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team 1040 talking about Luo's value...


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#1 nitwitt

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

Team 1040 remarking that Canuck fans would be happy with Bozak, Kadri and 2nd for Luongo...
Please Mike G. don't do it. Bozak is not a true top 6 forward and Kadri doesn't make the team. Stick to your guns, a big scoring winger(top six guy like Clowe) , good prospect and 2nd round pick.

just my opinion.
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#2 MC Fatigue

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:24 PM

Team 1040 remarking that Canuck fans would be happy with Bozak, Kadri and 2nd for Luongo...


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#3 eretz canucks

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

Bozak, Kadri and a 2nd would be an epic fail, but Gillis has shown before that he likes to throw in a crap trade (Ballard, Bernier, Coho) now and again. This trade does not help us at all.

How about:

To Philly
Luongo
Cannauton
2014 first
Raymond

To Van
Couturier
Simmons
Bryz


See we give up way more, take on Bryz who we can buy out, but get two young, big players who will help us now and in the future.
MG woould not think of this, nor would he take Bryz back because he is not capable of thinking outside the box.
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#4 Down by the River

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

Luongo won't be traded until the trade deadline nears.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#5 Aladeen

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

Team 1040 remarking that Canuck fans would be happy with Bozak, Kadri and 2nd for Luongo...
Please Mike G. don't do it. Bozak is not a true top 6 forward and Kadri doesn't make the team. Stick to your guns, a big scoring winger(top six guy like Clowe) , good prospect and 2nd round pick.

just my opinion.

Whoever is saying that on Team 1040 is an idiot and does not speak for me. Personally I would only be happy with that return if Luongo shattered his spine and would be in traction for the rest of his life (even then we're taking Kadri).

Man that return blows, I would way way rather keep Luongo and sign Arnott and Kostopoloplopglopolopolous (sp?) as fillers till Kesler and Booth return.
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#6 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

@ eretz: Basically same trade I proposed last week. Gillis wouldn't make that decision though-I'd say it'd be up to the Aquilini's.
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#7 Trebreh

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

MG needs to hit the home run with the Luongo trade.

I dont want Toronto's crap unless its a 1st and Gardiner.

Either talk to Florida exclusively until Toronto caves, or just wait till deadline when teams are desperate.
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#8 Kass9

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:54 PM

Is it just me or do you guys also feel that the Canucks should keep Luongo and really make a run for the Cup hard for one last try, with Lui that is. I feel in this shortened season, we will need the best goaltending we can get and we have an awesome tandem. Trade Luongo in the summer.

Edit: I do understand that we need to fulfil some needs up front.

Edited by Kass9, 16 January 2013 - 03:55 PM.

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#9 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

Kass9, In a perfect world, if we won with both 'tenders shining, we could then make a deal with either one. If the Schneids deal was that much better...It would simply be incredible to see both these bloke's names on the Cup.

It's pretty darn rare for a team to have TWO goaltenders so talented-in addition to being really good guys & teammates. Can anyone remember a comparable?
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#10 D-Money

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

Bozak is a decent two-way center, who is only 26 years old. He had 47 points last year, despite missing 9 games with injury. Lapierre and Malhotra had 37 points combined, each playing more games than him. I'm not sure why everyone is dismissing him as completely valueless, especially with our need for a 2nd line center.

Also based on AHL play, Kadri > Schroeder by a long shot. We could use a forward prospect with offensive flair desperately. And our prospect pool is looking shallow, so another 2nd round pick certainly wouldn't hurt that.

True, none of Bozak, Kadri, or the 2nd round pick are sure things. That package would definitely not be a "homerun". However, it directly addresses three glaring organizational needs - now (2nd C), the near future (forward prospect who can score), and the later future (lack of prospect depth). So, if there really isn't a better deal on the table, I would say that I certainly wouldn't be unhappy with that trade.
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#11 kloubek

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

I think many of you are expecting too much of a return for Luongo, unfortunately. Yes he is a wicked goalie, but it's supply and demand... and if there aren't a lot of teams demanding the supply, that drives the price down. Plus although he hasn't shown signs of slowing down, he eventually WILL start to enter the twilight of his career, so any team taking him on is taking an known risk.
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#12 Down by the River

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

Bozak is a decent two-way center, who is only 26 years old. He had 47 points last year, despite missing 9 games with injury. Lapierre and Malhotra had 37 points combined, each playing more games than him. I'm not sure why everyone is dismissing him as completely valueless, especially with our need for a 2nd line center.

Also based on AHL play, Kadri > Schroeder by a long shot. We could use a forward prospect with offensive flair desperately. And our prospect pool is looking shallow, so another 2nd round pick certainly wouldn't hurt that.

True, none of Bozak, Kadri, or the 2nd round pick are sure things. That package would definitely not be a "homerun". However, it directly addresses three glaring organizational needs - now (2nd C), the near future (forward prospect who can score), and the later future (lack of prospect depth). So, if there really isn't a better deal on the table, I would say that I certainly wouldn't be unhappy with that trade.


The problem I have is that Bozak is just a stop-gap until Kes can make it back into the lineup. After Kes comes back, then what? The Canucks have a ton of depth to fill the 3rd and 4th line centre role. Should we keep Bozak on the 2nd line and have Kes play the Jordan Staal (circa 2008) roll of 3rd line shutdown/scoring centre? If Weiss was coming back, I wouldn't mind that move for Kesler, but only because Weiss is an upgrade over Bozak.

I think another dman and a strong winger are what would best fit the Canucks' long-term needs.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

Down by the River - Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.


#13 elvis15

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

So OP, what are you proposing (considering we're in the proposal forum)?
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#14 canucklehead44

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

Maybe in the offseason, but not this year. If Schneider falters or gets injured it is season over. Bozak and Kadri don't bring enough to really improve the team. That said, Bozak is a UFA so no this wouldn't happen in the offseason.

We should go after a solid backup like Theodore or Nabokov in the offseason. That would make it easier to trade Luongo for a roster player and picks.

Edited by canucklehead44, 16 January 2013 - 08:59 PM.

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#15 oldnews

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

Bozak, Kadri and a 2nd would be an epic fail, but Gillis has shown before that he likes to throw in a crap trade (Ballard, Bernier, Coho) now and again. This trade does not help us at all.

How about:

To Philly
Luongo
Cannauton
2014 first
Raymond

To Van
Couturier
Simmons
Bryz


See we give up way more, take on Bryz who we can buy out, but get two young, big players who will help us now and in the future.
MG woould not think of this, nor would he take Bryz back because he is not capable of thinking outside the box.


You call the Kassian trade crap and then you propose that?

Are you intending to include Cannata or Connauton in that deal?

Regardless, that's an overpayment even before taking Bryzgalov back - with him included, it's nightmarish.

The Aquillini's just re-signed Gillis - if he did something like that he might be the one getting bought out.
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#16 palindrom

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

Kass9, In a perfect world, if we won with both 'tenders shining, we could then make a deal with either one. If the Schneids deal was that much better...It would simply be incredible to see both these bloke's names on the Cup.

It's pretty darn rare for a team to have TWO goaltenders so talented-in addition to being really good guys & teammates. Can anyone remember a comparable?


Hasek and Belfour ?
Price and Halak?
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Posted Image Was too much for me!

Instead im reading English grammar for advanced dummies





#17 ForsbergTheGreat

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

People need to take off the homer glasses when it comes to luongos value. Considering his age, his contract, HIS decision on where to go, and the market, this deal is fair if not more that he eventually gets.
1. Luongo is not looking to go to a rebuilding team and no rebuilding team would want an older goalie. Cross out NYI, and CBJ
2. Many teams have goalie prospects that they are developing to become take the role of #1. Cross out BOS, TB, FLA, EDM
3. It's not the 90's anymore, most teams already has solid #1 starters they rely on. Cross out MTL, BUF, NYR PHI, PIT, CAR WPG, CAL, MIN, DET, NSH, ANA, DAL, COL, LAS, PHX, SJ.

So who is left. You got TOR, & NJ
Not much of a market for a aging goalie with a long term contract. He still is a great goalie, but how much would other teams be willing to give up if only for a slight unproven upgrade. Were not talking about Roy or Brodeur in there prime. It boils down to simple economics. High supply and low demand = low prices.

Next thing people need to realize is Schroeder has little to no value. 0 NHL games and not exceptional numbers in the AHL. If Lombardi a once 53 point NHL player gets only a conditional pick, what would a guy like Schroeder deserve. Think about it, really.

Bozak Put up 47 points last year on the leafs. Burrows put up 52 points playing with the twins. He fills that 2nd line center role perfectly until kes comes back and then he becomes the 3 line center between hansen and higgins.

Finally then on top of this deal, we unload luongos cap hit and this is the most important piece of the deal. We then have room to sign/ trade for a player to fill any holes we may have. There it is i've said my piece. If you can logically explain why luongos value is worth more, i'm all ears....
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#18 Quint

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:57 PM

<p>

<br />
So OP, what are you proposing (considering we&#39;re in the proposal forum)?<br />

<br />
<br />
</p>

How bout Schneider straight up for Nail Yakupov? That's my proposal. Yay or nay?
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#19 Hamhuis2

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:12 AM

<p><br />
<br />
</p>

How bout Schneider straight up for Nail Yakupov? That's my proposal. Yay or nay?


I'm not a big Yakupov fan. Not denying his skill, but he hasn't looked great in the 10-15 games I've seen him. Then again, that's a very small sample size, so I really can't judge!

If we're trading with Edmonton, Schneider+3rd for Hall or Eberle.
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Chicago Blackhawks NHL 14 OCDC League 2013/2014

J. Schultz(81)-Toews(92)-Pacioretty(88)....Keith(90)-Phaneuf(87)................Crawford(86)
Burns(87)-Kadri(85)-Yakupov(83)..............Hjalmarson(85)-N. Schultz(84)....Khabby(76)
Clarkson(83)-Zibanejad(80)-Ennis(82).......Koska(78)-Murray(83)
Kobasew(78)-Hanszus(79)-Morin(76)

#20 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:09 AM

I'm not a big Yakupov fan. Not denying his skill, but he hasn't looked great in the 10-15 games I've seen him. Then again, that's a very small sample size, so I really can't judge!

If we're trading with Edmonton, Schneider+3rd for Hall or Eberle.

Just one of Hall, Eberle, Yakupov or RNH is worth much more than Schneider.
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#21 Goalscorer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:26 AM

What doesn't get addressed in this forum are the other options available to teams considering an upgrade in net. I think we can all agree that Luongo is a workhorse and would help any team looking for an upgrade, but at what cost??
Trade for a top 6 forward and youth = No
Take on a huge contract = maybe
Any package throwing in Ballard, Raymond or Schroeder = not going to happen
Look at other options = yes

Wouldn't it be smarter for the Leafs to take a run at Halak ?? Bernier?? If I was a Leaf fan, I would be very comfortable with Halak and Reimer as my 1-2 and retain an asset or two?
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#22 Pears

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:33 AM

Just one of Hall, Eberle, Yakupov or RNH is worth much more than Schneider.

LOL at Yakupov being worth much more than Schneider. Sure Hall, RNH and Eberle are but to say Yakupov is is absurd.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#23 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:40 AM

Kass9, In a perfect world, if we won with both 'tenders shining, we could then make a deal with either one. If the Schneids deal was that much better...It would simply be incredible to see both these bloke's names on the Cup.

It's pretty darn rare for a team to have TWO goaltenders so talented-in addition to being really good guys & teammates. Can anyone remember a comparable?

Roloson and Fernandez back in the day for the Wild
Nabokov and Toskala (before Toskala was a Leaf)
J.S. Giguere and Ilya Bryzgalov for the Ducks in 07
Hasek and Osgood in 08 for the Wings
Price and Halak a couple seasons ago when they beat Washington and Pittsburgh with pure defence and goaltending

Most recently
Halak and Elliott, Quick and Bernier, Backstrom and Harding, Rinne and Lindback (debatable but still two very good goalies), Thomas and Rask



And this is going off pure memory. I didn't Google any of this but there have been several goalie tandems that have been in the league for a while now so it's not a rarity to find two gem goalies on one team.
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credit to allons-y

Certainly going to be our #1 defensemen. Give him a couple more years to improve his game and he'll be our new and improved version of Matthias Ohlund in no time

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^Truth


#24 Goalscorer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:44 AM

Smith and Lockett
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#25 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:41 AM

So essentially $35 mill and a first for Couturiere and "Simmons!"

Obviously not you paying the cheques!

Plus give up Lou...

:picard:

Bozak, Kadri and a 2nd would be an epic fail, but Gillis has shown before that he likes to throw in a crap trade (Ballard, Bernier, Coho) now and again. This trade does not help us at all.

How about:

To Philly
Luongo
Cannauton
2014 first
Raymond

To Van
Couturier
Simmons
Bryz


See we give up way more, take on Bryz who we can buy out, but get two young, big players who will help us now and in the future.
MG woould not think of this, nor would he take Bryz back because he is not capable of thinking outside the box.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 17 January 2013 - 04:43 AM.

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#26 timberz21

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:22 AM

I think drafting Kadri was ultimately Burke's demise. He was is first choice, and I dont think Kadri was his choice but rather his head scout's choice.

Yet again, Glennie and Paarjavi are epic fail as well. Kassian would have been Burke's perfect player, but still not a superstar
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#27 eretz canucks

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:36 AM

So essentially $35 mill and a first for Couturiere and "Simmons!"

Obviously not you paying the cheques!

Plus give up Lou...

:picard:



we could always flip Bryz to TO for a 2nd straight up. LOL
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#28 D-Money

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:55 AM

The problem I have is that Bozak is just a stop-gap until Kes can make it back into the lineup. After Kes comes back, then what? The Canucks have a ton of depth to fill the 3rd and 4th line centre role. Should we keep Bozak on the 2nd line and have Kes play the Jordan Staal (circa 2008) roll of 3rd line shutdown/scoring centre? If Weiss was coming back, I wouldn't mind that move for Kesler, but only because Weiss is an upgrade over Bozak.

I think another dman and a strong winger are what would best fit the Canucks' long-term needs.


Look at us - 2 injuries, and the 2nd line is a total mess. You really think there won't be more injuries as the season goes on? Quality depth is never a bad thing.

And if we're totally healthy and need to get rid of a top-9 tweener, we can unload someone for another pick - whoever isn't fitting in as well. With the compressed game schedule, there will be lots of teams with injuries, desperate not to let a chunk of the schedule pass them by with a big hole in their roster. If that ends up being Bozak, so be it.
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#29 Aladeen

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

Look at us - 2 injuries, and the 2nd line is a total mess. You really think there won't be more injuries as the season goes on? Quality depth is never a bad thing.

And if we're totally healthy and need to get rid of a top-9 tweener, we can unload someone for another pick - whoever isn't fitting in as well. With the compressed game schedule, there will be lots of teams with injuries, desperate not to let a chunk of the schedule pass them by with a big hole in their roster. If that ends up being Bozak, so be it.

This included with your last post is just ridiculous, thank God you are not the MG. Not that it matters anyways because this is obviously not happening.

1. We get Bozak - fine he is a decent second line center and would be great for the month that Kes is out. What happens when Kes gets back will he simply slip to the 3rd line center position. Is he a better shutdown Center than either Lappy or Manny?(sure he has more points than these two as you've stated, but not every position on a team is about scoring points least of all 3rd line center)At best he is redundant after a month in actuality his is useless. Then we flip him later on? to who for what?

2.Kadri - You say we should want Kadri because he is a better AHL player than Schroeder? Yah AHL success always = NHL success huh? Well lets see here we have Hank, Kes when he returns, and with this awful trade Bozak, Lappy and Manny. Where does Kadri the AHL superstar fit into the Canucks lineup exactly? Wow lets stock up on prospects that are less likely to ever suit up for a Canucks game than you. Great idea bud. He didn't crack the leafs roster but will be Centering a line on the Canucks soon is that right? I don't think Kadri was made for 3c duty and just when are we planning on getting rid of Hank or Kes exactly?

3. Now for that amazing 2nd round pick. Well to me this is the only thing of Value coming back for Luongo in this pathetic trade. Maybe it would be enticing if the Leafs finish where they have for the past few years but really with Luongo backstopping them I think they at least eek into the playoffs so really this pick is like 47th+ - what are the percentages 47th+ picks pan out? Not enough to give up an Allstar goalie for IMO.

Edited by Aladeen, 17 January 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#30 Aladeen

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

People need to take off the homer glasses when it comes to luongos value. Considering his age, his contract, HIS decision on where to go, and the market, this deal is fair if not more that he eventually gets.
1. Luongo is not looking to go to a rebuilding team and no rebuilding team would want an older goalie. Cross out NYI, and CBJ
2. Many teams have goalie prospects that they are developing to become take the role of #1. Cross out BOS, TB, FLA, EDM
3. It's not the 90's anymore, most teams already has solid #1 starters they rely on. Cross out MTL, BUF, NYR PHI, PIT, CAR WPG, CAL, MIN, DET, NSH, ANA, DAL, COL, LAS, PHX, SJ.

So who is left. You got TOR, & NJ
Not much of a market for a aging goalie with a long term contract. He still is a great goalie, but how much would other teams be willing to give up if only for a slight unproven upgrade. Were not talking about Roy or Brodeur in there prime. It boils down to simple economics. High supply and low demand = low prices.

Next thing people need to realize is Schroeder has little to no value. 0 NHL games and not exceptional numbers in the AHL. If Lombardi a once 53 point NHL player gets only a conditional pick, what would a guy like Schroeder deserve. Think about it, really.

Bozak Put up 47 points last year on the leafs. Burrows put up 52 points playing with the twins. He fills that 2nd line center role perfectly until kes comes back and then he becomes the 3 line center between hansen and higgins.

Finally then on top of this deal, we unload luongos cap hit and this is the most important piece of the deal. We then have room to sign/ trade for a player to fill any holes we may have. There it is i've said my piece. If you can logically explain why luongos value is worth more, i'm all ears....

You lost all credibility when you said Philly has a solid #1 starter LOL
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