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Lance Armstrong the Fraud


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#31 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Please name some modern people who fall under that. Nobody is a saint nowadays, too much info is available


Trevor Linden, Dr. Satif Mann, Pope John Paul, me .. thats 4 off the top of my head .. :)
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#32 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

I was pointing out that the American Dream is different for everyone. Just because many American athletes adopt the mentality does not mean that the view is exclusive to them


Perhaps I should not have used the generic term "American Dream" .. "win at any cost" is too prevalent in our society for my liking
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#33 canucklax

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:13 PM

Trevor Linden, Dr. Satif Mann, Pope John Paul, me .. thats 4 off the top of my head .. :)


Wait, the leader of the organization responsible for covering up hundreds if not thousands of molestations is pure to you?
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#34 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

Wait, the leader of the organization responsible for covering up hundreds if not thousands of molestations is pure to you?


As a former altar boy, I always considered John Paul to be "honorable" .. not sure what part he played in any cover-up but I am sure you have details?
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#35 canucklax

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

Perhaps I should not have used the generic term "American Dream" .. "win at any cost" is too prevalent in our society for my liking


I just hope you understand there is a difference
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#36 mcgillnuck

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

Wow your attitude is horrible. I'd try to point out what other users have said about the hundreds of millions he has raised for cancer research, but you only want to crusify him for doing what was done by every other cyclist in the era, and then trying to deny it. Of course he wanted to hide what he may have done(still no positive tests) but to judge him solely on that is asinine. Doping or no, he completed a task many of could never in riding the Tour, even after fighting cancer, and then raised so much for a health issue that affects everyone in the world. So please leave your extremely pessimistic view at the door and appreciate the good he's done for the world


Lance Armstrong has a net worth of $125 million. His foundation has done as much to raise his own brand, and therefore his wealth, as it has for actual charity.

Tell you what. When Lance Armstrong donates even $100 million of his own money, which was earned under false pretenses, to his foundation, then maybe I'll overlook the cheating and the lying.
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#37 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

I just hope you understand there is a difference


Would it really make a great deal of difference in your life if I know the difference? .. :rolleyes:
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#38 flapjacks

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

Do his good deeds outweigh his bad deeds? Maybe. I think the biggest problem that people have with his 10+ years of lying is that the foundation of the LiveStrong Foundation (previously Lance Armstrong Foundation) was built on his cycling victories. This was a man who came back from cancer and proceeded to win 7 Tour de France titles in his career, albeitly through cheating as we have now found out. There's no denying though the good he's done in raising awareness and money for cancer research through his foundation. I think they have raised over half a billion dollars since it was founded. But it still comes down to the fact that people, maybe particularly for people who have unfortunately been inflicted with various types of cancer, looked up to Lance for inspiration. There must be tons of people who are cancer patients who look up to Lance as a hero. A man who won his battle with cancer and went farther even as to compete in those championships and win those titles. I'm sure for those people, they are probably the most disappointed ones today.

I remember reading his autobiographical book "It's Not About the Bike" a long time ago and felt really inspired by his story. I wasn't able to relate directly to his struggles, but to read about them and how he eventually conquered them to win championship titles was quite inspiring to say the least. So following the news today of how he did indeed use PED's during his career, I have to say for me, I am disappointed, but can appreciate what he's done for cancer research. It's not like he's the first athlete to dope either I guess. I just hope that despite all this, people can still support the foundation and stuff.
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#39 canucklax

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

As a former altar boy, I always considered John Paul to be "honorable" .. not sure what part he played in any cover-up but I am sure you have details?

Not a big fan of using wikipedia for arguments, but http://en.wikipedia....sex_abuse_cases
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#40 canucklax

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

Would it really make a great deal of difference in your life if I know the difference? .. :rolleyes:


Well if I just stand by while people insult my country out of ignorance, I'm not helping the issue
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#41 debluvscanucks

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:22 PM

Lance Armstrong used steroids? The poor second place finisher and all the rest of the field who were all also using steroids!
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#42 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

Lance Armstrong used steroids? The poor second place finisher and all the rest of the field who were all also using steroids!


A pox on all their houses ..
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#43 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

Well if I just stand by while people insult my country out of ignorance, I'm not helping the issue


I have lived and worked in "your" country .. so I am not making rash statements in ignorance, and I think you are in some denial .. but I get where you are coming from .. "my country, right or wrong"
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#44 canucklax

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

I have lived and worked in "your" country .. so I am not making rash statements in ignorance, and I think you are in some denial .. but I get where you are coming from .. "my country, right or wrong"

Its not perfect, but its not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, especially in the last few weeks
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#45 pimpcurtly

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

Just glad he finally admitted it. I think we can all agree that he should have done this years ago. Some people will hate him forever, understandably. I am willing to move on. He had everything stripped and his legacy as a cyclist is now tarnished forever...that's good enough for me.
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#46 Harbinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

The guy cheated and chastised all the other people who said he cheated. He wrote books based on a lie, He tried to be a hero to people based on a lie, He's a douche.

How long before we find out he didn't even have cancer and it was nothing more than a ploy to garner sympathy.

Edited by Harbinger, 14 January 2013 - 10:36 PM.

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#47 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

Its not perfect, but its not nearly as bad as many make it out to be, especially in the last few weeks


I know .. there are places and people in your country who are very dear to me .. I do believe the saner American's have had enough and are trying to "take their country back" from the fringes ..

Edit: Sorry to sidetrack topic ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 14 January 2013 - 10:38 PM.

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#48 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

The guy cheated and chastised all the other people who said he cheated. He wrote books based on a lie, He tried to be a hero to people based on a lie, He's a douche.

How long before we find out he didn't even have cancer and it was nothing more than a ploy to garner sympathy.


Well, he's been proven to be a masterful liar over a very long period of time, anything is possible, right?

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 14 January 2013 - 10:41 PM.

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#49 Harbinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:41 PM

Well, he's been proven to be a masterful liar over a very long period of time, anything is possible, right?


Would it surprise anyone at this point?
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#50 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

Would it surprise anyone at this point?


Not I .. B)
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#51 Bitter Melon

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:45 PM

Truly honourable and laudable people do not have to cheat and/or do fraudulent things order to accomplish good things in the world.


You're right, the hundreds of millions he raised for cancer research and all the charity work he did is all for naught because he took PEDs in a sport where practically everyone takes PEDs. What a horrible, horrible man.

Edited by CAPSLOCK, 14 January 2013 - 10:49 PM.

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#52 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

You're right, the hundreds of millions he donated to cancer research and all the charity work he did is all for naught because he took PEDs in a sport where practically everyone takes PEDs. What a horrible, horrible man.


He made himself rich in the process .. you consider him "honorable" do you? .. you have a "modern" value system then ..

Edit: And HE did not donate hundreds of millions ..

Edited by Tearloch7, 14 January 2013 - 10:48 PM.

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#53 Mr. Ambien

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:48 PM

You're right, the hundreds of millions he donated to cancer research and all the charity work he did is all for naught because he took PEDs in a sport where practically everyone takes PEDs. What a horrible, horrible man.

I've never lied, cheated, nor stolen in my entire life. I am perfect. ^_^

Burn in hell Lance!

Edited by zaibatsu, 14 January 2013 - 10:50 PM.

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#54 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

I've never lied, cheated, nor stolen in my entire life. I am perfect. ^_^


A "perfect" what? ..
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#55 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:50 PM

Would it surprise anyone at this point?


Hell, no.



He made himself rich in the process .. you consider him "honorable" do you? .. you have a "modern" value system then ..

Edit: And HE did not donate hundreds of millions ..


You've said it best, no need to repeat the obvious now that it's been put so eloquently.



A "perfect" what? ..


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Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 14 January 2013 - 10:52 PM.

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#56 thepedestrian

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:51 PM

He made himself rich in the process .. you consider him "honorable" do you? .. you have a "modern" value system then ..

Edit: And HE did not donate hundreds of millions ..


He competed on a level playing field. People need to remember that. Its not like he cheated to win. Everyone had the same advantage.
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#57 Bitter Melon

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:52 PM

He made himself rich in the process .. you consider him "honorable" do you? .. you have a "modern" value system then ..

Edit: And HE did not donate hundreds of millions ..


I don't care. There are thousands of big business people who make themselves rich off the suffering of others but no one is losing their minds over that.

The vast majority of people out there would step over your slowly cooling corpse for a better parking spot, yet they're vilifying a man whose done a great deal more good than they ever will. I don't agree with what he did, I just find the reaction amusing.
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#58 Harbinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:55 PM

This story reminds me of that famous movie about the war Tropic Thunder. Nick Nolte "I just know the sound it makes when it kills a man" Danny McBride" I just know the sound it makes when it Lies"
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#59 Tearloch7

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:56 PM

I don't care. There are thousands of big business people who make themselves rich off the suffering of others but no one is losing their minds over that.

The vast majority of people out there would step over your slowly cooling corpse for a better parking spot, yet they're vilifying a man whose done a great deal more good than they ever will. I don't agree with what he did, I just find the reaction amusing.


If he had come clean without trying to vilify others, and lie repeatedly, while making himself rich in the process, I could buy your position .. I just have such a hard time with hypocritical self-serving "role models" .. sort of like when the anti-gay, GOP politician gets caught soliciting raw, gay sex in an airport washroom .. that kind of hypocrisy ..
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#60 Harbinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:02 PM

He competed on a level playing field. People need to remember that. Its not like he cheated to win. Everyone had the same advantage.



No he didn't. It was absolutely not a level playing field. A level playing field would have had no one taking PEDS. The fact that many of them cheat doesn't absolve anyone of anything. Nor does it define a level playing field. Has everyone who ever raced in those 7 years been busted for steroids. I don't think so. Many of them were legit. They didn't stand a chance against the CHEATERS. But you can go ahead and pretend it was a level playing field. How many people didn't get a chance to compete because of the cheaters? How many millions were lost by the actual honest riders?
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