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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1621 Monty

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

^^^This. As sad as I am to see Luo leave, his stock is rising right now. Let's face it, the Canucks are not playing very well. Luo is proving, yet again, that he is good enough to keep a team in the playoff race, regardless of how they are playing. For a team that is rebuilding, they won't need him. However, for teams like the Capitals, they need him.

Gone are the days where Ovechkin could dominate the game by himself. Right now, the Caps cannot win unless they have a goaltender they can rely on. There are some teams in a similar situation, by the Caps are by far going to be the team most willing to give up exactly what Gillis is looking for.

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#1622 Kassian's Face

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

So, just in the overall picture, something I was wondering about - the Capitals beat reporters were very quick to come out and say that no Luongo trades had been discussed. Did they offer any other reason why G&G were in the building today?


Yes all the reporters are saying WSH is not interested in Lu. So is there not the possibility that Gillis wasn't there to talk with the Caps, but instead was there talking with their opponents, the Penguins?

#1623 elvis15

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:00 AM

Or it's a deal unrelated to Luongo.

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If this team lets go of Sang he will burn this team next year.

 


#1624 Merci

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:16 AM

Holtby allows us to run 2 young goalies that have proven to be sublime in the playoffs.

Gillis is betting Schneider will make Holtby better.

This is the perfect situation where the argument about only have one capable goalie will be null and void after this trade.

Luongo
Raymond
Schroeder
1st

Laich
Brouwer
Holtby
Orlov

Why do we do this? Why does it make us better?

Well we get much bigger all of a sudden, lot's of people are suggesting Marcus Johannson, just can't do it. Laich wants a cup too badly and him and Brouwer on the third line would be legendary. Two people in their prime with as much playoff experience as any of our players.

Their size and ability to score would simply be too much.

We would finally have the size of 4 of our top 9 forwards to balance out the opposition.


Sedin Sedin Kassian
Booth Kesler Burrows
Hansen Laich Brouwer
Higgins Lapierre Volpatti

No plugs, no gaps, have Weise and Manny ready to come help when injuries happen.

Orlov makes the deal possible for us to do.

Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#1625 stawns

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:17 AM

Yes all the reporters are saying WSH is not interested in Lu. So is there not the possibility that Gillis wasn't there to talk with the Caps, but instead was there talking with their opponents, the Penguins?


I find it very hard to believe the media saying Washington has no interest in Luongo. How could they not?

#1626 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

Or it's a deal unrelated to Luongo.


Yep.

Or it's part of a 2-game trip and this one was just a masquerade to pump up the market, just as his comment about "a potential deal" probably was.

DeNiro brought up a good point - if GMDT thinks WSH might be interested, his division rival will be hard to score against for the next 7+ seasons. Therefore, he might want to get on with it.

Anyway, GMMG & LG are clearly clever guys & this probably was a well-calculated trip.

#1627 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

Yes all the reporters are saying WSH is not interested in Lu. So is there not the possibility that Gillis wasn't there to talk with the Caps, but instead was there talking with their opponents, the Penguins?


Reporters know nothing. Just like how our reporters had no clue there is a trade in place for Luongo. If reporters know nothing, then the GM is doing a good job.

This is exactly what Holmdrem did in Philly. He said Richards and Carter are untouchables. They are like "sons" to Dan Synder. Less then a year later, both are no longer Flyers.

Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#1628 Tangelos

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

I'm fed up with Gillis playing games with us. Stop dicking around and get a deal done.

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#1629 stawns

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

I'm fed up with Gillis playing games with us. Stop dicking around and get a deal done.


I'm starting to agree with you, and though it seems like a bit of a gong show and distraction to the team, I am hoping that inside the locker room, everyone knows what is going on and is able to ignore the media orgy around this whole thing. If not, MG has mishandled this situation.

Edited by stawns, 04 February 2013 - 10:38 AM.


#1630 Boudrias

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Yep.

Or it's part of a 2-game trip and this one was just a masquerade to pump up the market, just as his comment about "a potential deal" probably was.

DeNiro brought up a good point - if GMDT thinks WSH might be interested, his division rival will be hard to score against for the next 7+ seasons. Therefore, he might want to get on with it.

Anyway, GMMG & LG are clearly clever guys & this probably was a well-calculated trip.

The SE Division has to discount their players in any trade simply because they are in the SE Division!:) Seriously! Their stats are pumped up by a unbalanced sched that let's them play one another far to much. The goal tending is the only thing close to bonafide as they get so much practise.

Lou comes out of Edmonton with another win and Gillis's phone keeps on ringing. I expect a deal by the time the road trip to Minnie and Nashville is done. While I respect Oates ability the Caps GM is under pressure from an activist owner. Something sereiously wrong in Washington as that team goes through the motions. I thought Semin was a big part of that but apparently not that big. They fired two coaches before Oates (sorry Hunter quit). Something is rotten so Gillis had better be carefull which carcus he picks up.

#1631 HUFFY

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

so now the question is, where is MG today?? What E conf game will he be at tonight??..........

#1632 HUFFY

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:42 AM

forget the caps, they have no cap space for Lu's huge 10 year contract!!!...Pens have Fluery, they do not need him or want his contract!!....

#1633 Skead

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

forget the caps, they have no cap space for Lu's huge 10 year contract!!!...Pens have Fluery, they do not need him or want his contract!!....


It's very possible the trade has nothing to do with Luongo at all... Maybe they're packaging up a D-Man for a FWD?

#1634 stawns

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

forget the caps, they have no cap space for Lu's huge 10 year contract!!!...Pens have Fluery, they do not need him or want his contract!!....


obviously there would be cap coming back to Vancouver. Lu's contract is pretty reasonable for a team who has had pretty constant goaltending issues for the last 4-5 years, and seemingly no solution on the horizon

#1635 stawns

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:21 AM

The SE Division has to discount their players in any trade simply because they are in the SE Division! :) Seriously! Their stats are pumped up by a unbalanced sched that let's them play one another far to much. The goal tending is the only thing close to bonafide as they get so much practise.

Lou comes out of Edmonton with another win and Gillis's phone keeps on ringing. I expect a deal by the time the road trip to Minnie and Nashville is done. While I respect Oates ability the Caps GM is under pressure from an activist owner. Something sereiously wrong in Washington as that team goes through the motions. I thought Semin was a big part of that but apparently not that big. They fired two coaches before Oates (sorry Hunter quit). Something is rotten so Gillis had better be carefull which carcus he picks up.


while I do think MG is keeping the team in the loop, I am a little concerned about how this is starting to look to the rest of the league........especially UFA's he might want to take a run at in the summer. On the surface, it's looks like MG is not handling this well, or treating his goalies very well.

That said, I also think this is a bit of trend with owners and GM's flexing their muscles after the lockout........they have most of the power and it seems like more and more are using it with players.

#1636 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

This has the potential to be the ultimate diasaster. Holding onto Lu is blocking up the whole organization. Is almost good that Lack is hurt or this would be even worse because he would be NHL ready and Cannata is AHL ready, but with Lu still here it backs everything up.
I believe Lu wants to leave for family reasons and Cory wants to play here, but at some point even Cory will get fed up with this and quietly ask to be traded.

#1637 higgyfan

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

It sure sounds like Washington is a team that needs to be 'shaken up'. As Boudrias pointed out, with so many coaches departing, it may be a player personel problem. If this is the case, they may be looking for a multiplayer trade. We don't really have any 2nd line players to trade (Booth is still injured, don't know if they would consider Raymond a 2nd liner). We do have +++ tweeners, some D (Ballard, Tanav) and Luongo (Schnieder for some). I don't know if any of these (other than the goalies) would appeal to Wash. Perhaps a 3rd team will be involved.

#1638 D-Money

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

I dunno, by definition, "Elite" means a select few. To me Roy, Hasek and Brodeur are the only goalies in the past 30 years that can be labelled elite. They played til the agesof 38, 43 and 40(still going) and had no real decline in numbers.

Luongo is probably incredibly motivated to shed his rep as a big game choker, if he can stay off his face like he did last night, he might have a chance.


Marty Brodeur's stats took a noticeable dip starting in the 2010-11 season, at age 38. But since he was so good before that, even at a step back he's still a very good starting goaltender.

But I think it's foolish to compare Luongo to instant HOF-ers like Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek. These guys are all multiple Vezina winners, and with the exception of Hasek, won multiple Stanley Cups. Luongo has won none of those, and at this point, has not accomplished enough to be even considered for the HHOF.

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#1639 higgyfan

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

forget the caps, they have no cap space for Lu's huge 10 year contract!!!...Pens have Fluery, they do not need him or want his contract!!....


Fleury has not lived up to expectations over the past 2 seasons. He can be traded if the Pens are looking to upgrade that position.

#1640 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:41 AM

obviously there would be cap coming back to Vancouver.††Lu's contract is pretty reasonable for a team who has had pretty constant goaltending issues for the last 4-5 years, and seemingly no solution on the horizon



I agree. I think any deal with the Caps would be for a prospect/pick plus someone from the Caps' roster. Brouwer would be good, although I agree with those who say that Washingtone would be reluctant to trade a guy they just picked up.

I could see someone like Fehr or even Jay Beagle being a fit on the bottom six. Add a prospect like Johanssen or Wilson and you have the makings of a deal.

The one negative I see in a deal with the Caps is that we wouldn't be able to address the need for a blue chip prospect at the center position. With Kes now skating and Schroeder playing well, I think the need for immediate help at the position is diminished, but I think the Canucks could really use another prospect at center to go with Gaunce.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#1641 stawns

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

I agree. I think any deal with the Caps would be for a prospect/pick plus someone from the Caps' roster. Brouwer would be good, although I agree with those who say that Washingtone would be reluctant to trade a guy they just picked up.

I could see someone like Fehr or even Jay Beagle being a fit on the bottom six. Add a prospect like Johanssen or Wilson and you have the makings of a deal.

The one negative I see in a deal with the Caps is that we wouldn't be able to address the need for a blue chip prospect at the center position. With Kes now skating and Schroeder playing well, I think the need for immediate help at the position is diminished, but I think the Canucks could really use another prospect at center to go with Gaunce.


I agree but the emergence of JS as a probably NHL talent is giving MG some wiggle room and some time to work on that. If Cannata continues to develop into a solid professional goalie, I think whoever is the GM of the Nucks might be able to move either him or Lack for some help down the middle when Hank is ready to hang them up. I also believe that wingers can be converted as well, if they are young and skilled enough. I always thought that's the direction they should have went with rayRay

#1642 oldnews

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

forget the caps, they have no cap space for Lu's huge 10 year contract!!!...Pens have Fluery, they do not need him or want his contract!!....


http://www.capgeek.com/capitals/

#1643 thad

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

for a player to be called a 2nd liner he has to have net at least 50 points imo. Plus Brouwer is kind of a dick with some bad history with the canucks. Come to think of it a lot of players from BC are dicks. Lucic, Ladd, Brouwer...


Funny how that works eh? haha... we got the whiniest fan base and the ones that actually make it to the big show all turn out to be dicks lol

That being said, i would take all three of those guys on my team

#1644 oldnews

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:02 PM

Maybe we could get both Mojo and Orlov? It seems like a stretch but really that could be better for them than giving up Brouwer or Forsberg, especially considering Mojo is in the dog house.

To Vancouver: Marcus Johansson, Dimtry Orlov

To Washington: Roberto Luongo, Kevin Connaution, 4th


Seems fair, Mojo for Luongo is one half (That favors Lu in value)

Orlov for Connaution + 4th is the other half (That favors Orlov)

Orlov is obviously much better than Connaution, but both bring the same aspects. And atleast Connaution would give them another offensive D in return, and would allow them to keep there there early round picks for this deep upcoming draft.


After all the proposals you've poopooed, you just valued Luongo in the same range as the vast majority of them.
Not saying I disagree (although Mojo would not be my choice), but I think you are starting to value him closer to where he should be.

Edited by oldnews, 04 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#1645 Squeak

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

CDC is usually complaining that the Canucks drafting is terrible.

Yet - Schroeders name keeps coming up in trade proposals.
Posted Image

#1646 Monty

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

http://www.capgeek.com/capitals/


You just proved him wrong. But that means. No. NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Do people on CDC just say things before looking up the facts? This can't be!

Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


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#1647 oldnews

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

"Why would they move Bryz" is a question that guys like Smashian and I wisely consider. As usual, you simply do not consider any side but Vancouver's when making proposals - confirmed by your Coburn, Couturier, and Simmonds idea. Bryzgalov is obviously a major roadblock to a deal with Philadelphia. I find it hard to believe that they'd want Luongo so bad that they'd be both willing to buyout Bryz and/or trade him at a deep discount, as well as part ways with whatever further consideration would be required to satisfy Gillis' demands for Luongo. I know it's fun to not think of these hard considerations from the other side's perspective when making proposals as a Canuck fan, but it is not reality.

As for Schroeder - I have always been high on him. You're again assuming that I think he's going to be a bust, because I'm some sort of "troll". I loved the pick when it happened. His production in the AHL was concerning, but, fundamentally, the skills are there. Great hockey sense, can skate, can pass. I like what I see, potential-wise.

Couturier will be a 1C or a 2C, not a 3C. He's too good for that.


I think you are forgetting that Bryz was signed as a UFA. If they traded him for a 5th round pick, they are up one 5th round pick - there is no "deep discount" in moving him. If they could get anything whatsover it would be a wise move. I have never suggested Bryz is a buyout candidate - he's a serviceable NHL goaltender, but perhaps not for a team that actually wants to contend to win a Cup. He'd be a good fit in Toronto. He is the definition of a cap dump. In any event, Schroeder and Ballard aren't scraps and they were part of the "other side" ie. my proposal you refer to as if it was for Luongo alone. Part of the "reality" you have revised and yet feel you have such a tight grasp of.

I agree with what you finally have to say about Schroeder - altogether different than your earlier tune.
I also agree with Courturier being a top line C eventually, which was why your suggestion that he wouldn't make sense as we have Schroeder at 2C, while he'd fall in the 3 spot, was slightly odd.

Edited by oldnews, 04 February 2013 - 01:23 PM.


#1648 King of the ES

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:22 PM

After all the proposals you've poopooed, you just valued Luongo in the same range as the vast majority of them.
Not saying I disagree (although Mojo would not be my choice), but I think you are starting to value him closer to where he should be.


Unfortunately, Washington is not interested.

This has been confirmed by their local reporters, George McPhee, and even Mike Gillis, who apparently reached out to McPhee and apologized for the stir that he created.

McPhee: "We have not had one conversation about goaltending, and on TV they're talking about what prospect I'm going to give up. Well, I could never take [Luongo's] contract."

#1649 King of the ES

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:34 PM

I think you are forgetting that Bryz was signed as a UFA. If they traded him for a 5th round pick, they are up one 5th round pick - there is no "deep discount" in moving him. If they could get anything whatsover it would be a wise move. I have never suggested Bryz is a buyout candidate - he's a serviceable NHL goaltender, but perhaps not for a team that actually wants to contend to win a Cup. He'd be a good fit in Toronto. He is the definition of a cap dump. In any event, Schroeder and Ballard aren't scraps and they were part of the "other side" ie. my proposal you refer to as if it was for Luongo alone. Part of the "reality" you have revised and yet feel you have such a tight grasp of.


The reality is that Bryz is a pretty good goalie - and they have him. Luongo's better, yes, but by so much that it would justify giving up franchise cornerstones like Couturier? I think not. It would be a real panic move for Philly to do this. Can't see it happening. If Bryz is traded somewhere else, OK, game on. But unless/until that happens, not a buyer, IMO.

I agree with what you finally have to say about Schroeder - altogether different than your earlier tune.
I also agree with Courturier being a top line C eventually, which was why your suggestion that he wouldn't make sense as we have Schroeder at 2C, while he'd fall in the 3 spot, was slightly odd.


Seriously, does being concerned with a lack of production make me a "hater"? I don't understand this. Jordan Schroeder was not exactly lighting up the AHL. To any reasonable and objective fan, that is worthy of mentioning. I don't know how or why you think this makes me "hate" him, because I'm just looking at the cold, hard numbers that are in front of me. 9 goals and 19 points in 30 games in the AHL after already playing 2 full seasons down there is not exactly encouraging, is it? Especially when you're 5'3" and you're really expected to generate goals.

#1650 oldnews

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

Unfortunately, Washington is not interested.

This has been confirmed by their local reporters, George McPhee, and even Mike Gillis, who apparently reached out to McPhee and apologized for the stir that he created.

McPhee: "We have not had one conversation about goaltending, and on TV they're talking about what prospect I'm going to give up. Well, I could never take [Luongo's] contract."



That's interesting King - but I smell a King paraphrase here - do you have a reference for this 'apology'?
In any event, I don't see Washington as a contender like some people here. I actually see being a lot like the Leafs - too many of their 'best' players are significantly underachieving - probably over-rated - if I were them I probably wouldn't be looking to add one or two players, I'd be looking to move players instead.

Anyway, regarding Vancouver's goaltending situation, keep dreaming, but Schneider is going nowhere.

Vancouver isn’t trading Cory Schneider, according to TSN’s Bob McKenzie.
Last week, Gillis said he hasn’t “been thinking about, thought of, or considered” trading Schneider.




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