2 reported dead in California high school shooting

[Bertuzzi Babe]

*wonders what Wetcoaster needs to work on his wigglability factor in order to get out of "Except having firearms in the house makes it much more likely that a family member or guest will be a victim." for*

It has been proven time and time again that someone in a house where guns are present, accepted in a casual manner and unsafely stored is far more likely to be the victim of the resident firearm than anyone else is. Usually accidentally. But you wouldn't want facts or anything to get in the way of certain people's determination to troll others. The 'deliberate obtuseness' level is right off the meter for some folks.

[Guest Gumballthechewy]

[Wetcoaster]

We'll just let you argue with yourself, then.. there's no "misrepresenting" this:

(or this /topic/337655-us-gun-owners-show-off-their-christmas-toys/page__st__120__p__11036567">entire page you spend telling people how even a locked up gun is still dangerous because of it's presence in the house):

Have fun wiggling out of that. Sharpen up on your ad hominem because that's about all you have left now.

[Lockout Casualty]

Your post about stolen guns doesn't address an even bigger problem -- guns that come in from Mexico, which tend to far exceed limitations set by what few gun rules there are.

[Wetcoaster]

I'd like to see some statistics on that. From my readings, it seems the path of firearms is US>Mexico, not the other way around. Doesn't really make sense for the nation with almost 1:1 firearms to people ratio and ludicrously lax regulations to import black market guns from Mexico. I'll withhold judgement until I see some stats, but I've not even found a single link, much less a reputable source that states guns flow into the US.

[Lockout Casualty]

Not everyone has enough money to go to walmart and buy a freezer full of food for the winter. For myself i could afford to but choose not to because wild game taste better, is better for you and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

But until you have 3 or 4 kids to feed like my grandparents did or lots of people do today and there is not enough money to put a roof over their heads and feed the kids, then you can tell me whether or not a gun is necessary.

[Down by the River]

Yes. Would you like to dispute the fact that guns provide opportunity for more casualties?

No, criminals and police are not the only people. I have a number of friends who have their firearm licenses, and I'm considering getting it myself. In Canada, unlike the US, even handguns are kept under lock, separate from ammo, and can only be transported in the trunk and only to a gun range. That's a far cry from America where all sorts of guns can be kept loaded in every room of the house, with a number of states where people go to the grocery store with guns.

There are some 200,000 guns that are stolen in the US every year, by the way. Do you think criminals go to Criminals 'R Us to get their illegal guns?

And finally, you miss the whole bloody point. "Guns" are not bad. They are a tool meant for a specific purpose. However, it is a tool with a single purpose (unlike hammers and knives, a popular diversion) which when used properly kills people. Such a tool should be available only to those qualified to use it, with all the training and psychological screening as necessary. Failing that, you are leavings guns to the discretion of incompetent owners (like the mother), who even when in the know of mental conditions, fail to take necessary steps to prevent their guns from falling into wrong hands.

I know you're just going to patronize me with more "guns are bad, I'm convinced" posts, so long as you don't have to do any actual thinking to reflect the actual facts you picked up today. At least you can say, "Today I learned!"

[Tearloch7]

Good post. I am a gun owner. Have been since I was around 11 or 12 years old. It was not a toy. I did not pose with it in pictures. I did not show it off to my friends. I own a gun, and I am in favour of banning assault rifles and high capacity magazines. I think that there should be strict laws on trigger locks and other safe storage rules. I think that the process of acquiring a gun should be long and arduous. I am not opposed to government making it more difficult for me to own a gun.

[canadiancon]

A better solution to the problem you outline is a guaranteed income. If you can't feed 3-4 kids and are forced to hunt in Canada, there are big problems that are entirely unrelated to guns.

As for hunting itself, I agree. People who live in rural settings may even need a gun to take care of coyotes or a wildcat. You don't need an AR15 or a Glock for that though.

[Lockout Casualty]

So what if there are bigger problems? If someone needs to hunt to fees there family, then let them. It's no ones business on why they need to or what other financial problems they have.

Also why does everyone think the AR-15 is a gun with special powers. It's a semi automatic rifle that fires .223 rounds LOTS of rifles do that aren't classed as an "assault rifle"

I personally wouldn't want an ar-15 to take care of problem animals, a shotgun or something with a little more stopping power would be a lot better.

[Tearloch7]

.223 is good for varmints but useless in any kind of forest cover as it is to light and deflects easily .. I used to use one for coyotes but switched to the .220 Swift caliber ..

[canadiancon]

Like I said, I have no problem with hunting rifles. Like you say yourself, AR-15 is not a hunting rifle. It can be used as such, but I can hammer a nail with my cell phone, doesn't make it a hammer. It's not about the round (although I can see the impression the post re: McChrystal could make), it's about the ability to fire off multiple shots (up to 30, they say) with high frequency. I think it was Tearloch7 that suggested rifles are regulated by the sound they make between shots. If it goes "bang, bang, bang" it's no good, if it goes "bang, clack, clack cling, bang" that's a-okay (sound effects may differ).

So let's review: hunting rifles = good. Semi-auto assault weapons that are misused for hunting by some = not good.

[canadiancon]

.223 is good for varmints but useless in any kind of forest cover as it is to light and deflects easily .. I used to use one for coyotes but switched to the .220 Swift caliber ..

[Tearloch7]

Any bullet will deflect. The "brush buster" gun is a myth, there is no such thing. A small twig will deflect a .338

[Guest Gumballthechewy]

So this thread has turned into a bullet deflection thread?

[Lockout Casualty]

A mini 14 is not an assault rifle but is semi auto and fires .223 rounds and it is a hunting rifle.

You can get .22 that are semi auto and have 25 shot clips that are legal, a .22 will kill you just as fast.

So where does it stop for the anti gun people.

What about a bolt action .300 win mag that would go through 2 people before the bullet stopped, or a car door. Any gun can kill a big group of people.

[canadiancon]

A heavy grain slower moving bullet DOES NOT deflect nearly as much as the zippy ones .. been there, done that ..

[canadiancon]

I wasn't aware that hunting rifles came in semi-auto (can you tell I know nothing about guns?). While that does little to challenge my statement, I should restate it to better reflect reality: weapons that can be fired in quick succession should not be easily available. Bolt action rifles used for hunting should be.

It's clear that any gun can look like a hunting rifle, or even be modified to suit the purpose. Again we return to the sound of the chamber reloading sound (wise man this Tearloch is).

Any gun can be used to kill, but not every gun is easy to conceal, will fire in quick succession, is fast to reload, or holds a large magazine, and is banned (and not used in shootings) in pretty much the rest of the civilized world.

[Lockout Casualty]

Good post. I am a gun owner. Have been since I was around 11 or 12 years old. It was not a toy. I did not pose with it in pictures. I did not show it off to my friends. I own a gun, and I am in favour of banning assault rifles and high capacity magazines. I think that there should be strict laws on trigger locks and other safe storage rules. I think that the process of acquiring a gun should be long and arduous. I am not opposed to government making it more difficult for me to own a gun.

[Tearloch7]

To a point, there was a test done a while ago, I can't find the link but they put a target 2 feet behind some brush and there was a 90% MISS rate regardless of the caliber of bullet. Heavy round nose "brush busters" actually did worse then anything.