Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3019 replies to this topic

#1381 Canucks_Hockey_101

Canucks_Hockey_101

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

So the back-to-back Presidents trophy winning team suddenly forgot how to play hockey? To the point where their dominant goaltender had worse stats than most of the starters for all the weaker teams?

And then, the team magically got significantly better for Schneider, so that instead of letting in 3-4 goals per game in, he let in only 1 in regulation for 3 straight? The best goaltending statistics of the playoffs?

Well then, I guess what you're saying is that the team plays better in front of Schneider in the playoffs than it does for Luongo... ...which is yet another indication that we should trade the latter.


Your back to back President's trophy team is a Moneyball, regular season team. It does not translate into great playoff performance. Hopefully having mixed it up a bit by having Kassian. On te top line, some more toughness, a healthy Kesler and Booth will do wonders.
  • 0

#1382 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

Which is an emotional response, which is not surprising, given your utter hatred and resultant inability to have any sort of objectivity when discussing the Toronto Maple Leafs.

This deal would effectively exchange Keith Ballard and Mason Raymond from today's roster for Dion Phaneuf & Phil Kessel. Yeah, highway robbery for Toronto, isn't it?


Nothing "emotional" about it whatsoever - that's the hard, cold reality - those are two of the most over-rated players in the NHL, evidenced daily on these boards. What is emotional is you calling this "hatred" = ridiculous. Emotional, defensive, adolescent thinking equates critical thinkng with 'hatred'.

You're right in one sense - with Phaneuf we would be getting another, even more highly priced third pairing defenseman. We already have to listen to enough whining regarding our outstanding blueline - with Phaneuf the complaints about his vacancy would never end.

And unlike Raymond, with Kessel we'd have a floater in our lineup taking up twice the cap hit and giving up twice as many scoring chances as he generates. His uninspired, patchwork performances would grow very old in a big hurry. Even Leafs fans, who are probably as tolerant as any, have had enough of these guys.

And I see the Schneider, Schroeder and a 1st are an afterthought for you.
That would be the rebuild on the go that the Leafs desperately need - but not at our expense thanks.

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2013 - 12:46 PM.

  • 1

#1383 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

Your back to back President's trophy team is a Moneyball, regular season team. It does not translate into great playoff performance. Hopefully having mixed it up a bit by having Kassian. On te top line, some more toughness, a healthy Kesler and Booth will do wonders.


You're noting the value of more toughness and proposing to add Phil Kessel on the same page?
"Good morning, this is your wake up call."
  • 0

#1384 Canucks_Hockey_101

Canucks_Hockey_101

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:43 PM

Dude, give it up. The world is not out to get the Vancouver Canucks. TSN does not root against the Vancouver Canucks. Nor do NHL officials, as much as I'm sure you believe that they do. Canuck fans really are the "Quebec" of NHL contingents, aren't they? Just remove the soother and the tin foil hat, please.

Anyway, it is fairly obvious that Cory Schneider is not happy with the situation. Nor is your homeboy Luongo, who did not expect to be here (and he didn't expect to be here because he had asked to be moved).


If I were you, I'd take your own advice on the Tim hat... We're seeing some of the best goaltending ever from Luongo. Schneider's "unhappiness" is in fact sensationalization from none other than TSN and Liongo NEVER asked for a trade. He played along. The best way to fend off an enemy is to surrender and take back what is yours from within.
  • 0

#1385 Edlerberry

Edlerberry

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,245 posts
  • Joined: 01-February 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

Don't care for this trade if they're going to play on the Canucks. However, what might the Canucks get for Kessel and Phaneuf if Gillis flipped them to other teams?

regards,
G.


Probably similar to what Toronto would get if they sent them to other teams?

Why would we trade 5 valuable pieces to get assets we don't even want?

regards,

that was dumb
  • 3
July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#1386 Canucks_Hockey_101

Canucks_Hockey_101

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

First I thought you were a media conspiracy nut job.
Then came .2 cents .7 cents, wtf? Stopped reading.

I specifically asked for a link that Canucks had declared CS the starter and Luongo the backup. Not what ever you posted.



Was same announcement made in game 6, game 7, and game 8 of the 2012/13 season?


Dude. Calm down. There never was a quotable statement regarding a request for trade, a statement regarding who's number one, or even Schneider's emotional state regarding the matter.
  • 0

#1387 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

Hey King - your crush on the Leafs is cute.
What's stopping you from taking your affections over there?
  • 1

#1388 playboi19

playboi19

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,379 posts
  • Joined: 15-August 08

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:50 PM

Trade Schneider And Luongo.

Cannata is our new starter.
  • 0

Subbancopy.jpg


#1389 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

And unlike Raymond, with Kessel we'd have a floater in our lineup taking up twice the cap hit and giving up twice as many scoring chances as he generates. His uninspired, patchwork performances would grow very old in a big hurry. Even Leafs fans, who are probably as tolerant as any, have had enough of these guys.


A floater. The guy's averaging just under 5 SOG/game. That should bode well for his corsi score, should it not?

:bigblush:

Really silly to call him a floater.

And I see the Schneider, Schroeder and a 1st are an afterthought for you.
That would be the rebuild on the go that the Leafs desperately need - but not at our expense thanks.


Nope, not an afterthought, but for the purposes of this trade, this year, you're effectively swapping out Raymond & Ballard for Kessel & Phaneuf - a massive upgrade. Schroeder's looked good and it'd hurt to lose him, and it'd also hurt to lose Schneider (though 1 guy clearly has to go), but it would be nuts to say no to this deal.
  • 0

#1390 Gollumpus

Gollumpus

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,744 posts
  • Joined: 01-July 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

Probably similar to what Toronto would get if they sent them to other teams?

Why would we trade 5 valuable pieces to get assets we don't even want?

regards,

that was dumb


Missed the point, but oh well.

regards,
G.
  • 0
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#1391 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:07 PM

A floater. The guy's averaging just under 5 SOG/game. That should bode well for his corsi score, should it not?

:bigblush:

Really silly to call him a floater.



Nope, not an afterthought, but for the purposes of this trade, this year, you're effectively swapping out Raymond & Ballard for Kessel & Phaneuf - a massive upgrade. Schroeder's looked good and it'd hurt to lose him, and it'd also hurt to lose Schneider (though 1 guy clearly has to go), but it would be nuts to say no to this deal.


King - the longer you resist learning the harder life gets.
Averaging that many shots certainly does not contradict the idea that he's a floater King - in fact, by definition, it would indicate that.
Do you know what's good for Kessel's corsi? The fact he is one of the Leafs facing the weakest quality of competition on that team - and getting a high percentage of offensive zone starts. What does that tell you, when 'top line' players typically face the opposition's best? Where the Leafs are concerned, that falls upon their best forwards - Grabovski and MacArthur. A one trick sniper who has a 0% shooting percentage - let's give up the farm for this guy lol.
I'd take Kadri over Kessel in a heartbeat and never look back - and I'm not sold on Kadri nor do I see him as a very good fit, but at least we wouldn't be married to an anchor.

That deal would be a window closer smasher. Awful. Your blue and white colours are really showing.

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2013 - 01:14 PM.

  • 0

#1392 WHL rocks

WHL rocks

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,615 posts
  • Joined: 09-May 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

Dude. Calm down. There never was a quotable statement regarding a request for trade, a statement regarding who's number one, or even Schneider's emotional state regarding the matter.


Umm, yes there was. AV said Lu wanted out in the summer. MG said Lu asked for a trade just a couple of days ago.
  • 1

#1393 King of the ES

King of the ES

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,272 posts
  • Joined: 27-May 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

Do you know what's good for Kessel's corsi? The fact he is one of the Leafs facing the weakest quality of competition on that team - and getting a high percentage of offensive zone starts. What does that tell you, when 'top line' players typically face the opposition's best. Where the Leafs are concerned, that falls upon their best forwards - Grabovski and MacArthur.
I'd take Kadri over Kessel in a heartbeat and never look back.


Yes. Quality of Competition. Another "advanced" which just averages opponents' corsi scores - which is based almost entirely on SOG.

Hockey is not baseball. You can't isolate singular events in a hockey game like you can in baseball - pitcher v. hitter, no matter how hard these Bill James wannabes try.

You're ignoring fundamental things like goals and points, in exchange for these numbers dreamed up by hockey bloggers. OK.
  • 0

#1394 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

So the back-to-back Presidents trophy winning team suddenly forgot how to play hockey? To the point where their dominant goaltender had worse stats than most of the starters for all the weaker teams?

And then, the team magically got significantly better for Schneider, so that instead of letting in 3-4 goals per game in, he let in only 1 in regulation for 3 straight? The best goaltending statistics of the playoffs?

Well then, I guess what you're saying is that the team plays better in front of Schneider in the playoffs than it does for Luongo... ...which is yet another indication that we should trade the latter.


I'm always glad to see you posting in this thread. It can get a little barren otherwise.
  • 0

#1395 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

Yes. Quality of Competition. Another "advanced" which just averages opponents' corsi scores - which is based almost entirely on SOG.

Hockey is not baseball. You can't isolate singular events in a hockey game like you can in baseball - pitcher v. hitter, no matter how hard these Bill James wannabes try.

You're ignoring fundamental things like goals and points, in exchange for these numbers dreamed up by hockey bloggers. OK.


Leafs fans don't typically resort to denial - they opt for humour and paper bags - much healthier.
How many goals has Kessel scored?
How many has the opposition scored with him 'patrolling' his own end?
He's a -40 as a Leaf, but of course, you see that as his team-mates fault, right?
Connolly, Liles, Lombardi, Phaneuf, Komisarek - those were the Leafs worst +/- players last year... you may not see a common thread there, but I do. Phaneuf and Kessel are right on track once again - I suppose it's just a perennial coincidence. In Phaneuf's case, at least he is faced with the task of playing against the other team's best, in a role as captain and #1 that is over his head. Kessel - just a one trick player who when not producing is a liability that the Leafs are probably looking to move.

Edited by oldnews, 02 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.

  • 0

#1396 westcoast

westcoast

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,391 posts
  • Joined: 21-January 03

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:34 PM

Why are people hyping the goalie thing?Vignault has been win and your in since day 1.For the record I agree with him,if you want to rack up wins why would you do it any other way?
  • 0

#1397 Canucks_Hockey_101

Canucks_Hockey_101

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,195 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:46 PM

VAN
Byfuglien
Kane

WPG
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
Schroeder
1st

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 02 February 2013 - 01:47 PM.

  • 0

#1398 Everybody Hates Raymond

Everybody Hates Raymond

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,602 posts
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:52 PM


Strombone@strombone1

Being a backup is a lot funner than I anticipated.........



:lol:

  • 0

#1399 Garrison

Garrison

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 851 posts
  • Joined: 04-July 12

Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

VAN
Byfuglien
Kane

WPG
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
Schroeder
1st

Although I think Pavelec is extremely over rated and isn't a very good goalie, Winnipeg disagrees with me. They have trust in him.
  • 0

#1400 eretz canucks

eretz canucks

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 821 posts
  • Joined: 21-November 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:29 PM

Pshaw.

No one. Why would you be interested in Luongo when you could be like Toronto and have a goalie who generally lets in 1 bad goal every game. :P



Easy now, you are talking about the maple leafs right?
You mean Reimer who was "the reason they hung in against the rangers last week?"
When really he had no clue where the puck was on the first goal (he was sitting on it)
And blew the tying goal- slapped from the point beat him short side, unscreened- yet they think Reimer is better for them now, in the long run or both...

  • 0

#1401 Mike Vanderhoek

Mike Vanderhoek

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,052 posts
  • Joined: 31-August 09

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

Dude. Calm down. There never was a quotable statement regarding a request for trade, a statement regarding who's number one, or even Schneider's emotional state regarding the matter.


I like this, perhaps we could stop with so many assumptions about the state of this matter lol.
  • 0
Posted Image

#1402 eretz canucks

eretz canucks

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 821 posts
  • Joined: 21-November 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

Although I think Pavelec is extremely over rated and isn't a very good goalie, Winnipeg disagrees with me. They have trust in him.


Pavelec has been G D awful this year, Schneider would be considered a god in Winnipeg.
Schneider, Raymond, 2014 1st for Kane and 2013 3rd
  • 0

#1403 eretz canucks

eretz canucks

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 821 posts
  • Joined: 21-November 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:33 PM


Strombone ‏@strombone1

Being a backup is a lot funner than I anticipated.........



:lol:


I think he means "a lot more fun"
Got to love his humorous side- glad we are finally seeing it

Edited by eretz canucks, 02 February 2013 - 02:34 PM.

  • 0

#1404 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,198 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

A few good games doesn't change the fact that he's about 8 weeks away from being 34, he's signed until 2022, and the Canucks are in a very weak bargaining position.

Nothing at all has changed. You don't actually think that a guy like Dave Nonis is going to make a serious investment decision like this on the basis of 1 or 2 games, do you?


The thing is, This isn't new, Luongo has always been this good.

You don't think this is a brand new level of preformence from him do you?

The offer is perfectly reasonable, we are talking about an all-star goaltender, you gotta give value to get value.
  • 0

zackass.png


#1405 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,198 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

IMO the Canucks desperately need a player like Gardiner. They are horrible at bringing the puck up the ice wether it be on the PP or 5 on 5. Canucks DO NOT have a fast smooth skating that can carry the puck up the ice. Edler, Hamhuis, Ballard etc are decent at it but not exceptional. Look at how successful the PP was when Ehrhoff was here and he has lots of flaws, their PP was 1st in the league and hasn't been close since. Watching the PP last night was brutal, they couldnt even break the blueline on a 5 on 3. The drop pass is ridiculously predictable, they have no one that can successfully break the line consistently. A true offensive dman is a glaring weakness in the Canucks system.

Gardiner >>>> Kadri

Lu, Sauve, 3rd
For
Gardiner and Bozak/Frattin


That deal won't get it done, and I disagree I think Ballard and Edler are capable.
  • 0

zackass.png


#1406 playboi19

playboi19

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,379 posts
  • Joined: 15-August 08

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

Posted Image
  • 2

Subbancopy.jpg


#1407 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,198 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

Dude. Calm down. There never was a quotable statement regarding a request for trade, a statement regarding who's number one, or even Schneider's emotional state regarding the matter.


MG said a few days ago on the radio that Luongo requested a move.


VAN
Byfuglien
Kane

WPG
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
Schroeder
1st


I'm sure Winnipeg would be delighted to give up their two best players, for a young goalie (When they already have a very good one) and a bunch of scraps.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 02 February 2013 - 02:48 PM.

  • 0

zackass.png


#1408 Neversummer

Neversummer

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,989 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:54 PM

Change the plan Gillis, keep Lui and trade Schneider.
  • 0

#1409 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,198 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

I totally agree. In fact, I would still pull the trigger if we had to add a 1st rounder (although, I'd also want one of their goalies coming back to play back-up).

I think the one thing this team could use more than anything is a pure sniper, who can create offense out of nothing, and put the puck in the net even if he is being defended perfectly. It would give us a new look, especially in the playoffs. It seems all the other team has to do is take away the time and space for Sedins to make tic-tac-toe plays, take the slot away from Kesler, and BOOM! - we got nothin.


I agree with you and King aswell, we would be insane not to do it.

Aslong as their are no futures like Kassian or Jensen, exc. Because Kessel wouldn't be easy for us to keep, we would get 1.5 years out of him, then we would have to ante up to keep him, who knows if we can do that.

Obviously it's all hypothetical talk, cause I don't see anyways they would part with them. Like King I am surprised it has come up but it has been blown our of proportion as Dreger has clearly stated they aren't shopping Kessel and that he isn't on the market.

VAN
Kessel
Phaneuf

TOR
Schneider
Ballard
Raymond
Schroeder
1st


Can you stop with your crappy Schneider offers, Luongo is going.
  • 0

zackass.png


#1410 oldnews

oldnews

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,133 posts
  • Joined: 30-March 11

Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:58 PM

MG said a few days ago on the radio that Luongo requested a move.

[size=4]

I'm sure Winnipeg would be delighted to give up their two best players, for a young goalie (When they already have a very good one) and a bunch of scraps.


Wow. Easily your worst post.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.