[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0

[theminister]

To be fair, I don't know that people saw this coming, and the play of Schroeder has alleviated a lot of pressure in our centre depth. Manny's faceoff numbers are irreplaceable, but Kesler coming back will help for sure. that said, we need some improvment from Henrik, Lapierre and Schroeder in their faceoffs if we don't want that to be an issue or be forced to use Kesler more for defensive zone draws.

I'm not entirely sold we have to get a top faceoff, 3rd line type center back in a Luongo deal just for the sake of it or at the expense of something else we might benefit more from.

[smurf47]

No, I have said numerous times Luongo has made Schneider get better. And I have been saying that if and once Luongo is gone, Schneider won't have anyone to measure himself against, thereby slowing down as time goes on.

But cute...

[oldnews]

I think it was pretty predictable that we couldn't rely on what we had. That's why we were talking about it so much. It could have happened in Game 1 of Round 1 too and it would be even worse. This is why a few of us are recommending depth acquisitions, goalie trade or not, and that a dependable two-way centre who is good in the dot is still needed as insurance.

Fair enough.... I'm not stuck on who or how we get someone but I have not been happy with our 4th line for 3 years. I'd be very disappointed if that wasn't addressed this year.

[oldnews]

lol typical cdcer just cant admit he is wrong, will twist what i said he said she said to make himself sound right..you are right. Yeah we dont need help up front, especially when our forwards are injured, and yea Gillis is not at ALL showcasing Lu. Happy?

[Canuck Surfer]

Having scrapped with you earlier on other issues; this post is IMO the epitome of exactly where we stand right now at centre ice.

Knock on wood; Hank has also not been injured, in what 10 years?

Couldn't agree more, and at this point, with Manny out for the season, I'd love to see a couple of players like Goc and Steckel added (I know it's not simply that easy to acquire centers, but those two seem reasonable depth targets who'd fit nicely imo) - which is not to say I don't have high regards for Schroeder and Lapierre, but I'd love to keep the option of Lappy on the wing to a strong faceoff guy like Steckel, and the same where Schroeder is concerned. If someone like Kesler were to suffer a re-injury, there's the potential to win without him, whereas as the Canucks stand now, another injury would force AV to use both Schroeder and Ebbett as half the Canucks roster up the middle (and really no one else near ready in the system) - who could be comfortable with that?

[oldnews]

Sociological question here - what motivates people to post spam commentary in the news thread?

Is there pleasure in this that the rest of us should know about?

[RockNroLLa.]

HONK HONK?

[Canuck Surfer]

In that top 5 > you have four left side D, 1 right side D, 1 right handed shot and NO puck rushing D. Ballard has a few go's at it, but it's not the same as having Pietrangelo, Letang, Yandle. Absolutely its great having accumulated all the talent we have on D; but if (perhaps with Lou, perhaps independently) we traded one of those left side D...

If we trade Ballard for Orlov you still have ridiculous wealth on the left side better right; (trade directly or indirectly)

Hamhuis/Bieksa

Edler/Tanev

Garrison/Orlov

Orlov is roughly a 210 lb right handed shot with substantially more upside and physical ability than Tanev. No he won't be as game ready or steady; so Tanev can take the Top 4 role but we can inject him if physical matches dictate and let him develop. So lets call the portion of a trade Orlov for Ballard = fair value as Ballard is going to contribute more now, Orlov has the potential and a lower cap hit.

Then we ask for MoJo / Forsberg for Lou. When they squawk (if its a big ask) settle for either a 2013 1st or a simpler Lou for Johansen and Orlov deal, perhaps a 2knd to close. This also is pretty close to fair value IMO.

Forsberg and Brouwer is a pretty good alternate also good value offer which could help us. I don't think they would go for it, cuz they need Brouwer, but its good value.

Getting back to the puck rushing D; How about

Lou / Ballard for Mike Green/Johansen and (again start with) asking for Forsberg and see if they give us enough to make the deal. This looks deadly;

Edler/Green

Hamhuis/Bieksa

Garrison/Tanev

Add to it Johansen for C depth and upside and a prospect / pick and our line up looks smashing.

Lots of ways to make a deal with Washington that help both clubs. And yes a right handed big D in Orlov makes perfect sense!

You want Orlov, a somewhat unproven, struggling and injured D-man when we have our top 4 locked up for 3+ years, and our number 5 locked in as Tanev, with Connoughton playing well with Tanev and potentially ready to make the jump to the NHL (along with Barker, Vandermeer, Alberts...) Value is wasted somwhere here, because Orlov wouldn't be top 4 on this team.

Hamrlik, a guy there's no way we'd re-sign, and literally has the turning radius of a freight train on rails that don't go where he needs to be. Least mobile defenseman this side of Chara. OK so we can put him as #6 now and then not have that value next year.

A first next year, which means another year removed from being NHL ready when this year is known to be a stacked draft year

A pick leaving us from when? this year? that'd be depressing

Brouwer with a RIDICULOUS contract. He's a guy who is what we have already... with Kassian, Kesler, Lapierre, Schroeder, Hansen, we're not short of right handed shots. He is a bowling ball with a wrist shot. We have physicality, and Hansen, Kassian, Lapierre, Schroeder, Higgins, Kesler, Raymond, both Sedins and Burrows all have more hockey sense than him. Booth would be the only comparable, but Booth is faster with more upside, and Brouwer isn't cheap enough to be worth the cap savings. Also, the wingers he'd be taking time from all have caps $1.5m-$2.7m lower than his.

Tom WIlson. A 200lb 6-4 prospet with D potential according to hockey's future - AKA a project. "What remains to be seen is whether the big winger can develop his offensive skills – it will be the difference between Wilson being a top 6 forward or a 4th-line energy player." Unlike Kassian (B potential), he DOESN'T naturally have the same hockey sense/offensive skillset. Maybe he ends up being another Brouwer... But he may end up just being a 4th liner. 12 goals in 77 OHL games is pretty bad, and thats JUNIOR hockey. Sure he gets lots of PIMS, but I think we've addressed our toughness enough.

And to get that AMAZING return, you want to give up a fast moving defense-man with chemistry and who has already adapted to our system, Higgins or Raymond(who are both better skaters than anything coming back), a pick presumably this year, and a gold medal SCF perrenial elite goalie(the best and most proven Goalie available now and in the foreseeable future).

So rather than ranting and raving like a middle school girlfriend, come to grips with the fact that is horrible return on our biggest trade-able asset

regards,

that's just silly you SILLY GOOSE

[RockNroLLa.]

Has Gillis cut a short term deal to react to injuries? I don't agree with you that that is a necessary or intelligent way to go about building your team. Gillis himself has said many times that neither he nor other GMs make decisions on that basis, going so far as to say the Reimer injury will not dictate what Nonis does. The Canucks certainly have far, far less "need" for help up front than the Leafs do between the pipes, and yet listen to his perspective on their situation.

Was Columbus 'showcasing' Nash before their deal, or did every GM in the NHL already know what they were getting with Nash, and Columbus was simply playing their marquis player as they normally would?

[Smashian Kassian]

You want Orlov, a somewhat unproven, struggling and injured D-man when we have our top 4 locked up for 3+ years, and our number 5 locked in as Tanev, with Connoughton playing well with Tanev and potentially ready to make the jump to the NHL (along with Barker, Vandermeer, Alberts...) Value is wasted somwhere here, because Orlov wouldn't be top 4 on this team.

Hamrlik, a guy there's no way we'd re-sign, and literally has the turning radius of a freight train on rails that don't go where he needs to be. Least mobile defenseman this side of Chara. OK so we can put him as #6 now and then not have that value next year.

A first next year, which means another year removed from being NHL ready when this year is known to be a stacked draft year

A pick leaving us from when? this year? that'd be depressing

Brouwer with a RIDICULOUS contract. He's a guy who is what we have already... with Kassian, Kesler, Lapierre, Schroeder, Hansen, we're not short of right handed shots. He is a bowling ball with a wrist shot. We have physicality, and Hansen, Kassian, Lapierre, Schroeder, Higgins, Kesler, Raymond, both Sedins and Burrows all have more hockey sense than him. Booth would be the only comparable, but Booth is faster with more upside, and Brouwer isn't cheap enough to be worth the cap savings. Also, the wingers he'd be taking time from all have caps $1.5m-$2.7m lower than his.

Tom WIlson. A 200lb 6-4 prospet with D potential according to hockey's future - AKA a project. "What remains to be seen is whether the big winger can develop his offensive skills – it will be the difference between Wilson being a top 6 forward or a 4th-line energy player." Unlike Kassian (B potential), he DOESN'T naturally have the same hockey sense/offensive skillset. Maybe he ends up being another Brouwer... But he may end up just being a 4th liner. 12 goals in 77 OHL games is pretty bad, and thats JUNIOR hockey. Sure he gets lots of PIMS, but I think we've addressed our toughness enough.

And to get that AMAZING return, you want to give up a fast moving defense-man with chemistry and who has already adapted to our system, Higgins or Raymond(who are both better skaters than anything coming back), a pick presumably this year, and a gold medal SCF perrenial elite goalie(the best and most proven Goalie available now and in the foreseeable future).

So rather than ranting and raving like a middle school girlfriend, come to grips with the fact that is horrible return on our biggest trade-able asset

regards,

that's just silly you SILLY GOOSE

[Smashian Kassian]

Biggest improvement I see in him is his hockey sense and passing. Last year he would skate as fast as he could and make a sick move around a guy and then instead of dishing the puck out to kes or booth, he would try to beat another defender and lose the puck or awkwardly give it to our defenseman.

I think part of the problem last year was all 3 guys were coming back from injury so instead of finding line chemistry, they were all trying to get their own games going. Starting the year healthy with Schroeder has really helped him.

[Merci]

Brouwer with his 7th

Luongo

Raymond

Brouwer

Nuervith

Orlov

[Smashian Kassian]

Brouwer with his 7th

Luongo

Raymond

Brouwer

Nuervith

Orlov

[Italia2006]

I'd like to know if the Canucks have any scouts at the Lightning vs Caps game? You would have to think Yzerman is feeling some sort of pressure.

[RockNroLLa.]

Having scrapped with you earlier on other issues; this post is IMO the epitome of exactly where we stand right now at centre ice.

Knock on wood; Hank has also not been injured, in what 10 years?

[canucksnihilist]

I don't know... I'd be happy with a star player coming back, who can pot some goals. Or a bunch of really good prospects who could be better than a lot of our established players.

I'm not sold on getting a 3rd line center... I don't think we are desperate for any particular piece right now (with Schroeder showing he can play, and Kassian: both injecting youth into the lineup).

A star sniper of some sort, or fill the prospect pool with legitimate star prospects. For the SC this year, it would be a star sniper, but I get the feeling it isn't going to happen. I think we can win without making a deal this season...

[RockNroLLa.]

I don't know... I'd be happy with a star player coming back, who can pot some goals. Or a bunch of really good prospects who could be better than a lot of our established players.

I'm not sold on getting a 3rd line center... I don't think we are desperate for any particular piece right now (with Schroeder showing he can play, and Kassian: both injecting youth into the lineup).

A star sniper of some sort, or fill the prospect pool with legitimate star prospects. For the SC this year, it would be a star sniper, but I get the feeling it isn't going to happen. I think we can win without making a deal this season...

[Smashian Kassian]

I agree with you 2.

Edit: Although we do need a LH bottom 6 center that can take important draws now that Manny is gone.

[Gollumpus]

I agree we don't need Brouwer. But you are off the mark on Orlov/Hamrlik.

Orlov is a MAJOR upgrade on Connaution and it's not even close. Connaution has struggled big time this season, I still have hope but I am no to comfortable honestly with him being penciled in.

Orlov would be a better guy for that role alongside Tanev.

And Hamrlik is the last thing we need, Hamrlik would only be beneficial this year, and he has no place on this team. Terrible idea.

[canuckfan85]

another laugher by holtby- aside from one nice glove save, he like a solid AHL goalie- could not track the puck , a step behind the play most of the night.

all 3 goals were laughers, he had no clue what he was doing.

1.I am baffled that McPhee thinks that his core group is ok with tis kind of goaltending.

2. Why do they even bother playing Holtby so much?? Neuvirth isnt great but he sucks far less

3.I reccomend at least watching the highlights- some of the goals these guys manage to let in a HILARIOUS- honestly-it is a real treat as you do not get to see such poor goaltending at this level.

Amazing