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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1171 Ray Canuck

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

Couple of thoughts...
Lou deserves the start tonight....
Cody was showcased before he was traded, making sure he looked as good as possible.
I think the team will rally in front of Lou, which is win/win for the Canucks
MG said exactly what I implied a few pages ago, trades happen when they suit our goal & only then
Most on these pages couldn't manage a Peewee team, yet know exactly how to deal with the Canucks
&
KofBS
How’s your Flames prediction working out, you know where the Nucks were out of the playoffs and the Flames were vastly improved?
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#1172 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:37 PM

Who cares? You don't need to be taking runs at Schneider in order to defend Luongo which is what you essentially did when you suggested he couldn't handle a team with guns.


If I say I think Daniel is our best winger does it mean I'm taking runs at burrows higgy etc? No Daniel is simply our best winger and Luongo is simply our best goalie.

I like Schneider... like Luongo more because in my opinion he's better.
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#1173 Noheart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

40 pages

Wow

Anyone got a total replying count on the Luongo trade series?
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#1174 elvis15

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

...
Okay, so the $550k difference between Matt Greene's $2.95m and Willie Mitchell's $3.5m is solid outlet passes. I agree. Now imagine if Willie could score 8-12g a year via a 100-mph slapshot. Should he not be worth an extra $1m for the ability to be one of only 20 defensemen who hit double digits in goals?

Gillis lost Salo because he wanted to give Schultz that spot. By that time Salo probably felt slighted and didn't want the one year deal Gillis offered but you stating that you hate Garrison without watching him closely for more than 10 games speaks volumes. Sometimes you have to keep an open mind and let things play out.

If Garrison goes on to score 8-10g a season and solid defence in 20mins/game icetime over the next few 4-5 seasons, will you admit you were wrong? Or will you be adamant that he was still a bad signing?

+1 for the bolded, but I think you already know the answer to your last questions.

Garrison so far has the best rating for Corsi QoC of any of our D and is best among our top 4 for Corsi on ice. That means he's facing tougher competition and still driving possession stats in a positive way. Ballard and Tanev are the only ones driving better possession but they're also facing the weakest opposition.

In the forwards, only Higgins, Burrows and Hansen are facing tougher opposition (a testament to what role they really play for us, especially with Kesler out). For driving possession, the Sedins (and Kassian by extension) are top of the pile before you see Garrison. Volpatti actually sneaks in ahead of Garrison in possession stats but he and Manny (also Weise) face easily the weakest competition on our team along with Ballard and Tanev.

Long story short, Garrison is logging the most minutes of anyone on our team besides Edler, has the best plus/minus (Hansen's next at -3), and does well at controlling possession of the puck while playing the toughest competition. Two giveaways resulting in goals doesn't define his whole season so far.

But back to Luongo since that's who this thread is about.


as oldnews points out, that's not our problem, it's the Islanders problem. Let them figure it out...

You make some decent points later, but I didn't want to quote the whole post just for this.

As Smashian points out, until the Isles have dealt with DiPietro a trade to get Luongo is highly unlikely since they won't carry both. We aren't even sure if Luongo would be interested in going back there.

Obviously, they can't keep losing and expect to keep both their fans and their young stars around. At some point they have to address goaltending if it's the only thing holding them back. Right now, it isn't - and Nabby being older could fade as the season wears on as oldnews points out as well - so I don't see them interested unless it becomes a trade deadline deal and they've decided they will remove DiPietro from the equation in the offseason.

I see the Devils have come back up again. They might be interested in the offseason, but I doubt they do so for this year unless something happens that changes their outlook. A deal for a top young goalie certainly gives them pause though.

In any event both teams are probably looking for up and coming goalies rather than someone who is already established but only has so many years left. Luongo would provide an excellent window for at least a few more years (and maybe even more) but unless that team is ready to make a serious push in the next few years I don't think Luongo is the target.

For Washington, that push is to compete against Pittsburgh, Boston New York (Rangers), etc. but they have options they hope can do the job. For the Leafs and Panthers that means playoffs and building from there where they aren't sure of their goalies currently. For the Islanders, they worry about next year, well, next year. The Devils do too since the still have Brodeur for now.
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#1175 theminister

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:00 PM

y u try bash luie just cuz u liek schneider? stop riding band wagon


Or

"Why do you try to bash Louie just because you like Schneider as well? Please don't be a bandwagon fan."
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#1176 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

I still disagree with you. The initial reason I disagreed with was because you are saying those stats are solely based on Luongo and not the fact the defense and the team collectively play like $##& in front of him and screen him, deflect simple shots with their stick ...cough cough hamhuis n bieksa:.. or flat out give up odd man rushes... break aways etc...

I don't base my judgment of players on stats. I watch the games... Luongo wasn't great in the playoffs when he first got here. Since 2010 I can't place any blame on him for our defensive and offensive shortcomins

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What is this, opposite-land?

The first 3 playoff series Luongo played for us were freakin' fantastic. They were the 3 of the best series a Vancouver Canucks goaltender has ever had statistically...

EDIT: The best goaltending stats in a series the Vancouver Canucks have ever had was Luongo against the Blues in 2008-09, with a 1.16GAA and .962 save%. Cory Schneider in 2011-12 is 2nd.

Edited by D-Money, 01 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.

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#1177 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:05 PM

Cody was showcased before he was traded, making sure he looked as good as possible.
KofBS
How’s your Flames prediction working out, you know where the Nucks were out of the playoffs and the Flames were vastly improved?


If Cody was being showcased, why was he planted firmly on the 3rd line? Should he not have at least been played in the top-six, so as to inflate his numbers even more? The guy was playing 10.5 minutes per game. He had 18 goals. To steal some words from the great Phil Jackson, "give him some f@$%#& credit".

As for the Canucks, they're in the playoffs right now by all of 1 point - 6th seed - while the 7th seed, Anaheim, has played 2 less games, and the 8th seed, Detroit, has played 1 less game. The Canucks are 3-2-2, and have played 5 of their games against non-playoff teams from last year. So, y'know, don't start planning the parade quite yet.

As for Calgary...I don't know. Really can't explain that team. On paper, they're a good team. Don't forget that they've only played 5 games. After tonight, Vancouver will have played 8.
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#1178 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

Okay, so the $550k difference between Matt Greene's $2.95m and Willie Mitchell's $3.5m is solid outlet passes. I agree. Now imagine if Willie could score 8-12g a year via a 100-mph slapshot. Should he not be worth an extra $1m for the ability to be one of only 20 defensemen who hit double digits in goals?


That "small, extra" $1.1M amounts to a 31% increase in compensation.

In addition, Jason Garrison got 6 years, while Willie had 2. You're typically granted 1 of the 2 contractual elements of higher term, lower cap hit (Luongo), or lower term, higher cap hit (Semin, Mitchell). Garrison hit a walk-off HR on July 1st of this year. Not comparable contracts.
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#1179 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

As for Calgary...I don't know. Really can't explain that team. On paper, they're a good team. Don't forget that they've only played 5 games. After tonight, Vancouver will have played 8.


Starting Lineup:
Cammalleri - Tanguay - Iginla
Bouwmeester - Wideman
Kiprusoff

FANTASTIC...for 2007-8-9.

2013? Not so much.
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#1180 apollo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

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What is this, opposite-land?

The first 3 playoff series Luongo played for us were freakin' fantastic. They were the 3 of the best series a Vancouver Canucks goaltender has ever had statistically...

...BTW - the best goaltending stats in a series the Vancouver Canucks have ever had was in 2011-12, from Cory Schneider.

He played three games ... how do u judge based on three games... I'm sure Roberto has had better three game stretches

Stop referring to stats alone. I can say I've watched every playoff game Roberto has played at least one time. He isn't the problem.

Edited by apollo, 01 February 2013 - 01:15 PM.

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#1181 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

Apparently you'd like to play 'repeat yourself endlessly until the other person no longer bothers to respond'. No new points in that post to respond to.


Apparently you like to twist things sideways rather than reply to points.

Oh and you did it once again.
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#1182 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that Luongo almost certainly went to Gillis and requested a trade, much like Hodgson did.


"Everyone" is overlooking that possibility because such a notion didn't happen.

Time for forgiveness and support for Luongo.
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#1183 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

...I don't know. Really can't explain that...


This seems to be quite common.

The problem is you usually still think you know, upon which you explain those misconceptions vehemently, and then bury your head in the sand when the evidence that suggests otherwise begins to surface.

I like this brief glimpse of a different King.
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#1184 thad

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

I might be the only one but i think this is good what is going on with our goalies. This puts Schneider to the test. How does he handle the pressure of having his job slightly taken over? He looks great technically, we know that, but i feel that this puts him to the test mentally. I dont think he's sitting around pouting like king says, its pretty obvious he's being a team player and will continue to do so. Every player has little ups and downs in his career. Schneids is still playing good but i guess you could consider this as a mini down and it will be good to see how he handles it.

im not worried about it at all, i think he's going to be one of the best goalies in the league for a long time. Im just pointing out that this will help build character and a mentally tough and focused goalie.

The controversy is BS. Remember these guys play for the vancouver canucks, not the other way around. If by some chance King is right and schneider turns into a whiner after a half of a halfseason, then i really dont want him here.
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#1185 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

The problem is you usually still think you know, upon which you explain those misconceptions vehemently, and then bury your head in the sand when the evidence that suggests otherwise begins to surface.


Yeah, how crazy it is for me to think that Calgary might have what it takes to do well in a shortened season. After all, they missed the playoffs by a whole 5 points last year, 3 in 2011. They made some decent additions in the off-season, they have some exciting young talent, and they've added a new coach.

Nobody thought we were going anywhere when AV arrived in '06, and we went on to win the division. The guy who really hasn't been good for Calgary thus far is Kiprusoff. If he can regain form, they are finally showing an ability to score goals, so I wouldn't write them off quite yet.
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#1186 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:28 PM

I think Schneider was mad by the reporters asking. Not by the fact that Lu is starting.

The reporters are obviously something he will have to get comfortable with but man I was on his side on that one, those damn reports probably asked the same damn question 3 times just with a different spin every time It's so annoying when they do that. Hearing the exact same comments on the exact same situation everyday is getting boring.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 01 February 2013 - 01:28 PM.

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#1187 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

He played three games ... how do u judge based on three games... I'm sure Roberto has had better three game stretches

Stop referring to stats alone. I can say I've watched every playoff game Roberto has played at least one time. He isn't the problem.


That series against the Blues in 2008-09 was the last time Luongo played a stretch of 3 playoff games with stats as good as what Cory just put up.

Shortly thereafter, he played his first series against the Blackhawks. The rest is history.

By the way, I have watched the games too. Anybody who doesn't have a problem with Luongo's play in any of the games in the Blackhawk series, or any of the games in the Bruins series, is...well... ...in need of shock therapy?
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#1188 Heretic

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

That series against the Blues in 2008-09 was the last time Luongo played a stretch of 3 playoff games with stats as good as what Cory just put up.

Shortly thereafter, he played his first series against the Blackhawks. The rest is history.

By the way, I have watched the games too. Anybody who doesn't have a problem with Luongo's play in any of the games in the Blackhawk series, or any of the games in the Bruins series, is...well... ...in need of shock therapy?


:huh: If it wasn't for Luongo the Bruins would have beat us like the Islanders did in '82.....
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#1189 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

I think Schneider was mad by the reporters asking. Not by the fact that Lu is starting.

The reporters are obviously something he will have to get comfortable with but man I was on his side on that one, those damn reports probably asked the same damn question 3 times just with a different spin every time It's so annoying when they do that. Hearing the exact same comments on the exact same situation everyday is getting boring.


Is it really so hard for you to admit that Cory Schneider is not happy?

You think he's mad at the reporters? :lol: They're just doing their job, which CS is smart enough to know. CS is pissed off because of the circus that is going on around him. This isn't what he signed up for when he decided to throw this organization a bone by signing before he was eligible to receive RFA offers, which really was not in his best interests.

Contrary to your belief/wish, nobody is happy with a rotate-the-goalie setup. Schneider turns 27 years old in a month. He signed here because he was told that the team was his. Luongo has said that he did not expect to be back in August. CS is pissed off for good reason. Mike Gillis has not adequately dealt with this situation, and it has turned into a sideshow and a debacle (who predicted that, BTW?).

Nice start to his era in this city, isn't it?

Edited by King of the ES, 01 February 2013 - 01:58 PM.

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#1190 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:57 PM

Yeah, how crazy it is for me to think that Calgary might have what it takes to do well in a shortened season. After all, they missed the playoffs by a whole 5 points last year, 3 in 2011. They made some decent additions in the off-season, they have some exciting young talent, and they've added a new coach.

Nobody thought we were going anywhere when AV arrived in '06, and we went on to win the division. The guy who really hasn't been good for Calgary thus far is Kiprusoff. If he can regain form, they are finally showing an ability to score goals, so I wouldn't write them off quite yet.


The thing is, new coaches with new systems often take time for a team to get used to. If the 2006-07 season was a shortened, 48-game season, we may not have even made the playoffs. It was only an insane run from Christmas on that vaulted us to the top of the division.

Not to mention that many of our key players were young, up-and-comers, as opposed to guys on the back-9 of their careers who already have failed us numerous consecutive times.
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#1191 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

The controversy is BS. Remember these guys play for the vancouver canucks, not the other way around. If by some chance King is right and schneider turns into a whiner after a half of a halfseason, then i really dont want him here.


:picard:

I said that Schneider's going to turn into a whiner?!? Nice try.
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#1192 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

:huh: If it wasn't for Luongo the Bruins would have beat us like the Islanders did in '82.....


Which would be a different end result how?
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#1193 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Is it really so hard for you to admit that Cory Schneider is not happy?

You think he's mad at the reporters? :lol: They're just doing their job, which CS is smart enough to know. CS is pissed off because of the circus that is going on around him. This isn't what he signed up for when he decided to throw this organization a bone by signing before he was eligible to receive RFA offers, which really was not in his best interests.

Contrary to your belief/wish, nobody is happy with a rotate-the-goalie setup. Schneider turns 27 years old in a month. He signed here because he was told that the team was his. Luongo has said that he did not expect to be back in August. CS is pissed off for good reason. Mike Gillis has not adequately dealt with this situation, and it has turned into a sideshow and a debacle (who predicted that, BTW?).

Nice start to his era in this city, isn't it?


I know Schneider isn't happy, isn't obvious I'm not disputing that. Unlike you I can admit these things.

But he is 27, he's not 5. He can handle this. Would you be annoyed having to answer the exact same question 3 times in a row? I know I would.

No one is happy with the way the media is handling this, but the only time this is a circus is when the doors open for the media to walk in. That's it. They are both friends and understand the situation, they aren't complaining about it and are taking it all in stride as it is what's best for the organization in which they are contracted too and love. That's why management has confidence that it isn't as big of a situation media makes it to be.

It really all comes down to the media. They can handle the situation just fine, the media just tries to make it more than it is.
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#1194 Heretic

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

Which would be a different end result how?


We would have lost 4 straight doh yo!
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#1195 Noheart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

:huh: If it wasn't for Luongo the Bruins would have beat us like the Islanders did in '82.....


Do we really need to go here?

How does this relate to the Luongo trade.
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#1196 thad

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

:picard:

I said that Schneider's going to turn into a whiner?!? Nice try.


Lol whatever bud.. The past 4 months you've portrayed this team as an imploding franchise that cant make one good move and is full pissed off declining players and prospects that won't amount to anything.

You then go on to suggest that the flames have all these bright spots that could pull through and put them in the running this year.

This is why we laugh at you. Nobody is a avoiding any truth like you seem to imply. We're talking with common sense and discussing things while you come in and say the Canucks are completely hooped but the flames really might have a shot this year. If the flames have a serious shot to turn things around this year then wouldn't the Canucks have an even better shot? Or did the garrison signing and playing the hot goalie really screw up our future?

Your logic is flawed, full of imaginary pissed off players and biased against the Canucks in every post.
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#1197 Heretic

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:29 PM

Do we really need to go here?

How does this relate to the Luongo trade.


Because Luongo is better than some people say he is - so his trade value is a reflection of that.
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#1198 The Bookie

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

You make some decent points later, but I didn't want to quote the whole post just for this.

As Smashian points out, until the Isles have dealt with DiPietro a trade to get Luongo is highly unlikely since they won't carry both. We aren't even sure if Luongo would be interested in going back there.

Obviously, they can't keep losing and expect to keep both their fans and their young stars around. At some point they have to address goaltending if it's the only thing holding them back. Right now, it isn't - and Nabby being older could fade as the season wears on as oldnews points out as well - so I don't see them interested unless it becomes a trade deadline deal and they've decided they will remove DiPietro from the equation in the offseason.

I see the Devils have come back up again. They might be interested in the offseason, but I doubt they do so for this year unless something happens that changes their outlook. A deal for a top young goalie certainly gives them pause though.

In any event both teams are probably looking for up and coming goalies rather than someone who is already established but only has so many years left. Luongo would provide an excellent window for at least a few more years (and maybe even more) but unless that team is ready to make a serious push in the next few years I don't think Luongo is the target.

For Washington, that push is to compete against Pittsburgh, Boston New York (Rangers), etc. but they have options they hope can do the job. For the Leafs and Panthers that means playoffs and building from there where they aren't sure of their goalies currently. For the Islanders, they worry about next year, well, next year. The Devils do too since the still have Brodeur for now.


Yeah, NYI, Devils, maybe Red Wings are possibilities for a pre-planned summer trade. Knowing Gillis he's probably got a couple of potential deals frameworked already, but things would be left open in case a team panics and offers a better deal during this season. As has been said endlessly, Panthers, Leafs, Capitals are the most likely suitors if that does happen.

I don't know, I'm surprised by how many people participating in this thread are so quick to shut down certain trade partner ideas. We're talking Gillis here. How often are his trades predictable?

edit - I would also add Philly to the list of teams that might already be talking about an off-season deal, depending on what happens with Bryz over the course of the season.

Edited by The Bookie, 01 February 2013 - 02:36 PM.

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#1199 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

I know Schneider isn't happy, isn't obvious I'm not disputing that. Unlike you I can admit these things.

But he is 27, he's not 5. He can handle this. Would you be annoyed having to answer the exact same question 3 times in a row? I know I would.

No one is happy with the way the media is handling this, but the only time this is a circus is when the doors open for the media to walk in. That's it. They are both friends and understand the situation, they aren't complaining about it and are taking it all in stride as it is what's best for the organization in which they are contracted too and love. That's why management has confidence that it isn't as big of a situation media makes it to be.

It really all comes down to the media. They can handle the situation just fine, the media just tries to make it more than it is.


You're blaming the media for a Mike Gillis creation. Mike Gillis chose to not trade Schneider, ever, and he's now also chosen to not trade Luongo. All that the media is doing is their job, which is reporting on stories - and this is a story, like it or not. People want to know what's going on, which is the very business that the media are in.

So, come on, it's time to place blame where its deserved, and that is squarely on the shoulders of Mike Gillis. I don't know why anybody is surprised that this has turned into the distraction that it has.

Soon enough, we'll be seeing "Team Lu" and "Team Cory" shirts being sold in Vancouver. It's Conan v. Leno, Sanchez v. Tebow, etc. This is what has happened.
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#1200 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

Soon enough, we'll be seeing "Team Lu" and "Team Cory" shirts being sold in Vancouver. It's Conan v. Leno, Sanchez v. Tebow, etc. This is what has happened.


Yeah, it will be you on Team King vs everyone else on Team Not-King.

I'm assuming it would be you all by yourself as I've heard a number of folks say that you like to play by yourself... or something like that. :)


regards,
G.
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