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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1501 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:39 AM

Who gives MG a free pass?

Most agree that the Ballard trade has not worked out for the best. But MG is still pretty good on the body of his work, but equally worthy of critique (last year and this seasons context) that he has not put the finishing touches on this team despite having asset's including Lou and Ballard to dangle.

.

It's strange that MG gets a pass for the Ballard trade, calling it "hindsight" (making it somehow more acceptable), yet Burke is ridiculed for this trade, which I'd call a pretty reasonable gamble that didn't go in his direction. Had Toronto finished better in 2010 & 2011, it would've been an absolute steal. How many other 30-goal scorers in their early 20s are there?


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#1502 tas

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:05 PM

so gillis and gilman are watching was-pit today (as per news thread)?

to washington:

schneider
kesler
booth
1st/2nd

to vancouver:

holtby
backstrom
ovechkin

haaa
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#1503 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

Why is Van looking to trade Lou? For the same reason I support Gillis's move to trade Lou the same applies to Brzy. Lou would be an upgrade since his 'playoff' troubles have been less than those of Brzy. Three strong games by Lou doesn't change the fact that CS is fundamently a better tender, cost less and has a shorter contract. I don't write Philly off.

I do until they find a way to deal with Bryz. Same with NYI and DiPietro. There's very little chance we take either back in a deal, so those teams would have to find some way to get rid of them before we send them Lu.

For instance, Philly has less than $2M in cap space, and if we won't take contracts they don't want like Bryz, they can't fit in Lu. They won't move a D-man, so that means one of Giroux, Hartnell, Voracek or Briere for the only other contracts that'd work and I doubt they move anyone but Briere who is probably too expensive for us. If we get back a combination of lesser salaries, then they still have to replace those players with someone of reasonable quality so the cap hit comes back anyway.
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#1504 niklas

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:41 PM

Lp
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#1505 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

Who gives MG a free pass?

Most agree that the Ballard trade has not worked out for the best. But MG is still pretty good on the body of his work, but equally worthy of critique (last year and this seasons context) that he has not put the finishing touches on this team despite having asset's including Lou and Ballard to dangle.

I'd even argue the Kessel deal and the Ballard deal aren't really comparable.

If Toronto doesn't make that trade, they don't lose their 1st rounders and there's a strong chance you feel they get much better to build you team with. Van lost their 1st, but they knew exactly where they stood with that, and were aware they could likely lose Grabner if he had a bad camp again, plus Bernier who was likely on his way out without a significant reduction in salary.

Then you have to look at the player performance. Kessel obviously hasn't been a disappointment himself, as they likely expected they get marginal defence along with the offence. Ballard on the other hand has disappointed, not being as reliable defensively and not producing offensively even if he was blocking shots and making hits.

Gillis knew exactly what he was giving up but what he got back didn't work like he hoped, while Burke was gambling a little on what he was giving up while he did get what he was expecting in return (at least in individual player performance).

To tie it all back into Luongo, Gillis is going to be patient with this deal to make sure he gets something back that helps us. He isn't in danger of losing Luongo to waivers, or having him suddenly become a bigger asset (akin to the Leafs' 1sts getting so much better than expected) that he could have got (significantly) more for. He knows what he expects back out of a deal, and is willing to wait for that return, which is different from upping expectations based on recent play.

Edited by elvis15, 03 February 2013 - 12:50 PM.

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#1506 TheRussianRocket96

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

here comes kuznetsov!
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#1507 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

McGuire and co. speculating on Gillis being at the Wash/Pitts game:
  • Not likely a casual scouting trip
  • Van has two good goalies in play, very complimentary of Luongo's recent play with no negative talk
  • Suggesting Wash prospects are a possible option, with Orlov, Kuznetsov and Forsberg mentioned specifically
  • Oates under pressure

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#1508 oldnews

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

I want Dmitry Orlov in a Lu to Washington deal.


You may just get what you want. I would much rather see Orlov in a deal than Gardiner tbh - the similar skill set with the extra 25lbs on his frame and imo better two way potential makes him look like a pretty reasonable target.
Orlov and Forsberg - get er done MG - and throw in one of them RFA goalies Washington (and a 1st lol).
But we all know how sweet MG is on John Carlson. :)
Anyway, no need to respond with "we won't be getting so and so"... ok?
Simply expressing that I concur with Orlov being a primary piece in a deal - and with MG watching the Caps surrender 6, no doubt it's gonna heat up the speculation...

Edited by oldnews, 03 February 2013 - 01:13 PM.

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#1509 oldnews

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

Bryz isn't the reason Philly is losing right now.

It was his first playoffs ever, in a crazy series against Malkin, Stall, and Crosby


Huh?
http://flyers.nhl.co....htm?id=8468524


I wonder if there are Philly fans out there saying:

-"I watched Luongo against Boston in the SCF - just doesn't make sense"
-"I watched Luongo get pulled against the Kings for the series - just doesn't make sense"
-"I watched Luongo get lit-up against Chicago for 3 consecutive years - just doesn't make sense"


Luongo is a better playoff goaltender - has 32 playoff wins and a lifetime .916 sv % = .003 off his regular season lifetime % and say what you want about him, he has never played as consistently terrible as Bryz in his past two playoff performances - just awful every night.
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#1510 70seven

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:47 PM

interesting that gillis and gillman are in Washington today.... As i was watching the game, I was thinking how good a fit Lui might be with the Caps.

blockbuster trade proposal:

Roberto Luongo, Alex Edler, Mason Raymond
for
John Carlson, Troy Brouwer, Michal Neuvirth, Filip Forsberg, 1st round pick

(Broken down: Edler/Raymond for Carlson/Brouwer and Luongo for Neuvirth, Forsberg, 1st)


Edler is a better top end D-man than Carlson at the moment and imo would fit very nicley into that Adam Oates offence. Carlson is a younger natural RD whos already a top pairing D-man, and has a more appealing cap hit than Edler at just under 4M untill the 17/18 season.

Brouwer can slot in anywhere in the lineup on the right side, helping the forecheck and physicallity of the team. This is an improvement needed to get through the West imo.

Neuvirth is a young tender that can play backup and even push Schneider to maintian a top level performance. Neuvirth out dueled Schneider in the Calder Cup Finals a couple years back. This would also allow for the teams wish to get Eddie Lack another full AHL season in to furthur develop his game, and continued depth at that position.

Forsberg and a 1st are the young assets coveted in the return for Luongo, and would replace the organizational depth at C after moving Hodgson.


Healthy post trade lineup:

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Burrows
Higgins - Schroeder - Brouwer
Volpatti - Lapierre - Hansen
Weise
Malhotra
Ebbett

Hamhuis - Carlson
Garrison - Bieksa
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts
Barker

Schneider
Neuvirth

Prospects:
Forsberg
Jensen
Gaunce
Lack
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#1511 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

You may just get what you want. I would much rather see Orlov in a deal than Gardiner tbh - the similar skill set with the extra 25lbs on his frame and imo better two way potential makes him look like a pretty reasonable target.
Orlov and Forsberg - get er done MG - and throw in one of them RFA goalies Washington (and a 1st lol).
But we all know how sweet MG is on John Carlson. :)
Anyway, no need to respond with "we won't be getting so and so"... ok?
Simply expressing that I concur with Orlov being a primary piece in a deal - and with MG watching the Caps surrender 6, no doubt it's gonna heat up the speculation...

See, this is why I don't ignore you completely, a reasonable post - one which I'd think many of us here would agree on! Orlov is more enticing to me than Gardiner, and I'd be interested in a secondary prospect like Galiev even and a pick but we'd have to see just how desperate they are.

...
Luongo is a better playoff goaltender - has 32 playoff wins and a lifetime .916 sv % = .003 off his regular season lifetime % and say what you want about him, he has never played as consistently terrible as Bryz in his past two playoff performances - just awful every night.

Again, I agree. Luongo has a much better record in the playoffs. Even if one puts all the blame on him for the blowouts he's been our best player in any number of other playoff games, like with his shutouts against the Bruins or even the tough losses to LA. Bryz hasn't proven much if anything in the last three years, and it's only his time with Anaheim in the playoffs that helps his resume.

I still say you aren't going to win arguing with King though, that's an exercise in futility.

Edited by elvis15, 03 February 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#1512 King of the ES

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

Luongo is a better playoff goaltender - has 32 playoff wins and a lifetime .916 sv % = .003 off his regular season lifetime % and say what you want about him, he has never played as consistently terrible as Bryz in his past two playoff performances - just awful every night.


Bryz's lifetime playoff SVP is .908, so out of 100 shots, Luongo will stop 0.8 more.

Perhaps better, but so much better to necessitate an expensive buyout and parting ways with a/some young asset(s)? Don't bet on it.
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#1513 Goal:thecup

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

McGuire and co. speculating on Gillis being at the Wash/Pitts game:

  • Not likely a casual scouting trip
  • Van has two good goalies in play, very complimentary of Luongo's recent play with no negative talk
  • Suggesting Wash prospects are a possible option, with Orlov, Kuznetsov and Forsberg mentioned specifically
  • Oates under pressure

You may just get what you want. I would much rather see Orlov in a deal than Gardiner tbh - the similar skill set with the extra 25lbs on his frame and imo better two way potential makes him look like a pretty reasonable target.
Orlov and Forsberg - get er done MG - and throw in one of them RFA goalies Washington (and a 1st lol).
But we all know how sweet MG is on John Carlson. :)
Anyway, no need to respond with "we won't be getting so and so"... ok?
Simply expressing that I concur with Orlov being a primary piece in a deal - and with MG watching the Caps surrender 6, no doubt it's gonna heat up the speculation...


Great stuff, "not likely a casual scouting trip" and I love seeing the names of these great up and coming players listed as possible parts in a Luongo trade:
Orlov
Forsberg
Carlson

Dare to dream would be Orlov, Forsberg, and a 1st.

(I am biased against Russians and do not feel they are worth the risks, so no thanks to OV, or Kuznetsov.)


If Gillis is still stuck on "a player, a prospect, and a pick", what is Forsberg? A Player and a Prospect?

We might get Forsberg as a prospect and a player to slot in for now, perhaps "one of them RFA goalies" mentioned above.

It might be easier to get a higher pick from Washington if it was an exchange of picks, for example, our 3rd for their 2nd, or our 1st for their 1st.

Orlov, Carlson, and a swap of picks?

If Washington was one of the teams that:
a. needed to do something about a player, what might they have done?
b. wanted Gillis to take back a bad contract, how has that been resolved?

Yahoo! Looks like it is going to get done soon.

Edited by Goal:thecup, 03 February 2013 - 01:57 PM.

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#1514 King of the ES

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:57 PM

Great stuff, "not likely a casual scouting trip" and I love seeing the names of these great up and coming players listed as possible parts in a Luongo trade:
Orlov
Forsberg
Carlson

Dare to dream would be Orlov, Forsberg, and a 1st.

(I am biased against Russians and do not feel they are worth the risks, so no thanks to OV, or Kuznetsov.)


If Gillis is still stuck on "a player, a prospect, and a pick", what is Forsberg? A Player and a Prospect?

We might get Forsberg as a prospect and a player to slot in for now, perhaps "one of them RFA goalies" mentioned above.

It might be easier to get a higher pick from Washington if it was an exchange of picks, for example, our 3rd for their 2nd, or our 1st for their 1st.

Orlov, Carlson, and a swap of picks?

If Washington was one of the teams that:
a) needed to do something about a player, what might they have done?
B) wanted Gillis to take back a bad contract, how has that been resolved?

Yahoo! Looks like it is going to get done soon.



Katie Carrera@kcarrera

I'm told rumors of #Caps interest in Roberto Luongo are completely unfounded. There hasn't been a single discussion about acquiring him.


Stephen Whyno@SWhyno
#Caps have not have single conversation about Roberto Luongo with#Canucks. Any trade speculation is unfounded.

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#1515 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:08 PM

Katie Carrera@kcarrera
I'm told rumors of #Caps interest in Roberto Luongo are completely unfounded. There hasn't been a single discussion about acquiring him.

Stephen Whyno@SWhyno
#Caps have not have single conversation about Roberto Luongo with#Canucks. Any trade speculation is unfounded.


Both valid sources but we've seen so many people "in the know" who have predicted things happening on twitter that simply haven't come to pass. It's a safe bet to say these folks; reporters or otherwise, don't always have their finger on the pulse. Perhaps the trade isn't for Luongo. Who knows.
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#1516 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

* A thought: I doubt an American team esp. wants to make a move for Luongo on Super Bowl day... Management will want a trade like that noticed to bring in more fans.. IMO.
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#1517 TmanVan

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:12 PM

Katie Carrera@kcarrera
I'm told rumors of #Caps interest in Roberto Luongo are completely unfounded. There hasn't been a single discussion about acquiring him.

Stephen Whyno@SWhyno
#Caps have not have single conversation about Roberto Luongo with#Canucks. Any trade speculation is unfounded.


Because gm's love to tell the media who they are interested in right?
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#1518 oldnews

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

Katie Carrera@kcarrera
I'm told rumors of #Caps interest in Roberto Luongo are completely unfounded. There hasn't been a single discussion about acquiring him.

Stephen Whyno@SWhyno
#Caps have not have single conversation about Roberto Luongo with#Canucks. Any trade speculation is unfounded.


I'll file this in the opposite folder to Shannon's 'Luongo to Toronto a done deal'.
With Gallagher as an example, I'll say that not all local print media have any clue whatsoever what their GM is actually up to.
How many GMs apprise media of pending deals? Is there a single GM who does that?

To take that a step further, there are very solid reasons in negotiation that you would do the exact opposite, and deny any talks whatsoever regardless - first, to not tip your hand about the level of interest you may have, and second, to avoid giving a cue to any other potential bidders.

Gills and Gilman on the other hand show their presence, because they too are playing hardball? (or are merely interested in a side deal for a young RFA backup? :P )

Edited by oldnews, 03 February 2013 - 02:26 PM.

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#1519 Lonny_Bohonos_14

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:21 PM


Katie Carrera ‏@kcarrera

I'm told rumors of #Caps interest in Roberto Luongo are completely unfounded. There hasn't been a single discussion about acquiring him.


Stephen Whyno ‏@SWhyno
#Caps have not have single conversation about Roberto Luongo with#Canucks. Any trade speculation is unfounded.


@wyshynski: @FriedgeHNIC Quite the push-back there from the Caps. #DothProtestTooMuch

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#1520 DeNiro

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:23 PM

I'm sure Gillis flew 4000 km just to scout the Capitals chili fries...

Why would those reporters be so naive. Washington needs a legit goaltender, Gillis has one for the right price. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together.

Edited by DeNiro, 03 February 2013 - 02:34 PM.

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#1521 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

Well this is precisely why I wish you would - you are relentlessly patronizing.

Man, you can't even take the compliment that it was a reasonable post. Even with sarcastic stuff in the middle about you putting up the ideal return where you reminded everyone they didn't need to reply to that part, so I ignored it as you suggested.

It'd be great if you'd reply to the topic at hand, is there anything about my post other than what you bolded that's interesting? What do you think of Galiev or do they have to send us back a goalie (versus sending Holtby back to the AHL or trading one separately)? How about if Bryz's playoff experience from Anaheim has much impact on his comparison to Luongo?
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#1522 King of the ES

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

I'll file this in the opposite folder to Shannon's 'Luongo to Toronto a done deal'.
With Gallagher as an example, I'll say that not all local print media have any clue whatsoever what their GM is actually up to.
How many GMs apprise media of pending deals? Is there a single GM who does that?


OK, so McGuire inferring that it's "more than likely not just a casual trip" is enough to fuel pages and pages of new speculation and proposals, but Washington's sources are completely unfounded for saying that they're not interested in Luongo.

Is that what you're saying? And wouldn't Pierre McGuire be considered a member of the media himself, which thus invalidate your last two sentences?
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#1523 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:28 PM

I'm sure Gillis flew 4000 km just to scout the Capitals chili fries...

Why would those reporters be so naive. Washington needs a legit goaltender, Gillis has one for the right price. It doesn't take a genious to put two and two together.

:bigblush:

Sorry, but I had to!

You're right though, it's not like we were playing in the area before or after this game, and we haven't (yet) seen Gillis and Gilman at any other games. It's certainly suggestive.
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#1524 Dasein

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

Anyone who thinks MG is going to pull the trigger on any deal involving one of our goaltenders before Ryan Kesler and David Booth comes back is out to lunch on this situation.

Gillis hasn't even had the chance to evaluate his full and complete roster to assess which positions need to be addressed in return for a goaltender... And knowing how meticulous Gillis is, don't expect us to make any moves before we have a chance to see how good our team is in front of both Roberto and Cory...

If our team looks dominant, and I mean 2011 dominant, I can easily see Gillis standing pat and going into the playoffs with two elite goaltenders. The only difference is, Schneider is on par with Luongo this time, and if Luongo falters, AV won't hesitate to put Schneider in - say games like games 4 or 6 vs Boston.

This is the best case scenario I can see for us in this shortened season - if we are a dominant elite team upon Kesler and Booth's return, stand pat with two elite goaltenders, and add a couple depth pieces using draft picks if the opportunity presents itself.
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#1525 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

Man, you can't even take the compliment that it was a reasonable post. Even with sarcastic stuff in the middle about you putting up the ideal return where you reminded everyone they didn't need to reply to that part, so I ignored it as you suggested.

It'd be great if you'd reply to the topic at hand, is there anything about my post other than what you bolded that's interesting? What do you think of Galiev or do they have to send us back a goalie (versus sending Holtby back to the AHL or trading one separately)? How about if Bryz's playoff experience from Anaheim has much impact on his comparison to Luongo?

To be fair your compliment was reasonably back handed.
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#1526 higgyfan

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

Can't see MG and LG making a 'casual' trip to Washington. It may have nothing to do with Lu, but I would think they're looking at someone. Carlson was on the infamous "top 5 for Coho" list, but that would demand +++ in return. Whatever happened to Eric Fehr? He seems to have fallen off the map of late. Sounds like a MG reclamation project.

If it is about Lu, then I think Carlson would be coming back.

Lu, Ballard, Hansen/Higgins

Carlson, Fehr, Backup G
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#1527 Garrison

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:43 PM

I love how half the people here want to trade Schneider now. Like holy, I thought I didn't have patience. We are not trading Schneider unless we get a really good younger player with star talent. Those trades are extremely hard to come by so for awhile we're going to have both Lu and Schneider in net. The Boston Bruins won with two starting goalies and so will we. I wouldn't mind trading Luongo in the off season so teams like Philli can be in the conversation. Schneider is still our future, Lu aien't getting any younger.
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#1528 TmanVan

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

OK, so McGuire inferring that it's "more than likely not just a casual trip" is enough to fuel pages and pages of new speculation and proposals, but Washington's sources are completely unfounded for saying that they're not interested in Luongo.

Is that what you're saying? And wouldn't Pierre McGuire be considered a member of the media himself, which thus invalidate your last two sentences?


Putting two and two together anybody should be able to see that missing their own teams game on friday night to fly to Washington clearly shows there is something going on. Its funny that you refuse to aknowledge that, but a reporter who simply asks the gm "hey are you interested in Luongo" and gets the reply No, you believe. Because Gm's have to be honest to the media? Do they like telling them inside information??
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#1529 elvis15

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

Some talk on twitter after the Caps game:


bruce dowbiggin@dowbboy

@benkuzma @Buz_Meg Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Johanssen, Orlov. Leonsis wants to win now, what will he sacrifice?


Greg Wyshynski@wyshynski

@AvidNucksFan Honestly, if I were VAN: Brouwer, one of Filip Forsberg/Kuznetsov; Marcus Johansson ... some targets. But GMGM doesn't overpay


Looks like Ed is getting in on the best case scenarios too:


Ed Willes@willesonsports

Let's see. Kuznetsov, Alzner, Carlson and Green for Luongo. Plus the Canucks will throw in a third-rounder.


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c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#1530 BenDrinkin

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

Bryz's lifetime playoff SVP is .908, so out of 100 shots, Luongo will stop 0.8 more.

Perhaps better, but so much better to necessitate an expensive buyout and parting ways with a/some young asset(s)? Don't bet on it.


Brizi is horrible, why are you even arguing?
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