DownUndaCanuck Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Now before anyone rants on me for being a "Luongo Lover" or "Hodgson Fanboy" hear me out and try to think of this objectively as possible. Last season we had 3 very viable centers - Henrik, Kesler and Hodgson. Henrik, the veteran, is one of the league's best forwards and our captain and has proven himself consistently over the last odd decade. Kesler, not quite as old as Henrik but as big a leader and part of this team as he. Then there's Hodgson, the high draft pick and superstar in the making. He had done it all up to this point - performed exceptionally at big tournaments, put up stellar numbers in junior leagues and was basically on-par with Eberle in terms of development. Then this kid scores at a 20 goal, 40 point pace in his first season with the Canucks to prove himself. However, we trade Hodgson and keep Henrik and Kesler. Now my question is, why are we trading Luongo but keeping Schneider? These goalies are in a very similar if not exact same predicament. We had Luongo (our former captain), one of the best goalies in the world and a veteran, and then Schneider - a guy who like Hodgson had played well in minor leagues. Schneider then plays in the NHL in limited game time and produces great numbers, similar to how Hodgson did. Nothing spectacular, he only played around 30 games, but his NHL success in limited time was very comparable to Hodgson's success in limited minutes. My response to "oh but Luongo crapped the bed in the playoffs and looked shaky all year" is simple - how great was Kesler when it mattered most? 1 goal in his final 18 games of the season. That is on most other teams grounds for a swap, just brutal and a big reason we didn't beat Los Angeles. Kesler had a terrible season last year, Hodgson had a great one yet we didn't trade Kesler and keep Hodgson in the #2 center spot. Why not? Because Kesler won a Selke? Because Kesler had 2 good 70-point seasons? Hodgson was more than capable of playing a #2 center spot role and would eventually take our #1 spot without a doubt. Now look back at Luongo. Luongo was also a superstar goalie and had a couple of stellar seasons. Yet we want to trade him, why? If you want to keep Henrik and Kesler over Hodgson, you should want to have Luongo in net over Schneider. It is an identical situation yet everyone's minds have been warped by the media and how our players have been portrayed - Kesler the superhero who plays with emotion and scores in big games and Luongo as the fragile goalie whose burned out. On the contrary, Kesler is the one coming off 3 major surgeries (the definition of fragile and burned out if you ask me) and Luongo is the one who single-handedly took this franchise to Game 7 and played big in the Gold Medal Game. So simply, with all of that in mind, why Schneider over Luongo when we stuck with Kesler and Henrik over Hodgson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I can see this one locked quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 8 years younger, stronger mentally, never faultered yet. Luongos not the same superstar goalie he was when he was first here, and he is not going to get any younger or better, unlike Schneider. Lu hasn't been the same since he injured his groin. Schneids also played better in the playoffs last year, so he proved himself there imo, this is only a 48 game season, so it's the perfect situation for Schneider. If Hodgson was half a step faster, I think we probably would of kept him, but we don't have the time to let Hodgson figure out how to play using his strengths. Schneiders also never complained about being stuck behind Luongo for years. Keslers been injured and can now finally heal up hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 8 years younger, stronger mentally, never faultered yet. Luongos not the same superstar goalie he was when he was first here, and he is not going to get any younger or better, unlike Schneider. Lu hasn't been the same since he injured his groin. Schneids also played better in the playoffs last year, so he proved himself there imo, this is only a 48 game season, so it's the perfect situation for Schneider. If Hodgson was half a step faster, I think we probably would of kept him, but we don't have the time to let Hodgson figure out how to play using his strengths. Schneiders also never complained about being stuck behind Luongo for years. Keslers been injured and can now finally heal up hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Marchand Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The real difference is that Schneider didn't get his agent or parents to whine to management about getting more ice time instead of waiting for his chance to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Saying Hodgson is a superstar in the making is a bit much, if you assess his game from an objective point of view there are holes that might prevent him from being that, also he isn't on pace with eberle. The difference is Schneider is also one of the best goalies in the world, he is probably just as good as Lu, if Hodgson had scored 60 points or 70 points or something then I am sure we would have kept him too, Hodgson didn't do as much before his trade, as Schneider has before this pending Lu trade. Edit: It is also premature to say that Kesler isn't the same player, we don't know yet he was injured, we have to wait till he is healthy and see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-52 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noheart Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Now before anyone rants on me for being a "Luongo Lover" or "Hodgson Fanboy" hear me out and try to think of this objectively as possible. Last season we had 3 very viable centers - Henrik, Kesler and Hodgson. Henrik, the veteran, is one of the league's best forwards and our captain and has proven himself consistently over the last odd decade. Kesler, not quite as old as Henrik but as big a leader and part of this team as he. Then there's Hodgson, the high draft pick and superstar in the making. He had done it all up to this point - performed exceptionally at big tournaments, put up stellar numbers in junior leagues and was basically on-par with Eberle in terms of development. Then this kid scores at a 20 goal, 40 point pace in his first season with the Canucks to prove himself. However, we trade Hodgson and keep Henrik and Kesler. Now my question is, why are we trading Luongo but keeping Schneider? These goalies are in a very similar if not exact same predicament. We had Luongo (our former captain), one of the best goalies in the world and a veteran, and then Schneider - a guy who like Hodgson had played well in minor leagues. Schneider then plays in the NHL in limited game time and produces great numbers, similar to how Hodgson did. Nothing spectacular, he only played around 30 games, but his NHL success in limited time was very comparable to Hodgson's success in limited minutes. My response to "oh but Luongo crapped the bed in the playoffs and looked shaky all year" is simple - how great was Kesler when it mattered most? 1 goal in his final 18 games of the season. That is on most other teams grounds for a swap, just brutal and a big reason we didn't beat Los Angeles. Kesler had a terrible season last year, Hodgson had a great one yet we didn't trade Kesler and keep Hodgson in the #2 center spot. Why not? Because Kesler won a Selke? Because Kesler had 2 good 70-point seasons? Hodgson was more than capable of playing a #2 center spot role and would eventually take our #1 spot without a doubt. Now look back at Luongo. Luongo was also a superstar goalie and had a couple of stellar seasons. Yet we want to trade him, why? If you want to keep Henrik and Kesler over Hodgson, you should want to have Luongo in net over Schneider. It is an identical situation yet everyone's minds have been warped by the media and how our players have been portrayed - Kesler the superhero who plays with emotion and scores in big games and Luongo as the fragile goalie whose burned out. On the contrary, Kesler is the one coming off 3 major surgeries (the definition of fragile and burned out if you ask me) and Luongo is the one who single-handedly took this franchise to Game 7 and played big in the Gold Medal Game. So simply, with all of that in mind, why Schneider over Luongo when we stuck with Kesler and Henrik over Hodgson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onions Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Firstly, goalies and centers play different roles. it's like comparing apples an oranges. Secondly, how a player preforms after an injury is all based on the player. you can't say that one player will heal up and the other won't. Thirdly, single handedly took us to game 7? really? so the rest of the team can retire and Luo will get us to game 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The exact same can be said for Kesler. Hodgson was younger than Kesler, who's not the same Selke-superstar he once was. Kesler hasn't been the same since hip surgery let alone wrist and shoulder surgery. MG had been working on our center situation for a long time leading up to the trade deadline, he said it himself. He could have easily decided to try and trade Kesler instead of Hodgson to keep him happy. Yes Kesler's been injured but he's not going to heal up, if he can't return to form following hip surgery he's not going to return to form after two surgeries on the same arm. Luongo on the otherhand just tweaked a groin, much easier to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheels22 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Kesler was still injured last year genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurf47 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The exact same can be said for Kesler. Hodgson was younger than Kesler, who's not the same Selke-superstar he once was. Kesler hasn't been the same since hip surgery let alone wrist and shoulder surgery. MG had been working on our center situation for a long time leading up to the trade deadline, he said it himself. He could have easily decided to try and trade Kesler instead of Hodgson to keep him happy. Yes Kesler's been injured but he's not going to heal up, if he can't return to form following hip surgery he's not going to return to form after two surgeries on the same arm. Luongo on the otherhand just tweaked a groin, much easier to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Saying Hodgson is a superstar in the making is a bit much, if you assess his game from an objective point of view there are holes that might prevent him from being that, also he isn't on pace with eberle. The difference is Schneider is also one of the best goalies in the world, he is probably just as good as Lu, if Hodgson had scored 60 points or 70 points or something then I am sure we would have kept him too, Hodgson didn't do as much before his trade, as Schneider has before this pending Lu trade. Edit: It is also premature to say that Kesler isn't the same player, we don't know yet he was injured, we have to wait till he is healthy and see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 There are similarities between the Hodgson trade and the pending Luogno trade. However, the comparison is not quite equal. I'm way more comfortable with Schneider as the starter than Hodgson as a 2nd line centre. Mainly because I believe that Schneider is more ready for his role than Hodgson. It would've been another season or two minimum before Hodgson could've possibly grabbed a top 2 centre roll here and it appeared he wasn't willing to wait that long, hence the trade. Late last year Schneider made it apparent he was ready for a number 1 roll, hence making Luongo expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 There is no comparison between a player and a goaltender. You are comparing apples and oranges. Schneider has , at this point in time, more upside than Lou. He is far better technically, better positionally, adjusts quicker and much better lateral movement. If Lou were to revert back to how Melanson had him playing, it would be a more difficult decision but last year he returned to the Allaire camp. He is now, not the star goalie he was, and a groin never gets back to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 There are similarities between the Hodgson trade and the pending Luogno trade. However, the comparison is not quite equal. I'm way more comfortable with Schneider as the starter than Hodgson as a 2nd line centre. Mainly because I believe that Schneider is more ready for his role than Hodgson. It would've been another season or two minimum before Hodgson could've possibly grabbed a top 2 centre roll here and it appeared he wasn't willing to wait that long, hence the trade. Late last year Schneider made it apparent he was ready for a number 1 roll, hence making Luongo expendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hodgson was and still is on pace to become a star in the league. Every player has "holes in their game", but just look at his body of work already. He won gold at the world juniors twice and was the best player there, outshining even Eberle over there. He tore up the OHL and still holds a bunch of Brampton franchise records. Then he plays at 0.5 points per game in the NHL at a 20 goal pace in his rookie season. Now in the AHL he's playing at over a point-per-game and probably would be scoring at the high pace Eberle is if he wasn't injured and had the 3 other best players in the league with him. There is no way a rookie is going to score 60 or 70 points playing on a third line. Instead Hodgson was scoring at a 20 goal and 40 point pace which is miraculous for any 3rd liner in the league let alone a rookie. 60-70 points is unreachable, Kesler didn't even hit that with 20 minutes a game, whereas 20 goals from a 3rd liner is the benchmark and he reached that perfectly. He essentially played better than Kesler in his limited minutes all season long, as Kesler was obviously struggling that year following hip surgery, there's no denying that. It is also definately not premature to say Kesler is a different player. He's already changed completely following his labrum surgery - broken down from the two-time 70 point player and 40 goal scorer to what we all saw last season. He was IMO the worst Canuck in the last 20 games of the season, injured or not, but all season long he hasn't ever looked to be the same dominant player he was in the 2011 playoffs. There's no questioning it - the physical game Kesler plays is taking its toll on him, he is not the same player he once was and you'd be blind not to see that. Now he's had two surgeries on the same arm so who knows how much more that will affect him, but the hip surgery has already done enough to slow him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Offence wins games defense wins championships Cliche I know, but true look at the last couple stanley cup winners. All had very solid D and held teams to low scoring with D and goal tending. Kesler is better on D than hodgson and probably always will be, since we are not trying to win a Stanley cup in 6 years when hodgson is in his prime we traded him for someone who can fill a role and be good defensively. We do need to score goals to win games and stay healthy, but we can do that with a little luck. There's no magic combination that guarantees a cup. Van is simply putting themselves in the best possible position to succeed based upon their knowledge of the league and what it takes to win, which is extensive. Say all you want about the trades that have happened and will happen. We all know that if the canucks trade Lu and win a cup this year we will call Gillis a genius and if they keep him and win a cup it's exactly the same. simply the GM is suppopsed to give the team the best chance they can to win fitting under the cap and using available players. We lacked some scoring in the playoffs, and we also lacked healthy bodies both of the past years. When we made our run we had a dominant offense when everyone was healthy and as soon as we get to the finals and there's suspensions and injuries we start not producing. Thanks to NHL officiating we were denied our first cup. Henrik said it best: "This is the only league in the world where the rules change as the season goes along" paraphrasing that. Hard for a GM to control the officials. Perfect example is how an 8 seed who had a terrible year can squeak into the playoffs and absolutely dominate teams that had their number almost every game during the regular season... Tell me you don't think that is ridiculous?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmpunk Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Shut the hell up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmpunk Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I think after being off for a while, getting away from the game and all the talk about him in this town, Luongo is going to be a rejuiced and motivated player and will have some good years going foward. Like Lundqvist and Thomas did after being in the league for a while now and in their later years, Luongo will be steller wherever. Luongo is a superstar goalie that when we got him, every team wanted him and he is still is considered a top elite goalie, he ain't no few season good washed up goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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