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The Tide Has Turned in Vancouver: A Prediction


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#211 Shift-4

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:33 AM

I'm truly beginning to think you and King are actually one person. If not, you are certainly the other nut in the same sack.



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#212 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:35 AM

Wait now you're saying we should have traded Schneider instead of Luongo? :rolleyes:

Aren't you the one who constantly reminds us how bad Luongo is?


No that was Nuck Nit.

To be fair King has always given the opinion that Gillis should have gotten rid of Schneider.

IMO if the tables were turned and the plan was to trade Schneider he'd be singing a different tune but that's just because he's anti-Gillis. That being said fair is fair and King has never said Luongo should be traded over Schneider.
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#213 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

Why do you see my Private messages from the mods and admin?

You think that all your silly threads (many of which get moved or deleted) don't deserve warnings? Being a contrarian simply to be a contrarian is not "the road less traveled". Especially not when while you're doing it you pick and choose the counter arguments you pay attention to. That's why this whole "boo hooo he's giving his opinion" crap is just that. He can put out his opinion and then other can put out there's in rebuttal. If either of those ends up crossing a line that becomes an issue for the mods. If people don't like that they should go to some other hockey related message board.

P.S. I did find it funny that right after I posted about how I thought Shawn Rocker just got all his stuff from the newspaper Nuck Nit posts an article by Spector that's pretty much Kings post.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 17 January 2013 - 08:47 AM.

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#214 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

Wait now you're saying we should have traded Schneider instead of Luongo? :rolleyes:

Aren't you the one who constantly reminds us how bad Luongo is?


I've said from the start that trading Schneider would've been the smarter thing to do - prior to what happened in the playoffs, and (of course) after Luongo asked to be traded.

And no, I've not once said "how bad Luongo is", try again.
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#215 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:46 AM

MG did that with Hodgson and you got mad. Now you're mad he didn't with Schneider. The difference being Schneider played well enough to steal Luongo's spot, while Hodgson didn't play well enough to steal Henrik or Keslers spots. As usual, you have it backwards. Trading Hodgson = correct, while trading Schneider = incorrect.


I'm fine with trading Hodgson, I'm not fine with trading him for a guy that added nothing to the team in a Cup-contending year at the trade deadline.

What does making the playoffs have to do with how good an individual is? I must assume you also believe Nash sucks as he's only made the playoffs once as well. Making the playoffs requires a tad more than one individual. Something about a team involved.....


Losers find ways to lose, winners find ways to win. See Jay Bouwmeester, Todd Bertuzzi, David Booth, etc.

And yet he was offered more by other teams. You have no concept of market values.


Sure I do. Good for him that he (allegedly) had higher offers elsewhere. Ilya Bryzgalov got a big contract by Philadelphia. Is that an example of market value? Does that mean that I can't disagree with the market's value?

What if Schroeder scores 20 goals?
What if Garrison scores 20 goals?
What if Kassian scores 25 goals?
What if Raymond scores 50 goals?
What if the sun doesn't come up?
Aren't "what ifs" fun?????


Tell that to Smashian Kassian, who my "what if" was directed towards.
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#216 Dogbyte

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

MG did that with Hodgson and you got mad. Now you're mad he didn't with Schneider. The difference being Schneider played well enough to steal Luongo's spot, while Hodgson didn't play well enough to steal Henrik or Keslers spots. As usual, you have it backwards. Trading Hodgson = correct, while trading Schneider = incorrect.



He's a futures trader. I think sometimes he forgets that the name of the game is hockey and icing the best team. He's more worried about our portfolio.

Edited by Dogbyte, 17 January 2013 - 10:08 AM.

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#217 Forsy

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

You think that all your silly threads (many of which get moved or deleted) don't deserve warnings? Being a contrarian simply to be a contrarian is not "the road less traveled". Especially not when while you're doing it you pick and choose the counter arguments you pay attention to. That's why this whole "boo hooo he's giving his opinion" crap is just that. He can put out his opinion and then other can put out there's in rebuttal. If either of those ends up crossing a line that becomes an issue for the mods. If people don't like that they should go to some other hockey related message board.

P.S. I did find it funny that right after I posted about how I thought Shawn Rocker just got all his stuff from the newspaper Nuck Nit posts an article by Spector that's pretty much Kings post.

Either these guys use news articles for threads, or they are using these forums as a test ground for their wacky ideas to produce online articles that will generate traffic.
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#218 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

Either these guys use news articles for threads, or they are using these forums as a test ground for their wacky ideas to produce online articles that will generate traffic.


Ding, ding! A most plausible scenario, indeed.
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#219 aqua59

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:42 AM

In a sentence, I am officially predicting that the Vancouver Canucks will MISS the playoffs in 2013.

Here's why:

-Goaltending fiasco. Don't care about PC responses from the players or the GM, this will be a major distraction that will have an adverse effect on team morale. Awkward locker room. Poor allocation of cap dollars. I've said for a long time that the Canucks really missed the boat by not trading Schneider for something that could've seriously helped up in a Cup run last year, and it will for a long time be a regret of ours, IMO. Whatever we get for Luongo will be unexciting and we'll still have a relatively unproven goalie backstopping an alleged "team built to win now". Not a good combination.

-Complacency. Why didn't anybody go to Europe? Practicing with the UBC team is hardly an adequate preparation for the season. Makes me think that this bunch has largely lost their hunger. A 5-game post-season exit last year adds credence to this thought. By not going to Europe/Russia, the message in essence is that they'd rather stay in their posh Vancouver homes than be bothered to go try and compete to help stay sharp. Not a good sign. Of course, this doesn't include everybody, but the vast majority of the team chose to not play hockey in the downtime. I expect it to cost them.

-Calgary has gotten better. Added good scoring depth in Hudler, and late-season acquisition Cammalleri. Got rid of Jokinen, which is addition by subtraction. Got a proven PP QB in Wideman. Most importantly, a new coach. Would not surprise me at all to see the Flames win the division, somewhat like the Canucks did in '06-'07, out of nowhere and under AV's rookie year behind the bench.

-Edmonton has gotten better. Justin Schultz is going to be a star. I like the Fistric acquisition a lot. Dubnyk was very good at the Spengler Cup. Heavy momentum going into the year. Key guys are already in mid-season form.

-Minnesota has gotten better. Granlund, Parise, & Suter should all have an immediate and material impact.

David Booth's injury announcement yesterday just makes me more confident that this is one of those years where essentially everything's going to go wrong for the Canucks. The Jason Garrison signing is also one that I was/am vehemently against. Don't expect it to turn out good. Sami Salo's presence on the back end will be sorely missed.

And no, I am not "hating", so please don't suggest that I am. This is an opinion of mine that I am fully entitled to. Feel free to debate and/or include your own prediction.



In some ways I agree with you but not because of the other teams in their division are improving. Between the circumstance of injured players and the Canucks beating themselves because of disarray on the 2nd line down they'll either miss the play offs or bow out in the first round. 2nd, 3rd,4th line are not solid enough, we all know it. I remember when we were just wondering about the 4th line.

Emotionally I accepted there was going to be no season. This is just bonus. Missing the play offs will hurt ownerships pocket in no way we could unless we stayed away and didn't watch.I've got nothing against Mr Aquillini but I still think he will pay in some way with the lock out partially on his head. Karma gets Canucks ownership this time and the Cancuks might get a half decent spot on draft day.

Do I want to see the Canucks fail? No. I'd like a Cup like every one else. I just don't see it with this group.

Edited by aqua59, 17 January 2013 - 11:43 AM.

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#220 nuckin_futz

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

He's a futures trader. I think sometimes he forgets that the name of the game is hockey and icing the best team. He's more worried about our portfolio.


That's what I thought his handle referred to. Just thought that was way too obscure.
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#221 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

This is a critical juncture for them, and IMO it all depends on how their first 10 games go.

If they start out hot, I could certainly see them being a lower-seed playoff team. If not, though, they might begin to aggressively start dumping assets - doing a proper rebuild, if you will. Connolly, Lupul, MacArthur, Bozak, and Steckel are all UFAs after this year, so they could go into full distribution mode pretty quickly, to start accumulating picks/prospects. Like I've suggested on other threads, maybe Nonis has a target of Nate MacKinnon, Connor McDavid, or both. And if he does, you can kiss any thoughts of Luongo going to the Leafs as goodbye.


Banking on lottery picks is a stupid approach to rebuilding.
I'd bet a lot more than a lotto ticket that that is not his angle.

Edited by oldnews, 17 January 2013 - 12:25 PM.

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#222 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

The whole plan was to showcase Schneider for a trade, which should've happened. The fact that it didn't was a big mistake.


King's re-version/re'vision' of history.
I hope you're a better futures trader than you are a hockey speculator.
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#223 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

Taking into consideration that everyone has something of value should be celebrated and not ridiculed.


You might consider he has enough talent to have a career writing.You keep providing us with such ironic quotes,Smasshian.


I love it when bloggers call down pro journalists like they do pro athletes.


Go > your own way.
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#224 oldnews

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Will Ferrell has a rather successful acting career despite being a horrendously bad actor.


Gillis' plan is never gonna work.


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#225 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:45 PM

I have a bad feeling about this season, but I don't know if we will miss the playoffs, I'm thinking more a 1st round exit.

I don't see MG doing anything worthwhile this season and if he does trade Lu he will probably screw us over like he does in most of his trades.

It all depends on how the Sedins do, Kesler and Booth coming back on time, and Kassian needs to have a big impact if we want to go far in the playoffs.

I'm not worried about goaltending.
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#226 CrazyAL

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

I find it funny how you talk about the teams getting better and seem to mention a lot about Calgary as if they're the top team in the NW vs the other better teams like the Wild, Oilers, and you don't even mention Colorado?.... could the Nucks miss the playoffs? maybe but if that happens it will have little to do with your Flames which many would say is the worse team in that div.
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#227 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

Banking on lottery picks is a stupid approach to rebuilding.
I'd bet a lot more than a lotto ticket that that is not his angle.


Worked in Chicago, worked in Pittsburgh. I won't yet say that it's "worked" in Edmonton, but a lot of people are justifiably excited about their future. The places that it hasn't worked is in Columbus and Long Island.

Probably not coincidental that the places that it's been successful are well-run organizations, with good history's, and with good fan support, of which Toronto is all.

Also, "lottery picks" is a bit vague, I'm talking top 1 - 3 picks for 2 - 3 years.
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#228 D-Money

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:19 PM

I don't see MG doing anything worthwhile this season and if he does trade Lu he will probably screw us over like he does in most of his trades.


Ehrhoff

Higgins

Lapierre

Booth

There are four trades that either worked out very well for the Canucks, or at the very least, were even. Since you said MG 'screws us over' on "most" of his trades, please direct me to at least five trades where this could be true.
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#229 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:20 PM

I find it funny how you talk about the teams getting better and seem to mention a lot about Calgary as if they're the top team in the NW vs the other better teams like the Wild, Oilers, and you don't even mention Colorado?.... could the Nucks miss the playoffs? maybe but if that happens it will have little to do with your Flames which many would say is the worse team in that div.


Not sure how close you follow the Flames, but they're a pretty intriguing team to me. Still have Iginla, still have Kipper. Still have the 25+ minute d-man in Bouwmeester. Decent scoring depth in Cammalleri, Tanguay, Hudler, Glencross, maybe Baertschi. Added Wideman, who's very effective on the PP. Brought in Bob Hartley, who's supposedly very excited to be back in the NHL, and doing everything he can to make sure he never is forced out again.

Interesting team. A new coach often has a big effect. Nobody thought our team was going anywhere when AV was brought in. I'm not saying that the division is theirs, I'm saying that I would not be surprised. They're better than what people are saying.
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#230 Shift-4

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

Not sure how close you follow the Flames, but they're a pretty intriguing team to me. Still have Iginla, still have Kipper. Still have the 25+ minute d-man in Bouwmeester. Decent scoring depth in Cammalleri, Tanguay, Glencross,



:rolleyes:

All the same guys that didn't get the job done that last few years.


I can see the Flames maybe squeaking into the playoffs. But the mere suggestion that they could win the division just makes you look silly.
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#231 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

:rolleyes:

All the same guys that didn't get the job done that last few years.


Exactly.
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#232 Jägermeister

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

Jay Bouwmeester is terrible, that is all.
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#233 Baggins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

I'm fine with trading Hodgson, I'm not fine with trading him for a guy that added nothing to the team in a Cup-contending year at the trade deadline.


Pahlsson was added for the playoff run as a shutdown player. Kassian is for the future.

Losers find ways to lose, winners find ways to win. See Jay Bouwmeester, Todd Bertuzzi, David Booth, etc.


So hall of famer Marcel Dionne is just a loser? He played on one of the best lines in the league in his time. It doesn't matter how good an individual is, you still need a TEAM to have any playoff success. Ask Igilna. I pretty sure he'd agree as he's been on both ends.

Sure I do. Good for him that he (allegedly) had higher offers elsewhere. Ilya Bryzgalov got a big contract by Philadelphia. Is that an example of market value? Does that mean that I can't disagree with the market's value?


Market value does determine player salaries. The fact is Garrison signed for less to come here. How about you actually watch him play here before declaring him overpaid.

Tell that to Smashian Kassian, who my "what if" was directed towards.


I'm just joining in the pointless "what if" game you had going.
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#234 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

Exactly.


The Canucks played exactly 5 more games than the Flames did last year, so what, may I ask, are your expectations for them?
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#235 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

Pahlsson was added for the playoff run as a shutdown player. Kassian is for the future.


Yeah, how'd that work out? Who'd he shut down?

Critical error.

Market value does determine player salaries. The fact is Garrison signed for less to come here. How about you actually watch him play here before declaring him overpaid.


I'm not saying that he's overpaid. I'm saying that it was a bad signing. I'm saying that there's far too much risk - look at his resume, it's practically bare at the age of 28 - for that kind of term.
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#236 Shift-4

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:55 PM

The Canucks played exactly 5 more games than the Flames did last year, so what, may I ask, are your expectations for them?



And the Canucks WON the division where the flames DID NOT
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#237 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

And the Canucks WON the division where the flames DID NOT


Once again, EXACTLY!
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#238 King of the ES

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

Once again, EXACTLY!


Why can't either of you answer the simple question that I asked?

If it's so obvious that the division is the Canucks' to lose, why not state it?
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#239 Shift-4

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

Why can't either of you answer the simple question that I asked?

If it's so obvious that the division is the Canucks' to lose, why not state it?


Because this is a discussion about YOUR suggestion that the Flames could WIN the division. :rolleyes:
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#240 disisdayear

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

Why can't either of you answer the simple question that I asked?

If it's so obvious that the division is the Canucks' to lose, why not state it?


Yeah, it's obvious...Canucks are defending PT/NW division winners. So, they are the incumbents, which automatically makes it theirs to lose. Not all that complicated.

I can't believe how long this thread has been running...same arguments being made from both sides over and over again.
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