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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1141 Kassian's Face

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

The only way Calgary wins the Northwest is...scratch that, there is NO way Calgary will EVER win the division.


Unless they made a trade for Luongo....... He has been known to have stolen a division once or twice before :shock:
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#1142 stawns

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:33 AM

NHL.com is really pushing for Luongo to be our starter again. The headlines read that he is, and their poll states that the majority believe he is too.

I really hope MG holds off any trade talks for a while now just to see how this all unfolds. We should happily welcome Luongo back as our starter if he continues to outplay Schneider and trade the younger goalie.


everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that Luongo almost certainly went to Gillis and requested a trade, much like Hodgson did.
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#1143 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:33 AM

Actually there is one solution that makes sense in that situation, Just holding onto Dipietro and there young assets. Waiting till they are a good team, and making a decision later on, right now is not the time to do it. They have some good young goalies and they aren't at the level yet where throwing away assets for Luongo would help them.

And your first part kinda took everything out of context, there goalie is facing the most shots in the league and is 4-1-1 with respectable stats under the circumstances.

My older goalie comment was talking about Luongo moving forward into the future, do they want a goalie they can use for 5 years or so, or rather wait and see what they have with some prospects, and if that doesn't turn out then later on acquire a goalie who can be a corner stone for 10+ years.

It just doesn't sense as to why they would do it now with they team they have, and the fact that they are giving up the most shots just shows how bad they are, how much work they need in other areas first and how it makes no sense for them to do it.

And besides, above all else. They can't afford it. They can't afford to take on Luongo while Dipietrio is still they, and he's not going anywhere, so that above all else kind of diminishes that opportunity.


Apparently you'd like to play 'repeat yourself endlessly until the other person no longer bothers to respond'. No new points in that post to respond to.
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#1144 Nino

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:38 AM

everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that Luongo almost certainly went to Gillis and requested a trade, much like Hodgson did.


Your talking to a brick wall.
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#1145 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:40 AM

Once again, I said that I wouldn't be surprised if Calgary won the division, I did not say that they were going to win it.

Didn't another embarrassing 7-3 home-opener beating happen to some team that we all know and love, who were hosting a non-playoff team?


I'm not surprised that you wouldn't be surprised. :bigblush:

Everyone else in the hockey world, however, would be SHOCKED.
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#1146 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:09 AM

A lot of people found Christian Ehrhoff to be pretty one-dimensional. But that one-dimension was extremely valuable to our team - he brought something that we have not been able to replace. Investing in a couple of the other guys over Ehrhoff - Bieksa & Garrison, for example - was IMO a mistake. Specialists are often more impactful than jack-of-all-trades types, as well as more scarce.


For a guy who supposedly revels in stats and tangible proof, that is a strange statement to make. Kevin Bieksa proved far more valuable than Christian Ehrhoff in the 2009-10 and 2010-11 playoff runs. He equalled Ehrhoff's point production (despite far less PP opportunities), and was far more responsible defensively. He has provent to elevate his game in the playoffs, whereas Ehrhoff's value has diminished when the game intensifies.

Add in the fact that KB3 wasn't demanding a lifetime contract, had fantastic chemistry with your #1 D-man, and was your only legitimate right-handed D-man (other than Salo, whose future was uncertain), and chosing between the 2 of them should be an absolute no-brainer...
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#1147 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:12 AM

Their owner is Wang, not Bell or Aquillini...

Wang will continue to get Snow to sign back-up goalies on small contracts to play tandem with DiPietro... until DiPietro retires or something big happens like Tavares threatening a trade...

Either that or Dipietro has a reawakening and begins to play like a 1st overall pick, but either way it'll be RD and a goalie on a small contract who they hope can play well or has shown potential to (Nabby, Montoya, etc)...


You may be right about Wang - if you are, he may as well put the team on the block.
Why would Dipietro retire and leave 9 years at 4.5 million on the table? Dipietro has to go on a list with Redden, Yashin, Gomez, etc of mistakes you can't remain in denial of, letting that roadblock your team's future.

The Islanders have been rebuilding since the Ice Age. They are a good young team now, with a whole whack of talent coming down the pipes in a bottleneck - their weakest prospects are their average young goaltenders.

They've scored 2 goals less than San Jose at this point. That is reason #1 why they are winning hockey games.

Luongo would add 2.55 million cap hit over what they are spending on Nabokov. A team that is sitting in New York, about to move into a new arena, has a goaltending crossroads to deal with, and isn't willing to spend 2.55 million may as well simply put the team on the market and sell it to an owner that has a moderate intention of winning.

I see the Islanders as a longshot, but in any event, they are one of the goaltender buyers - if not in the present, in the very immediate future. And like the Leafs, they'll have to pay - unlike the Leafs they aren't swimming in money, but have far more assets to get it done.

We can go through every prospective interest and say 'it doesn't make sense to Toronto - they're not a good enough team to justify acquiring Luongo - it doesn't make sense to Philly, they have Bryz's contract - it doesn't make sense to Florida, they have Theodore and are thriftier than the Salvation Army - it doesn't make sense to Edmonton, they're still too young to take advantage of a veteran goaltender - it doesn't make sense to Washington, they have two good young goaltenders and are stuck with paying the underachieving Ovechkin, Backstrom and Green... Columbus doesn't make sense, assuming Luo would never want to go there (although they're in a position to walk away from Mason, an RFA who they can simply opt not to qualify...).
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#1148 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:13 AM

For a guy who supposedly revels in stats and tangible proof, that is a strange statement to make. Kevin Bieksa proved far more valuable than Christian Ehrhoff in the 2009-10 and 2010-11 playoff runs. He equalled Ehrhoff's point production (despite far less PP opportunities), and was far more responsible defensively. He has provent to elevate his game in the playoffs, whereas Ehrhoff's value has diminished when the game intensifies.

Add in the fact that KB3 wasn't demanding a lifetime contract, had fantastic chemistry with your #1 D-man, and was your only legitimate right-handed D-man (other than Salo, whose future was uncertain), and chosing between the 2 of them should be an absolute no-brainer...


bingo.
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#1149 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

NHL.com is really pushing for Luongo to be our starter again. The headlines read that he is, and their poll states that the majority believe he is too.

I really hope MG holds off any trade talks for a while now just to see how this all unfolds. We should happily welcome Luongo back as our starter if he continues to outplay Schneider and trade the younger goalie.


Posted Image


This is nothing new or relevatory - Luongo has played well every regular season. However, when it's mattered most, he's had a full blown meltdown at the end of every year since 2006-07.

2007-08 - Last 6 games: 4.59 GAA, 0.837 Sv%
2008-09 - Last 6 games: 3.31 GAA, 0.879 Sv%
2009-10 - Last 6 games: 3.52 GAA, 0.897 Sv%
2010-11 - Last 6 games: 4.12 GAA, 0.864 Sv%

So if the goal is to rack up Presidents Trophies, then by all means, keep him and trade Schneider. But for me...I'd like to try something different.
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#1150 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

Unless they made a trade for Luongo....... He has been known to have stolen a division once or twice before :shock:


He's stolen a couple back to back president's trophies too; )

jokes aside... if we trade Luongo who can beat the hawks tonight? Since we need a starting goalie to beat a team with that many weapons.

Troll face.
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#1151 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:38 AM

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This is nothing new or relevatory - Luongo has played well every regular season. However, when it's mattered most, he's had a full blown meltdown at the end of every year since 2006-07.

2007-08 - Last 6 games: 4.59 GAA, 0.837 Sv%
2008-09 - Last 6 games: 3.31 GAA, 0.879 Sv%
2009-10 - Last 6 games: 3.52 GAA, 0.897 Sv%
2010-11 - Last 6 games: 4.12 GAA, 0.864 Sv%

So if the goal is to rack up Presidents Trophies, then by all means, keep him and trade Schneider. But for me...I'd like to try something different.


That's an extremely irrelevant stat. Take most goalies stats when their team is playing their last games. Most likely it means they are getting eliminated from the playoffs. How can a team get eliminated from the playoffs and have a goalie with stellar stats o.o

When a team gets eliminated it's obviously going to reflect on the goalies statistics
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#1152 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:44 AM

He's stolen a couple back to back president's trophies too; )

jokes aside... if we trade Luongo who can beat the hawks tonight? Since we need a starting goalie to beat a team with that many weapons.

Troll face.


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#1153 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:52 AM

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Oh a save on krejci... think Luongo made a pretty impressive one on him in game seven;)
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#1154 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

You may be right about Wang - if you are, he may as well put the team on the block.
Why would Dipietro retire and leave 9 years at 4.5 million on the table? Dipietro has to go on a list with Redden, Yashin, Gomez, etc of mistakes you can't remain in denial of, letting that roadblock your team's future.

The Islanders have been rebuilding since the Ice Age. They are a good young team now, with a whole whack of talent coming down the pipes in a bottleneck - their weakest prospects are their average young goaltenders.

They've scored 2 goals less than San Jose at this point. That is reason #1 why they are winning hockey games.

Luongo would add 2.55 million cap hit over what they are spending on Nabokov. A team that is sitting in New York, about to move into a new arena, has a goaltending crossroads to deal with, and isn't willing to spend 2.55 million may as well simply put the team on the market and sell it to an owner that has a moderate intention of winning.

I see the Islanders as a longshot, but in any event, they are one of the goaltender buyers - if not in the present, in the very immediate future. And like the Leafs, they'll have to pay - unlike the Leafs they aren't swimming in money, but have far more assets to get it done.

We can go through every prospective interest and say 'it doesn't make sense to Toronto - they're not a good enough team to justify acquiring Luongo - it doesn't make sense to Philly, they have Bryz's contract - it doesn't make sense to Florida, they have Theodore and are thriftier than the Salvation Army - it doesn't make sense to Edmonton, they're still too young to take advantage of a veteran goaltender - it doesn't make sense to Washington, they have two good young goaltenders and are stuck with paying the underachieving Ovechkin, Backstrom and Green... Columbus doesn't make sense, assuming Luo would never want to go there (although they're in a position to walk away from Mason, an RFA who they can simply opt not to qualify...).


1. I'm right about Wang & I doubt he puts the team on the block, but if he does then MAYBE there's an opportunity, but that isn't the case at the moment.

2. There's a difference between cap hit & salary. Luongo would add about 4 million over Nabby and on a lot longer term..

3. Using those other teams is a straw man fallacy.. We're talking about the Islanders.
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#1155 holdinout4homegrown

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

I am in utter disbelief about this "goalie controversy". It would seem that the canucks have been saying no one is guaranteed a position on this team. Come to camp,to games and whoever plays best gets rewarded. Any one that wants boo hoo loungo who when challenged for his position asks for a trade; whats that about? That is not the type of player regardless of his past that we should want on this team. This whole thing is a joke. Just my opinion.
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#1156 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

Oh a save on krejci... think Luongo made a pretty impressive one on him in game seven;)


Luongo didn't do anything impressive in game seven.
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#1157 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

Oh a save on krejci... think Luongo made a pretty impressive one on him in game seven;)


Weren't you implying that Schneider isn't really a starter, that we need a starter to handle a team with weapons?
Schneider walked into Boston last year and out with a win.
I think that's a fairly solid example for you.
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#1158 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

Luongo didn't do anything impressive in game seven.


Yes he did... phenomenal save on krejci. Offense let us down...he made a big save when his team needed it and we failed to answer the bell.
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#1159 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

Weren't you implying that Schneider isn't really a starter, that we need a starter to handle a team with weapons?
Schneider walked into Boston last year and out with a win.
I think that's a fairly solid example for you.


Roberto has had games like that FOR A DECADE. Shcneider was good I'm not taking anything away from him... but the team scored four goals for him. How many did we score for Luongo all series in the finals ?
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#1160 Boudrias

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

You may be right about Wang - if you are, he may as well put the team on the block.
Why would Dipietro retire and leave 9 years at 4.5 million on the table? Dipietro has to go on a list with Redden, Yashin, Gomez, etc of mistakes you can't remain in denial of, letting that roadblock your team's future.

The Islanders have been rebuilding since the Ice Age. They are a good young team now, with a whole whack of talent coming down the pipes in a bottleneck - their weakest prospects are their average young goaltenders.

They've scored 2 goals less than San Jose at this point. That is reason #1 why they are winning hockey games.

Luongo would add 2.55 million cap hit over what they are spending on Nabokov. A team that is sitting in New York, about to move into a new arena, has a goaltending crossroads to deal with, and isn't willing to spend 2.55 million may as well simply put the team on the market and sell it to an owner that has a moderate intention of winning.

I see the Islanders as a longshot, but in any event, they are one of the goaltender buyers - if not in the present, in the very immediate future. And like the Leafs, they'll have to pay - unlike the Leafs they aren't swimming in money, but have far more assets to get it done.

We can go through every prospective interest and say 'it doesn't make sense to Toronto - they're not a good enough team to justify acquiring Luongo - it doesn't make sense to Philly, they have Bryz's contract - it doesn't make sense to Florida, they have Theodore and are thriftier than the Salvation Army - it doesn't make sense to Edmonton, they're still too young to take advantage of a veteran goaltender - it doesn't make sense to Washington, they have two good young goaltenders and are stuck with paying the underachieving Ovechkin, Backstrom and Green... Columbus doesn't make sense, assuming Luo would never want to go there (although they're in a position to walk away from Mason, an RFA who they can simply opt not to qualify...).

I think the serious offers start coming in between games 10 to 15. Lui is playing what game #8 tonight. I suspect a little bit of show casing going on by MG. The issue has never been Lui's regular season play. Those arguing for the status quo are ignoring the reality that Van does not have a serious CUP contending forward lineup. Gillis has to deal Lui to get it or write off the short season.

Making the right deal for Lui has the potential of keeping Van a competitive org for years to come. I suspect that Gillis has had frank talks with both Lui and Schneider. No way that Schneider is that naive that he did not discuss his future with the Canucks in a frank manner. Anyone suggesting that Gillis would blindside Schneider have a very short term view. Schneider is the goal tending future of the Canucks and a SO of the Av's doesn't change that.

A Top 6, a Prospect and a Pic = ca ching for the Canucks.
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#1161 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:03 AM

1. I'm right about Wang & I doubt he puts the team on the block, but if he does then MAYBE there's an opportunity, but that isn't the case at the moment.

2. There's a difference between cap hit & salary. Luongo would add about 4 million over Nabby and on a lot longer term..

3. Using those other teams is a straw man fallacy.. We're talking about the Islanders.


There is no straw involved in this discussion - you seem fairly confident speaking for the Isles, and I hate when people argue with me in the name of my favorite player of all time, so...
Uncle.
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#1162 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:06 AM

That's an extremely irrelevant stat. Take most goalies stats when their team is playing their last games. Most likely it means they are getting eliminated from the playoffs. How can a team get eliminated from the playoffs and have a goalie with stellar stats o.o

When a team gets eliminated it's obviously going to reflect on the goalies statistics


I've read a whole lot of D-Money posts, and I don't always agree with them, but they are never irrelevant.
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#1163 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:17 AM

I think the serious offers start coming in between games 10 to 15. Lui is playing what game #8 tonight. I suspect a little bit of show casing going on by MG. The issue has never been Lui's regular season play. Those arguing for the status quo are ignoring the reality that Van does not have a serious CUP contending forward lineup. Gillis has to deal Lui to get it or write off the short season.

Making the right deal for Lui has the potential of keeping Van a competitive org for years to come. I suspect that Gillis has had frank talks with both Lui and Schneider. No way that Schneider is that naive that he did not discuss his future with the Canucks in a frank manner. Anyone suggesting that Gillis would blindside Schneider have a very short term view. Schneider is the goal tending future of the Canucks and a SO of the Av's doesn't change that.

A Top 6, a Prospect and a Pic = ca ching for the Canucks.


I personally would have gone with Schneider against Chicago for a number of reasons. I'm not going to take a position that starting Luo is a mistake or a betrayal of Schneider - I don't have anywhere near as much information as AV and Gillis, and riding Luo when he's on his game makes sense to the goal of making the playoffs and in trade optics - but I think I'd have taken my chances with Schneider, who I agree is the future starter, and let Luongo's last shutout percolate in the minds of buyers.
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#1164 ForsbergTheGreat

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

Making the right deal for Lui has the potential of keeping Van a competitive org for years to come. I suspect that Gillis has had frank talks with both Lui and Schneider. No way that Schneider is that naive that he did not discuss his future with the Canucks in a frank manner. Anyone suggesting that Gillis would blindside Schneider have a very short term view. Schneider is the goal tending future of the Canucks and a SO of the Av's doesn't change that.

A Top 6, a Prospect and a Pic = ca ching for the Canucks.


You 100% correct, Luongo needs to go. Anyone that thinks we need to keep Luo and trade cory are only thinking about this year and not looking long term, and on top of that are making that judgement based on 4 games played where I can honestly say neither goalie has stood above the other one. Luongo has better stats but has also played teams that have been struggling to score, Luongo hasn't stood on his head, he hasn't stole us a game, he's just play ok. Cory besided the first game has done exactly the same. hasn't stood on his head, he hasn't stole us a game, he's just play ok. The only reason luongo is getting the start is simple because of his SO. just like when cory played back to back games after ANH. Luongo is not a bad goalie, he's a great goalie, he just needs a venue change and a new opportunity elsewhere. Beside it's not fair for luongo to be here anymore one bad game and people will be calling for his head again. Why would he want to stay here?
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#1165 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

That's an extremely irrelevant stat. Take most goalies stats when their team is playing their last games. Most likely it means they are getting eliminated from the playoffs. How can a team get eliminated from the playoffs and have a goalie with stellar stats o.o

When a team gets eliminated it's obviously going to reflect on the goalies statistics


I'm sure those words sounded good when you typed them, but they are not based on reality. If they were, how can you explain this?:

Here are the stats of other goaltenders from this past playoffs, for the series in which they were eliminated -

Craig Anderson - 2.00 GAA, .933 Save%
Tim Thomas - 2.14 GAA, .923 Save%
Braden Holtby - 1.90 GAA, .929 Save%
Mike Smith - 2.46 GAA, .936 Save%
Pekka Rinne - 2.32 GAA, .912 Save%
Henrik Lundqvist - 2.18 GAA, .918 Save%
Martin Brodeur - 2.36 GAA, .900 Save%
Cory Schneider - 1.31 GAA, .960 Save%
Antti Niemi - 2.45 GAA, .914 Save%


It is not a normal occurrence for a supposedly excellent starting goaltender to absolutely lay an egg in multiple games. GAA's nearing 3 and save percentages under .900 should be simply not acceptable, even if your team is out-matched.

For an example of a sub-par performance in a losing series, we have Ilya Bryzgalov with a 3.02 GAA and .902 save% in last year's series against the Devils. That is still significantly better than how Luongo finished in the four years prior, but still, obviously the Flyers are not happy with it. After just one year of that, people are even speculating that they'd consider buying him out! Imagine if he had even worse statistics, for 4 years straight?!?

So your reasoning is flat-out wrong. Luongo's stats to finish each year are extremely relevant.
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#1166 oldnews

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:46 AM

Roberto has had games like that FOR A DECADE. Shcneider was good I'm not taking anything away from him... but the team scored four goals for him. How many did we score for Luongo all series in the finals ?


Who cares? You don't need to be taking runs at Schneider in order to defend Luongo which is what you essentially did when you suggested he couldn't handle a team with guns.

Edited by oldnews, 01 February 2013 - 11:47 AM.

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#1167 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

I'm sure those words sounded good when you typed them, but they are not based on reality. If they were, how can you explain this?:

Here are the stats of other goaltenders from this past playoffs, for the series in which they were eliminated -

Craig Anderson - 2.00 GAA, .933 Save%
Tim Thomas - 2.14 GAA, .923 Save%
Braden Holtby - 1.90 GAA, .929 Save%
Mike Smith - 2.46 GAA, .936 Save%
Pekka Rinne - 2.32 GAA, .912 Save%
Henrik Lundqvist - 2.18 GAA, .918 Save%
Martin Brodeur - 2.36 GAA, .900 Save%
Cory Schneider - 1.31 GAA, .960 Save%
Antti Niemi - 2.45 GAA, .914 Save%


It is not a normal occurrence for a supposedly excellent starting goaltender to absolutely lay an egg in multiple games. GAA's nearing 3 and save percentages under .900 should be simply not acceptable, even if your team is out-matched.

For an example of a sub-par performance in a losing series, we have Ilya Bryzgalov with a 3.02 GAA and .902 save% in last year's series against the Devils. That is still significantly better than how Luongo finished in the four years prior, but still, obviously the Flyers are not happy with it. After just one year of that, people are even speculating that they'd consider buying him out! Imagine if he had even worse statistics, for 4 years straight?!?

So your reasoning is flat-out wrong. Luongo's stats to finish each year are extremely relevant.


I still disagree with you. The initial reason I disagreed with was because you are saying those stats are solely based on Luongo and not the fact the defense and the team collectively play like $##& in front of him and screen him, deflect simple shots with their stick ...cough cough hamhuis n bieksa:.. or flat out give up odd man rushes... break aways etc...

I don't base my judgment of players on stats. I watch the games... Luongo wasn't great in the playoffs when he first got here. Since 2010 I can't place any blame on him for our defensive and offensive shortcomins
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WHATCHU GONNA DO WHEN MILLERMANIA RUNS WILDDDD ON YOU?!

 

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#1168 I Got A Boy

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

Who cares? You don't need to be taking runs at Schneider in order to defend Luongo which is what you essentially did when you suggested he couldn't handle a team with guns.


y u try bash luie just cuz u liek schneider? stop riding band wagon
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#1169 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:30 PM

I personally would have gone with Schneider against Chicago for a number of reasons.††I'm not going to take a position that starting Luo is a mistake or a betrayal of Schneider - I don't have anywhere near as much information as AV and Gillis, and riding Luo when he's on his game makes sense to the goal of making the playoffs and in trade optics - but I think I'd have taken my chances with Schneider, who I agree is the future starter, and let Luongo's last shutout percolate in the minds of buyers.


I agree. I was surprised that Luongo was named the starter tonight, despite his last two starts.

Chicago has always given louie trouble and I really believe that they are a team that gets into his head. Schneider, IMO, handles this sort of mental pressure better than Luongo does.

I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that the 'Hawks are going to bring Lou back down to earth tonight...
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#1170 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

y u try bash luie just cuz u liek schneider? stop riding band wagon


Riding the band wagon would be lobbying for Luongo to stay, when the clear signs point to him being dealt.

I'm just curious, how old are you?
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