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It's Official, the Americans have overtaken Canada in hockey


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#31 Jägermeister

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

I knew this would be a Mr. Reputable or a King of the ES thread before I even clicked on it.
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#32 shazzam

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

There is so much wrong with that statement. USA may have (temporarily) overtaken us in the World Juniors, but that doesn't mean they've overtaken us in hockey. Does a two week tournament represent a country's skill at hockey as a whole? No. And besides, the USA team finished 7th last year after getting destroyed by Canada in the quarters. In a hockey tournament, it's not always the best country that wins, but which team plays best at that given time. Among the top contenders, it's about execution, just like in the NHL. So it's ridiculous to judge a whole country by such a short tournament with such a small sample of players.

USA can call us back when they win 5 WJ in a row. More importantly, they can call us back when they start producing more NHL players than Canada. Also, think of how many Americans take advantage of our junior hockey system.


/thread
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#33 canucklax

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

Still, the CHL is a key factor in the development of the players that go there, and NHL teams recommend it because it's a good system. Not saying that that Canada is fully responsible for developing these American players, but it does show the strength of our junior program. I would bet that even more players would come if it weren't for the education that the NCAA provides.

Also, Seth Jones is another player who is currently playing in the WHL, and has not been drafted yet. Galchenyuk and Jones are arguably their two best players.


Jones played for the USNTDP last year but yeah you are correct, still thats only 2 players that chose CHL instead of American training pre-draft.

I'd say that the choice for teams to send players to junior is more so that they can evaluate them further in camp as NCAA players can't go to main camp, as well as more contact during the season, which the NCAA doesn't like, to keep the "amateur status". The CHL allows a more hands on approach for the NHL clubs which would interest them.
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#34 Jaku

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

Just because Canada lost to the USA and the USA won gold at this tourney doesn't at all mean they are a better hockey country. They have a set of really talented upcoming players, they battled hard and came up with a win. This is a bold statement and quite controversial statement.
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#35 Zamboni_14

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

Still, the CHL is a key factor in the development of the players that go there, and NHL teams recommend it because it's a good system. Not saying that that Canada is fully responsible for developing these American players, but it does show the strength of our junior program. I would bet that even more players would come if it weren't for the education that the NCAA provides. Of course many Canadians also choose the NCAA because of the education.

Also, Seth Jones is another player who is currently playing in the WHL, and has not been drafted yet. Galchenyuk and Jones are arguably their two best players.


I think playing style plays into which side to pick (Can Jr. or NCAA.) As it's already been stated, the hitting is usually more present in the Jr leagues while skating usually dominates NCAA. Plus I think some of the "late bloomers" find their stride in NCAA while they might fizzle in the Jr. systems. If there is any position that americans got better at recently because of Jr hockey.. it's goalie. Sure Miller and Thomas might have played NCAA.. but I think the american goalies that did play Jr. hockey finally got the US coaches to change how they trained goalies (we were in the dark ages compared to the rest of the world till fairly recently.)

Which is better? That's an endless (and biased) debate. It would be cool to see some exhibition games between the top Jr. teams against the top NCAA teams to add fuel to the debate
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#36 Zamboni_14

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

Just Canada to USA the won at tourney at mean are better country. They a of talented players, battled and up a win. This a statement quite statement.


sorry, I only heard half of what you said due to 1 medal covering my ear :P
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#37 bd71

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Everyone always goes overboard when Canada loses. Of course American talent has improved monumentally in the last 30 years but to suddenly declare Canadian hockey sub par as a result is asinine. It was a bad tournament and really it's getting to the point where there is way too much pressure on Team Canada anyway. I wonder if it will be harder to find coaches as they really have nothing to gain and everything to lose. If Steve Spott had of won he wouldn't have gained any respectability but now that he lost with that team he's going to get loads of heat and criticism.

In the end it's six or seven games over ten days. One bad afternoon cost them the whole thing. It happens. Doesn't change the level of Canadian talent. A short tournament often comes down to goaltending and that isn't Canada's strength at the moment and Josh Gibson (of the Kitchener Rangers) is stupid good.
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#38 Nail

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

Gibson should bring his MVP trophy, Top Goalie Award and Gold medal to his next Rangers practice to show Spott and Murphy :lol:
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#39 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

You win some , you lose some ,thats life .
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#40 ajhockey

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

Wow, another positive thread from Mr. Reputable!



I wouldn't say they've overtaken us yet. That's just the World Juniors. Even on top of that, there are many more Canadians in the NHL than Americans, and if you base it on a per capita scale, we destroy the US in every way. Even though the US has like 10x the population, they still have less players than us in the NHL. Canada also has the most ice rinks in the world by a long-shot.
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#41 Pears

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

Because a whopping 3 World Junior Gold Medals means America has overtaken us in hockey...your logics never cease to amaze me.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#42 etsen3

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:42 PM

I think playing style plays into which side to pick (Can Jr. or NCAA.) As it's already been stated, the hitting is usually more present in the Jr leagues while skating usually dominates NCAA. Plus I think some of the "late bloomers" find their stride in NCAA while they might fizzle in the Jr. systems. If there is any position that americans got better at recently because of Jr hockey.. it's goalie. Sure Miller and Thomas might have played NCAA.. but I think the american goalies that did play Jr. hockey finally got the US coaches to change how they trained goalies (we were in the dark ages compared to the rest of the world till fairly recently.)

Which is better? That's an endless (and biased) debate. It would be cool to see some exhibition games between the top Jr. teams against the top NCAA teams to add fuel to the debate


I think you're right about the late bloomer thing, CHL is known as more of a "fast-track" to the show. The CHL is a more "professionial"-style league. Way more games, more travel, NHL-style playoffs, no cages, fighting, etc. An advantage of the NCAA is more time for off ice training and the opportunity to play against older, more mature players.

Everyone always goes overboard when Canada loses. Of course American talent has improved monumentally in the last 30 years but to suddenly declare Canadian hockey sub par as a result is asinine. It was a bad tournament and really it's getting to the point where there is way too much pressure on Team Canada anyway. I wonder if it will be harder to find coaches as they really have nothing to gain and everything to lose. If Steve Spott had of won he wouldn't have gained any respectability but now that he lost with that team he's going to get loads of heat and criticism.

In the end it's six or seven games over ten days. One bad afternoon cost them the whole thing. It happens. Doesn't change the level of Canadian talent. A short tournament often comes down to goaltending and that isn't Canada's strength at the moment and Josh Gibson (of the Kitchener Rangers) is stupid good.


Pretty much this. People had many of the same questions about Canadian hockey from 1998-2004 when Canada had no gold medals. Then of course in 2005 Canada tore the world a new one and went on to win 5 in a row, and we went around beating our chest like we were invincible. Of course during that 5 year period we could have easily lost if it weren't for some extremely clutch performances, just like how in the last 4 years we could have won if someone would have come up big at the right time. So it's just the natural ebb and flow of things. You can't win em all and Canada will get its turn sooner rather than later.
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#43 Primus099

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

lol winning the World Juniors doesnt mean they've overtaken us is this a joke? maybe when the top 10 scorers in the NHL are mostly American or they actually win at the Olympics then we can start saying that. fail thread
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#44 poetica

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

Better hockey players = better hockey. I see no problem with that and don't understand why people are so obsessed with the nationality of players when most of the hockey we watch isn't nationality specific. Winning the Olympics or WJ is nice, but having a better pool of NHLers is better.
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#45 cIutch

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

aslong as we got olympic gold , we are still top of the world
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#46 WHL rocks

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:07 PM

No they haven't. It's no the first time the Americans won gold at world juniors and it's not the last. World Juniors is a tough tourney, 1 game and you are out.

The US quite possibly had the best team this year. Russians would have given them a go if they didn't lose in a shoot out to SWE. Anything can happen in these types of tourneys.

However it is safe to say the Americans are becoming a power in hockey. They now have the same amount of ice rinks as Canada does, soon they will have many many more rinks than we will.

In another 7 to 10 years they will take the number 1 spot but not yet.
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#47 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:14 PM

If its that easy to decide then were not even Bronze worthy
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#48 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

Jump the gun much? They beat us in one big game and suddenly they have overtaken us in hockey stature.

At the pro level we are and continue to be better, although the Americans are improving and this new generation is flexing there muscles.

Wait till Sochi, if we lose to them in Soschi then we are worse, but as it stands 1 WJ is great for the US but means nothing to us.
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#49 canucks.bradley

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

i wouldn't say overtaken but they are close to being on par. Their development program has gotten a lot better as of late, as well as the rest of the countries.

these tournaments are no longer going to be a cake walk as they once were.
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#50 thema

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:22 PM

This was one tournament. Remember, Canada could probably field 2 or 3 teams that could win this event at any given time. We lost two tough games, that's all. Next year.
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#51 Nail

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:14 PM

Does anyone think Seth Jones will make the 2014 USA Olympic team? I do at the rate he's progressing.
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#52 Salmonberries

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

I feel that fate may treat us a little better in these international tournaments if we just adjusted our mindset a little and went in with a bit of humility and good sportsmanship instead of the same old arrogance and truculence every time. The rest of the world takes too much satisfaction from our failures these days.
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#53 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:13 AM

Preposterous.
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#54 Pears

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:36 AM

Does anyone think Seth Jones will make the 2014 USA Olympic team? I do at the rate he's progressing.

He's a fair long shot from making it IMO. Unless a ton of injuries occur/players not playing up to par I doubt he'll beat out Suter, J. Johnson, E. Johnson, Yandle, Byfuglien, Orpik, Bogosian, Shattenkirk, McDonagh, Gardiner etc.

I could definetly see him getting an invite though.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 06 January 2013 - 05:37 AM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#55 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:48 AM

World Juniors isn't the best indication of a country's standing in hockey, the Olympics are far more important. That being said I don't like Canada's chances in the upcoming Olympics. Their defence is far worse than it used to be and goaltending will now be an issue with Luongo and Fleury both flopping lately.

My money's on Sweden and even Russia, especially on a larger ice-surface.
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#56 spliced

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

Actually I was thinking while the US has had a lot of positives in hockey lately they don't have a superstar player that would be considered when talking about the best in the world. Now that I think about it I wonder how it would effect hockey popularity in the states if there was an American Malkin or Crosby caliber player playing in a major US city.

As for the topic, no I don't think so. Maybe Goaltending but that's it. Come back to me when the US has won medals in 14 straight WJC and gold in the Olympics.
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#57 ilovewinona

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

I don't know why I keep clicking on Mr. Reputables topics :(
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#58 Hunter56

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

You mean 280 million more people.


And do you know how many of those people actually care about hockey? Not a lot.

I disagree with the topic, Canada is still the top hockey country in the world and will probably always be. I like the U.S. hockey teams, they are always the underdogs that can make a surprise run.
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#59 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:52 AM

I don't know why I keep clicking on Mr. Reputables topics :(


I know, bro, it's intriguing, unlike same old boring threads the proliferate these boards. My thread is like a breath of fresh air.
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#60 WHL rocks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:54 AM

And do you know how many of those people actually care about hockey? Not a lot.

I disagree with the topic, Canada is still the top hockey country in the world and will probably always be. I like the U.S. hockey teams, they are always the underdogs that can make a surprise run.


Yes I do, very well. I used to live in the US.
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