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Lance Armstrong the Fraud


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#181 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

how many of you donated to his charity?


I never liked him even when everyone thought he was telling the truth...but my cousins bought Livestrong bracelets, t-shirts...his autograph off of Ebay...when they found out he was lying it hit them as hard as it would a 5 year old learning Santa Claus isn't real.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#182 Zamboni_14

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

I never liked him even when everyone thought he was telling the truth...but my cousins bought Livestrong bracelets, t-shirts...his autograph off of Ebay...when they found out he was lying it hit them as hard as it would a 5 year old learning Santa Claus isn't real.


sorry to sound heartless, but maybe that's the price of learning a lesson to not buy into celebrities so much.
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#183 Monty

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

how many of you donated to his charity?


Not me. I don't donate to cancer research.
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#184 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

sorry to sound heartless, but maybe that's the price of learning a lesson to not buy into celebrities so much.


Lol it wasn't my money...I don't give a damn...lol I told them well let's see so far that's Alex Rodriguez and now Lance Armstrong that have disappointed you...that's twice now you've been duped by "celebrities". If it were me, there wouldn't be a third. lol.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#185 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:39 AM

how many of you donated to his charity?


Not me, not a dime. My volunteer time and my dollars go to 'local' cancer charities here in Canada, thanks.*


(* Except when I'm paddling in regattas overseas, that is. Then we support those 'locals', as well.)

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 29 January 2013 - 11:54 AM.

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#186 Bigturk8

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

No one is making the claim that the world is a worse place because he is in it...where are you getting this from? And "their victories would have been just as tarnished"...you know this how? That's right you don't...his cheating is the issue here, not the fact that he won a lot or anyone is trying to make an example of him. Other cyclists were caught doping in between the time Lance started lying his ass off and the time he decided to come clean...while there are impure elements in cycling, I'd bet that they are in the minority.


You're right, I can't know this for sure; However, I'm close to someone who is deep in the athletic community, sports such as Ultramarathon Running, Adventure Racing and Competative Cycling. She know's people that used to and still do compete on a the level of the Tour de France. Seeing as how this person is my Mother, I trust her and respect her cander. I understand if you don't because you don't know either of us.

The information that she has recieved and has passed on to me is that that cycling is, or atleast was, incredibly tainted. If anyone wanted a chance to compete, they had to take steroids of some form. I'm not defending his lying by any means, although I truly believe that anyone in contention at the time was guilty of the same crime, and therefor, their victorieswould have been tarnished, as I said before. They were not investigated futher though, because they didn't win, and nobody cares. The only reason that cycling is cleaning up now, is because this has been so high profile, and that is why I believe he is being made an example of.
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#16 is skeptical about the validity of your post...

#187 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

Miguel Indurain won 5 consecutive Tour de France races. He is a member of the Cycling Hall of Fame and never once tested positive for anything resembling PEDs. He won a lot too, but the difference is Indurain didn't make a spectacle of himself. If Lance had not been so flamboyant and defiant he might not have gotten caught at all. I mentioned Indurain because he is an example of a clean cyclist who was successful. Lance Armstrong wasn't "made an example of"...he made his own bed...and now he has to lie in it. Greg LeMond is another example of a cyclist with a clean record, who is a revered member of the professional cycling community who never made a big deal out of himself when he was riding.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#188 Wetcoaster

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

Not me, not a dime. My volunteer time and my dollars go to 'local' cancer charities here in Canada, thanks.

That is my position as well - and being a cancer survivor hits home along with losing family members including my paternal grandfather, mother, and several uncles (one at 24 years old) and aunts to the disease and one of my law partners at 46 to Non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

The "celebrities" that have moved me to donate - Terry Fox (cancer research) and Rick Hansen ( spinal cord research).
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#189 Aladeen

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:06 PM

Its time for Lance to take his Money and go live in an obscure country where he won't be recognized easily and live out his days away from anything that resembles a spotlight.

Good lessons for all those who place celebrities onto pedestels, believing that their accomplishments somehow make them better people.

I personally have had zero interest in competative cycling and I actually believe that there should be two of every sport (One where roids etc are legal and another where none is) I know this is not realistic but hey if some people want to destroy their bodies for profit and other's entertainment they should be allowed to do so somewhere.
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#190 Bigturk8

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

Miguel Indurain won 5 consecutive Tour de France races. He is a member of the Cycling Hall of Fame and never once tested positive for anything resembling PEDs. He won a lot too, but the difference is Indurain didn't make a spectacle of himself. If Lance had not been so flamboyant and defiant he might not have gotten caught at all. I mentioned Indurain because he is an example of a clean cyclist who was successful. Lance Armstrong wasn't "made an example of"...he made his own bed...and now he has to lie in it. Greg LeMond is another example of a cyclist with a clean record, who is a revered member of the professional cycling community who never made a big deal out of himself when he was riding.


I agree that it's his flamboyancy that got him caught; but is that not the same reason why he was such a high profile. Lance Armstrong brought competative cycling to a world stage. Before his over the top tale, the following for cycling was made up mostly of enthusiasts. Now everyone and their dog knows about Lance and the Tour. As successfull as those other athletes are, they were never as famous as Lance.

I'm not saying that they're wrong to persecute him in the way they are. I'm saying that all of this hype is due to his fame, which was majorly created by his attitude and a mountain of lies. Is it such a strech then, to believe that International Cycling Organizations are using this as an opportunity to crack down on doping? If they are, would that not be considered being "made an example of"? Not that it's a bad thing, but it seems to fit the bill for me.
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#191 Shift-4

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

I agree that it's his flamboyancy that got him caught; but is that not the same reason why he was such a high profile. Lance Armstrong brought competative cycling to a world stage. Before his over the top tale, the following for cycling was made up mostly of enthusiasts. Now everyone and their dog knows about Lance and the Tour. As successfull as those other athletes are, they were never as famous as Lance.

I'm not saying that they're wrong to persecute him in the way they are. I'm saying that all of this hype is due to his fame, which was majorly created by his attitude and a mountain of lies. Is it such a strech then, to believe that International Cycling Organizations are using this as an opportunity to crack down on doping? If they are, would that not be considered being "made an example of"? Not that it's a bad thing, but it seems to fit the bill for me.


He only brought attention to it because he was an American who won.

I am pretty sure cycling had already been a big deal in Europe.

Edit: He brought it to the American stage, not the world stage.

Edited by Shift-4, 29 January 2013 - 12:30 PM.

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#192 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

I agree that it's his flamboyancy that got him caught; but is that not the same reason why he was such a high profile. Lance Armstrong brought competative cycling to a world stage. Before his over the top tale, the following for cycling was made up mostly of enthusiasts. Now everyone and their dog knows about Lance and the Tour. As successfull as those other athletes are, they were never as famous as Lance.

I'm not saying that they're wrong to persecute him in the way they are. I'm saying that all of this hype is due to his fame, which was majorly created by his attitude and a mountain of lies. Is it such a strech then, to believe that International Cycling Organizations are using this as an opportunity to crack down on doping? If they are, would that not be considered being "made an example of"? Not that it's a bad thing, but it seems to fit the bill for me.


Fame can turn to infamy pretty quickly. Lance Armstrong is learning this the hard way. LeMond was an American who won, albeit not as consistently as Lance, Indurain in my opinion is the greatest cyclist of all time. Not to mention the fact his name is great for puns.: Gene Kelly musical about a Spanish Tour de France champion - Singin' Indurain. ;)
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#193 Bigturk8

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

He only brought attention to it because he was an American who won.

I am pretty sure cycling had already been a big deal in Europe.

Edit: He brought it to the American stage, not the world stage.

Fair enough.
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#194 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

Phelps's infamous "bong photo" nearly did him in already.

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People made SUCH a big deal about this. Damn man...I'd smoke a bong with Michael Phelps...haha.


Yeah I remember that one. Ridiculously overblown incident in my opinion too.

To me, smoking a bong is as taboo as drinking beer.
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#195 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

Yeah I remember that one. Ridiculously overblown incident in my opinion too.

To me, smoking a bong is as taboo as drinking beer.


I've been scouring the net to find out what bong that is Phelps is holding...I've struck out so far...but it looks like it's pretty nice.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#196 Zamboni_14

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:35 PM

He only brought attention to it because he was an American who won.

I am pretty sure cycling had already been a big deal in Europe.

Edit: He brought it to the American stage, not the world stage.


disagree... ever heard of Greg LaMond? He brought it to the US. Lance just got more press due to the whole "slim chance of living and winning the Tour" idea.
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#197 Zamboni_14

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

Lol it wasn't my money...I don't give a damn...lol I told them well let's see so far that's Alex Rodriguez and now Lance Armstrong that have disappointed you...that's twice now you've been duped by "celebrities". If it were me, there wouldn't be a third. lol.


not to derail this thread... but I think people worship celebrities/athletes too much to the point where they forget that these are people we are talking about, so they are subject to flaws (and in some cases, major flaws.) Even if your hero was a parent, even they have flaws and aren't perfect. So to expect nothing but perfection from these people/heros is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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#198 Jägermeister

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:55 PM

not to derail this thread... but I think people worship celebrities/athletes too much to the point where they forget that these are people we are talking about, so they are subject to flaws (and in some cases, major flaws.) Even if your hero was a parent, even they have flaws and aren't perfect. So to expect nothing but perfection from these people/heros is just setting yourself up for disappointment.


I agree.
Tiger Woods is a perfect example. He cheats on his wife a few times and its the top story on every news outlet for a week. Like who cares, its such a trivial matter compared to what else is going on in the world.
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#199 Zamboni_14

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:59 PM

I agree.
Tiger Woods is a perfect example. He cheats on his wife a few times and its the top story on every news outlet for a week. Like who cares, its such a trivial matter compared to what else is going on in the world.


actually... that whole thing made him MORE of a hero to me :P
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#200 Jägermeister

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 12:01 AM

actually... that whole thing made him MORE of a hero to me :P


Nah, not too sure about that. His wife was far more attractive than any of the girls he cheated on her with.
It's a good discussion on the basis quantity vs. quality.
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#201 hockeyfan87

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

I'm disgusted by Lance Armstrong and more generally the way our global society has seized upon the story but this made me think of redemption. He's a fraud and cheat but if you believe in redemption what would it take for you to see him in a positive light again? Or at the very least what does he have to start to do to right the wrongs he has caused? When I thought about this I realized almost nothing he could realistically do would change my mind after what I've come to realize was a career built upon lies and cheating but find that to be a troubling reflection of myself and my views on justice.
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#202 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:02 AM

I'm disgusted by Lance Armstrong and more generally the way our global society has seized upon the story but this made me think of redemption. He's a fraud and cheat but if you believe in redemption what would it take for you to see him in a positive light again? Or at the very least what does he have to start to do to right the wrongs he has caused? When I thought about this I realized almost nothing he could realistically do would change my mind after what I've come to realize was a career built upon lies and cheating but find that to be a troubling reflection of myself and my views on justice.


I agree with you 100%. I don't believe in redemption, but even if I did, there's no amount of atonement that would set all this right again.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.




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