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It's Official, the Americans have overtaken Canada in hockey


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#1 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

I hate to say it, but the proof us right before our eyes. The land of football and baseball added hockey to their repertoire.

Winning the gold 2 of the last 4 while our boys have been relegated to the sidelines the past few years. It hurts but I think something should be done, drastically before Slovakia overtakes us.

No matter what US hockey is doing, we should do better. Hockey is our sport. We should restore it to its rightful place.
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#2 Cromeslab

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:31 AM

Even though the USA has about 170 million more people to draw talent from I,m not worried.
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#3 cs2016

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

Lol. It's not the end of the world for Canada. Hockey exists outside of the juniors.
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#4 70seven

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:35 AM

I wouldnt say that just yet... They still have to beet us at the professional levels (WC, OG) to overtake the throne.

Honestly though IMO, it's good for us to have better competition world wide, and if the USA is getting better, than we should safley assume that hockey is growing down south, which is also very good for the sport.
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#5 Wesker

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

Awesome. :)
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#6 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:43 AM

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#7 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

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Ask RNH and our lock-out eligible mighty squad.
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#8 Boudrias

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:51 AM

Americans played well. The last I read both Canada and the USA have about 500,000 kids in organized hockey. Enrollment is decreasing each year in Canada.

The big Canadian advantage is Junior A hockey WHL, OHL and the Q. Highly competitive and generally well coached. The Americans take advantage of it.

In typical Canadian fashion the loss this year is seen as a positive by many media and CHA types. BS to that. When Canada won five straight it was with WHL coaches and old fashion physical play. Create the space and then capitalize. This year's team did not have any outstanding strengths or if they did, didn't show them. I saw a lot of low down play which didn't pay off and little hitting.
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#9 pimpcurtly

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

ebbs and flows
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#10 Wesker

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

As big a supporter of USA hockey I have to say lets not jump the gun here, the US hasn't overtaken Canada in hockey yet, we will eventually but we're not quite there. US has great talent and continues to improve a drastic rate, but like Canada in goal tending the US lacks elite players at the center position.
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#11 Salmonberries

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

What worked in 1972 is maybe not so effective now eh.
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#12 Zamboni_14

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

Americans played well. The last I read both Canada and the USA have about 500,000 kids in organized hockey. Enrollment is decreasing each year in Canada.

The big Canadian advantage is Junior A hockey WHL, OHL and the Q. Highly competitive and generally well coached. The Americans take advantage of it.


I'm going to disagree with the 2nd part... partially. I do think that some players and the US has taken advantage of the Canadian Jr leagues. But most of the players on the roster came from either US college hockey or the US Development team. So the biggest change has been the USNDT and their ability to grow better hockey players (which has also fed US college hockey.) Pair that up with a decline in enrollment in Canada, and that level of ability shrinks between the two sides.

The best part about the US getting better... it means a better rivalry for US/CAN hockey.. which means more money being generated when international games are played between the two (and in Canada's case it gives them a "B" rival after Russia.) I may wish a US/CAN rivalry be the top one in international play.. (being an american) but I know that it would take about 10-20 years of history being built up between the two (in either elimination games or championship games) at the same time needing Russia to decrease in their ability.
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#13 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

Even though the USA has about 170 million more people to draw talent from I,m not worried.


You mean 280 million more people.
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#14 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

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Let's look at the big picture shall we? I'm only going from 1990 as a sample size.

1990-97 Canada won 6 out of 7 World Junior championships
1998-04 No championships
2005-09 5 championships in a row
2010-13 No championships

If the USA is so dominant why did they finish 7th in 2012? No other individual country has had as much success in this tournament than Canada. This marks the first time since 1998 we didn't even finish in the top 3. So that's the first time in 14 years. But there is question marks with Team Canada. Coaching? Players? Leadership? Systems? Skills? Poor choices for assembling the team? Strategy?

The US has won a total of 3 World Juniors in 23 years. And finished in the medal round only 7 times in 23 years.
Yes, USA Hockey is clearly improving as it's won twice in 4 years. Russia has won 4 times since 1999. Sweden once, and Czech Republic twice.

Big picture is Russia/Soviet Union and Canada are the only two teams that are even in the same league when it comes to World Junior titles.



http://en.wikipedia....nship_medalists

Edited by Ghostsof1915, 05 January 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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#15 Tangelos

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

Canada has terrible goaltending every year. Does anyone else feel uneasy when Subban makes a save? Sure he's very athletic, but I'd rather have a big positional goalie who makes saves look easy rather than a goalie who has to sprawl on every shot. And why does he wear the skinniest pads imaginable? USA won because of goaltending and speed.
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#16 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

Let's look at the big picture shall we? I'm only going from 1990 as a sample size.

1990-97 Canada won 6 out of 7 World Junior championships
1998-04 No championships
2005-09 5 championships in a row
2010-13 No championships

If the USA is so dominant why did they finish 7th in 2012? No other individual country has had as much success in this tournament than Canada. This marks the first time since 1998 we didn't even finish in the top 3. So that's the first time in 14 years. But there is question marks with Team Canada. Coaching? Players? Leadership? Systems? Skills? Poor choices for assembling the team? Strategy?

The US has won a total of 3 World Juniors in 23 years. And finished in the medal round only 7 times in 23 years.
Yes, USA Hockey is clearly improving as it's won twice in 4 years. Russia has won 4 times since 1999. Sweden once, and Czech Republic twice.

Big picture is Russia/Soviet Union and Canada are the only two teams that are even in the same league when it comes to World Junior titles.



http://en.wikipedia....nship_medalists


This is like saying the Oilers are great because of their Stanley Cups. It's a new generation out there my friend and the Americans are here and they are good and getting better while we are deteriorating.
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#17 Hobble

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

As soon as we get a competent goaltender and more players with actual skill and not just solid 2-way play, then we should win.
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#18 Lockhart

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

We should have won, we had the best roster on paper BY FAR.
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#19 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:27 PM

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This is like saying the Oilers are great because of their Stanley Cups. It's a new generation out there my friend and the Americans are here and they are good and getting better while we are deteriorating.


Might want to look at 2012 World Juniors. USA only beat Denmark, they lost every other game. And finished 7TH.
Yes, new generation indeed.
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#20 canucklax

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:47 PM

As big a supporter of USA hockey I have to say lets not jump the gun here, the US hasn't overtaken Canada in hockey yet, we will eventually but we're not quite there. US has great talent and continues to improve a drastic rate, but like Canada in goal tending the US lacks elite players at the center position.


I agree. The U.S. used to only get players from the great lakes and new england, now we have players from athletic hotbeds like California, Texas, and Florida. More new markets are emerging for players to choose to play hockey instead of football or basketball. Canada is still a better hockey country overall, but there is a new wave of talented young players coming out of the States
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#21 Dragonfruits

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

im glad other teams other then canada are medaling to be honest its been a bit stale expectations of team canada have been way too high every year its expected to win the gold and go 6-0 we need to start lowering expectations and enjoy the hockey
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#22 Kamero89

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

Yes they were the best U 19 team this year. but until they beat us on the Olympic stage, they are not better.
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#23 laxgoalie

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

USA: http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary (Minus Stastny and Pomminville)
Quick, Schneider, Howard

Canada: http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary (Add Crosby)
Price, Luongo, Fleury

Nope I think we're still better, but that's just me i guess.
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#24 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

lol
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#25 playboi19

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

Crosby SCORES!!!!!

Olympic Gold Medalists and therefore the best in the World. USA will get their chance next year, but as of now a junior tournament means nothing. Salt Lake City and Vancouver, USA silver.

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#26 etsen3

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

There is so much wrong with that statement. USA may have (temporarily) overtaken us in the World Juniors, but that doesn't mean they've overtaken us in hockey. Does a two week tournament represent a country's skill at hockey as a whole? No. And besides, the USA team finished 7th last year after getting destroyed by Canada in the quarters. In a hockey tournament, it's not always the best country that wins, but which team plays best at that given time. Among the top contenders, it's about execution, just like in the NHL. So it's ridiculous to judge a whole country by such a short tournament with such a small sample of players.

USA can call us back when they win 5 WJ in a row. More importantly, they can call us back when they start producing more NHL players than Canada. Also, think of how many Americans take advantage of our junior hockey system.
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#27 canucklax

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:04 PM

USA can call us back when they win 5 WJ in a row. More importantly, they can call us back when they start producing more NHL players than Canada. Also, think of how many Americans take advantage of our junior hockey system.


This is an overblown statement made by many after the semifinal game. Galchenyuk was the only player on the roster to have played in the CHL before their draft year to my knowledge. The vast majority of U.S. players play in High school or USHL before the draft, and then are told by their NHL club to go play junior. The main supplier of U.S. hockey talent is the USNTDP in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Since its a 2 year program for 17 and 18 year olds, that is when Americans may choose to play junior or NCAA, again based off the recommendation of their NHL club in many cases
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#28 debluvscanucks

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

I honestly don't know that earning a bye does any sports team good...my guess is that, more times than not, it disrupts the flow/momentum that has been generated. Lay offs = not a good thing in what I've seen, whether it be hockey or football.

No excuses, but an observation.

And Canada was 4-0 (with12 pts) when the US was 2-2 (with 6)...that doesn't equate to US domination of Canada. They won the big games when it counted, and that is relevant...but in a game for game scenario, I don't think you should count Canada out just yet. That's not to take anything away from the US team - a big congratulations to them for a great win.

So we are to declare your word as the "official" one now? Makes you a little less than reputable to suggest so. And that "I hate to say" part?....I challenge that, too. ;)
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#29 SamJamIam

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

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#30 etsen3

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

This is an overblown statement made by many after the semifinal game. Galchenyuk was the only player on the roster to have played in the CHL before their draft year to my knowledge. The vast majority of U.S. players play in High school or USHL before the draft, and then are told by their NHL club to go play junior. The main supplier of U.S. hockey talent is the USNTDP in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Since its a 2 year program for 17 and 18 year olds, that is when Americans may choose to play junior or NCAA, again based off the recommendation of their NHL club in many cases


Still, the CHL is a key factor in the development of the players that go there, and NHL teams recommend it because it's a good system. Not saying that that Canada is fully responsible for developing these American players, but it does show the strength of our junior program. I would bet that even more players would come if it weren't for the education that the NCAA provides. Of course many Canadians also choose the NCAA because of the education.

Also, Seth Jones is another player who is currently playing in the WHL, and has not been drafted yet. Galchenyuk and Jones are arguably their two best players.

Edited by etsen3, 05 January 2013 - 01:28 PM.

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