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Hodgson stresses positives about his time with Canucks


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#121 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

I love the way you phrased these two posts. :rolleyes:

Explain please.
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#122 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:50 PM

It will be years before a realistic assessment can be made of this deal.

Suggestions that CoHo could have been the 2nd center would have potentially been explosive between the Canucks and Kesler. A possibility that Kesler might have been more forthright about his physical condition but we don't know that he was not. The bottom line is that the 2nd line had been ineffective for 2 seasons and CoHo might have helped more with increased ice. His PP time was an indicator of his potential.

Kassian - CoHo straight up is how this deal gets assessed long term which ignores the other two MAG and Sultzer. I liked Sulzer and did not like MAG's constant gambling. Acquiring Kassian confirmed a Canuck need for more size and also recognized the Canuck timeline of CUP contention now and not 3 -4 years from now. ie Kassian could provide a physical presence immediately. The other aspect in the deal was CoHo's health history which makes a long term career a question mark.


I agree, we have to wait because we have to wait and see what Zack can do, he's younger and he is behind Cody is a bit in his development, that's not to say he won't be just as good a player or a better player, or a worse player, who know's right now, it looks like both guys have the potential to be 2nd line players and bring the different things they bring so we will just have to wait and see what happen right.

And yeah Cody wouldn't have gotten higher minutes anyways so there really was nowhere for him to go in our organization, I have no issue with moving him.

Honestly I liked the Sulzer/Gragnani swap at the time, obviously it failed a bit but it looked like he might bring a solid contribution, still think we should have held onto him I think there is still a bit of upside there, and he would have been a better option than either Mullen or Joslin.

Oh well not a big loss.

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#123 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

Cody avoiding questions about the trade is not something to read into as a negative. It simply means he is smart enough to keep business in house, something our GM doesn't seem to put much stock in.

Cody's been given a lot of ammo to take a return shot at Gillis. I would be thoroughly entertained if he did too, nothing like twisting the knife in your old boss, especially one that ripped you in public. He'll remain quiet though, like a good lil soldier.


I think MG should have said what he said, maybe not quite the way he said it, but I have no issue with him letting the Fans know the logic behind the deal, and it cleared things up, honestly I think the fans deserve to know.

He could have just said "There clearly were issue's that we on-going and we made the determination that he didn't want to be here" and he should/could have just left it there, but the more than any other player over 3 years comment is the one that people get so riled up about.

I do think he deserves to let us know why he made the move just like he had for everyother trade.

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#124 Guest_Gumballthechewy_*

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

Whoops.

Oh well, Cody still won the gold, Zack won the silver.

:bigblush:


Then by your logic Kassian is better because he has a WJC Silver and a Memorial Cup where as Hodgson only has WJC Gold.

#125 nuck nit

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

Yeah,but he could not state that 'he did not want to be here' as that would be a lie.

The issues were Canucks front office created and of course Gillis had to deal with them because he and AV and their medical staff were responsible for them.

Gillis over exaggerated and covered his own butt,which is a no-no in any realm of management ,never mind the sports world.

We always want any management to be able to take the higher road and always,always,always protect your employees or in this case,players.

Gillis dumped on Hodgson.AV did a dump job. Yet Hodgson has never,ever said a bad word about Vancouver.

#126 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:07 PM

Yeah,but he could not state that 'he did not want to be here' as that would be a lie.

The issues were Canucks front office created and of course Gillis had to deal with them because he and AV and their medical staff were responsible for them.

Gillis over exaggerated and covered his own butt,which is a no-no in any realm of management ,never mind the sports world.

We always want any management to be able to take the higher road and always,always,always protect your employees or in this case,players.

Gillis dumped on Hodgson.AV did a dump job. Yet Hodgson has never,ever said a bad word about Vancouver.

It's like you were in the room Nit.

I know...that's usually your line.
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#127 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

Honestly, why is there "zero chance" that Hodgson would've stayed here long-term? That's just stupid. The Sedin's are under contract for 1.5 more seasons. It would not surprise me at all for them to retire after that. Not saying that will happen, but it might. In addition, their production declined last season, and I expect that trend to probably continue. Kesler also played some of his best hockey on Sundin's wing. No reason to think that he wouldn't be willing to do that again, with a better playmaker like Cody as the better fit at the C position. The crap about Cody wanting to be close to his family is asinine.

And nope, apparently people can't judge Kassian on his production, either. That's all I've done in this thread, and it's created a lot of hatred towards me. Maybe we shouldn't start analyzing Kassian's performance until he's 25 or so?


Lol which franchise players retire at 34?

And yes rather than have the Selke winner from the year previous at center you put Cody there instead, you realize Center is just as much about defense and it is offense right? And also you add that they have to move around the ice the most favours Kesler's better defensive play and better mobility over Cody's playmaking prowess in the offensive zone.

And again on Kassian, no one is judging you for just putting the stats, it is the way you balatantly ignore the circumstances, and the other intangibles he brings that can't be reflected in point totals, which are identified by watching the games, which is part of the reason we got him is for those intangibles if you made a fair and well rounded assessment you wouldn't have gotten flamed, instead you turned things in your anti-Kassian favour with the purpose of aggravating the fan base and got roasted for doing so.

Cody Hodgson, as an assistant captain, helped lead Team Canada's 2009 WJC team to gold, leading the entire tournament in scoring and (obviously) named to the tournament's All-Star team.

Since Zack Kassian was never good enough to make a Canada WJC team, I guess we'll call them equal in the "Junior Team Winnings" department.


He did play in 2011 in Buffalo, and he was also won the Memorial cup something Hodgson didn't do, but I guess you conviently forgot about that.


And I'm not anti-AV, but that was a real dumb thing for him to do, and if it became a situation of coach vs. star young player, star young player should win that battle every time. Vigneault could have (and perhaps should have) been fired for those comments.

It would be interesting to learn more of what these "issues" with Cody were. I would guess that they were just related to him wanting more ice-time and a bigger role, which, IMO, is a good sort of "whining". He shouldn't be satisfied with being the 3rd line C, especially if his play warrants a bigger role, which it did.


I laugh so hard at this, so you won't accept the simple fact that Ballard has been underused by AV, and won't accept it labeling it an "excuse" yet you blame AV for not letting our "young star" get his way. And say he should have been fired for it.

Cody is not a "young star" by the way, a young star is Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, RNH, Tyler Myers, Alex Pietrangelo, Drew Doughty, John Tavares, exc. Cody isn't in their league.

I'm not sure in who's world a person with so much character as we were told, could have "good whining" and I'm not sure in who's world we could have held onto a player who didn't want to be here and was stuck behind 2 star players, niether of which he was going to overtake.

And the first part of your post (Which I didn't quote) is a perfect sign that there were issues with Cody and that he didn't want to be here, how does MG go from being so high on him and praising his character non-stop and all that stuff to suddenly saying there were issue's if it wasn't true?

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 05 January 2013 - 05:14 PM.

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#128 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:12 PM

Explain please.


I just got a chuckle, and I agree with them.

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#129 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:16 PM

I somehow doubt Hodgson has any ill feeling towards the Canucks medical staff. After all, his own doctor, the Toronto back specialist he sent him to, his junior team medical staff, and the highly regarded US back specialist they sent him to all came up with the same bulging disc problem. In the end it was the Vancouver medical staff that found the torn muscle that was aggravating the disc.


I don't think he has any ill feelings towards the medical staff. But I think he certainly had a huge issue with how his injury was presented to the media by AV (which was an absolutely brutal move on AV's part if you ask me)........I think if he truly had no hard feelings in that sense (or at the very least believed he knew better than the Canucks did) he would not felt the need to get his own doctor and do his own training rather than work under Gagner in the first place.

I am not really a fan of Hodgson but he had valid reasons to want out.

#130 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

Suggest you buy a Sedin jersey???

Like the best prospect the Canucks have had since....

Trevor Linden....

:bigblush:


Well your certainly right! We actually were desperately short on right wingers! And big wingers... Even when (as expected) Kassian makes the team this year we will be short another key right winger.

There are two types of wingers. It matters. RWers - the Canucks hardly had too many.
What are the decorations you are talking about?
Bone head assessment.


Nope; the last thing we should question is trading CoHo. Put two and two together, he asked for trades and was being a hassle.

The real mistake was what we got in return; a prospect. Not only that, a prospect who was less heralded and further behind in his development. I believe we could have, and should have got more.

It was one of 3 mistakes (2knd being Gragnani). The 3rd mistake was how MG handled it. To me he pulled a gamble, entrusting a prospect to fill a key hole. He said the trade was about creating "balance" for the play-off's. But when neither Grag's nor Kassian provided balance, then he pulled out daggers and started lto eak Hodgson's indiscretions. Basically to cover his butt amongst criticism.

But while it cost us a play off year, its otherwise not an epic failure; certainly not in the league of trading Cam Neely. Kassian will still be a viable and valuable piece. He has size, speed and hands that are rare in a big guy. He will still be a good guy for us. At least we got something!


Can't believe anyone can justify blaming managment for trading a rookie who is requesting a trade cause he can't get more icetime, can't take criticism, and can't accept that he has to play behind Henrik and Kesler, I don't understand these people, Coho would have left eventually anyways since he didn't want to be here.

but whatever


The problem with this argument is we already had an all star PP specialist in the AHL, also a left D. And we had Ballard already rotting as the third pair left D guy.

We had absolutely no need for this player. It reeks of MG over reacting, and making the deal because Grag's had been successful as a call up for the play off's the year before. He over valued him, and was the most obvious mistake in the deal!

There was a balance in the trade as it wasn't Hodgson for Kassian straight across.

Gragnani 25 yrs old pending RFA
59GP 2G 13A 15Pts +10

Sulzer 28 yrs old pending UFA
74GP 7G 8A 15Pts +2

Kassian is behind Hodgson in development but we also got a younger RFA in exchange for a UFA. Now Grags didn't exactly work out for us and circumstances in late June led to him not being qualified, but on paper we were getting the better of the two secondary players.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 05 January 2013 - 06:47 PM.


#131 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

I personally did not understand not qualifying Gragnani. Sure he didn't exactly work out as planned but he was at least as good as the guys on the farm. Could have helped the Wolves and been a decent PP specialist if one of our other guys went down for an extended period. Maybe the Canucks thought they had the inside track on Shultz, who knows.

#132 oldnews

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

Oh I don't know, William Hanley Trophy, Red Tilson Trophy, CHL Player of the Year, Hockey News Top Prospect, leading WJC tournament in scoring (gold), leading U18 championship tournament in scoring while being team captain (gold), OHL coach poll voted the smartest player, the hardest worker, the best on faceoffs, and the best penalty killer (so much for your constant assessment of him being a defensive liability, eh?)

Zack Kassian has one up on Hodgson in one area, though: getting arrested.



Oh you're right - you don't know.
Thanks for the OHL info King. So relevant.
Add - the best team player the Canucks ever had lol. Pure character. Lindenesque. Best prospect since lolz.

Have a look at Schroeder's WJC stats - compare his and Hodgson's performances on the Wolves/Moose - it's a saw off (actually Schroeder fared slightly better in both). Get over it. It's a done deal. Best of luck Hodgson.

Love that Kassian kid.
Great hockey trade for both teams and players.

Edited by oldnews, 05 January 2013 - 06:47 PM.


#133 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

Nope; the last thing we should question is trading CoHo. Put two and two together, he asked for trades and was being a hassle.

The real mistake was what we got in return; A PROSPECT. Not only that, a prospect who was less heralded and further behind in his development. I believe we could have, and should have got more.

It was one of 3 mistakes (2knd being Gragnani). The 3rd mistake was how MG handled it. To me he pulled a gamble, entrusting a prospect to fill a key hole (we were desperately short of RW, particularly with size as our LW's are not big). He asid the trade was about creating "balance" for the play-off's. But when neither Grag's nor Kassian provided balance, then he pulled out daggers and started lto eak Hodgson's indiscretions. Basically to cover his butt.

But while it cost us a play off year, its otherwise not an epic failure; certainly not in the league of trading Cam Neely. Kassian will still be a viable and valuable piece. He has size, speed and hands that are rare in a big guy. He will still be a good guy for us. At least we got something!


I agree, it's clear they were issue's. But anyways I'm actually of the opposite mind I think it was better than we got a prospect like Zack, and I explained it eariler but I will repost it here.

So this is why I think it is better we got Zack than a player in his prime.


I for one am happy we got a prospect at the similar level and not a roster player, because looking back at it right now it would have been a bad move and a waste of an asset.

If we had acquired a player that has a big contract and could play for us right now (That wouldn't have been a star player BTW, it would have been a above average player and a useful player but not a star) we would have been screwed at the next CBA.

The Cap is going to drop, and say we had traded him for a player in his prime with a significant contract, that would now cost us big time with the cap dropping, and it would have for sure cost us Alex Edler (Who I still am confident we can re-sign), which is worth more than Cody or the player we would have gotten in return.

Gary warned the GM's and Owners well in advance that the CBA is coming up and the next CBA could be unpredicable, and it looks like now going for a younger player that will be at the same level as Cody down the road looked to be the right move.


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#134 oldnews

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:51 PM

Since Zack Kassian was never good enough to make a Canada WJC team, I guess we'll call them equal in the "Junior Team Winnings" department.


You are as informed as you usually are.

#135 oldnews

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

Suggest you buy a Sedin jersey???

Nope; the last thing we should question is trading CoHo. Put two and two together, he asked for trades and was being a hassle.


First - you missed the reference - Smashian was sarcastically referring to King's claim that Hodgson is the biggest, best, greatest slam-dunk of a franchise, cornerstone player that the Canucks drafted since Trevor Linden. Hence the grin-face.

And second - - I don't think you followed the conversation - I have no idea what you are saying "Nope" to - I certainly was not questioning the trade.
Not only that - but people tend to forget that the Canucks didn't acquire Kassian alone - they also went out and acquired a shut-down 3rd line center who certainly held his own as a Canuck - the problem was not the third line - it was the hobbled first and second. No Hodgson was going to supplement Daniel and Kesler. Simple as that. The future is all that matters.

Edited by oldnews, 05 January 2013 - 07:05 PM.


#136 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

AHL Stats GP G A PTS PT/G

Cody Hodgson 18 5 14 19 1.06
Zack Kassian 27 7 12 19 0.68

Edited by ChuckNORRIS4Cup, 05 January 2013 - 07:36 PM.

Eh8NO.jpg

Trevor Linden Quote Nov. 29th 2012 [Asked if he would return to the game?]
"The game has been with me for a long time, if the right opportunity came about, you never know"


 

 

"You don't know this, but Trevor Linden had cracked ribs and torn rib cartilage for the last four games of the 1994 Stanley Cup Final," Cliff Ronning said. "You can't imagine what it's like to hear your captain, in a room down the hall, screaming at the top of his lungs as they injected the needle into his rib cage. Knowing him, he probably thought we couldn't hear. He would then walk into our dressing room like nothing had happened. That was inspirational."

 


#137 Dogbyte

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:18 PM

Cody Hodgson, as an assistant captain, helped lead Team Canada's 2009 WJC team to gold, leading the entire tournament in scoring and (obviously) named to the tournament's All-Star team.

Since Zack Kassian was never good enough to make a Canada WJC team, I guess we'll call them equal in the "Junior Team Winnings" department.


Completely sums up why it's so hard to point anything out to you.

Now if only Luongo won the the Gold he might have frickin trade value.

...

...

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#138 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:31 PM

Yeah,but he could not state that 'he did not want to be here' as that would be a lie.

The issues were Canucks front office created and of course Gillis had to deal with them because he and AV and their medical staff were responsible for them.

Gillis over exaggerated and covered his own butt,which is a no-no in any realm of management ,never mind the sports world.

We always want any management to be able to take the higher road and always,always,always protect your employees or in this case,players.

Gillis dumped on Hodgson.AV did a dump job. Yet Hodgson has never,ever said a bad word about Vancouver.


Actually Cody didn't want to admit that he didn't want to be here, as you can easily tell by the way he brushes it aside everytime he is asked about it.

And actually there is nothing wrong with MG explaining why he made the deal, did he go a bit to far into it in the frustration of the moment? Perhaps, but I'm not going to hold that against him. You, I or anyone else probably would have done the same thing.

He has the right to explain why he made the move and he did that by telling everyone that there were on-going issue's and that Cody didn't want to be here, this doesn't make Cody look great so he brushes it aside since he is still a young player trying to estabilsh himself and doesn't want to come off as selfish but I don't hold that against Cody either.

AHL Stats GP G A PTS PT/G

Cody Hodgson 18 5 14 19 1.06
Zack Kassian 27 7 12 19 0.68


Your point?

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 05 January 2013 - 11:33 PM.

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