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All over again.. Are Canucks Tough Enough?


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#1 Canouver

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

During the Boston series canucks were not tough and the next year against LA they got beat up. This looks just as bad if not worse. Kassians big but hardly took the body last year. Lappy might be the only reliable player. Edler shows up physically once every 7 games. Volpatti and Weise only play a few minutes per night. I think we lack the skillful physical players that Boston and LA had like Dustin Brown or Milan Lucic. I hope for the best, maybe with a short season our guys won't get worn out as much.

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#2 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Figures with the season starting again that these threads begin to pop up.
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#3 Pablo

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

Lets sign Mike Tyson. Goon it up.


I like watching exciting hockey, not a bunch of meatheads giving each other concussions.
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#4 riffraff

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

imo with the shortened season, most teams will stick to hockey between the whistles, and general attention to acquiring points. As well, expect the officiating to condone "attractive hockey" due to the assclownery of the lockout.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#5 Heretic

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

imo with the shortened season, most teams will stick to hockey between the whistles, and general attention to acquiring points. As well, expect the officiating to condone "attractive hockey" due to the assclownery of the lockout.


True - but different game in the playoffs...
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#6 Grapefruits

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

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Figures with the season starting again that these threads begin to pop up.


Considering the team gets knocked around every playoffs, it's a valid concern.
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#7 Lychees

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:14 PM

I've always wondered why we need to cater to the other teams style of play instead of sticking to our, as proven that we can quite assertively handle the elite teams of the league (while scraping by against the lesser for some reason <_< <_< ) by playing our game. Skillful power forwards are a dime a dozen, that's why we got Kassian
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#8 cIutch

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

LA beat them up???

im pretty sure your confusing beat , with beat up , boston forsure beat us up

but la just scored goals ,

terrible thread , will not return
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#9 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

I don't think toughness wins Stanley Cup. Just look at Detroit.

Besides, we do have some tough players on this team.
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#10 TheEhrhoffEffect

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

Canucks lost to the Bruins because they were injured, not intimidated. If Hamhuis didn't get hurt in game 2, it would've been a different series. Teams win through offensive depth, not only grit.

Edited by TheEhrhoffEffect, 18 January 2013 - 09:19 PM.

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#11 riffraff

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

True - but different game in the playoffs...


true.......although LA didnt goon their way to the cup.

Id say the worst goonery was NJ vs NY ie the near line brawl; an event that would never happen in a game involving the canucks (at least not at puck drop).

I think aside from fighters we are near as any team to guys that can keep up the required physicality of the playoffs.....Its the consistency of it that we need.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#12 Grapefruits

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

Canucks lost to the Bruins because they were injured, not intimidated. If Hamhuis didn't get hurt in game 2, it would've been a different series. Teams win through offensive depth, not only grit.


Tell Luongo that. You could tell he was intimidated as hell in Boston.
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#13 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

Our forwards really haven't changed at all but I don't think that was our main problem - it was on defence and MG did a fantastic job of shoring that up. Garrison, Vandemeer and even Barker can all be very physical guys which is what you need in the playoffs - big bodies on defence that grind down the forwards and punish them into the boards every single shift so that over a 7 game series they're broken down and can't score anymore.

That's how Boston beat us - they didn't have that many big forwards actually. L.A beat teams with a tenacious forecheck and big forwards grinding down the players. Doesn't matter who does
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#14 bluesman60

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

I don't think that we are tough enough once the playoffs start or when we play a big close checking team during the regular games. This has to be a concern going into a shortened season where there is no room for a night off because you can make up the points against a weaker team. Every single game this year will be like the homestretch and preparing for the playoffs.
We need a big forward with hands to play with the Sedins. So far Kassian has not demonstrated that he has the hands to warrant a top 6 spot. He may after he gains experience but this shortened season does not allow the time to gain that experience....each game is too important. That is why Schroeder is back in Chicago (besides not having to have him clear waivers).... because he has to dominate at that level before he can be expected to grab a top 6 in the NHL.
Hopefully the right players come Vancouver's way in a Luongo trade....but we are going to have to be patient until the right offer is presented.
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#15 wshdrvvn

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:29 PM

we have new toughness through out the line up and in depth. so to answer your question, on paper, yes. Also i don't think toughness or grit was the issue against LA. Our guys were running around quite a bit the first few games and got torched because of it. hopefully the new guys can take on the physicality and leave our prominent offensive guys to do their jobs. so i supose we'll just "wait & see".
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#16 Canouver

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

LA beat them up???

im pretty sure your confusing beat , with beat up , boston forsure beat us up

but la just scored goals ,

terrible thread , will not return

ya you will.
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#17 TmanVan

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

I don't think toughness wins Stanley Cup. Just look at Detroit.

Besides, we do have some tough players on this team.


True, look at detroit.... but at the same time look at Boston, Anaheim, Chicago, and LA. It's not about gooning it up, its about physically dominating the opponent and grinding them down until they have no will to compete.

As "tough" as some people think our team is overall, they are still simply no match for the likes of Dustin Brown, Zdeno Chara, Milan Lucic, Anze Kopitar, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Dustin Byfuglien, Andrew Ladd, Chris Pronger etc. Even pests like Dave Bolland and Brad Marchand completely threw the Canucks off their game.

Again, its not about some 4th line plug coming in and intimidating everybody, its a whole team thing. I know people will defend the Sedins to the death, and they do put up points in the playoffs, but when the oppostion's coach says enough of those damn swedes shut them down, they do get shut down..... and its in the playoffs when the whistle gets put away.

Zack Kassian can help in this situation, as he would drop the gloves with a Marchand or Bolland as soon as they got out of hand, and of course he could then handle the reprocussions of someone like Lucic or Ladd coming back after him. I just hope the canucks don't completely destroy what he has and turn the pittbull in him into a crapzu. They need to just accept what he is and not push the whole vegan/yoga/hippy/weightloss/super discipline/no fighting Vancouver philosophy on him. lol

Edited by TmanVan, 18 January 2013 - 09:48 PM.

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#18 RyanKeslord17

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:47 PM

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We don't have to be fracking "tough" to win the cup. Just play with some heart and passion and with some balls. That's it.

I am very confident this group can do just that.

Edited by RyanKeslord17, 18 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.

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#19 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

Just play with some heart and passion and with some balls. That's it.


Reminds me of 1994 Canucks.
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#20 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

Players need to be disciplined, but not take crap. We were outsized by Boston and LA, but we can out-hit both of them no problem. Injuries are more likely though.

When we had Torres, we KILLED EVERYONE. Smashed the Hawks, Preds, Sharks and Bos. Every highlight reel hit from that run, was ours.
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#21 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

We have enough toughness and size if the players we have use that ability.

1. Addition of Vandermeer was huge in my mind. He is a tough SOB who will answer the bell with anyone and can play. He'll see alot of time in the playoffs if we come up against teams trying to goon it up.

2. Kassian. He knows his role. He knows the coaching staff doesn;t care if he scores but want him to a) use his speed to get in a hit/pound dmen B) protect / come to the aid of his teammates if necessary, not to goon but be a threat c) protect the puck, play well in the corners, and play responsibly defensively. Pts are gravy, he knows this and if he delivers well he is going to be a problem for most teams. As much as I love burr on the first line, this is why I want him there, play that game and he'll open up even more room for the sedins (ie play the role Bert did for Nazzy)...

3. Garrison is a big kid. He can play any game you want, he's got size

4. Beiksa can bring more physically

5. Edler is a great hitter and needs to bring that part back into his game, little Ohlund can hit like Big Ohlund and can add that facet more consistently

6. Weise and Volpatti- MUST do their jobs and Weiss needs to understand his role - hit hit hit...

We are not small and won't be pushed around. Part of that was coaching and discipline in the playoffs vs Boston. Nucks expected the refs to do their jobs, they didn't

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 18 January 2013 - 10:16 PM.

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#22 disisdayear

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

Our forwards really haven't changed at all but I don't think that was our main problem - it was on defence and MG did a fantastic job of shoring that up. Garrison, Vandemeer and even Barker can all be very physical guys which is what you need in the playoffs - big bodies on defence that grind down the forwards and punish them into the boards every single shift so that over a 7 game series they're broken down and can't score anymore.

That's how Boston beat us - they didn't have that many big forwards actually. L.A beat teams with a tenacious forecheck and big forwards grinding down the players. Doesn't matter who does


Are you kidding me? You don't think the play of the forwards were the issue in the playoffs last season? 8 goals in five games vs. the LA Kings clearly tells a different story. With Daniel out, primary scoring was lacking, as was our secondary scoring. When the Canucks powerplay started to shoot blanks in the second half of the season, you knew we were in for a long haul.

Defense and goaltending are the strengths of our club, and you're right with your assessment that we have grittier guys on the back end, but it looks like the only change will be Garrison in and Salo out. Barker has size, but when has he really consistently shown he's a tough guy to play against? Don't get me wrong -- I like the signing, but Barker is a big puck moving defenceman, not a big bruiser.

The thing that wins is balance -- a combination of speed, skill, size, and grit at all positions, mixed in with stellar goaltending and a healthy lineup. If all these things are not in place, it makes winning it all that more challenging.

The most balanced team that we've ever had was the 1994 franchise...as good as the Canucks have been in the past four years, we've been missing that balance.

Are the current group of Canucks tough enough? I think we are, but we've shown in the past to have failings with mental toughness, and being outplayed physically, so we'll have to see. I remember being at a game against the Blues last year thinking, man, we're going to get our a$$es handed to us playing against the bigger teams like the Blues, which came to be when we faced the Kings in the playoffs.
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#23 bluesman60

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:56 PM

We have enough toughness and size if the players we have use that ability.

1. Addition of Vandermeer was huge in my mind. He is a tough SOB who will answer the bell with anyone and can play. He'll see alot of time in the playoffs if we come up against teams trying to goon it up.

2. Kassian. He knows his role. He knows the coaching staff doesn;t care if he scores but want him to a) use his speed to get in a hit/pound dmen B) protect / come to the aid of his teammates if necessary, not to goon but be a threat c) protect the puck, play well in the corners, and play responsibly defensively. Pts are gravy, he knows this and if he delivers well he is going to be a problem for most teams. As much as I love burr on the first line, this is why I want him there, play that game and he'll open up even more room for the sedins (ie play the role Bert did for Nazzy)...

3. Garrison is a big kid. He can play any game you want, he's got size

4. Beiksa can bring more physically

5. Edler is a great hitter and needs to bring that part back into his game, little Ohlund can hit like Big Ohlund and can add that facet more consistently

6. Weise and Volpatti- MUST do their jobs and Weiss needs to understand his role - hit hit hit...

We are not small and won't be pushed around. Part of that was coaching and discipline in the playoffs vs Boston. Nucks expected the refs to do their jobs, they didn't


I agree. Vancouver was under the delusion that the refs would call all the penalties and that they could rely on the PP to win the game. Everyone was supposed to turn the other cheek so that we got a PP.....but hey, that proved to be a flawed stategy. By the end of the playoffs the whole team was super banged up because the opposition took unprecidented liberties. When someone punches a star player in the face, you have to make him pay the price and then kill the penalty. Our tough guys on the bench when the liberty is taken so that means that each line has to answer the bell for themselves.
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#24 Rypien37

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:06 PM

I don't think toughness wins Stanley Cup. Just look at Detroit.

Besides, we do have some tough players on this team.


LOL at people using that argument. That is only ONE team with that kind of softness winning them cups.

We are still incredibly soft but I am happy that at least we have 3 legitimately capable fighters in Patti, Vandermeer and Kassian.

And NO Lapierre, Weise and Bieksa are not established fighters.

Weise, with plenty of evidence, is a punching bag against anyone with skill in that department.

Lappy strictly takes on completely non fighters and Bieksa reeaaaaallly picks his spots, has some skill but in no way can take on the heavies.

The top 6 is the problem, and has been for years, no grit....

Edited by Rypien37, 18 January 2013 - 11:12 PM.

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#25 Noheart

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

We made it to game 7 SCF we have a core that can win

Relax
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#26 etsen3

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

We aren't as tough as some other teams, but we are tougher than before. We had an above average amount of fighting majors last year and I'm pretty excited about Jim Vandermeer, he may not play much but if we need him he'll go at it with anyone, and he plays nasty on the ice.

However I don't think toughness is why we lost last year (not that being gritty and tough is a bad thing). The Kings did NOT beat us up, they scored more goals and played defense. You win in the playoffs by being aggressive, physical and playing with balls, not necessarily by fighting. I think we are capable of that, but our skill has to show up as well.
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#27 Understand

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

Lets sign Mike Tyson. Goon it up.


I like watching exciting hockey, not a bunch of meatheads giving each other concussions.


You mean you like watching European hockey league where fighting does not exist?
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#28 Understand

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

Reminds me of 1994 Canucks.


The 1994 team was BIG & TOUGH.
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#29 CookieCrumbs

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:53 PM

No actually, we're not.
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#30 Sugar baby watermelon

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

In the playoffs, when Edler throws around his weight, it intimidates the other team, but he only seems to do that once every four games or so..... I'd like to see Kassian do that, hitting can be a little bit of an art form though, it's all about the timing and Eddie has that, not too sure about some others, Ballard is pretty good at the hipcheck, instead of that though, why not go for the full body hit
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