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Why does everyone seem to think we need more depth at C?


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#61 Sbriggs

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

Kesler is better than Bergeron? This the same Bergeron who in the past few years has won an Olympic gold medal, a Stanley Cup, a Spengler Cup, the Selke Award; posted the best plus-minus in the NHL last season; and produces points far more consistently and in bigger games than Kesler ever has??? And, we're talking about the same Kesler who hasn't shown up for his team since the third round of the playoffs of 2010-2011, and has only made highlight reels since that time for his atrocious diving practices??? Get your head out of your ass. The Canucks' center lineup is nowhere near what the Bruins have.

I agree kesler sucks we should package him with Lou in a trade
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#62 I Got A Boy

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

it's to obtain a backup centre in case of one of them gets injured also we're trying to get C/winger and we need a winger cuz raymond cant do his job
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#63 Dogbyte

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

Nucks depth at center is quantity, not quality. Unfortunately, in a short season, they cannot afford to wait around for (whenever) Kes returns. If they get behind the pack, there may not be time to catch up.

Likely, MG knows exactly when Kes will be available, so will go from there. If it looks short term, he will utilize what he has. If it is long term, I think he will go for a player that can play C and RW.

IMO, the announcement by Kes' agent regarding 'months away' was odd. I would think that the Nucks management would know exactly where Kes' rehab is at the moment. Something a tad fishy here. I am hoping he is not that far off.


Yeah ... the thing everyone is missing is that we shouldn't be trading to fill a temporary hole in order to try to win a shortened lock out season. Yeah, we might not win this year because of it but that's life ... and our stupidty from last year. If Kesler doesn't try to be a hero and our coaches don't let him he'd be healthy right now.

Edited by Dogbyte, 11 January 2013 - 11:46 AM.

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#64 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

Because Sedin is aging, Kesler won't be 100% and we haven't seen Schroeder at an NHL level.
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#65 ronningsback

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

We are not fine at all at Centre...Kesler is, or at least should be, RW and not Centre...he simply doesnt have the playmaking ability to succeed as a Centre. If you accept this premise (and to me its painfully obvious that he would be far more effective along the boards) then we could use a good "play making" Centre. I wouldn't rule out Higgins filling this bill (if Schroeder or Ebbett dont work out). Having said that, I would love to see Management get really creative and give Mason Raymond a shot at Centre - they tried it out once for a few games and he looked pretty good.
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#66 ronningsback

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

Lol bergeron is a playmaker... so of coz hes not going to score 41 goals. Bergeron also makes the player around him better. Something kesler doesnt do. He doesnt even use them.




I couldnt agree more!!
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#67 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

I think our centre depth will be perfect if Schroeder is able to come in and prove he belongs and can produce in the NHL. That way, we'll have our top 1-2 punch at centre of Sedin-Kesler, a young talented 3rd line centre who can anchor the 2nd line when necessary in Schroeder, and two gritty, defensive centres who are great on the PK on the 4th line in Malhotra and Lapierre.

Sedin
Kesler
Schroeder
Lapierre
Malhotra

^ That's very similar to Boston's centre core of Krejci, Bergeron, Seguin, Kelly and Campbell, except that Sedin is much better than Krejci.


Give up on Schroeder, he has been unable to establish himslef as an offensive force even in the AHL - and he is too damn puny to be an effective defensive or physical centre. When you draft a centre of his physical type, you are either getting a skilled centre who can be effective, or you are getting nothing. MG rolled the dice and got snake-eyes. With Kesler hurt, we have at centre, H. Sedin - who may no longer be A-list, and we have a few fourth liners - Malhotra, Lapierre, Ebbett - that is no comparison to Boston at centre.
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#68 etsen3

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

It should be obvious why we need more depth at C. Kesler will be out for a while and in a shortened season it makes a big difference. Currently we have 1 top 6 C and 3 Bottom 6. We don't know how well Manny can play. Sure Schroeder could step in, but are you gonna pin your hopes on a guy who has never played an NHL game?
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#69 hsedin33

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

Second line wingers please. Raymond and Booth dont quite cut it imo.
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#70 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

I don't even like Kesler, by far my least favorite Canuck, but cmon, he owns Bergeron. Bigger, faster, better skater, better hitter, scores more and is better defensively. There's really nothing Berg has on Kes, except maybe health right now.
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#71 JamesB

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

So which one of those centers besides Sedin do you think can be our bonified 2nd C while Kesler is gone then, if we're so strong up the middle? And "a couple months" in this condensed season could easily be the difference between making the playoffs and not.


I agree. Also, Kesler's long run future has to be a question mark given his injury history over the past few years. By now his body is older than his chronological age. Frankly, when he does come back (IF he comes back this season) it might be that the best spot for him is to go back to shutdown duty.

Realistically, it is unlikely that Malhotra can do much as the centre position given his age and his eye injury. Lapierre is a good guy for bottom six duty but he is not a top six centre. And Ebbett and Schroeder are big question marks. Both did well with the Wolves but neither looks like a solid 2nd line centre on a contending team.

2nd line centre is an important position and right now it looks like the Canucks' biggest weakness. In fact, the whole second line is a question mark. Right now I guess the 2nd line wingers are Booth and Raymond -- and they both have something to prove.

Edited by JamesB, 11 January 2013 - 01:59 PM.

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#72 bartelby

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:17 PM

I think you owe it to players to give them a chance to fail before running off trying to get a
replacement.
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#73 NuxFan09

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

Give up on Schroeder, he has been unable to establish himslef as an offensive force even in the AHL - and he is too damn puny to be an effective defensive or physical centre. When you draft a centre of his physical type, you are either getting a skilled centre who can be effective, or you are getting nothing. MG rolled the dice and got snake-eyes. With Kesler hurt, we have at centre, H. Sedin - who may no longer be A-list, and we have a few fourth liners - Malhotra, Lapierre, Ebbett - that is no comparison to Boston at centre.


Henrik Sedin may no longer be A-list? The guy who has led the league in assists for three seasons in a row now? We'll see what he does this season but I'm sorry, you're way out to lunch if you don't still consider Hank one of the elite centres in the NHL.

I should reiterate my thoughts because I think the issue that is cropping up in this discussion is depth vs. top end elite talent. I will agree with you guys that Boston has more depth at centre but I really like our elite talent and I like the way our bottom 6 centres play their role to a T. Could the Canucks use an upgraded 3rd line centre who can conceivably take the reins anchoring the 2nd line for a period of time? Aboslutely, and the hope among Canucks fans, however unlikely it might be, is that Schroeder can come in and prove that all he needed to produce was NHL-level linemates with the skill, IQ and quickness to compliment him. If not, the Canucks maybe need to look elsewhere for one, hence the OP's original point.

Edited by NuxFan09, 11 January 2013 - 02:28 PM.

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#74 Dasein

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:37 PM

I don't even like Kesler, by far my least favorite Canuck, but cmon, he owns Bergeron. Bigger, faster, better skater, better hitter, scores more and is better defensively. There's really nothing Berg has on Kes, except maybe health right now.


And an Olympic Gold, WC Gold, Stanley Cup, Spengler Cup ...
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#75 NuxFan09

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

And an Olympic Gold, WC Gold, Stanley Cup, Spengler Cup ...


This is what I hate. When you're comparing two players, championships and team accomplishments should not come into the discussion. Ovechkin has not won an Olympic gold and Daniel Sedin has. Does that make Daniel a better top LW? Absolutely not.

If we're going to compare Kesler and Bergeron, compare their individual abilities, accomplishments and awards. It's absolute laziness to just point out the Olympic gold and WC gold etc. as a means to determine that Bergeron > Kesler.
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#76 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:18 PM

And an Olympic Gold, WC Gold, Stanley Cup, Spengler Cup ...


Anyone would need to read the Team Canada roster very carefully to even know Bergeron was even there. Kesler was probably the best player in the gold medal game.

Edited by CanucksSayEh, 11 January 2013 - 03:18 PM.

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#77 TheCammer

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

That will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER take place.

Been listening to Taylor Swift in the offseason?
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#78 PrimeMinisterBure

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

Anyone would need to read the Team Canada roster very carefully to even know Bergeron was even there. Kesler was probably the best player in the gold medal game.


AHAHAHA, the comments made by you and several others here are so f*ing ridiculous it's amazing. So, combining your argument and several Jordan Schroeder apologists' arguments posted here, we can safely make the following determination: Patrice Bergeron isn't very good, he's just been surrounded by terrific players, whereas Jordan is very good, he just needs to be surrounded by terrific players to show it. Do you and anyone else making this dumb argument have the ability to see how highly contradictory it is???

By the way, Ryan Miller and Zach Parise were the best players not only of the gold medal game but the entire tournament--and that includes all the teams that competed.

Edited by PrimeMinisterBure, 11 January 2013 - 11:04 PM.

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#79 shazzam

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

umm wasn't Bergeron just used as a faceoff guy in 2010 oly?

nothing against him but he was not a big part of that team
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#80 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:39 PM

Bergeron is Kesler light, Kes 2.0, a poor mans Kesler. He is Randal Cobb to Keslers Percy Harvin.
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#81 Moonshinefe

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

Bergeron is Kesler light, Kes 2.0, a poor mans Kesler. He is Randal Cobb to Keslers Percy Harvin.


You guys are crazy.. a "poor man's Kesler"? Bergeron won the Selke too you know, he's not a poor man's anything. Kesler and Bergeron are very comparable players. Kesler is maybe slightly better if he's on his game and fully healthy, but that doesn't seem to happen a lot these days.

Bergeron is a little more of a playmaker than Kesler, and Bergeron is imo better on defence. That isn't to say Kesler isn't excellent on defence as well. Kesler is a better scorer.

But yeah, as far as 'how good they are' overall, they're awfully close. I don't know why everyone is selling Bergeron short on these forums, probably fan bias or something.

Edited by Moonshinefe, 12 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.

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#82 JasetheCanuck

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:45 PM

Ebbett of course could step in as second line centre, but he's more suited for 3rd or 4th. Schroeder is unproven he's worth a shot, but like most rookies he'll need time to settle in. Lappy and Malhotra are also bottom 6 forwards. IThe Nucks definitely need a center right now
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#83 surtur

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

What about if henrick gets injured and kes is still out. Who is gonna fill in?

Can't believe you would even..
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#84 DCR

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:52 PM

Andrew Ebbett was on pace for 54 points as a 2C with the Ducks in 08-09, a year in which they made it to the second round. 32 points in 48 games is nothing to sneeze at.

He's no Kesler, but he's a natural center and has demonstrated that he can play 2C at the NHL level. There certainly are better options, but as long as they have Ebbett under contract they have someone available who they know can fill the role. This gives them the freedom to explore other options, and that's a good thing.
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#85 Moonshinefe

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

Andrew Ebbett was on pace for 54 points as a 2C with the Ducks in 08-09, a year in which they made it to the second round. 32 points in 48 games is nothing to sneeze at.

He's no Kesler, but he's a natural center and has demonstrated that he can play 2C at the NHL level. There certainly are better options, but as long as they have Ebbett under contract they have someone available who they know can fill the role. This gives them the freedom to explore other options, and that's a good thing.


I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them using Ebbett as the 2C, with such a condensed season we can't afford a lot of 'experiments'. But you're right in that he actually has some offensive upside from what I've seen, and has put up some good numbers in the NHL before. He's also in his prime right now... so I'm definitely glad he's there as an option, whatever we decide.
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#86 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

I'm willing to try out Schroeder and assess him and the other options before jumping the gun.

I hope Schroeder can surprise and be ready.

It just irks me to see that some people have a grand delusion that we have no problem right now with our depth at center by comparing to teams like Boston who are one of the deepest in the NHL. We have a solid group of 4 centers, yes. But we do not have any depth at the top 6.


Yeah I agree with this, we have to see what we have before we jump the gun, Schroeder could jump out and surprise people, we do lack offensive centers after Kesler (Unless JS proves he is ready) so it would be nice to add a two-way center for depth like Bozak, but for the 3rd and 4th lines I don't think we have an issue, just issue's offensively.

Schroeder might be ready for what? Second line duties on the President's Trophy winners? A raw rookie with zero games of NHL experience? I see.Well,at least the naked truth is coming ever closer than twenty pages of nonsense and hype from fan boys.

Take away Higgins and you have to fill his spot and he is not going to be a 2c,anyways.

Kesler is not showing signs he is coming back any time soon and nobody knows how effective he will be or how long it will take him to round into shape even if or when he comes back.

I expect Luongo to be traded for a prime time center ice man along with a right handed d man.


Yeah I guess giving a rookie a shot there is a terrible idea, we shouldn't have done it last year either, Giving Cody the shot on the 2nd line last year on the president's trophy winners was a terrible move did nothing, didn't jump out and play well earning his role on the team, should have given Ebbett that spot instead. Blah blah blah.
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#87 nuck nit

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

More spectacular insight from the Schroe fan club president,Smasshian Kassian,with help from his VP, Dasein and Confused.

Just about to get your act placed where it belongs.

I have a hint for you: It is not the second line.
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#88 fagin

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

Trade a goaltender, and we could.

I thought we had between 2-3 million for such a trade without wasting one of our goaltenders.
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#89 LeanBeef

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

^ That's very similar to Boston's centre core of Krejci, Bergeron, Seguin, Kelly and Campbell, except that Sedin is much better than Krejci.

Peverley can also play centre... Imagine how lucky they would be if Savard returned.
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#90 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

More spectacular insight from the Schroe fan club president,Smasshian Kassian,with help from his VP, Dasein and Confused.

Just about to get your act placed where it belongs.

I have a hint for you: It is not the second line.


:lol:

Nice one, so do you agree that giving Cody the shot last year over Ebbett was a mistake then aswell? Exact same situation here.
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