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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1201 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

You're blaming the media for a Mike Gillis creation. Mike Gillis chose to not trade Schneider, ever, and he's now also chosen to not trade Luongo. All that the media is doing is their job, which is reporting on stories - and this is a story, like it or not. People want to know what's going on, which is the very business that the media are in.

So, come on, it's time to place blame where its deserved, and that is squarely on the shoulders of Mike Gillis. I don't know why anybody is surprised that this has turned into the distraction that it has.

Soon enough, we'll be seeing "Team Lu" and "Team Cory" shirts being sold in Vancouver. It's Conan v. Leno, Sanchez v. Tebow, etc. This is what has happened.


What did Mike Gillis create, The only place this time this is a major issue is when the doors open for the media to come in. This isn't a major issue between the 2, yeah things could be better, could be better for any player in any circumstance but there isn't a major issue between the two, this isn't a story to them, it's business they show up, work hard, and help the team win, they aren't focused on it.

And trading Cory Schneider would have been the absolute worst thing to do, I'm glad he put the organization first and thought it out a little longer rather than fans who have knee jerk reactions and overreact to everything.
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#1202 Dragonfruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

You're blaming the media for a Mike Gillis creation. Mike Gillis chose to not trade Schneider, ever, and he's now also chosen to not trade Luongo. All that the media is doing is their job, which is reporting on stories - and this is a story, like it or not. People want to know what's going on, which is the very business that the media are in.

So, come on, it's time to place blame where its deserved, and that is squarely on the shoulders of Mike Gillis. I don't know why anybody is surprised that this has turned into the distraction that it has.

Soon enough, we'll be seeing "Team Lu" and "Team Cory" shirts being sold in Vancouver. It's Conan v. Leno, Sanchez v. Tebow, etc. This is what has happened.


nothing has happened yet and you have bought into the media goalie controversy Gillis said numerous times that he would keep both goalies until the off-season there is no reason to trade 2 number 1 goalies unless it will help the team this season so nice try there is no controversy just the one created by the media
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#1203 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

Because Luongo is better than some people say he is - so his trade value is a reflection of that.


Pretty much everyone here is aware of how good Luongo can be. I am as aware of it as anyone. He provides consistently elite goaltending in the regular season, and in the playoffs he can often steal you a game, or even a series.

However, as I am also aware of, he has repeatedly melted down under high-pressure circumstances. It has happened not once, twice, three, or even four times, but five seperate occasions (four of them resulting in our elimination, one we still pulled out of). It is tough to build a team that is supposed to contend for the cup, only to have your most important player fail you when he is needed most.

Personally, I still think Luongo is a fantastic player, and could be very valuable to a different team, particularly one that is a bubble team, not expected to win it all. For one, he'll almost certainly get a bubble team into the playoffs. Secondly, his ability to steal games and even a whole series could get one of these bubble teams further into the playoffs than they have any business doing. If he does end up crumbling a round or two in, well, nobody would have been expecting the team to go that deep anyways, so it wouldn't be such a big deal.

As for that last point, I think that removal of weight from Luongo's shoulders could do him a world of good. I think his past problems in Vancouver become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. For instance, him choking against the Hawks in 2008-09 and 09-10 was probably in the back of his mind, and his teammates. So as soon as he let in a bad goal in 10-11, it was as though a collective "oh no, here we go again" reverberated not only to the fanbase, but Luongo himself, and to his teammates. The floodgates were open, the team in front of him started to panic and deflate...and it took starting Schneider in game 6 to calm everyone down again. It's in his head, and his teammates' heads as well.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that I think the only way Luongo will get past his inconsistent postseason play is to get out of Vancouver, and start fresh somewhere with less pressure. Could he be a Stanley Cup winning goaltender? Absolutely...but not with the Canucks - not anymore.
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#1204 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

What did Mike Gillis create, The only place this time this is a major issue is when the doors open for the media to come in. This isn't a major issue between the 2, yeah things could be better, could be better for any player in any circumstance but there isn't a major issue between the two, this isn't a story to them, it's business they show up, work hard, and help the team win, they aren't focused on it.


MG let this situation fester, for years, and here we are now. Please, stop blaming the media. This should not be a surprise anybody. They're doing their job, nothing more. If you haven't noticed, this is a big ordeal across the country.

And when you say that there isn't a major issue between the two, are you talking about Lu & Schneider? If so, I agree. They really don't have a reason to be mad at eachother. But they do have a reason to be mad at the Vancouver organization, for turning this into what it is by not dealing with this situation. Both guys are in a very awkward spot, Lu wants to move on somewhere else, Schneider was told that the team was his. Nobody is happy.
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#1205 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

nothing has happened yet and you have bought into the media goalie controversy Gillis said numerous times that he would keep both goalies until the off-season there is no reason to trade 2 number 1 goalies unless it will help the team this season so nice try there is no controversy just the one created by the media


"Media goalie controversy" - listen to Schneider's interview. That's one thrilled employee, if I've ever heard one.
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#1206 Dragonfruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:02 PM

"Media goalie controversy" - listen to Schneider's interview. That's one thrilled employee, if I've ever heard one.


haven't heard it but if its about the reporter asking the same question over and over again of course he will come off as annoyed its human nature again its a media goalie controversy the team is fine with running with both goalies this season then they can make a decision on who is getting traded its really not that hard to figure out there is absolutely no problem this season to have both cory and roberto here it only becomes a problem if they decide to keep both next season again media trying to make stories up
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#1207 D-Money

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

Nobody is happy.


This guy seems pretty happy:

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...Wait a minute...is that a strong warning sign?
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#1208 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

MG let this situation fester, for years, and here we are now. Please, stop blaming the media. This should not be a surprise anybody. They're doing their job, nothing more. If you haven't noticed, this is a big ordeal across the country.

And when you say that there isn't a major issue between the two, are you talking about Lu & Schneider? If so, I agree. They really don't have a reason to be mad at eachother. But they do have a reason to be mad at the Vancouver organization, for turning this into what it is by not dealing with this situation. Both guys are in a very awkward spot, Lu wants to move on somewhere else, Schneider was told that the team was his. Nobody is happy.


I don't think it is blaming the media as it is there job, I think it is just stating the truth. Some of them go overboard and that's where the issue arises but everyone understands why it's a big story, although I think it's clear the issue with Cory and Roberto is having to answer the same question 20 times everyday rather than what the actual situation between the 2 is.

And here's the thing. Trading Luongo now, earlier. Doesn't change anything. If we had traded Luongo in the summer it would still be a hot button topic, it would still be at the top of everyones interest.

Look at Zack vs Cody, that's the exact same situation that would happen had we, or if we trade one of them, except x1000.

Your not getting away from it either way, in some sense where we are right now might be the best situation atleast from a fans POV because in the other scenerio, after every loss there would be questions of "Did we trade the right guy" or "Did we get the right return" and if we trade Luongo now I guarentee the answer to question #2 would be no.

Were not escaping this either way it will still be a circus of sorts in the media when he leaves, so lets just stay in the moment and focus on winning hockey games rather than blowing this out of proportion.
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#1209 Pears

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:11 PM

Yes he did... phenomenal save on krejci. Offense let us down...he made a big save when his team needed it and we failed to answer the bell.

Even though I didn't want to, I dug up the box score from Game 7 just to show you that you are completely wrong

Vancouver had 37 shots on goal, whereas Boston had a meesly 21 shots on goal, and Luongo let in three of them for a save percentage of just .857. So really again it was actually Tim Thomas that stood on his head that game, not Luongo. Don't believe me? Here's the link. Go count up Boston's shots yourself

http://canucks.nhl.c...m?id=2010030417
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1210 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

And here's the thing. Trading Luongo now, earlier. Doesn't change anything. If we had traded Luongo in the summer it would still be a hot button topic, it would still be at the top of everyones interest.


The difference - which is big - is that we would at least know who our #1 goaltender is, and it would not be a topic of debate/discussion every day. Had Lu been traded in the summer, CS would be our guy, and we'd likely have some standard NHL journeyman as our backup.
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#1211 Yotes

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:19 PM

we all know its best for this to be resolved. Neither goalie is going to want to hear the same question repeated and asked 3 different times worded differently on every game day, post game and interview they do.

i would think it could push schneider to say he wants a trade, then MG would have a problem if all along his plan was to keep cory.

I think regardless of tonights result, the team must start schneider, he needs to get into games, its been almost a week since he started.

As for when or what we get in return, unfortunately we may have to take a lesser package than we want for Luongo, but the sooner this gets resolved the better, because neither goalie wants to be asked daily over the goaie situation, and we need to gain assets back at some point to re stock the prospects or draft picks.

I just hope this gets resolved sooner than later, hate to see either of them have to go but its just a matter of time until a trade happens. And for those to think us keeping both for the whole year is beneficial, i know its a shortened season but if MG thinks schneider is the guy he has to assume schneider cam play 60+ games a year in a full year. So he is going to have to play alot in any schedule. Price, Rinne, Kipper, Lundquist, all play around 70 games a year, im sure schneider could play 35-40 of the 48 game season

Some ppl on here need to stop bashing eachother so much, not one of us knows when or if there will be a trade, where he goes and what the return is. It just needs to be resolved hopefully sooner than later
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#1212 HUFFY

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:21 PM

Fact # 1 = Lu is the best goaltender the Nucks have ever had and ever will have, # 1-A After last playoff's benching he wants a trade, # 1-B He wants to go to either of 2 teams TO or FL.
Fact # 2 = Schneider has been named as the Nucks # 1, # 2-A his performance has been pretty good, # 2-B he will sit out for the third straight game, # 2-C he;s not a happy camper which was quite evident last media scrum.

Gillis created this whole mess + the big elephant in the room is Lu's contract...
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#1213 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

The difference - which is big - is that we would at least know who our #1 goaltender is, and it would not be a topic of debate/discussion every day. Had Lu been traded in the summer, CS would be our guy, and we'd likely have some standard NHL journeyman as our backup.


Yeah and everytime Lu put on a good performance. The topic would be: "Did we trade the right guy"

Everytime whoever we got in return struggled: "We traded Luongo for crap"

Everytime Schneider lets in a bad goal or has a tough game: "We traded the wrong guy"


Once this trade is made it will be Kassian vs Cody 2.0 with the heat turned way up. Mark my words.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 01 February 2013 - 03:25 PM.

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#1214 Dragonfruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:25 PM

Fact # 1 = Lu is the best goaltender the Nucks have ever had and ever will have, # 1-A After last playoff's benching he wants a trade, # 1-B He wants to go to either of 2 teams TO or FL.
Fact # 2 = Schneider has been named as the Nucks # 1, # 2-A his performance has been pretty good, # 2-B he will sit out for the third straight game, # 2-C he;s not a happy camper which was quite evident last media scrum.

Gillis created this whole mess + the big elephant in the room is Lu's contract...


again there is no problem as long as the team is winning and it gets dealt with in the off-season the only story here was created by the media because they have nothing better to do

Edited by captaincanuck88, 01 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

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#1215 Yotes

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

oh it will be ever so closely scrutinized after every shift, or shot saved. If thats schneider in net and whatever the return for luo is.

You can never predict the outcome especially if we do get prospect or 2 that may not contribute right away.

I just see how MG and AV are handling this whole thing, and to me it feels like they arent really giving schneider a very fair shot to grab hold of the net and run with it, give him the confidence to put him back in net if he gets pulled the game before. We all know that shows confidence in your netminder.

Its too bad this has gotten to this point, we could have traded schneider and kept luo for another couple years and groomed lack into the next schneider. then Luo would be older but his salary would be less for a team looking for a higher cap hit.

I just feel bad for both goalies, yes they make a lot of money. But this is a sport and they should be treated with respect, theyve both earned it, and should be told who is the #1 goalie, and serious try to make the best trade possible and move the #1a goalie if thats what you wanna call him
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#1216 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

The difference - which is big - is that we would at least know who our #1 goaltender is, and it would not be a topic of debate/discussion every day. Had Lu been traded in the summer, CS would be our guy, and we'd likely have some standard NHL journeyman as our backup.


I don't see it as being a problem, yet. Give it another couple of months and I'll be right there with you in suggesting that the Canucks could be in a bit of trouble. Not a huge amount mind you, but certainly a bit.

Had Luongo been traded already it would be a topic of discussion, but with just a twist. We would be talking about whether Gillis got enough for Luongo, or that he should have tried to fill different team needs with the trade, or any number of other variants.

Also, had Schneider been traded years ago, we would be discussing this from the perspective of how Gillis gave him away and didn't get anything near what he was worth.

regards,
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#1217 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

Yeah and everytime Lu put on a good performance. The topic would be: "Did we trade the right guy"

Everytime whoever we got in return struggled: "We traded Luongo for crap"

Everytime Schneider lets in a bad goal or has a tough game: "We traded the wrong guy"

Once this trade is made it will be Kassian vs Cody 2.0 with the heat turned way up. Mark my words.


And?

Of course it will be discussed. This is Vancouver. But at least the players won't be showing up to the rink every day unsure of who's going to be in net, or what their role is exactly on the team.
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#1218 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

Once this trade is made it will be Kassian vs Cody 2.0 with the heat turned way up. Mark my words.


To build on this - who's fault is that? One person's - Mike Gillis.

Lu could've been dealt at the draft and this fanbase (predominantly) would've been perfectly happy with going forward with CS. Kinda like what Ray Shero did with Jordan Staal.

Mike Gillis has created a mountain out of what could've been a molehill, had he just dealt with the obvious situation of these two goaltenders at some point. Seriously, nobody to blame but himself for this.
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#1219 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

And?

Of course it will be discussed. This is Vancouver. But at least the players won't be showing up to the rink every day unsure of who's going to be in net, or what their role is exactly on the team.


That's beside the point. And that's not the issue as we discussed at the beginning.

My Point is it is the media that is the issue for the 2 as I illustrated, and that the media isn't going away regardless, so all that being said I don't really know what the debate is.
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#1220 Dragonfruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

And?

Of course it will be discussed. This is Vancouver. But at least the players won't be showing up to the rink every day unsure of who's going to be in net, or what their role is exactly on the team.

did you watch last season at all seemed to work out pretty good with the cap going down that's when it becomes a problem
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#1221 Yotes

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

not sure what was with all the kadri hate to begin with anyway. He would have immediately been our top prospect, ahead of schroeder.

for me, I would have asked for kadri, frattin and something else, i wouldnt have had interest in bozak, if we want a good 3rd line center, just sign b-Mo. You dont think we would play all out for a chance to win a cup here, he would be a great/cheap signing to fill that gap.

Not sure why he hasnt been considered, can still play schroeder till booth and kesler are back.

Not sold on raymond, yes hes scored a few but he is still a perimeter player, how many years are we gonna watch him fall down, cycle with the puck past the net all the way up to the blueline.

A deal probably should have been made priot to the start of the season, but guess MG is really holding out for a solid return, I sure hope the wait and distraction is worth it in the end... or MG and AV could be treading on thin ice, even with their new contracts, not sure how aquillini feels about all the goalie drama, never seem to hear anything out of him
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#1222 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

My Point is it is the media that is the issue for the 2 as I illustrated, and that the media isn't going away regardless, so all that being said I don't really know what the debate is.


The media would have nothing to report if the situation was resolved.

Blaming the media for putting too much attention on this is kinda like blaming your TV for being out of shape.
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#1223 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

To build on this - who's fault is that? One person's - Mike Gillis.

Lu could've been dealt at the draft and this fanbase (predominantly) would've been perfectly happy with going forward with CS. Kinda like what Ray Shero did with Jordan Staal.

Mike Gillis has created a mountain out of what could've been a molehill, had he just dealt with the obvious situation of these two goaltenders at some point. Seriously, nobody to blame but himself for this.


It doesn't matter if it was at the draft, or now. It would be the same, Media would still be all over the ups and downs of both.

It is an unavoidable part of the situation that we haven't yet experienced and it's not something I am looking forward too.

It's not really comparable to the Pittsburgh situation, because the media around that situation isn't close to what it would be in this city.

You can blame Mike Gillis, but like I said what are you blaming him for? The issue is the media, that was unavoidable either way, so you can't blame him for that.

Aside from that what is the issue? MG is holding off to help us more in the long run, it's not hard to see. It's a good move.
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#1224 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

did you watch last season at all seemed to work out pretty good with the cap going down that's when it becomes a problem


That was before Cory Schneider signed a $12M contract in the summer, presumably to no longer be our backup.
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#1225 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

The media would have nothing to report if the situation was resolved.

Blaming the media for putting too much attention on this is kinda like blaming your TV for being out of shape.


:picard:

I don't feel like having to re-type my words. So just read these.

The media would still be all over the repercussions. They aren't going anywhere.


And here's the thing. Trading Luongo now, earlier. Doesn't change anything. If we had traded Luongo in the summer it would still be a hot button topic, it would still be at the top of everyones interest.

Look at Zack vs Cody, that's the exact same situation that would happen had we, or if we trade one of them, except x1000.

Your not getting away from it either way, in some sense where we are right now might be the best situation atleast from a fans POV because in the other scenerio, after every loss there would be questions of "Did we trade the right guy" or "Did we get the right return" and if we trade Luongo now I guarentee the answer to question #2 would be no.



Yeah and everytime Lu put on a good performance. The topic would be: "Did we trade the right guy"

Everytime whoever we got in return struggled: "We traded Luongo for crap"

Everytime Schneider lets in a bad goal or has a tough game: "We traded the wrong guy"


Once this trade is made it will be Kassian vs Cody 2.0 with the heat turned way up. Mark my words.


Edited by Smashian Kassian, 01 February 2013 - 03:46 PM.

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#1226 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:49 PM

You can blame Mike Gillis, but like I said what are you blaming him for? The issue is the media, that was unavoidable either way, so you can't blame him for that.

Aside from that what is the issue? MG is holding off to help us more in the long run, it's not hard to see. It's a good move.


I'm blaming him for not dealing with the obvious logjam that we had/have at that position, which has now turned into a circus and we now have two frustrated and annoyed goaltenders.

Do you think this is everything that Schneider had envisioned, when he signed his 3-year extension in June? Think this is how he wanted to start out? As if it's not hard enough to replace the best goalie the franchise has ever had, they're not even trading him yet! :lol:

And how is holding off going to "help us more in the long run"? Huh? "It's not hard to see"? Wha? You're actually banking on the fact that a guy like George McPhee will wake up abruptly in July, and say "I've got it! Let's trade for Roberto Luongo! And let's offer Gillis a better package than he's ever seen!!"

Is that really how you see this playing out?
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#1227 Dragonfruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

That was before Cory Schneider signed a $12M contract in the summer, presumably to no longer be our backup.


doesn't matter essentially we ran with 2 number 1 goalies last year that's what im getting at and that's why its not a problem this year to do it again we know both aren't going to be together here next year its that simple it will get deal with in the off-season then the media will report day after day about which goalie is doing better creating another bs story
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#1228 Pears

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:51 PM

doesn't matter essentially we ran with 2 number 1 goalies last year that's what im getting at and that's why its not a problem this year to do it again we know both aren't going to be together here next year its that simple it will get deal with in the off-season then the media will report day after day about which goalie is doing better creating another bs story

Periods are your friends.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#1229 Dragonfruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

Periods are your friends.


either add to the discussion or go away i could really care less how my grammar is on a bloody internet forum grammar cop jeez do you people get some sort of high going out of your way to call people on bad grammar again on an internet forum just go create a thread about grammar then you can go teach people

Edited by captaincanuck88, 01 February 2013 - 03:56 PM.

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#1230 King of the ES

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

doesn't matter essentially we ran with 2 number 1 goalies last year that's what im getting at and that's why its not a problem this year to do it again we know both aren't going to be together here next year its that simple it will get deal with in the off-season then the media will report day after day about which goalie is doing better creating another bs story


That's what was said about this year. Remember?
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