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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#931 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

One of the few TO proposals that should interest MG. Old News was talking about Frattin quite awhile ago. Schroeder has shown enough that the pressure at center might be less depending on Kesler's ETA.

Panthers: Talk of financial problems don't go away. Does that force them into a weak non-hockey deal for Lui realizing his possible appeal in that market? From Van's perspective the need is a top 6 to help the 2nd line. Booth hasn't really proven anything yet. Kassian's play might make Burrows the answer to the LW on the 2nd.

Islanders: I was questioning this option until I watched their game against Pitt. It looks like the Isles are ready to step out. Their owner is hands on and who knows what he would OK. Lui might look good especially moving into a new arena. Very possible deal.

Philly: They have been winning but Brys is a nutbar. Money has never been an issue and if CAP space can be had I would think they would be interested.

Wash: All sorts of issues in Washington. The biggest is what Ovy is not doing, scoring. Their ownership is also pro=active and who knows who has his ear. Oates is very respected and I suspect he will have a clear idea of what he has by game 15 -20. Their CUP timeline is is pretty much now just like the Canucks. There should be a match there.


Yeah with Kadri no longer avaliable it seems, Frattin IMO is the next best thing to target and we could probably get more aswell, his style fits our team actually quite well aswell (like I said)
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#932 The Bookie

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

Cam Charron at Canucks Army posted a good piece today arguing that the antiquated concept of starter vs. backup is mainly being preserved by a number of media members who are from a different era of the NHL:

THE CANUCKS DON'T CARE WHO THE NO. 1 GOALIE IS, AND NEITHER DO I

Roberto Luongo is starting for the Vancouver Canucks tonight against Colorado, for the second game in a row, the latest inexplicable move by the milt of a bench boss who seems determined to keep this goalie controversy active and festering in the minds of his players, players who are performing below their expected ability because of the mental distraction wrought on them by not knowing in the back of their minds who the clear No. 1 goaltender is for this once proud franchise.

Gee, that's a mouthful, and difficult to write without placing my tongue firmly on the part of my keyboard analogous to the cheek, and spewing nonsense out of my mouth. The words are certainly in English, but the thoughts don't make any sense.

Whatever your impressions of Alain Vigneault as a coach, the furthest place you should look for criticism is the starting goaltender he chooses for any given game. Cory Schneider and Roberto Luongo are both starting goalies at the NHL-level. They play on the same team, and as a result, the prescribed "backup" is going to see consecutive games at some point.

I didn't like reporters asking Cory Schneider at the Canucks' mini-camp how he would do as the starting goalie with the pressure of the city on him. The label "Number One" goalie is archaic in an age where there are, at any given moment, about 40 people in the world who could start on a given National Hockey League team.

Certainly, back in the day of many sports commentators or writers, every team had a "Number One". The Chicago Blackhawks had Glenn Hall, the Montreal Canadiens had Jacques Plante, the Toronto Maple Leafs had Johnny Bower. Gump Worsley, Harry Lumley, "Suger" Jim Henry and Al Rollins are other famous names that were classic No. 1 starters. They were familiar names because teams didn't often use backup goaltenders and goaltenders frequently played entire seasons. 29 goalies played every game in the Original Six era. No goalie has done it since, even in the lockout-shortened 1995 season.

The game has evolved, and labelling lines or positions the way we used to "first line" "shutdown defenceman" "enforcer" are positions where the wording stands up to more scrutiny. It's why I avoid sweeping statements like "the first line" when talking about Henrik and Daniel Sedin because that insinuates the implication that is the line that is counted on the most in every situation by Vigneault. It's not, and they didn't even the get the most ice-time per game last season.

If I recall correctly (I can't find the precise quote) I remember Alain Vigneault saying pre-season that Luongo would start three or four times out of every ten games, and they'd probably split the back-to-backs. "Three or four times out of every ten games" is actually a lot of starts: pro-rated over a 48-game season, Schneider would start 29 times and Luongo 19 times. In a 15-week season, that means there will be five weeks where the goalies have an equal number of starts, and ten weeks where Schneider will have one more. It's a small discrepancy that will add up over the course of forty eight games.

Of course, there will be lots of mis-guided discussion about how the Canucks are handling their goalies because there isn't a clear No. 1. People keep asking Vigneault who the starter is, and he keeps vaguely replying with the truth—he has two good goaltenders, and Luongo is the starter tonight.

There's a built-in narrative that Schneider was feeling Luongo at his heels, which was why he struggled in the opening game of the season against Anaheim. He responded by playing well in his next two starts against Calgary and Anaheim, apparently having gotten over the bug of Luongo being traded. Last season, Luongo had his second best era-adjusted even strength save percentage of his career, and the best of his Canucks' career, even with Schneider nipping at his heels. Canucks' goalies have a .934 save rate this season and had a .929 last season. The St. Louis Blues, who wound up at the top of every goaltending category there is, had a 1A and 1B system with Jaroslav Halak and Brian Elliott.

Luongo makes saves and will start a lot of games this season. Schneider makes saves and will start a lot of games this season, but probably a few more than Luongo. Sometimes a team with a goalie controversy is just a team with two good goalies.


Personally I'm starting to lean away from thinking we'll see a trade anytime soon. I don't know if Gillis' Big Quote about the mystery team had any truth behind it, but if it did I've been wondering if they maybe have a potential off-season trade already planned out with another team. eg. Philly or NYI buying out Bryz/DiPietro, Detroit replacing Howard when his contract is up, or the Devils replacing Brodeur when he retires. But what do I know.
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#933 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

McKenzie said there is absolutely zero interest on Washington's part.

With the new draft lottery system, teams cannot simply tank and expect a top 3 pick so you'd think Tallon would have to be interested. Tallon could also get a nice piece back for Markstrom. Bjustad please.

TO is interested but it doesn't sound like they want to give up anything or that Lu wants to go there.

Best bet is Florida, but Tallon needs to realize his goaltending is terrible. Worst goals against in the league.


Where did he say this? Link?

If you look at the way they are struggling it is easy to tell the goaltending they are getting won't cut it. And they aren't going to go after another unproven guy like Bishop or Bernier, they have that in Holtby and Neuvirth. They will want a veteran guy? Who else is out there that is at Lu's caliber?

If Washington continues to falter like this, you have to think they are in, wouldn't surprise me if they have started poking around already.
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#934 MJDDawg

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

If you ask me, it's because Chicago has historically given Lou problems, while Schneider doesn't seem to get rattled as easily by certain match-ups.

Case in point: The Chicago and Boston starts that CS got last season, even though he was the back-up.


This makes so much sense.

If you think about it, other than sending the Vancouver sports media hacks into a frenzy, Lui getting the start mid-week against the Avalanche won't be a big deal back East, especially given the time difference.

But Lui starting a Friday night game against the hated Chicago Blackhawks, with all that recent playoff history, would be very high profile in the centre of the universe and would get a lot of play league wide.

It's a double-edged sword...if Lui played great against the Hawks, Gillis is popping champagne bottles...if though Lui somehow crapped the bed, then those bags of pucks Gillis is being offered start to look pretty good.
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#935 Tangelos

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

This thread is at an all time low. Too many of you overvalue Canuck players. It's really hard to read, and my face is red with all the face palms I've done. So... Screw you guys, I'm going home.
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#936 Garrison

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

I thought A.V. said he would play the hot goaltender. Lu played pretty well against L.A. so he gets the start? In no way has he won his starting job back. You are simply deceiving yourself if you think that.
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#937 eretz canucks

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

And who the hell is going to want to go to a Panthers game? Lu will get people to the arena and Bjugstad won't do anything for the Panthers for a few more years when he becomes a star.
Panther's ownership will be all over Tallon if they believe Luongo will help sell tickets.


I find it laughable they Tallon won't part with a college player for an all star netminder who ACTUALLY WANTS TO PLAY IN FLORIDA- the guy is a joke. Luongo would instantly inject excitement into that franchise. Not to mention he would play his G D heart out for them. Tallon doesn't get it.

Edited by eretz canucks, 30 January 2013 - 04:44 PM.

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#938 HUFFY

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

I thought A.V. said he would play the hot goaltender. Lu played pretty well against L.A. so he gets the start? In no way has he won his starting job back. You are simply deceiving yourself if you think that.


ya I have to agree. Way to go AV, way to show confidence in Cory!! Wonder when he'll demand a trade!!??........
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#939 Edlerberry

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

Tallon signed Campbell to a $7.1m contract
Tallon signed a man who's never hit 30 points Bergenheim to a $2.75m/y contract for 4 years
Tallon signed a man with 37 career goals Kopecky to a $3m/y contract for 4 years
Tallon signed a man who hit 34 points ONCE Upshall to a $3m/y contract to a $3.5m/y contract for 4 years

Yeah I dont think Tallon thinks the same way the rest of the hockey world does.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#940 Edlerberry

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

ya I have to agree. Way to go AV, way to show confidence in Cory!! Wonder when he'll demand a trade!!??........


Cory just got a $12m contract, pretty sure he's ok with the situation.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#941 Provost

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

I don't see starting Luongo again as anything normal at all.

My guess is either Schneider has a little bit of a groin pull (though they would probably say if he did to quell the controversy)... or a Luongo trade is fairly imminent and a partner wants to see him between the pipes a little more before pulling the trigger.

Of course, I was 100% wrong when I thought that Schneider would get the start after being bombarded after the first game. I thought they would get him back on the horse right away.

A third possible option is that Luongo is a little antsy with sitting around and is only willing to play ball and not demand a trade as long as he is getting decent ice time as well.
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#942 Italia2006

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:31 PM

I find it laughable they Tallon won't part with a college player for an all star netminder who ACTUALLY WANTS TO PLAY IN FLORIDA- the guy is a joke. Luongo would instantly inject excitement into that franchise. Not to mention he would play his G D heart out for them. Tallon doesn't get it.

Agree. That's why the ownership group will need to put heat on Tallon. He's not in Chicago where you can have patients. Time is not on the Panthers side especially after this stupid lock out Tik Tok Tik Tok.
They have a ton of good young talent, so realistically it won't kill them to give us a couple of them with in reason.
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#943 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:48 PM

Luongo has officially won his starting job back. We now officially has a 26 year old, 4 mil cap hit backup in cory schneider. Congrats Lu on winning what was yours to begin with.

GM's - please start scrapping your proposals for lu and start making new ones for Schneider


:lol: :picard:

In what world does starting two straight games mean Luongo has won the starting job back? Terrible logic.


No actually Mullet your wrong. His logic is pure gold.

Infact by his logic, Schneider would have won the starters job long before the playoffs.

Remember when Schneids started like 5 games in a row last year? I guess Schneider has been the starter ever since :bigblush:
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#944 Pears

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

:lol: :picard:



No actually Mullet your wrong. His logic is pure gold.

Infact by his logic, Schneider would have won the starters job long before the playoffs.

Remember when Schneids started like 5 games in a row last year? I guess Schneider has been the starter ever since :bigblush:

And when he started 3 straight games in the playoffs? :bigblush:
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#945 elvis15

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:51 PM

This thread is at an all time low. Too many of you overvalue Canuck players. It's really hard to read, and my face is red with all the face palms I've done. So... Screw you guys, I'm going home.

OK, see ya!

I find it laughable they Tallon won't part with a college player for an all star netminder who ACTUALLY WANTS TO PLAY IN FLORIDA- the guy is a joke. Luongo would instantly inject excitement into that franchise. Not to mention he would play his G D heart out for them. Tallon doesn't get it.

Well, there's something to be said for not mortgaging the future just so you can get better now - especially in a cash poor market Like Florida. Luongo doesn't exactly turn them into Cup favourites as they have other problems and it won't bring in so many fans to make up for the extra salary they'll be paying him.

He will help them win some games though, and the potential for playoffs is even higher. That's extra revenue they'd love, and it should be a goal if they're close enough to achieve it.
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#946 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

Tallon signed Campbell to a $7.1m contract
Tallon signed a man who's never hit 30 points Bergenheim to a $2.75m/y contract for 4 years
Tallon signed a man with 37 career goals Kopecky to a $3m/y contract for 4 years
Tallon signed a man who hit 34 points ONCE Upshall to a $3m/y contract to a $3.5m/y contract for 4 years

Yeah I dont think Tallon thinks the same way the rest of the hockey world does.


Well Florida did need to get to the cap floor, so you can understand why he would sign those guys. Kopecky is someone he was firmillar with, Bergenheim had come off 11 points in 16 playoff games and appeared to be trending upward, and not sure about Upshall, my guess is he liked what he brought and thought in the right situation he could show some of his upside.

Again you can understand why he would sign them when you have to get to the league floor.

Also Campbell has just come off a 62 point season and had 40-45+ points consistently before that, it was still a risk (One personally I might not have done) but you can understand why he did it in hindsight.

I think he is a pretty good GM judging by the way he built the Hawks, and the way he has so far built the Panthers.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 30 January 2013 - 05:55 PM.

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#947 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

And when he started 3 straight games in the playoffs? :bigblush:


I guess that was only further confirmation Schneider was the starter.

Once Luongo starts 5 in a row this year (if he ever does this year) then we can start talking about Lu winning it back.

As far as I am concerned they are a tandem. But Schneider has the edge as he does get the bigger & more important starts.
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#948 Millerdraft

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:22 PM

If it's Florida and say that Tallon wants to wait until they are healthier to gauge where they're at, what if they're completely out of it by then and in a position to draft #1 overall?

Would Seth Jones make Gudbranson slightly more available (even more so since there have already been reports that relationship was strained early on and the suspension might only have exacerbated things)?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#949 sampy

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:23 PM

Where did he say this? Link?

If you look at the way they are struggling it is easy to tell the goaltending they are getting won't cut it. And they aren't going to go after another unproven guy like Bishop or Bernier, they have that in Holtby and Neuvirth. They will want a veteran guy? Who else is out there that is at Lu's caliber?

If Washington continues to falter like this, you have to think they are in, wouldn't surprise me if they have started poking around already.


McKenzie tweeted about it the other day. He said there is zero interest.
I don't know why, their goaltending has been terrible.
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#950 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:33 PM

If it's Florida and say that Tallon wants to wait until they are healthier to gauge where they're at, what if they're completely out of it by then and in a position to draft #1 overall?

Would Seth Jones make Gudbranson slightly more available (even more so since there have already been reports that relationship was strained early on and the suspension might only have exacerbated things)?


I doubt it personally. Tallon loves Gudbranson. He would probably be exstatic he got 2 studs on the back end.

And even if Gudbranson was available due to issues with the club, he would want another young D-man back, not Luongo.
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#951 Millerdraft

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:44 PM

I doubt it personally. Tallon loves Gudbranson. He would probably be exstatic he got 2 studs on the back end.

And even if Gudbranson was available due to issues with the club, he would want another young D-man back, not Luongo.


Yeah, Tallon was pretty stubborn when it came to trading a young Brent Seabrook. I remember those ridiculous Brendan Morrison for Seabrook rumours back in the day but I do think Luongo holds far more value today than Morrison did back then so I don't know.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#952 Nuxin07

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

Tallon signed Campbell to a $7.1m contract
Tallon signed a man who's never hit 30 points Bergenheim to a $2.75m/y contract for 4 years
Tallon signed a man with 37 career goals Kopecky to a $3m/y contract for 4 years
Tallon signed a man who hit 34 points ONCE Upshall to a $3m/y contract to a $3.5m/y contract for 4 years


Yeah I dont think Tallon thinks the same way the rest of the hockey world does.


My guess is MG and DT will eventually compromise, with MG taking one of these guys on to go with Nick Bjugstad and Scott Clemmensen when it is all said and done. Pick your poison but I'd go with Upshall just for some extra jam in the playoffs. Buy him out in the summer if it doesn't work. Ultimately we are going to have to rely on guys who are already here and hopefully that means players like Kesler stop flopping around. Our second line needs to focus on scoring and get offensive production from guys who are actually paid to score goals (Booth, Kes, Burr) I don't see a Top 6 coming back for Lou if Gillis is looking for a strong prospect. I'd also be very happy with Lou for Bjugstad, Upshall and Clemmensen, but my guess is Florida needs to continue to tank a bit more before this happens. The Panthers have to continue to struggle before DT will start feeling some heat from ownership, and hopefully that will lead to both teams reaching an agreement and pulling the trigger.
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"No I don't think we need one designated guy to only come out against a guy who plays 3 minutes a game and watches Pinky & the Brain." - Alain Vigneault

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RIP Luc Bourdon 1987-2008

#953 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:52 PM

Yeah, Tallon was pretty stubborn when it came to trading a young Brent Seabrook. I remember those ridiculous Brendan Morrison for Seabrook rumours back in the day but I do think Luongo holds far more value today than Morrison did back then so I don't know.


I agree Lu certaintly does.

But with the way the NHL is nowadays, I think young players either go for players fresh in there prime, or else for other young players, which is the trend we will start to see IMO.

As young players on ELC's hold ample value.
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#954 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

It's prob a new league ruling from the Commish-DON'T give Gillis too much in ANY deal. This league only wants to promote major US markets. Media writes about our guys as if they're bloody serial killers(see yesterday's hatred from Doughty, Kopitar article). HQ's prob view Cdn markets as a freekin' farm-system(hey, Cdn's will still sell out a last place-finisher)..This partly explains why Gainey & Burke gave such favourable deals to NY/Bos.

Perceive it as you wish, but it seems this collection(BOG, Buttman, Campbell) behave like mafia bosses in a Vegas hotel.

Good luck MG! Stick to your guns.
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#955 oldnews

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

i was wondering the same thing, it seems ridiculous that a 22year old that has never played an NHL game has the same freedom that would take another player 8years of service to get. At the least the team should get some compensation if the player walks like they do if a 1st round pick goes unsigned. ( i assume bjustad would qualify for this) but schultz as a 2nd rounder did not.


This is true. Bjugstad is not in the same situation as Schultz was in two senses - Schultz elected to play an extra season in the BCHL - and Bjugstad being a first round pick means that if he elected to wait and not sign after leaving University, the team receives a compensation pick at the same spot in the draft - the NHL in that instance would create a 2nd 19th overall pick in the first round, awarded to Florida (or whoever has Bjugstad's rights).

Not an issue if they give us Bjugstad and Petrovic, eh oldnews? B)


Yeah, Florida's injuries aren't an issue if they deal prospects, which has been my preference, but the Canucks injuries may have shifted MG's focus a lIttle as well, although that may shift again if Kassian and Schroeder continue to earn minutes. It's generally assumed/reported that Tallon insists on sending some salary back, but his injuries may change that, as well as the possibility that he could deal Weiss if they decide they can't afford him, in which case he'd likely receive younger players in return anyhow.

I wouldn't mind taking one of Florida's roster forwards being maligned in this thread - Upshall imo is a hell of a hockey player - his issue has been injury, which removes his cap hit anyhow (worst case scenario he'd be a solid upgrade to our depth forwards) - or Goc who is returning from injury and is a nice fit imo for the third line. If Goc were acquired Schroeder could still have an opportunity to play on Kesler's RW when he returns, and in either event, another roster center is a good option with Kesler's health uncertainty. I still want Petrovic however... Who knows - the Panthers have so much young talent that Gillis may not be might not be quite so intent on Bjugstad, particularly after drafting Gaunce?

Edited by oldnews, 30 January 2013 - 07:49 PM.

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#956 Noheart

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

He will not be traded

End of thread
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BEASTLY!!!

#957 allkill326

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:52 PM

I think we should make a Schneider Trade thread.
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#958 JimLahey

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:55 PM

I think we should make a Schneider Trade thread.


I think we should make an allkill326 appreciation thread.
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#959 fagin

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

I think we should make a Schneider Trade thread.

....Unfortunately that would make us as dumb as the idiots pumping the derogatory shyte on the trade Luongo threads.

Edited by fagin, 30 January 2013 - 11:55 PM.

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#960 allkill326

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:55 PM

....Unfortunately that would make us as dumb as the idiots pumping the shyte on the trade Luongo threads.


Do you know the meaning of sarcasm and exaggeration, my lad? :rolleyes:
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