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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#631 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

You do realize that the Canucks have won just as many Stanley Cups as the Leafs since 1969.

You do realize that the Canucks have had more city riots since that time.............................what exactly are you trying to prove?


lol...proving our points for us there 'bud'

9 years thats all i have to say 9 friggen years! hahahahahahha

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 27 January 2013 - 02:52 PM.

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#632 oldnews

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

Playing right now as in he has been invisible.

I hate to say it because I love him too but Higgins is very \a little overrated on these boards.

One of the few guys that can do nothing and get a free pass.


Easy now.
18, 25, 43, +11 last year while 1/100th off of facing the strongest quality of competition on the Canucks last year, while getting only 46% offensive zone starts, playing third line minutes with a rookie center, and still managing a positive relative corsi on a deep President's team.
If he's rated highly on these boards, it's because he's an outstanding two way hockey player who has been an absolute steal for the Canucks.
A few games without a point amidst a team shaking off rust and shuffling the lines nightly is all it takes to earn the tag 'invisible'?

Edited by oldnews, 27 January 2013 - 02:56 PM.

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#633 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

Playing right now as in he has been invisible.

I hate to say it because I love him too but Higgins is very \a little overrated on these boards.

One of the few guys that can do nothing and get a free pass.


Higgins (while he isn't scoring) is still a pretty important piece of the playoff puzzle..he's got speed, a good two way player, can play any style and tends to be able to fight through checks. He can slot up and down the line up so is important if players go down in the playoffs..

I actually think you're not giving him enough credit for what his role is. Don't forget every player has a role on the Nucks. I actually like how he can slide up and down the lines better than Hansen. I love Hansen but think he is a GREAT third liner and belongs there, he doesn't belong on the second or first.

Whereas, while Higgins isn't a great third liner, he's a GOOD 2/3 and can play four if he has too...so he's valuable.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 27 January 2013 - 02:57 PM.

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#634 higgyfan

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:58 PM

Playing right now as in he has been invisible.

I hate to say it because I love him too but Higgins is very \a little overrated on these boards.

One of the few guys that can do nothing and get a free pass.


Higgins isn't bad for the cap hit. He's been a little injury prone over the past few years, but his point totals are usually .5pg. He gave us 18 goals in 71 games last year and he never hurts us defensively. He's had a slow start so far, but it's only been 4 games.
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#635 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

Higgins isn't bad for the cap hit. He's been a little injury prone over the past few years, but his point totals are usually .5pg. He gave us 18 goals in 71 games last year and he never hurts us defensively. He's had a slow start so far, but it's only been 4 games.


I agree, I mean I like the guy myself, brings a bit of everything you need.

But the point of my trade was if he doesn't return to last years form and people continue to play better than him, moving him for Clutterbuck aswell as a prospect that fits our pool very nicely might be in our best interest, it would be making the most of an asset for us.
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#636 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

Higgins (while he isn't scoring) is still a pretty important piece of the playoff puzzle..he's got speed, a good two way player, can play any style and tends to be able to fight through checks. He can slot up and down the line up so is important if players go down in the playoffs..

I actually think you're not giving him enough credit for what his role is. Don't forget every player has a role on the Nucks. I actually like how he can slide up and down the lines better than Hansen. I love Hansen but think he is a GREAT third liner and belongs there, he doesn't belong on the second or first.

Whereas, while Higgins isn't a great third liner, he's a GOOD 2/3 and can play four if he has too...so he's valuable.


Yeah I agree, I like him too, it is just that he isn't doing the things that make him successful, and if it continues moving him for a player like Clutterbuck who brings (as some like Provost say) is what we are missing.

Chris brings a great skillset, but he isn't a guy who is going to score 25+. On this team he is a great 2nd/3rd liner but we do have players like that which are playing better than him, also if you want a coveted player like Clutterbuck you have to give up quality to get quality.
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#637 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

Easy now.
18, 25, 43, +11 last year while 1/100th off of facing the strongest quality of competition on the Canucks last year, while getting only 46% offensive zone starts, playing third line minutes with a rookie center, and still managing a positive relative corsi on a deep President's team.
If he's rated highly on these boards, it's because he's an outstanding two way hockey player who has been an absolute steal for the Canucks.
A few games without a point amidst a team shaking off rust and shuffling the lines nightly is all it takes to earn the tag 'invisible'?


I agree, he was outstanding last year, but my post was refering to this year, and my trade proposal was based on if he doesn't pick it up and if other players in that same role (2nd/3rd liner, Raymond & Hansen) continue to play better then him.

Also you have to give quality to get quality, Clutterbuck is a pretty coveted player for having that gritty edge, along with the skating ability and bringing offense aswell.

Minnesota is in a "win now" mode, they won't accept prospects (unless you want to give up Jensen) for a player like that, you have to give quality to get quality and Clutterbuck (if Higgins doesn't pick it up) would be worth it.

(along with Graovac which also brings incentive to make the move as he and Gaunce have been on a tear together)
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#638 Tangelos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

Quit talking Clutterbuck. Minny has a goalie and a very good one at that. They're not in the market for Luongo nor would Gillis trade within the division.
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#639 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

Quit talking Clutterbuck. Minny has a goalie and a very good one at that. They're not in the market for Luongo nor would Gillis trade within the division.


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#640 Provost

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Quit talking Clutterbuck. Minny has a goalie and a very good one at that. They're not in the market for Luongo nor would Gillis trade within the division.


I was the one that first brought up the name... but my comment was that we need a player "in the mold of Chris Neil/Clutterbuck".

Folks kind of ran with it, I don't actually believe we could get either of those guys as part of a Luongo trade. They are just names that people are relatively familiar with. I am sure there are another half a dozen guys out in the league that can fill the same shoes and we don't really know all that well.
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#641 Tangelos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

I was the one that first brought up the name... but my comment was that we need a player "in the mold of Chris Neil/Clutterbuck".

Folks kind of ran with it, I don't actually believe we could get either of those guys as part of a Luongo trade. They are just names that people are relatively familiar with. I am sure there are another half a dozen guys out in the league that can fill the same shoes and we don't really know all that well.


We had a player in the mold of a Clutterbuck. His name was Raffi, and Gillis was very dumb to no re-sign him.
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#642 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

Quit talking Clutterbuck. Minny has a goalie and a very good one at that. They're not in the market for Luongo nor would Gillis trade within the division.


No one is talking Luongo to Minnesota.

Not sure where they need goaltending with Backstrom, Harding then Hackett and Gustafson in the pipeline.
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#643 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

We had a player in the mold of a Clutterbuck. His name was Raffi, and Gillis was very dumb to no re-sign him.


No one was going to go 2 years at over 1.5 Million to keep Raffi here.

Clutterbuck also brings more offense, isn't as streaky, is better defensively, and is more versatile. Overall just a better player.
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#644 Tangelos

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

Raffi has averaged .401 pts per game throughout his career whereas Clutterbuck has averaged .328 pts per game throughout his career so I'm not exactly sure where you're getting your stats. Probably drew em out of a hat. And 1.5M for a mere 2 years (not 14 like weber, but 2 yrs) is very fair for a 30pt 3rd liner.
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#645 WHL rocks

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

I was the one that first brought up the name... but my comment was that we need a player "in the mold of Chris Neil/Clutterbuck".

Folks kind of ran with it, I don't actually believe we could get either of those guys as part of a Luongo trade. They are just names that people are relatively familiar with. I am sure there are another half a dozen guys out in the league that can fill the same shoes and we don't really know all that well.


I've said many times that we need a guy like Neil. We would pbbly have a SC banner in the rafters if we had a Neil on this team.
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#646 cdubuya

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

Not sure why AV not starting Lu more... Him riding the pine is killing his value. Schneider is playing fine but its not like Lu didnt play well in his 1 start.
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#647 Pears

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

Not sure why AV not starting Lu more... Him riding the pine is killing his value. Schneider is playing fine but its not like Lu didnt play well in his 1 start.

Lu's getting the start tomorrow I'm pretty sure. If he has a good game and gets the W I'm sure his trade value will go up a little.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#648 Jambo

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

Lu's getting the start tomorrow I'm pretty sure. If he has a good game and gets the W I'm sure his trade value will go up a little.


As it has been said before I don't think Lu's trade value will vary much if he plays/not. His CV is clear for all to see and he is a known quantity for potential buyers.

I think what affects his value most is is current form of teams in the league. Performances like tonight don't help our bargaining position. Sub-par goal-keeping in other cities helps us. It's a very fluid and random situation.
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#649 WHL rocks

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:44 PM

Lu's getting the start tomorrow I'm pretty sure. If he has a good game and gets the W I'm sure his trade value will go up a little.


Lu's trade value does not go up or down with 1 game.
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#650 thad

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:00 AM

No way you get clutterbuck without a gross overpayment. He's their unsung hero burrows type player. If you asked for him they would probly ask for burrows coming back actually.
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#651 DeNiro

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:07 AM

Lu's trade value does not go up or down with 1 game.


Yea, I don't know why people think this. Luongo has a proven track record of what he can do in the regular season. Teams know what they're going to get, more or less.

It's his playoff game that people always question him on. Even though he has more playoff wins than any goalie in the league outside Brodeur, Fleury, and Khabibulin.

It's not going to come down to whether he can play well, it's going to come down to how much a team would have to give to get him.

Edited by DeNiro, 28 January 2013 - 12:10 AM.

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#652 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:25 AM

Raffi has averaged .401 pts per game throughout his career whereas Clutterbuck has averaged .328 pts per game throughout his career so I'm not exactly sure where you're getting your stats. Probably drew em out of a hat. And 1.5M for a mere 2 years (not 14 like weber, but 2 yrs) is very fair for a 30pt 3rd liner.


Raffi's PPG is bolstered by his previous 20 and 27 goal seasons when he was in Edmonton, where he was in a top 6 role and was an important part of the offense.

He's not that player anymore, he's a 20-30 point player now. Clutterbuck has better offensive skill and is better defensively, also less streaky and he fights more.

Was a fan of Raffi when he was here, and I still like him but I would take Clutterbuck at 1.4 over Raffi at 1.75 10 times out of 10.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 28 January 2013 - 12:26 AM.

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#653 Tangelos

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

I think we're probably going to end up keeping Luongo for the shorten season, then trade him in the off season to move up in the draft. Because I mean if you look at the team with Kesler and Booth in the lineup, there is really no excuse to not win a cup. If half our d-men stop sucking, we have as good a chance as any. We have some holes on the forward position right now, but I expect MG will just ride it out until Kesler and Booth come back from injury. It'll be an interesting month or so as I don't expect us to be a powerhouse in the west this season. We'll probably be fighting for those last 2 playoff spots at least until we're healthy.
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#654 Tangelos

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:29 AM

Raffi's PPG is bolstered by his previous 20 and 27 goal seasons when he was in Edmonton, where he was in a top 6 role and was an important part of the offense.

He's not that player anymore, he's a 20-30 point player now. Clutterbuck has better offensive skill and is better defensively, also less streaky and he fights more.

Was a fan of Raffi when he was here, and I still like him but I would take Clutterbuck at 1.4 over Raffi at 1.75 10 times out of 10.


You still have no stats to prove his so called "offensive skill", and Raffi fights plenty and has lots of playoff experience.
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#655 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

You still have no stats to prove his so called "offensive skill", and Raffi fights plenty and has lots of playoff experience.


Clutterbuck has scored 19 and 15 goals on Minnesota's 3rd line.

ASSETS: Excels at the hitting game. Is also a true shift disturber. Has excellent drive and determination. Plays a sound defensive game. Is versatile, industrious and gritty. Can also produce some offense in a complementary role.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnzvJ8RtlmI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVumG5sNPso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6yWDaPujP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr1dndaETP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dB48S0Y3xU

No offense to Raffi, but I don't think he has quite the Hands, shot, and poise/patience that Clutterbuck does.

Raffi has some pretty decent offensive skills but can be very streaky, he can score goals in bunches or else you won't see his name on the score sheet for a long time.

Also is a better skater then Raffi, and fights more than Raffi. A better PK option, just overall a more rounded player.

Raffi's playoff experience can be an asset or a huge detractor with the hits he has laid on Seabrook and Hossa.
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#656 LegionOfDoom

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:08 AM

Clutterbuck would be nice but doubt Minnesota is a trading partner but if everyone wants a player that can hit with good 2 way play kulemin would be the piece we need from Toronto to make that trade valuable to us, obviously would need other pieces tho. Don't like the idea of gardiner coming with his concussion problem. Gunnersson has looked good to me this far and as well as grabovski
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#657 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:16 AM

Clutterbuck would be nice but doubt Minnesota is a trading partner but if everyone wants a player that can hit with good 2 way play kulemin would be the piece we need from Toronto to make that trade valuable to us, obviously would need other pieces tho. Don't like the idea of gardiner coming with his concussion problem. Gunnersson has looked good to me this far and as well as grabovski


My proposed deal was Higgins and Connaution for Clutterbuck and Graovac.

It rounds out there top 6 a bit better, and deals a prospect in an area of strength and acquires one in a more weaker area.

I agree on Kulemin, doubt Toronto would be keen on giving him up though, is a pretty big part of their team.
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#658 Pears

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:21 AM

My proposed deal was Higgins and Connaution for Clutterbuck and Graovac.

It rounds out there top 6 a bit better, and deals a prospect in an area of strength and acquires one in a more weaker area.

I agree on Kulemin, doubt Toronto would be keen on giving him up though, is a pretty big part of their team.

I'm a big Higgins fan but if he doesn't score at least once in the next 5 games, how does that deal along with Ballard and a conditional 3rd for Torres sound, and Luongo and Raymond for Weiss and Petrovic sound? 3rd being conditional on whether Raffi re-signs

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Weiss
Burrows - Schroeder - Clutterbuck
Torres - Lapierre - Hansen
Malhotra, Volpatti, Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Vandermeer - Tanev

Schneider
Lack

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 28 January 2013 - 01:26 AM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#659 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

I'm a big Higgins fan but if he doesn't score at least once in the next 5 games, how does that deal along with Ballard and a conditional 3rd for Torres sound, and Luongo and Raymond for Weiss and Petrovic sound? 3rd being conditional on whether Raffi re-signs

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Weiss
Burrows - Schroeder - Clutterbuck
Torres - Lapierre - Hansen
Malhotra, Volpatti, Weise

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Garrison
Vandermeer - Tanev

Schneider
Lack


If we get Torres it would defeat the purpose of going out and getting Clutterbuck IMO, as they bring similar qualities in that physical, grit sense, but Clutterbuck is simply more rounded.

Also wouldn't trade Ballard as he has been our best defensemen, worth more than Torres at the moment IMO. Also wouldn't send Raymond packing, he is also playing very well.

I would make the Minnesota deal I said, which would leave us with:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Clutterbuck/Hansen
Manny - Lappy - Clutterbuck/Hansen

Who ever out of Clutter and Jannik plays/is playing better gets the 3rd spot, although I would think Clutterbuck fits it more as he brings more offense IMO.

Then keep our defense the way it is as all 3 pairs can play 20+ minutes, and that will be a major advantage for us in the playoffs.
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#660 Pears

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:39 AM

If we get Torres it would defeat the purpose of going out and getting Clutterbuck IMO, as they bring similar qualities in that physical, grit sense, but Clutterbuck is simply more rounded.

Also wouldn't trade Ballard as he has been our best defensemen, worth more than Torres at the moment IMO. Also wouldn't send Raymond packing, he is also playing very well.

I would make the Minnesota deal I said, which would leave us with:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Burrows
Raymond - Schroeder - Clutterbuck/Hansen
Manny - Lappy - Clutterbuck/Hansen

Who ever out of Clutter and Jannik plays/is playing better gets the 3rd spot, although I would think Clutterbuck fits it more as he brings more offense IMO.

Then keep our defense the way it is as all 3 pairs can play 20+ minutes, and that will be a major advantage for us in the playoffs.

Fair enough. I've just been thinking for a while that it would be a good idea to re-unite that Torres - Lapierre - Hansen line that was amazing in 2011. And remember they were our third line then, now they would be our fourth line. Talk about depth.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it





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