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How about that Lower Mainland violence!?!?!


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#1 VoiceOfReason_

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:59 PM

4 more people just shot inside of a banquet hall in Richmond.

Brings the shootings to what, 13 in 48 hours?

4 dead in Surrey. 1 in critical.

2 dead in Hope.

2 dead in Vanderhoof.

4 more just shot in Richmond.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca...-hall-1.1117961

Edited by VoiceOfReason_, 16 January 2013 - 11:59 PM.

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#2 Edler0023

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

Is the banquet hall shooting gang related too?
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#3 Armada

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:34 AM

Isn't it all gang violence?
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#4 G-52

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:36 AM

Good old HA, I know the VI president!
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#5 WestCoastCanucks

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:38 AM

I always find January to be a busy time for shootings.
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#6 PlayStation

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

Banquet shooting was targeted, by another person who works within Longshore.
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#7 nux4lyfe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

The Banquet one is not gang related, it was my longshore buddies party that got promoted to a higher board, We knew there was gonna be lot of crazy drunk idiots there which is why my bro and I did not choose to go.
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#8 Lancaster

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:43 AM

Restrict guns! lol
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#9 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

Think Indo Canadian gangs...

You can't know too much?

Good old HA, I know the VI president!


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#10 nucklehead

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:38 AM

Isn't it all gang violence?

The Hope one was a murder/suicide. Not sure about Vanderhoof.
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#11 debluvscanucks

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:56 AM

I wouldn't consider all those places "lower mainland". I work right next door so not sure if there's any access to the area?

WTH is up with people shooting people? A little scary that altercations that used to involve a little punch up now end in death.
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#12 n00bxQb

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:04 AM

Clearly we need more guns in the hands of the general public to solve all this gun-related violence :ph34r:
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#13 Tearloch7

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:05 AM

I wouldn't consider all those places "lower mainland". I work right next door so not sure if there's any access to the area?

WTH is up with people shooting people? A little scary that altercations that used to involve a little punch up now end in death.


We emulate our "American Cousins" in every way we can .. it is hip to be armed, I guess?
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#14 avelanch

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:16 AM

I always find January to be a busy time for shootings.

early spring cleaning...
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#15 Shift-4

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

Vanderhoof........Lower Mainland?????


Someone needs a geography lesson.
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#16 n00bxQb

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

Vanderhoof........Lower Mainland?????


Someone needs a geography lesson.

It's only a ~12-hour drive away ...

Hope isn't lower mainland either.
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#17 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

Vanderhoof........Lower Mainland?????


Someone needs a geography lesson.

It's only a ~12-hour drive away ...

Hope isn't lower mainland either.


Perhaps the OP shouldn't rely on a GPS to tell him where Hope and Vanderhoof are?

Really? The lower mainland?.......Can't wait to check out my window for some beach viewing.......

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 17 January 2013 - 09:16 AM.

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#18 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

I wouldn't consider all those places "lower mainland". I work right next door so not sure if there's any access to the area?

WTH is up with people shooting people? A little scary that altercations that used to involve a little punch up now end in death.

Basic rule of thumb - more guns = more gun deaths.

And the corollary - more guns mean more disputes become more deadly.

See Harvard University's School of Public Health - Injury Control Research Center for Firearms Research:
http://www.hsph.harv...earms-research/
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#19 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

I wouldn't consider all those places "lower mainland". I work right next door so not sure if there's any access to the area?

WTH is up with people shooting people? A little scary that altercations that used to involve a little punch up now end in death.


That's why I don't fight anymore.

That, and the fact I've never been in a fight.

Which probably stems from the fact that I'm considered "small" (in physical stature, not what you're thinking, Mash).

Also I have delicate hands.

Edited by MaximYapierre, 17 January 2013 - 10:40 AM.

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#20 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

That's why I don't fight anymore.

That, and the fact I've never been in a fight.

Which probably stems from the fact that I'm considered "small" (in physical stature, not what you're thinking, Mash).

Also I have delicate hands.

You are a prime candidate for a handgun so you can equal the odds.
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#21 Electro Rock

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:19 AM

This province wouldn't have the gang problem that it does if it wasn't nearly so corrupt.

All these mid level gangs running wild are just a symptom of the deeper issue of big league organized crime running the show in this region.
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#22 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

This province wouldn't have the gang problem that it does if it wasn't nearly so corrupt.

All these mid level gangs running wild are just a symptom of the deeper issue of big league organized crime running the show in this region.

Corruption?

More like utter incompetence by the RCMP.

Broken and dysfunctional are terms applied to the RCMP for the past several years and it resonates here in BC after incident after incident proves out the truth of that description. I have worked with the RCMP on joint operations in the past including with CLEU and we always tried to avoid them as much as possible because they were a disaster. And they remain so to this day.


The RCMP is a significant obstacle to effective policing in BC - particularly against sophisticated criminals such as organized crime, white collar crime and complex frauds.

The dysfunctional RCMP sabotages efforts to investigate and prosecute organized crime through utter incompetence and the inability to work with other BC police police agencies.

BC has failed to combat organized crime for the past 35+ years as the RCMP has continually sabotaged efforts.

For years the Coordinated Law Enforcement Unit (known as CLEU but more like Clueless under the direction of the RCMP) dutifully reported year after year that Hell's Angels were the biggest organized crime threat in BC - yet were unable to secure one enterprise crime conviction in 25 years of operation.

The laws are fine, it is the investigation and evidence gathering that is the problem. It has been this way in the past 35 years in BC. Inspector Clouseau has done a better job than the BC police forces in investigating organized crime.

CLEU was formed in 1974 to fight organized criminal elements. The rationale was it was needed to transcend the traditional boundaries of jurisdiction. CLEU was a Joint Forces Operation, (JFO) funded in part by the provincial government and in part by the RCMP and all municipal police forces in the province. The RCMP was never happy having to share jurisdiction.

Every year CLEU dutifully published reports and analyses of organized crime in BC and named the number one target as Hell's Angels in virtually every report. Problem was during the 20+ years that CLEU existed they were unable to convict a single Hell's Angel of a any sort of organized crime offence. After years of bumbling and mismanagement CLEU was disbanded.

The problem I have pointed out is the inability of Canadian police as constituted to deal with sophisticated organized crime and sophisticated white collar crime. And then there is the more recent issue of cyber-crime.

It is not as if this is any secret as Stephen Owen clearly pointed this out in 1998 in his report commissioned for the BC government to examine the police response as currently constituted "is unable to cope with the growing sophistication and diversity of organized crime." (Report of the Organized Crime Independent Review Committee, S. Owen (Chair), R. Stewart, R. Bergman, Ministry of the Attorney General of British Columbia, September, 1998)

The Co-Ordinated Law Enforcement Unit (CLEU) spent 25 years targeting organized crime in BC particularly Hell's Angels which CLEU continually declared was the biggest threat to public safety and security while ignoring the Mafia and and failing to come to grips new threats like Asian gangs. Unfortunately CLEU was unable to secure a single criminal enterprise conviction against the Hell's Angels in its history and there were serious problems with security as apparently Hell's Angels placed a number of civilian workers inside. Cue all the jokes about the CLEU-less approach to fighting organized crime in BC.

Unfortunately CLEU was really only replaced in name only the Organized Crime Agency of British Columbia in 1999 which was again restructured in 2004 and put under the control of..... wait for it... the RCMP Posted Image Posted Image

Maybe the best commentary on this organization may be found at its website where after decade of operations you are met with the home page:
http://www.ocabc.org/

"The mandate of the Organized Crime Agency of British Columbia is to facilitate the disruption and suppression of organized crime which affects all British Columbians."

Please note that this web site is currently under reconstruction.




Many have also decried the management talent (or lack thereof) leading the RCMP - perhaps properly trained professionals with MBA's and HR training would go a long way to improving this state of affairs. Most recently Dr. Mike Webster.
http://forum.canucks...p...&hl=webster

Consider this loss of one of the best anti-biker cops from the VPD whose career was deep-sixed by the RCMP. This was a result of infighting and just plain turf protection on the part of the RCMP, a major anti-organized crime initiative targeting Hell's Angels (Project Phoenix) fell apart and a highly specialized VPD officer Al Dalstrom recognized as a national expert on biker gangs was targeted and forced out by you guessed it - the RCMP. Yup the RCMP got their man - unfortunately it was one of the really good guys - Al Dalstrom.

The bill to the taxpayers?

Well over $3 million down the tubes for mounting Project Phoenix and that never resulted in any charges despite all the evidence gathered.

Insp. Andy Richards, a former investigator with the OCABC who now works for Port Moody police, said Wednesday that Phoenix targeted nine suspects, including three full-patch members of the Hells Angels, and the case should have gone to trial.

"It was a very compelling case and ... highly prosecutable," said Richards. "But because so much baggage had been raised and so much mud had been thrown, Crown was not willing to proceed because ... it was not in the public interest to publicize the level and extent of the infighting."

Richards said, in his view, Phoenix was scuttled by senior RCMP officers because they were jealous another agency had succeeded against the Angels on what they saw as the Mounties' turf.


http://www.vancouver...6328/story.html

And a further $2 million dollars paid to Dalstrom in settlement of his wrongful dismissal suit so the story would hopefully be hushed up as the RCMP could not have any further horrendous publicity given the Robert Dziekanski death and screw-up in the Air India investigation.

Now facts in the Dalstrom wrongful dismissal case and the sabotage of Operation Phoenix targeting Hell's Angels are coming to light. And the RCMP is again embarrassingly at the centre of this ungodly mess.

This story was featured on CTV news - see:
http://www.ctvbc.ctv...ishColumbiaHome

And in the Globe and Mail.

Gary Mason

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail Published on Wednesday, Jul. 21, 2010 3:00AM EDT Last updated on Wednesday, Jul. 21, 2010 9:45PM EDT

The trial of Allen Dalstrom versus the Organized Crime Agency of B.C. had been under way in B.C. Supreme Court for only a few days when lawyers representing both sides approached Madam Justice Catherine Wedge asking for a temporary adjournment.

It was granted. And although no one knew it then, a wrongful-dismissal case that threatened to level serious allegations of misconduct against high-ranking RCMP members would never resume.

The Globe and Mail has now learned that $2-million of B.C. taxpayers' money was used to quietly end the affair in September, 2008. The secret arrangement was hatched on the courthouse steps during a break in the proceedings. Lawyers for the Crown approached Kevin Woodall, Mr. Dalstrom's lawyer, saying it was not in the public interest for the trial to go ahead.

At the time, the RCMP could not afford more damning headlines, given that support for Canada's national police force was at an all-time low after the tasering death of Robert Dziekanski one year earlier. On top of that, there were the in-custody deaths of Ian Bush and Kevin St. Arnaud that had raised serious questions about the conduct of the force in B.C. The turmoil rocking the RCMP has continued, most recently with the scathing findings of the commission set up to investigate Mr. Dziekanski's death, and the similarly damning report from the Air India commission.


The terms of the settlement were buried in a Crown Proceeding Act Report ending fiscal 2009, which said the province and OCABC accepted the plaintiff's offer to settle for $1.3-million plus salary and benefits, with the province contributing $550,000 and OCABC paying $750,000 plus salary and benefits for the six-year period outlined in the agreement. Mr. Dalstrom was making about $100,000 a year as an investigator, which puts the amount of the settlement over $2-million when benefits are factored in.

In November, 2008, Mr. Dalstrom received a written apology from OCABC, which is funded by the B.C. government. In essence, B.C. taxpayers were on the hook for the entire $2-million payout.

In exchange for walking away a rich man, the only promise the plaintiff made was to never reveal the terms of the offer or discuss details of the ugly internecine war many believe was ignited by the RCMP inside the walls of the OCABC, a joint operation between the Mounties and municipal police.

Today, few who played a part in the story are willing to talk about the events that destroyed the career of one of Canada's most accomplished gang investigators. That list includes the B.C. Solicitor-General's office, the RCMP and senior Mounties who have since retired.

Mr. Woodall issued a statement on his former client's behalf that read in part: "The events surrounding Mr. Dalstrom's dismissal from (OCABC) … were very painful for Mr. Dalstrom's family. … He does not wish to make any further comment on this difficult period."

Still, a transcript of Mr. Woodall's opening submission at trial obtained by The Globe lays out Mr. Dalstrom's case against his former employer. And while it is only the plaintiff's version of events, it makes clear why the Mounties might have worried about the trial going further.

According to Mr. Woodall's opening statements, Allen Dalstrom's troubles began when he opposed the RCMP's attempt to shut down a major drug investigation by the OCABC. Mr. Dalstrom was the lead investigator on the probe, called Project Phoenix, which was targeting Hells Angels.

The RCMP, though it had officers on the OCABC, was upset that Phoenix might jeopardize its own parallel undercover drug investigation. It is widely believed that Mr. Dalstrom's successful defence of Phoenix earned him the eternal enmity of the RCMP.


Three RCMP officers would eventually be assigned to Phoenix, and months afterward allegations began being leveled against Mr. Dalstrom. One RCMP officer said Mr. Dalstrom urged him to massage wiretap affidavits to give them a better chance of succeeding before a judge. Mr. Dalstrom was accused of harassing and intimidating another RCMP officer at the agency. It was also alleged he sexually harassed a female civilian employee.

Mr. Dalstrom was cleared of all those allegations, and Phoenix resulted in scores of drug seizures. But the infighting eventually doomed the project, and charges were never laid.

The fighting worsened after a book by Julian Sher, The Road to Hell, came out with a quote from an OCABC insider about how the RCMP viewed the joint operation as an affront to the force's prerogatives: "We are seen as infringing on their exclusive bailiwick of federal policing and organized crime policing, and they have done frack all here for 25 years."

The hunt was on to find out who it came from, the suspicion falling on Mr. Dalstrom, who confirmed he'd talked to Mr. Sher but denied saying those words.

After that, life was even more difficult for Mr. Dalstrom at OCABC. He was put on administrative leave on Feb. 5, 2004, ostensibly because there wasn't anything suitable for him to do in the organization. In July of that year he was terminated, with no explanation. In April, 2006, he filed his wrongful-dismissal suit.

The case promised to make for some uncomfortable time in the witness box for Bev Busson, who headed the RCMP's 'E' Division in Vancouver and was chair of OCABC's board of governance when Mr. Dalstrom worked for the agency. (After briefly serving as commissioner of the RCMP in Ottawa in 2006-07, Ms. Busson retired.)

According to Mr. Woodall's opening submission, it was Ms. Busson and David Douglas, a career Mountie from Manitoba who was retired from the force when he became chief officer of OCABC, who "entered a secret agreement" to get Mr. Dalstrom fired. Mr. Woodall also said there was expected to be evidence that Mr. Douglas threatened to "starve" Mr. Dalstrom out by dragging the court case on while the unemployed officer's legal bills piled up. It was also alleged that Mr. Douglas wanted Mr. Dalstrom to know that, if he sued for wrongful dismissal, the unproven allegations of sexual misconduct would be raised in court.

Andy Richards was Mr. Dalstrom's supervisor during the plaintiff's time at OCABC. Mr. Richards, now a senior ranking officer with the Port Moody, B.C., municipal police, had a front-row seat on the unsightly antics allegedly being cooked up to get rid of a respected investigator. In an interview, he said he was asked to change Mr. Dalstrom's employee performance appraisal to make it less flattering. Mr. Richards refused. He said statements Mr. Douglas was alleged to have made about "starving" Mr. Dalstrom out and bringing up the unfounded sexual misconduct allegations were made in his company.

Asked why he thought such a lavish out-of-court settlement was offered to Mr. Dalstrom, Mr. Richards said: "I think OCABC and the government wanted all that nastiness and RCMP dirty tricks to remain a secret." He added: "It really is one of the sorriest chapters in our policing history in this province."

Al Dalstrom now lives in a Vancouver suburb with his wife and two children. He has never returned to policing, and works in the construction industry.


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#23 Common sense

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

^^

I swear this is an exact cup-and-paste from previous Canadian crime-related threads...
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#24 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:37 PM

^^

I swear this is an exact cup-and-paste from previous Canadian crime-related threads...

And???
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#25 debluvscanucks

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

Was just over there (my favorite cafe is across the street...not much business today I'll tell ya). Something very weird in seeing a crime scene like this...makes it hit home that much more.

And M-Y - your last line made me laugh. Post of the year material.
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#26 GLASSJAW

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:45 PM

relocate this to some southern state and this thread would have 8 pages of people saying how dumb americans are

instead, we get comments on how these people are trying to emulate americans

k
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le temps restitué

#27 Electro Rock

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

It's not just a lack of effectiveness on the part of the RCMP, Wet, its that this region is culturally particularily open to shady dealings of all kinds and is host to organizations that even the FBI has trouble dealing with, like the Triads and N'dranghetta.

From there spring all these unstable mid level groups that have an usual amount of power and influence for what they are.
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#28 Wetcoaster

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

It's not just a lack of effectiveness on the part of the RCMP, Wet, its that this region is culturally particularily open to shady dealings of all kinds and is host to organizations that even the FBI has trouble dealing with, like the Triads and N'dranghetta.

From there spring all these unstable mid level groups that have an usual amount of power and influence for what they are.

That has not been my experiences in dealing with and observing the RCMP over the years.
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#29 Salmonberries

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

Well we're off to a rip roaring start for 2013. It doesn't seem that long ago when 12 murders would be plenty for the whole year.
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#30 Charlie.the.Unicorn

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 06:06 PM

Was just over there (my favorite cafe is across the street...not much business today I'll tell ya). Something very weird in seeing a crime scene like this...makes it hit home that much more.

And M-Y - your last line made me laugh. Post of the year material.


The Blue Plate? lol
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