouldn't guys like Kadri, Ashton, or Colbourne be seen in an equal light?


Oh, I get it. So what you're saying is that Hodgson is just as high-end as Stamkos, in that they were both 1st round selections by their respective teams.

This being the case, might we say that it is justified that Hodgson should be seen in an equal light to Filatov? Yeah, that works nicely. Good job. :)


regards,
G.
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#45 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:49 AM

Any 1st round pick should be thought-of as high-end. I assume that you think guys like Kassian, Gaunce, and Jensen are high-end, right? That being the case, why shouldn't guys like Kadri, Ashton, or Colbourne be seen in an equal light?


I agree in some sense, but when you look at the players and compare I think the 3 you mentioned from our side are better than the 3 you mentioned from their side.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 05 January 2013 - 02:55 AM.

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#46 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:54 AM

Oh, I get it. So what you're saying is that Hodgson is just as high-end as Stamkos, in that they were both 1st round selections by their respective teams.

This being the case, might we say that it is justified that Hodgson should be seen in an equal light to Filatov? Yeah, that works nicely. Good job. :)


regards,
G.


No he thinks Hodgson should be seen in an equal light to the Sedins when they were drafted, actually higher, he thinks Hodgson is in a brighter light when the Sedin's were drafted.

I guess we traded away the next Stamkos for the Ben Eager, oh boy what did we do!!! :'(
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#47 Gollumpus

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:23 AM

No he thinks Hodgson should be seen in an equal light to the Sedins when they were drafted, actually higher, he thinks Hodgson is in a brighter light when the Sedin's were drafted.

I guess we traded away the next Stamkos for the Ben Eager, oh boy what did we do!!! :'(


Agreed. Sad panda now. :(

regards,
G.
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#48 Lockhart

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

LOL @ the Leafs being patient with Kadri, if they were being patient with him he would have been playing in the NHL last year. They would let him make a mistake or two at the NHL level........
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#49 laxgoalie

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

Agreed. Sad panda now. :(

regards,
G.


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#50 King of the ES

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

I guess we traded away the next Stamkos for the Ben Eager, oh boy what did we do!!! :'(


This might turn out to be more accurate that you intended in this post.

And you've also called Justin Schultz "overpaid and overhyped", which I also think you'll regret.

But I guess you and your pal G can just hold your collective breaths until sending Luongo to the Leafs brings us back Kadri, Biggs, Colbourne, Ashton, and their 1st. Good luck with that.
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#51 DonTaylor4President

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

I would be really unhappy if the OP went through. Although somehow value could be considered close to fair, Gillis would never even consider that trade. The only return that could help us is Bozak, but other than him we have no need for Reimer, who would get stuck behind Schneider and never gain much trade value, then there's Komisarek whose uselessness needs no explanation, and Toronto's second which is nothing to write home about.

About the Leafs not being willing to trade Kadri who they have been very "patient" with... I don't believe this is the case at all and I believe Toronto will be very willing to part with him in a Luongo trade, and a change of scenery for Kadri could only do him well. I also don't think Franson will be part of a Luongo trade because if he wasn't happy with his role on the Leafs, then there is no way he would sign with us to fight for a roster spot.

This is my ideal Luongo trade:

Toronto - Luongo, Raymond & 2013 2nd

Vancouver - Bozak, Kadri & 2013 1st

I think Bozak would be prime for our third line center. Kadri should be given a shot as 2nd line center if Kesler is still injured and then when Kes is back give him a chance on the Kesler's wing.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kadri
Higgins - Bozak - Hansen
Malholtra - Lapierre - Kassian
Weise/Volpatti

I would rotate Kadri, Higgins and Kassian as 2nd line wing and hopefully Kass or Kadri would earn their spot, but if not Higgins would stay on the second line, Kadri would go to the minors and Kassian could develop on the third line with Hansen and Bozak.
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#52 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:23 PM

This might turn out to be more accurate that you intended in this post.

And you've also called Justin Schultz "overpaid and overhyped", which I also think you'll regret.

But I guess you and your pal G can just hold your collective breaths until sending Luongo to the Leafs brings us back Kadri, Biggs, Colbourne, Ashton, and their 1st. Good luck with that.


Lol if you think Hodgson will be anything close to Stamkos.

He doesn't have the speed or explosiveness to be Stamkos, and I doubt he has the strength and physical tools to be either, cause he is smaller.

Your clearly still blinded by the Canucks hype on Coho as I once was, now step back and assess what he really is.

In comparison to what Kassian brings to our organization long term, and I really like the move. (And he was better than Eager last year BTW)

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 05 January 2013 - 04:24 PM.

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#53 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

LOL @ the Leafs being patient with Kadri, if they were being patient with him he would have been playing in the NHL last year. They would let him make a mistake or two at the NHL level........


Exactly.
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#54 Phil_314

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

I'd be content with a trade based on Kulemin and Bozak plus pick/ prospect (wouldn't mind Jesse Blacker ) for Lu.

Nik's had an off-season but he should be a fit for the playoffs, esp. with the physical style he can play and the fact that the line he plays on the Leafs (with MacArthur and Grabovski) is built around speed on the the rush and making plays down low. That is very similar to the Kesler - Booth line he would join here, and he's pretty decent as a passer too (was looking at someone like Kunitz or Smyth as physical play makers who could fit here but I think Nik's another option, plus he's only 26).

Bozak's depth that can move up the charts, though he'd be a decent play maker for Hansen and Higgins. Blacker also sounds promising, aggressive both physically and offensively.
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#55 sampy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

Rielly or Gardiner. Canucks need an offensive dman. They don't have a true one in the organization. JVR would be a very good return as well.

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#56 eretz canucks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

sampy- I wish bro- but Burke wont move either player.
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#57 sampy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

sampy- I wish bro- but Burke wont move either player.


I think it possible. Maybe in a bigger trade. Hopefully MG plays it right and Burke get desperate. The entire TSN crew said the Leafs are no where near playoffs without Lu and the Veteran elite goalie be perfect for the team.
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#58 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

I don't like it.

Reimer = Lack in terms of playoff experience.
Bozak I think could be good but I don't think he'd re-sign in VAN if other teams are looking for a 2C.
Komisarek? But you already addressed why.
2nd round pick 2014 (presumably late pick)

So yeah, i don't find that very attractive. Much rather keep a Luongo <-> Schneider tandem for the playoffs and wait for a better deal.

As a side note in the event of a trade with TOR... Personally, I'd start with Franson. Because he fills a need. I see that value above Reimer, and nearly equal to Komisarek and Bozak but with RFA status. Or in other words, a back-up G, depth veteran D and 3rd line C could be filled by FA signings or other trades. Finding an equivalent to Franson would be more difficult IMO. Hell, we had to give up Hodgson AND Sulzer to get Gragnani. :bigblush:
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#59 thad

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

Why the hell would we buy out MK for them?Bozak, an ahl goalie and a 2nd for Lu and millions of dollars is absolutely crazy. Florida will give us better than that and Toronto wants him more.

Edit forgot Reimer

Edited by thad, 06 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.

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