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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1111 ccc44

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

not just people on the board its known league wide Wideman's contract is a bad contract especially when you take into account the flames already have another awful contract in Bouwmeester

source please ?
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SHOTS ! SHOTS ! SHOTS !

#1112 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

Frattin has 4 goals, 6 points +2 in 4 games, so if Kadri is not available because he's their young, leading scorer (7 points in 7 games), you'd think the same logic would apply to Frattin - although my opinion is that there is nothing in the Leafs organization too valuable to be on the table. And none of these Leafs proposals are compelling.
The Frattin and a 1st part of that deal would be a nice start, but Finn isn't enough imo.


Yeah I actually saw that afterwards, I was wrong. completely wrong.

But Frattin is a bit different, Kadri made there team and they cleared space for him, Frattin on the other hand was a call up who unexpectedly exploded. Not saying he will drop off but I think it is a hot streak more than anything.

Not sure how much you know about Finn, but on our team he would likely be our 7th or 8th best prospect.

IMO our top 10 prospects/young players right now:

1. Jensen
2. Kassian
3. Tanev
4. Lack
5. Schroeder
6. Gaunce
7. Corrado
8. Connaution
9. Rodin
10. Andersson or Cannata

So as you can see, there seems to be a bit of a drop after #7, Finn would slot in that 7-8 range. Finn is a player with top 4 upside and was projected to go in the first round (I believe 25th overall)

Frattin (Who would also slot in the top 5 or 6)
Then Finn
And then a 1st in a deep draft.

I would like that package.
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#1113 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

source please ?


over 5 Million a year for what, 4 years? Because of one 50+ one season and not much else.

You don't think it's a bad contract?
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#1114 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

When it comes to high level players it's never easy to give up something good to get something good. Risks become magnified with these types of deals. That's not to say the interest is never there, it's just a question of "is it worth the risk to make this trade?"


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#1115 bloodycanuckleheads

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

in order to do that we need to make the playoffs also especially in florida a team that isn't drawing a lot of people luongo will change that right away and could give them sellouts every night


Oh, so Luongo would turn the Panters into a top team overnight, and constantly sell-out the place, would he?

Well, that's easy enough to check, seeing as he was their number 1 goaltender for a long time:

2001: 12 wins in 47 games (attendance 14,679 out of a max. of 19,250)
2002: 16 wins in 58 games (attendance 16,074 out of a max. of 19,250)
2003: 20 wins in 65 games (attendance 15,428 out of a max. of 19,250)
2004: 25 wins in 72 games (attendance 15,936 out of a max. of 19,250)
2006: 35 wins in 75 games (attendance 16,014 out of a max. of 19,250)

The two years before Luongo came to Florida, their avg. attendance was 18,501 and 15,970. So, having Lu didn't help their attendance at all, in fact, it went down. And, their attendance last year was higher than any year Luongo played there.

So, tell me again how getting Luongo will make Florida a perennial playoff contender and sell-out their building every night?...
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Posted 08 October 2008 - 07:41 PM by BloodyCanuckleheads

I could definitely see Grabner going. He seems to have done his best to play his way out the door (and Gillis seems to be the smartest GM we've ever had, so, put two and two together)...

#1116 RockNroLLa.

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

Completely wrong? How? He's still on our team. If he gets traded tonight (or ever) for a package consisting of Braydon Coburn, Sean Couturier, and Wayne Simmonds - oldnews' proposal - or a package consisting of Teddy Purcell, Keith Aulie, and TB's 1st - Gollumpus/Smashian's proposal - I will very happily say that I was wrong. I don't expect that I'll need to do that.

My thoughts on this whole ordeal really haven't changed. Luongo shutting out a jaw-droppingly bad Avalanche team doesn't make me think that GMs around the league are suddenly going to realize what an amazing opportunity they have to acquire him.

To me, Gillis is the guy that's holding a stock that's falling, and all he can do is sit back, hope, and pray that the market will somehow turn around - which typically doesn't happen. I think he's played this wrong and I'd still heavily favor trading Schneider first, especially in light of what has happened to start this season.

:picard:
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#1117 Dragonfruits

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

Luongo is a fan favorite in Florida and i never said they would be contenders i said they would make the playoffs with him Theodore played great last year but that looks to be a 1 great year for Florida with Luongo they will be making the playoffs every year he is there
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#1118 oldnews

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

I think Garth Snow has got to be looking long at hard at Luongo right now.
Nabokov is his starter - approaching 38 and free agency. No indication Dipietro is going to turn it around. A pair of average prospects who aren't doing much to impress. They're only spending 50 million in cap space - almost counterintuitive in a market like New York - yet like it or not he's spending 8 million on goaltending, and that is not likely to change barring a huge Dipietro buyout that they can't afford unless they start winning and generating interest. Does he bite the bullet and spend a couple more on Luongo (relative to Nabokov)?

Nabokov and a package of youth and prospects to Vancouver.
His UFA status allows the Canucks have a backup to Schneider they're committed to only until the end of the season, and then shed his 2.75 million cap. Their youth and prospects (particularly at center) are deep.
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#1119 Millerdraft

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

No, not at all. You can be a defensive specialist, but I think that's pretty rare as it's sort of the prerequisite to being in the NHL at that position (ie - are there any forwards that are referred to as "scoring specialists"?).

Yes, and these one-way forwards are generally called "powerplay specialists" because they can't check 5on5 to save their lives, so the only area they excel in is when there's more room to make plays.

Mitchell's passing abilities were underrated. He also played on the PP for us at times. He's a good overall defenseman. I'd consider a defensive specialist maybe someone like Matt Greene.

I hated the Garrison signing when it happened, and nothing really has changed. Just way too rich. I also hate very strongly losing Salo.


Okay, so the $550k difference between Matt Greene's $2.95m and Willie Mitchell's $3.5m is solid outlet passes. I agree. Now imagine if Willie could score 8-12g a year via a 100-mph slapshot. Should he not be worth an extra $1m for the ability to be one of only 20 defensemen who hit double digits in goals?

Gillis lost Salo because he wanted to give Schultz that spot. By that time Salo probably felt slighted and didn't want the one year deal Gillis offered but you stating that you hate Garrison without watching him closely for more than 10 games speaks volumes. Sometimes you have to keep an open mind and let things play out.

If Garrison goes on to score 8-10g a season and solid defence in 20mins/game icetime over the next few 4-5 seasons, will you admit you were wrong? Or will you be adamant that he was still a bad signing?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#1120 oldnews

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

Hey King! How are those multiple warning signs surrounding Zack Kassian these days?

I'm still looking forward to Calgary winning the Northwest!


Looks like the team King called the worst lineup in NHL history, the one that the Canucks should have been alarmed to beat only 3-0 last night - the Avs - on the second of a back-to-back road games - went in and handed his Northwest champs an embarrassing 6-3 beating at home lol.
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#1121 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

I think Garth Snow has got to be looking long at hard at Luongo right now.
Nabokov is his starter - approaching 38 and free agency. No indication Dipietro is going to turn it around. A pair of average prospects who aren't doing much to impress. They're only spending 50 million in cap space - almost counterintuitive in a market like New York - yet like it or not he's spending 8 million on goaltending, and that is not likely to change barring a huge Dipietro buyout that they can't afford unless they start winning and generating interest. Does he bite the bullet and spend a couple more on Luongo (relative to Nabokov)?

Nabokov and a package of youth and prospects to Vancouver.
His UFA status allows the Canucks have a backup to Schneider they're committed to only until the end of the season, and then shed his 2.75 million cap. Their youth and prospects (particularly at center) are deep.


Nabokov has been playing great, there is really no reason for them to look at Luongo.

Aside from that they won't have 2 huge contracts and we won't take Dipietro's deal.

Also it really doesn't make sense for them to waste young assets on an older goalie when they aren't in "win now" mode quite yet. If anything I would look at picking up a future stud goalie for Niederreiter (if they want to trade him) so they will have a young stud goalie to go along with that nice young core they are building.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 31 January 2013 - 09:51 PM.

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#1122 oldnews

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

Nabokov has been playing great, there is really no reason for them to look at Luongo.

Aside from that they won't have 2 huge contracts and we won't take Dipietro's deal.

Also it really doesn't make sense for them to waste young assets on an older goalie when they aren't in "win now" mode quite yet. If anything I would look at picking up a future stud goalie for Niederreiter (if they want to trade him) so they will have a young stud goalie to go along with that nice young core they are building.


Ok Bobbie Mac.
The Islanders have been winning by scoring - they've put up 4 or more in 5 of 7 games. I wouldn't say Nabokov has been "great" - he's been good enough - the point however is that in the very near future there are unavoidable longer term decisions to be made, which you didn't really touch upon. What young stud do you have in mind?
There are good reasons to look at Luongo - Dipietro's contract doesn't change the fact they'll need a starter, and with that group of young talent, it makes a lot of sense to backstop them with a proven winner who can generate interest in a massive market like New York. You can't sell the future forever in that market.
I think you are shooting too quickly, from the hip, on this one.

Edited by oldnews, 31 January 2013 - 10:07 PM.

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#1123 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

Ok Bobbie Mac.
The Islanders have been winning by scoring - they've put up 4 or more in 5 of 7 games. I wouldn't say Nabokov has been "great" - he's been good enough - the point however is that in the very near future there are unavoidable longer term decisions to be made, which you didn't really touch upon. What young stud do you have in mind?
There are good reasons to look at Luongo - Dipietro's contract doesn't change the fact they'll need a starter, and with that group of young talent, it makes a lot of sense to backstop them with a proven winner who can generate interest in a massive market like New York. You can't sell the future forever in that market.
I think you are shooting too quickly, from the hip, on this one.


Wang won't pay for Dipietro and Luongo. He'd have to find a way to deal with Rick before doing something like that. After Nabokov leaves, Snow will probably just play back-up on his GM salary.
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#1124 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:19 PM

Ok Bobbie Mac.
The Islanders have been winning by scoring - they've put up 4 or more in 5 of 7 games. I wouldn't say Nabokov has been "great" - he's been good enough - the point however is that in the very near future there are unavoidable longer term decisions to be made, which you didn't really touch upon. What young stud do you have in mind?
There are good reasons to look at Luongo - Dipietro's contract doesn't change the fact they'll need a starter, and with that group of young talent, it makes a lot of sense to backstop them with a proven winner who can generate interest in a massive market like New York. You can't sell the future forever in that market.
I think you are shooting too quickly, from the hip, on this one.


Nabokov is 1st in the league in shots against and 2nd in Saves, and he's 4-1-1. And having caught a new NYI games on NHL center ice, he has been very good. Nabokov is fine, providing as good a goaltending as they could ask for.

It just really doesn't make alot of sense for them to make this move now, if they feel like giving up young assets then they could atleast wait for a few years till they are competitive enough that better goaltending would be needed. Not to mention they already have a few good young prospects in Nilsson and Poulin.

Also they won't be able to have both Luongo and Dipietro, and I don't think they can afford to buyout Dipietro. Unfortunately that is a road block unavoidable right now.

And when they are ready to contend how old will Luongo be? Will he be this good at 37-38? They are a-ways away.

When you break it down, the optics of the deal don't really make sense, unless you want to bring Dipietro this way, which I have no interest in doing.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 31 January 2013 - 10:20 PM.

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#1125 oldnews

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:52 PM

Nabokov is 1st in the league in shots against and 2nd in Saves, and he's 4-1-1. And having caught a new NYI games on NHL center ice, he has been very good. Nabokov is fine, providing as good a goaltending as they could ask for.

It just really doesn't make alot of sense for them to make this move now, if they feel like giving up young assets then they could atleast wait for a few years till they are competitive enough that better goaltending would be needed. Not to mention they already have a few good young prospects in Nilsson and Poulin.

Also they won't be able to have both Luongo and Dipietro, and I don't think they can afford to buyout Dipietro. Unfortunately that is a road block unavoidable right now.

And when they are ready to contend how old will Luongo be? Will he be this good at 37-38? They are a-ways away.

When you break it down, the optics of the deal don't really make sense, unless you want to bring Dipietro this way, which I have no interest in doing.


Faced the most shots against? That sounds like Luongo's Panthers calling card - and it doesn't make Nabokov "great" - it means he's facing a lot of shots - and how will that pan out over 48 games in a short span for a 37 year old? His sv% is average - and funny you should call Luongo an "older" goalie when their present starter is a UFA in months and will be 38 at that time.

So you have no interest in Dipietro haha - no one will be interested in Dipietro. The Isles will have to double up on starter salaries regardless- as they already are - (or give up a whack of assets to rid themselves of Dipietro). There is nothing that "makes sense" in their situation. They can put a decision off until the end of the season (as you seem to be suggesting), but undoubtedly they are already well on their way to thinking this one out.

There is no way around it - it's that simple. Saying, 'oh, it doesn't make sense for them to give up assets to get a goaltender' doesn't change anything.

They are going to have to give up to get what they need in (and out of) goal - one way or another.

Edited by oldnews, 31 January 2013 - 10:56 PM.

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#1126 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:03 PM

Faced the most shots against? That sounds like Luongo's Panthers calling card - and it doesn't make Nabokov "great" - it means he's facing a lot of shots - and how will that pan out over 48 games in a short span for a 37 year old? His sv% is average - and funny you should call Luongo an "older" goalie when their present starter is a UFA in months and will be 38 at that time.

So you have no interest in Dipietro haha - no one will be interested in Dipietro. The Isles will have to double up on starter salaries regardless- as they already are - (or give up a whack of assets to rid themselves of Dipietro). There is nothing that "makes sense" in their situation. They can put a decision off until the end of the season (as you seem to be suggesting), but undoubtedly they are already well on their way to thinking this one out.

There is no way around it - it's that simple. Saying, 'oh, it doesn't make sense for them to give up assets to get a goaltender' doesn't change anything.

They are going to have to give up to get what they need in (and out of) goal - one way or another.


Their owner is Wang, not Bell or Aquillini...

Wang will continue to get Snow to sign back-up goalies on small contracts to play tandem with DiPietro... until DiPietro retires or something big happens like Tavares threatening a trade...

Either that or Dipietro has a reawakening and begins to play like a 1st overall pick, but either way it'll be RD and a goalie on a small contract who they hope can play well or has shown potential to (Nabby, Montoya, etc)...
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#1127 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

Faced the most shots against? That sounds like Luongo's Panthers calling card - and it doesn't make Nabokov "great" - it means he's facing a lot of shots - and how will that pan out over 48 games in a short span for a 37 year old? His sv% is average - and funny you should call Luongo an "older" goalie when their present starter is a UFA in months and will be 38 at that time.

So you have no interest in Dipietro haha - no one will be interested in Dipietro. The Isles will have to double up on starter salaries regardless- as they already are - (or give up a whack of assets to rid themselves of Dipietro). There is nothing that "makes sense" in their situation. They can put a decision off until the end of the season (as you seem to be suggesting), but undoubtedly they are already well on their way to thinking this one out.

There is no way around it - it's that simple. Saying, 'oh, it doesn't make sense for them to give up assets to get a goaltender' doesn't change anything.

They are going to have to give up to get what they need in (and out of) goal - one way or another.


Actually there is one solution that makes sense in that situation, Just holding onto Dipietro and there young assets. Waiting till they are a good team, and making a decision later on, right now is not the time to do it. They have some good young goalies and they aren't at the level yet where throwing away assets for Luongo would help them.

And your first part kinda took everything out of context, there goalie is facing the most shots in the league and is 4-1-1 with respectable stats under the circumstances.

My older goalie comment was talking about Luongo moving forward into the future, do they want a goalie they can use for 5 years or so, or rather wait and see what they have with some prospects, and if that doesn't turn out then later on acquire a goalie who can be a corner stone for 10+ years.

It just doesn't sense as to why they would do it now with they team they have, and the fact that they are giving up the most shots just shows how bad they are, how much work they need in other areas first and how it makes no sense for them to do it.

And besides, above all else. They can't afford it. They can't afford to take on Luongo while Dipietrio is still they, and he's not going anywhere, so that above all else kind of diminishes that opportunity.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 31 January 2013 - 11:10 PM.

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#1128 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

Actually there is one solution that makes sense in that situation, Just holding onto Dipietro and there young assets. Waiting till they are a good team, and making a decision later on, right now is not the time to do it. They have some good young goalies and they aren't at the level yet where throwing away assets for Luongo would help them.


Pretty much.

Luongo doesn't turn NYI into a playoff contender and would cost them too much cheddar. Not gonna happen.
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#1129 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

Pretty much.

Luongo doesn't turn NYI into a playoff contender and would cost them too much cheddar. Not gonna happen.


Exactly, they are in no position to make a move like that.
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#1130 The Bookie

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

Wang won't pay for Dipietro and Luongo. He'd have to find a way to deal with Rick before doing something like that.


We have a potential deal in place with one team that has to do something with another player that they have — and it’s not who anybody thinks it is — and so we have to wait.
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#1131 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:17 AM

NHL.com is really pushing for Luongo to be our starter again. The headlines read that he is, and their poll states that the majority believe he is too.

I really hope MG holds off any trade talks for a while now just to see how this all unfolds. We should happily welcome Luongo back as our starter if he continues to outplay Schneider and trade the younger goalie.
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#1132 amkia

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:26 AM

Lp

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#1133 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:55 AM

We have a potential deal in place with one team that has to do something with another player that they have — and it’s not who anybody thinks it is — and so we have to wait.


Sure, but who the heck is gonna take G RD? Nobody that's who.
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#1134 The Bookie

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:29 AM

Sure, but who the heck is gonna take G RD? Nobody that's who.


as oldnews points out, that's not our problem, it's the Islanders problem. Let them figure it out. Fact is they are still approaching an off-season where they have a 38 yr old starter hitting UFA, a back-up perma-injured gongshow, and 2 ??s as prospects. Meanwhile their ridiculously deep younger crowd is just coming into its own and they're finally hitting a bigger arena/market. It's just kinda-maybe possible that they might want to reclaim their original super star goalie to time all of that to coincide with a few years making a run at the playoffs, let alone the cup.

NYI will be aiming to sell out and make a big splash when they hit their new arena.

"Hockey's Back!"
"Luongo's Back!"

If you haven't noticed, marketing isn't exactly the strong suit of the NHL. They prefer the jaw-dropping, cringingly obvious tactic. This trade would satisfy all needs.

Having said that, I still don't totally buy the logic. I still think a more forward thinking, long term planning team like the Devils or Red Wings are better suited to taking Luo in, as I've said recently here.
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#1135 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:40 AM

Looks like the team King called the worst lineup in NHL history, the one that the Canucks should have been alarmed to beat only 3-0 last night - the Avs - on the second of a back-to-back road games - went in and handed his Northwest champs an embarrassing 6-3 beating at home lol.


Once again, I said that I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary won the division, I did not say that they were going to win it.

Didn't another embarrassing 7-3 home-opener beating happen to some team that we all know and love, who were hosting a non-playoff team?
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#1136 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:42 AM

We have a potential deal in place with one team that has to do something with another player that they have — and it’s not who anybody thinks it is — and so we have to wait.


Is anybody able to find Gillis' quote when he was asked whether or not he had qualified MA Gragnani?

Hint: don't believe everything that a GM says

:bigblush:
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#1137 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:46 AM

Having said that, I still don't totally buy the logic. I still think a more forward thinking, long term planning team like the Devils or Red Wings are better suited to taking Luo in, as I've said recently here.


NJ has Brodeur and Hedberg under contract for next season, so they're almost definitely out. No buyout of Martin Brodeur will occur to make room for Luongo, you can be pretty confident of that.

Detroit is interesting, but Howard is very popular there so it's probably not likely. It would also go completely against their successful formula of investing relatively few dollars into the position. Then there's McCollum, a 1st round pick from '08 (who hasn't really shown much promise, but, still, a 1st round pick that they may not have given up on).
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#1138 Pears

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:51 AM

NJ has Brodeur and Hedberg under contract for next season, so they're almost definitely out. No buyout of Martin Brodeur will occur to make room for Luongo, you can be pretty confident of that.

Detroit is interesting, but Howard is very popular there so it's probably not likely. It would also go completely against their successful formula of investing relatively few dollars into the position. Then there's McCollum, a 1st round pick from '08 (who hasn't really shown much promise, but, still, a 1st round pick that they may not have given up on).

Brodeur is 40, Hedberg is a year younger at 39. They do have Wedgewood in the system but I don't see him making the jump any time soon, so don't count New Jersey out as a possible destination for Luongo.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1139 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:03 AM

as oldnews points out, that's not our problem, it's the Islanders problem. Let them figure it out. Fact is they are still approaching an off-season where they have a 38 yr old starter hitting UFA, a back-up perma-injured gongshow, and 2 ??s as prospects. Meanwhile their ridiculously deep younger crowd is just coming into its own and they're finally hitting a bigger arena/market. It's just kinda-maybe possible that they might want to reclaim their original super star goalie to time all of that to coincide with a few years making a run at the playoffs, let alone the cup.

NYI will be aiming to sell out and make a big splash when they hit their new arena.

"Hockey's Back!"
"Luongo's Back!"

If you haven't noticed, marketing isn't exactly the strong suit of the NHL. They prefer the jaw-dropping, cringingly obvious tactic. This trade would satisfy all needs.

Having said that, I still don't totally buy the logic. I still think a more forward thinking, long term planning team like the Devils or Red Wings are better suited to taking Luo in, as I've said recently here.


If they are ever going to sellout a game, John Tavares will be the calling card, not Luongo. (Even if they had both)

They won't risk the future for another decade of mediocrity. They learned that lesson the hard way with Yashin. And they can't afford both Lu and Dipietro, and they also can't afford to buy Dipietro out, so really that if anything closes the door on an NYI possibility.

Once again, I said that I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary won the division, I did not say that they were going to win it.

Didn't another embarrassing 7-3 home-opener beating happen to some team that we all know and love, who were hosting a non-playoff team?


We did return the favor with a 5-0 win against that very same club.

Loss Avenged.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 01 February 2013 - 05:13 AM.

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#1140 Pears

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:47 AM

Once again, I said that I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary won the division, I did not say that they were going to win it.

Didn't another embarrassing 7-3 home-opener beating happen to some team that we all know and love, who were hosting a non-playoff team?

The only way Calgary wins the Northwest is...scratch that, there is NO way Calgary will EVER win the division.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it





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