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Why does everyone seem to think we need more depth at C?


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#1 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Let's see, we have Sedin, Lapierre, Malhotra, Ebbett, Schroeder, and eventually Kesler. Yet everywhere I read they're saying we need a center. What we need is some size on the bottom six wings and on D, that's all, we do NOT need to make a trade to replace a couple months' worth of Kesler being hurt, that's crazy. Our centers we already have are four solid NHLers and a first-round prospect, that's without Kesler. So get a grip people, we are fine at center.
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#2 Moonshinefe

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

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So which one of those centers besides Sedin do you think can be our bonified 2nd C while Kesler is gone then, if we're so strong up the middle? And "a couple months" in this condensed season could easily be the difference between making the playoffs and not.
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#3 NuxFan09

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

I think our centre depth will be perfect if Schroeder is able to come in and prove he belongs and can produce in the NHL. That way, we'll have our top 1-2 punch at centre of Sedin-Kesler, a young talented 3rd line centre who can anchor the 2nd line when necessary in Schroeder, and two gritty, defensive centres who are great on the PK on the 4th line in Malhotra and Lapierre.

Sedin
Kesler
Schroeder
Lapierre
Malhotra

^ That's very similar to Boston's centre core of Krejci, Bergeron, Seguin, Kelly and Campbell, except that Sedin is much better than Krejci.
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#4 250Integra

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

I'm starting to miss the lock-out already.


I forgot how many kids people on here make idiotic threads :picard:
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#5 Black Mountain

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

I think our centre depth will be perfect if Schroeder is able to come in and prove he belongs and can produce in the NHL. That way, we'll have our top 1-2 punch at centre of Sedin-Kesler, a young talented 3rd line centre who can anchor the 2nd line when necessary in Schroeder, and two gritty, defensive centres who are great on the PK on the 4th line in Malhotra and Lapierre.

Sedin
Kesler
Schroeder
Lapierre
Malhotra

^ That's very similar to Boston's centre core of Krejci, Bergeron, Seguin, Kelly and Campbell, except that Sedin is much better than Krejci.





Schroeder and Seguin are equal then? :picard:
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#6 RAMBUTANS

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

Aside from Henrik, and Kesler (injured), all the centers are only good for the 3rd and 4th line. We definitely need a good 2nd line C while Kes is out.
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#7 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

I'm starting to miss the lock-out already.


I forgot how many kids people on here make idiotic threads :picard:


No, no, you had it right the first time...
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#8 NuxFan09

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

Schroeder and Seguin are equal then? :picard:


Nowhere in my post did I say Schroeder and Seguin are equal. I just did a breakdown of each team's centre depth charts. If you want to get nitpicky and compare each player:

Sedin >> Krejci
Kesler > Bergeron
Schroeder << Seguin
Malhotra = Kelly
Lapierre = Campbell

Oh, I forgot....


..... :picard:

Edited by NuxFan09, 10 January 2013 - 09:19 PM.

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#9 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

There is a reason why everyone thinks we need another center.... we do need another center. Schroeder may or may not be good enough to play in the top six in the NHL and I would rather not have to move Higgy to center
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#10 babych

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

How dare you say that?
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QUOTE
(shiznak@Jun 17 2008, 08:00 PM)
Kesler was lucky to score 20 this year since the injury to Morrison allowed him to do so.

I doubt Kesler would ever break 15 goals in his career again.

#11 NuxFan09

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

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I'm starting to miss the lock-out already.


I forgot how many kids people on here make idiotic threads :picard:


Just because the OP has his own different opinion, doesn't mean he/she is a kid or an idiot. Grow up.
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#12 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

Nowhere in my post did I say Schroeder and Seguin are equal. I just did a breakdown of each team's centre depth charts. If you want to get nitpicky and compare each player:

Sedin >> Krejci
Kesler > Bergeron
Schroeder << Seguin
Malhotra = Kelly
Lapierre = Campbell

Oh, I forgot....


..... :picard:


Kesler is better than Bergeron? This the same Bergeron who in the past few years has won an Olympic gold medal, a Stanley Cup, a Spengler Cup, the Selke Award; posted the best plus-minus in the NHL last season; and produces points far more consistently and in bigger games than Kesler ever has??? And, we're talking about the same Kesler who hasn't shown up for his team since the third round of the playoffs of 2010-2011, and has only made highlight reels since that time for his atrocious diving practices??? Get your head out of your ass. The Canucks' center lineup is nowhere near what the Bruins have.

Edited by PrimeMinisterBure, 10 January 2013 - 09:28 PM.

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#13 bossram

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

Let's see, we have Sedin, Lapierre, Malhotra, Ebbett, Schroeder, and eventually Kesler. Yet everywhere I read they're saying we need a center. What we need is some size on the bottom six wings and on D, that's all, we do NOT need to make a trade to replace a couple months' worth of Kesler being hurt, that's crazy. Our centers we already have are four solid NHLers and a first-round prospect, that's without Kesler. So get a grip people, we are fine at center.


Because without Kesler we have exactly zero players capable of filling in at 2nd line center.

That's why we need better 2nd line depth.
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#14 hudson bay rules

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:36 PM

I still can't understand the timing of the Hodgson trade as it didn't work out in the playoffs and Gillis should've known that Kesler was due for some major rehab.
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#15 RBCanucks

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

Personally I would rather put my faith in Mr. Ebbet (great depth guy) or Lapierre for a month or so than put it into Shroeder. He has only produced 9 goals, 10 assists and is -3 in 30 games with the Wolves while playing top-line minutes. This was his year to shine and show us all that he is ready for the big leagues. Unfortunately, neither he nor Kassian have shown that they are anything more than AHL calibre players since the start of the season with the Wolves.

Not to sound like a butt-hurt broken record but our best prospect is now playing for the Rochester Americans and we have nothing to show for it in terms of a quality return or future depth considerations, especially down the middle. In the last year we went to being one of the deepest teams down the middle to struggling to round out our lineup.

Personally I think we should re-sign Bitz asap, stick him on as 4th line center, move Lappiere to fill in on the 2nd line and play him with Burrows. Obviously this isn't a permanent solution but I think Lappy is ready to be called upon to play a larger role.

Out of the players we have I think our best bet is to see:

Daniel-Henrik-Booth(?)
Raymond(?)-Lapierre-Burrows
Higgins-Malhotra-Hansen
Volpatti-Bitz-Weise

I will note that both Raymond and Booth (who are only effective in the top-6) need to step it up immediately or be shipped out ASAP. Higgins belongs on the 2nd line and that we need a more permanent solution on 3rd line LW. Higgins is too valuable a player to be stuck in a checking role, despite how effective he is, simply because Raymond and Booth have continued to struggle in the top-6 and aren't dependable enough to be put in checking roles.

Edited by rbcanucks87, 10 January 2013 - 10:00 PM.

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#16 Pyrene

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

Kesler is better than Bergeron? This the same Bergeron who in the past few years has won an Olympic gold medal, a Stanley Cup, a Spengler Cup, the Selke Award; posted the best plus-minus in the NHL last season; and produces points far more consistently and in bigger games than Kesler ever has??? And, we're talking about the same Kesler who hasn't shown up for his team since the third round of the playoffs of 2010-2011, and has only made highlight reels since that time for his atrocious diving practices??? Get your head out of your ass. The Canucks' center lineup is nowhere near what the Bruins have.


Though I disagree with Kesler > Bergeron, I disagree with you as well. They are equal. You're talking about the Kesler that hasn't been healthy since the second round of 2011 Nashville. It's the Kesler that singlehandedly carried a team in a whole series of playoffs. The one that posted a 41 goal season, something Bergeron can only hope of doing. The Kesler that won the Selke. You gotta appreciate the love the Canucks fan have for its own players. Disgusting.
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#17 spliced

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

Because just about every other SC contender has a better second line center(not counting Kesler) than the Canucks. And most of them are way better.

Canucks might be able to manage if 1. Kesler isn't out to long 2. He can stay healthy 3. Plays at the top of his game, something he has rarely done, in the playoffs then maybe the Canucks can win the cup. But honestly what are the chances all that happens.
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#18 Understand

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

I still can't understand the timing of the Hodgson trade as it didn't work out in the playoffs and Gillis should've known that Kesler was due for some major rehab.


Gillis second BIGGEST mistake - trading away Cody Hodgson. The first BIG mistake was of course signing Luongo to that fat contract.
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#19 John.Tallhouse

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

I'm starting to miss the lock-out already.


I forgot how many kids people on here make idiotic threads :picard:


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#20 Pears

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

Gillis second BIGGEST mistake - trading away Cody Hodgson. The first BIG mistake was of course signing Luongo to that fat contract.

Although I'm long over the Hodgson trade, just imagine our depth if we managed to trade Luongo for Couturier and kept Cody

Henrik
Kesler
Hodgson
Couturier
Lapierre
Malhotra
Schroeder
Ebbett

That depth...

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 10 January 2013 - 10:08 PM.

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#21 oldnews

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

It's all relative OP. If you look around the NHL, the Canucks without Kesler still match up pretty well - not many teams have Malkin on the second line... So I agree with you to an extent - it's simply that people obsess here over the perceived weak spots - and they are certainly relative, but 2nd line RW and 3rd line C are the areas where people (I think correctly) wouldn't mind seeing upgrades if possible.

I see some of the more ignorant posters have woken from their lockout slumber and are leaving typical smartass one liners - take it with a grain of salt.

Edited by oldnews, 10 January 2013 - 10:06 PM.

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#22 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

Because just about every other SC contender has a better second line center(not counting Kesler) than the Canucks. And most of them are way better.

Canucks might be able to manage if 1. Kesler isn't out to long 2. He can stay healthy 3. Plays at the top of his game, something he has rarely done, in the playoffs then maybe the Canucks can win the cup. But honestly what are the chances all that happens.


The Canucks have about a 0.00% chance of even taking a good run during the playoffs anymore. Look at the facts. Booth is not a top-six forward on any Stanley Cup contending team, and neither are Raymond or Kassian. Kesler hasn't even played in a single scrum during this entire off-season, let alone any real games. And it's a good thing Gillis had the same idea that nearly everyone on this site has--which is that he's never wrong--and got rid of that albatross known as Cody Hodgson. What a nuisance it would be to have that kid around right about now.

Edited by PrimeMinisterBure, 10 January 2013 - 10:04 PM.

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#23 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Although I'm long over the Hodgson trade, just imagine our depth if we managed to trade Luongo for Couturier

Henrik
Kesler
Hodgson
Couturier
Lapierre
Malhotra
Schroeder
Ebbett

That depth...


That will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER take place.
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#24 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:12 PM

I think our centre depth will be perfect if Schroeder is able to come in and prove he belongs and can produce in the NHL. That way, we'll have our top 1-2 punch at centre of Sedin-Kesler, a young talented 3rd line centre who can anchor the 2nd line when necessary in Schroeder, and two gritty, defensive centres who are great on the PK on the 4th line in Malhotra and Lapierre.

Sedin
Kesler
Schroeder
Lapierre
Malhotra

^ That's very similar to Boston's centre core of Krejci, Bergeron, Seguin, Kelly and Campbell, except that Sedin is much better than Krejci.


Exactly, glad someone sees this, I think our center depth will be determined by how Schroeder plays in camp, if he is capable of a top 6 role we are fine, if not we might need to look at picking up a two way center who can play bottom 9 and brings a bit more offense than Lappierre.

Kesler is better than Bergeron? This the same Bergeron who in the past few years has won an Olympic gold medal, a Stanley Cup, a Spengler Cup, the Selke Award; posted the best plus-minus in the NHL last season; and produces points far more consistently and in bigger games than Kesler ever has??? And, we're talking about the same Kesler who hasn't shown up for his team since the third round of the playoffs of 2010-2011, and has only made highlight reels since that time for his atrocious diving practices??? Get your head out of your ass. The Canucks' center lineup is nowhere near what the Bruins have.


Kesler is better than Bergeron, he does have a selke, you say he produces far less offense consistently yet in his last 3 season's he has had multiple 70+ point seasons to his credit and a 40 goal season (something Bergeron hasn't had the 40 goals), and Bergeron has had 64, 57 and 54 points in his last 3 years.

Kesler also played in the Olympics, and was great for team USA, and when Kesler is healthy like Bergeron is he has been every bit as good in big moments, if not better.

Your looking way too much at this past year where Kesler was injured and conviently turning the blinders on to his prior 3 years.

I still can't understand the timing of the Hodgson trade as it didn't work out in the playoffs and Gillis should've known that Kesler was due for some major rehab.


Even if we didn't make the deal at the deadline Cody wouldn't have been here this year, Cody wanted out I don't see how Gillis would have kept him past the offseason.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 10 January 2013 - 10:13 PM.

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#25 Tangerines

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

What about if henrick gets injured and kes is still out. Who is gonna fill in?
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#26 Dasein

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

Nowhere in my post did I say Schroeder and Seguin are equal. I just did a breakdown of each team's centre depth charts. If you want to get nitpicky and compare each player:

Sedin >> Krejci
Kesler > Bergeron
Schroeder << Seguin
Malhotra = Kelly
Lapierre = Campbell

Oh, I forgot....


..... :picard:


First of all, you forgot Rich Peverley, who had 42 points in only 57 games last season.

Second of all, you are misunderstanding the very core meaning of the word "Depth" here.

Yes, Sedin is astronomically better than Krejci. Sure, you could argue that Kesler is better than Bergeron, though I do not think so (Bergeron has literally won everything he possibly can except a Memorial Cup).

What you are saying, and no one can dispute it, is that we have a better quality of the two top 6 centers. Nonetheless, Boston's top 6 of Krejci and Bergeron is one of the better NHL top 6 - and Boston won a Stanley Cup with them.

So both teams have 2 formidable top 6 centers. But that has nothing to do with depth. "Depth" only comes into play when one of the two normal top 6 centers is injured, and you have to replace them from within your organization. This is where "Depth" comes in. So saying that we have a better quality top 6 does not mean we have better depth.

This where Tyler Seguin enters for Boston. He's a legitimate top 6 center playing in the wing that can transition to the middle without Boston losing any scoring. This is where Rich Peverley can also step in - he of the 42 points in 57 games. That's a legitimate top 6 center that can step in. So essentially, Boston could lose both Krejci and Bergeron simultaneously, and not have a problem. Now THAT'S depth.

But just look at where we are without Kesler. We are debating whether we should use Burrows, Raymond, Higgins, Schroeder, Lapierre or Ebbett - all either natural wingers, bottom 6 centers or AHL players - should play in place of Kesler. Does that look like depth to you? Do we have a guy that can at least put up Rich Peverley nubmers to play in the middle? Does it look like we have a legitimate solution to the top 6 problem when we lose a center?

No. We need a center who can perform at Rich Peverley's level at the very least that can come in when either Henrik or Kesler is injured. Now, that could have been Cody Hodgson, but that ship has sailed. Either Jordan Schroeder is ready, or we need to acquire one through trade. That's why Tyler Bozak's name's getting thrown out there - because we need a guy like him.

The only way we have no problem at center is if Jordan Schroeder can step in right away and put up numbers like 42 in 57. Otherwise, we need to get someone like that.

As it stands, we have no depth at the top 6 center position.

Sidenote: Boston is one of the deepest teams at center ice in hockey. Other teams who also have depth are Carolina (Eric & Jordan Staal, Skinner, Jokinen), Philadelphia (Giroux, Briere, Couturier, Schenn), Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Sutter) and Detroit (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula).

Edited by Dasein, 10 January 2013 - 10:26 PM.

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#27 nuck nit

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Everybody doesn't .

Just management and those fans with half a brain.
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#28 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

No. We need a center who can perform at Rich Peverley's level at the very least that can come in when either Henrik or Kesler is injured. Now, that could have been Cody Hodgson, but that ship has sailed. Either Jordan Schroeder is ready, or we need to acquire one through trade. That's why Tyler Bozak's name's getting thrown out there - because we need a guy like him.

The only way we have no problem at center is if Jordan Schroeder can step in right away and put up numbers like 42 in 57. Otherwise, we need to get someone like that.

As it stands, we have no depth at the top 6 center position.


Were not going to get someone who can preform at Rich Pevelery's level, that's somewhere inbetween Burrows or Higgins value, too much to pay for us right now since our only expendable asset that could snatch that is Lu and I don't see anyone like that on any of the team interested that they are willing to give up. Peverley is a much better player than Bozak, much much much better.

and I once again can't see how people can think Hodgson would have been here past the offseason even if we didn't trade him at the deadline.

As it stands we might have depth at the top 6 center position, Schroeder might be ready, and if Higgins can transition to the center ice spot well then those are potentially 2 good options. Which add to our "top 6 center depth". It's really all dependent on that, if those two can play their than we have some guys, if not then I completely agree that we need to acquire someone to fill that spot.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 10 January 2013 - 10:25 PM.

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#29 Dasein

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

Were not going to get someone who can preform at Rich Pevelery's level, that's somewhere inbetween Burrows or Higgins value, too much to pay for us right now. and I once again can't see how people can think Hodgson would have been here past the offseason even if we didn't trade him at the deadline.

As it stands we might have depth at the top 6 center position, Schroeder might be ready, and if Higgins can transition to the center ice spot well then those are potentially 2 good options. Which add to our "top 6 center depth". It's really all dependent on that, if those two can play their than we have some guys, if not we need to acquire someone.


Trade a goaltender, and we could.
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#30 Westcoasting

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

You can never have too much depth at center and i'm sure if the season starts and they haven't found a center to fill in for Kesler, the results will speak for themselves.
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