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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1741 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:37 AM

this is his agent speaking not schneider ok do people not get this schneider will continue to support luongo just as luongo would do the same they both knew this could happen having them both stay on until the offseason and that is what's going to happen unless some team panics its about the team not the individual both of them know this


"Agent" is another word for representation. Liut's words represent Schneider's sentiment, like it or not.
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#1742 eretz canucks

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:10 AM

I don't understand why none of the teams who were interested in Luongo, are now, not offering anything.

With the way, Luongo has been playing, I don't understand why teams aren't knocking at Gillis' door asking what he wants for Lu.


Good question- the contract got one, but when he retires the team is off the hook- so is the contract truly that bad?
Gillis could also offer to pay some of it to facilitate a trade- and not sure why he isn't. Please note that he happily accepted steve reinhprect's 2million dollar salary in the booth trade.
Have the aquilini's lost money and ate putting pressure on Gillis to move Lu and not Schneider?

Gillis is "asking too much" for Lu - but the guy is an all star so what gives?

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#1743 eretz canucks

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:28 AM

and where is Columbus in all this? They need goaltending desperately...maybe Luongo has said no to CBJ and maybe he will only go to Florida. Theodore and Clemensen have already proven they cannot do the job, so if Tallon wanted luongo it would have been done by now.
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#1744 Riviera82

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

How do u know that?? Schneids has big shoes to fill if Lu goes, believe it or not.

Any argument supporting Schneids is 100% assumption. He is a good goalie for sure, dont want to take that away from him, but does he have the potential to be better than Luongo?

Time will tell


It's hard to say whether or not Schneider will ever match Luongo's regular season success, those are indeed huge shoes to fill.

The playoffs however are a different story entirely. Many goaltenders not nearly as decorated as Luongo have experienced equal or more personal success on teams inferior to ours.

My point being is that as long as Schneider is good enough during the regular season and able to raise his game in the playoffs, we probably cant really make out any worse than we already have.
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#1745 Boudrias

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:30 AM

GM's and owners.........Bergevin and Pk, Col and O'Reilly, Lu/Schneids and MG (not as much obviously)...........the GM's and owners are letting players know it's their game and they have the lion's share of the power.......imo anyway

I think it is a little ironic when management acts responsibly about controling their cost structure when prior to the lock out the universal condemnation was that they should live with their actions by signing hugh contracts. Both the Avs and the Habs are structuring their contracts the same way Gillis did. Both Subban and O'Reilly coming off ELC's are trying to parlay strong NHL starts into high paying longer term deals. I don't blame them for that but I don't think their management is 'beating' them up by setting a standard. I think they should take the 2 year deals at bigger money and cash in after they expire.

It appears to be a stretch now but the lockout could have caused a drop in revenue which could have lowered the CAP below $60 million in which case conservative management would have enjoyed an advantage. The next thing we know clubs will be hiring economist to anticipate what expected NHl revenues will come in at. My biggest problem after no hockey is the two contract buyout option. That deal stinks as overspending clubs will be able to dump two contracts which will be a competitive break for their own bad management. IMHO the NHL should have allowed the trade of CAP space. That would have allowed weaker, rebuilding teams to get young talent and pics in exchange for taking on bad contracts. It would have brought some accountability instead of a 'get out of jail' card.
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#1746 Provost

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:33 AM

Good question- the contract got one, but when he retires the team is off the hook- so is the contract truly that bad?
Gillis could also offer to pay some of it to facilitate a trade- and not sure why he isn't. Please note that he happily accepted steve reinhprect's 2million dollar salary in the booth trade.
Have the aquilini's lost money and ate putting pressure on Gillis to move Lu and not Schneider?

Gillis is "asking too much" for Lu - but the guy is an all star so what gives?


Different CBA. He can't hide salary in the minors like that. Also, he said that in some of the cases, the useless plug coming back had term left on his contract which would entirely screw us next year when the cap dropped significantly.

Unless we get a decent return, we are better off waiving Luongo than taking back useless salary in return. I really think it is not too much to ask for a solid 3rd line player, a blue chip prospect (like Bjugstad), and a pick. I return a team gets a goalie that is ranked somewhere between top 5 or top 10 in the league.

Edited by Provost, 05 February 2013 - 09:37 AM.

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Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!

#1747 smurf47

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:37 AM

"Agent" is another word for representation. Liut's words represent Schneider's sentiment, like it or not.

Is that gospel...or just another of your many opinions ES ?
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#1748 Pears

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

"Agent" is another word for representation. Liut's words represent Schneider's sentiment, like it or not.

No its not lol. If Schneider himself said he was getting impatient then so be it. But this is his agent's opinion, like it or not.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1749 smurf47

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:41 AM

"We are only interested in resolution, we are not going to get into the finger-pointing game and to that end you have to take a step back and you have to give them latitude to make a business decision."


Read more: http://www.vancouver...l#ixzz2K06tfWXa



Hey Mike... That IS pointing fingers. Trade Schneider. If he's going to pull a Hodgson, it ain't gonne be pretty.



Luongo is signed for the rest of his career. If you need more convinving concerning the matter, look at the Oilers' sound bites on Luongo. Watch the games, and see for yourself. Luongo held the Canucks in until Bieksa scored. then it was open game. Tanev gets his first.



Trade Schneider and get the returns of veteran winning players who will help the team get over the playoff hunch; secondary scoring, toughness and a never quit attitude.



Keep Luongo.



Why not get a rubber stamp 101? Same ole, same ole. We get it it...you want Schneider gone because you love Lou. Point made ! a zillion times !
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#1750 Boudrias

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

I don't understand why none of the teams who were interested in Luongo, are now, not offering anything.

With the way, Luongo has been playing, I don't understand why teams aren't knocking at Gillis' door asking what he wants for Lu.

How do you know they aren't 'knocking' at his door. No matter what McPhee says I am sure he has talked about Lou to Gillis. He wouldn't be doing his job otherwise. These guys aren't talking about what is discussed behind closed doors.

I am sure it is well known through the other 29 teams what Gillis is asking for Lou. Every game Lou plays, and wins, the more comformation of his worth in the hockey world. For most of these teams it is a hockey decision. Many rule it out because of CAP but also time lines don't jive for others. Some are influenced by markets which take the decision process away froma pure hockey deal. The Minny GM said he made the Suter/Parise deals because his market was starting to deteriorate from losing for so long. His gamble was that these two players would bring him a winning team and franchise viability. Inevitably a trade partner will determine that Lou brings them an option that they can deal with Gillis over. Again, I am predicting a deal by the end of next week.
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#1751 smurf47

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

How do u know that?? Schneids has big shoes to fill if Lu goes, believe it or not.

Any argument supporting Schneids is 100% assumption. He is a good goalie for sure, dont want to take that away from him, but does he have the potential to be better than Luongo?

Time will tell

Fundamentally, Schneider is now better than Lou. Whether that translates into more success in the future is the question. Lou is playing very well, but so is the team in front of him. Lou is also having excellent puck luck and made some great saves being off balance and falling down/ He has improved his balance but still the 5 hole is a problem. He looked very bad on Hemskys goal, was not near aggressive enough.
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#1752 smurf47

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

tough task to be better than luongo one of the best all-time, but what schneids does do is allow the canucks to have solid goaltending for the next decade.

If they trade schneider (hypothetical) and lack doesnt become the goalie we all think he can be, where does that leave the canucks in 4years? right where edmonton or florida are now searching for a quality goalie the most important position on any team.

to me that is the biggest pro for keeping schneider, the two are very close right now but schneider allows the team stability moving forward.

I think Dubnyk was just as good as Lou last night if not better. Lou gets first star with 23 saves...Dubnyk 3rd star with 37....looks like a Vancouver media choice...not based on facts ! all hype for Lou !
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#1753 Drive-By Body Pierce

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:08 AM

Different CBA. He can't hide salary in the minors like that. Also, he said that in some of the cases, the useless plug coming back had term left on his contract which would entirely screw us next year when the cap dropped significantly.

Unless we get a decent return, we are better off waiving Luongo than taking back useless salary in return. I really think it is not too much to ask for a solid 3rd line player, a blue chip prospect (like Bjugstad), and a pick. I return a team gets a goalie that is ranked somewhere between top 5 or top 10 in the league.


Sure you can't hide salary in the AHL, but salary can be retained in a trade under the new CBA.

Here is some additional description:

m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/how-the-nhls-new-salary-trading-system-works/article7033878/?service=mobile

Edited by STiBlammo, 05 February 2013 - 10:11 AM.

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#1754 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:25 AM

ffs.

You look for every excuse to keep Luongo.

Schneider is staying. Luongo is going. Just accept it please.

I remember when CH101 first started posting in the Luongo threads and he had some reasonable points. Now every single one is a trade Schneider idea or some sort or support for keeping Luongo.

No wavering with that one, he's dead set in his ways.

pull a hodgson?

schneider is about to turn 27, and has spent a lot of his prime years sitting on the bench

he signed a contract with the expectation that he was going to play a lot. perhaps 75% -- there's virtually no reason to assume this wasn't a mutual understanding.

schneider has EVERY reason to be alarmed at what's going on here. his youth is passing him by.

someone has to go

I'd think you're assuming too much. Certainly they would have expected Schneider to get a higher percentage of the starts throughout the year than he had previously, but to expect as much as 75% and that it was a mutual understanding? Hard to do so without having been in the room to hear what has been discussed with Schneider and his agent.

Heck, I could be wrong with my statement that they'd expect just a higher percentage of starts than last year, although Luit's comments certainly suggest that was their expectation. Schneider's a smart guy though, and being involved as he was with the CBA negotiations particularly, he has a pretty good understanding of what roadblocks there might be to getting a Luongo deal done quickly.


Different CBA. He can't hide salary in the minors like that. Also, he said that in some of the cases, the useless plug coming back had term left on his contract which would entirely screw us next year when the cap dropped significantly.

Unless we get a decent return, we are better off waiving Luongo than taking back useless salary in return. I really think it is not too much to ask for a solid 3rd line player, a blue chip prospect (like Bjugstad), and a pick. I return a team gets a goalie that is ranked somewhere between top 5 or top 10 in the league.

He's talking about how we can keep some of Luongo's salary and/or cap hit in a trade, similar to the Lombardi trade to Phoenix in January. For a budget team like Florida, we could offer to pay a portion of his salary and they get the full cap hit in order to sweeten the deal.

Not so sure if we could do that for a set # of years, or if it'd have to be for as long as Luongo plays there - or whether it even continues if Florida moves Luongo later. If it's something where we'd have to pay the portion we agree to until he retires, we'd likely be willing to pay less than we would if we could just pay half his salary for the next two years. Or, we could pay $2M a year for the next 5 years (when his salary drops to $3.4M.

There's also the cap recapture issue if he retires early, but for Florida that might actually be a bonus.

I think Dubnyk was just as good as Lou last night if not better. Lou gets first star with 23 saves...Dubnyk 3rd star with 37....looks like a Vancouver media choice...not based on facts ! all hype for Lou !

They were in Edmonton so the Canucks had no influence on the picks for the 3 stars.
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#1755 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:27 AM

No its not lol. If Schneider himself said he was getting impatient then so be it. But this is his agent's opinion, like it or not.


Any agent is basically a hired mouthpiece. They're hired to represent you.

If you don't think Schneider is thinking what Liut is saying, you are in deep denial, my friend.
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#1756 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:28 AM

Is that gospel...or just another of your many opinions ES ?

No its not lol. If Schneider himself said he was getting impatient then so be it. But this is his agent's opinion, like it or not.

No, it's just King.

Schneids himself said it the other day:

benkuzma
Schneider on the #Canucks' crease conundrum: "It would be extremely selfish to put our needs ahead of our teammates and make it harder on them than it alread is. Nothing changes between us an how we interact and play our games."


Cue the "oh, well Schneider clearly isn't telling the truth and he has to say that for the media..."
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#1757 Rusty_Element

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

How do you know they aren't 'knocking' at his door. No matter what McPhee says I am sure he has talked about Lou to Gillis. He wouldn't be doing his job otherwise. These guys aren't talking about what is discussed behind closed doors.

I am sure it is well known through the other 29 teams what Gillis is asking for Lou. Every game Lou plays, and wins, the more comformation of his worth in the hockey world. For most of these teams it is a hockey decision. Many rule it out because of CAP but also time lines don't jive for others. Some are influenced by markets which take the decision process away froma pure hockey deal. The Minny GM said he made the Suter/Parise deals because his market was starting to deteriorate from losing for so long. His gamble was that these two players would bring him a winning team and franchise viability. Inevitably a trade partner will determine that Lou brings them an option that they can deal with Gillis over. Again, I am predicting a deal by the end of next week.


Not only this, but how would it benefit McPhee or any GM to come out and say "We are taking a run at grabbing Luongo". All he would be doing is creating unwanted attention among other GM's who also might be looking at a goalie upgrade thus running up the cost on a potential trade.
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#1758 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

Cue the "oh, well Schneider clearly isn't telling the truth and he has to say that for the media..."


Cody Hodgson always publicly spoke glowingly about the organization during his time as a Canuck, did he not?
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#1759 Yotes

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:50 AM

And the Canucks said this wouldn't be come a distraction...

Well with playing Luongo in 4 straight games, maybe a 5th?? After schneider really has played quite well besides opening night, how long did management think it would take for comments to come out like Schneiders agent said?

This has been a distraction to the team since training camp started, regardless of what MG says, Everyone on the team gets asked every day whats going on with the goaltending situation, thats not a distraction??

Damn right its a distraction, and the longer it goes on the more upset one of the goalies who isnt playing will get and it could turn out bad with them forcing a trade, which then severely diminishes their value if its Luongo or Schneider.

if its not for our goaltending recently our record would be far worse, we need offensive depth even when we have booth and kesler back.The line juggling last night just showed how poor our depth is now. kassian has to be on the top line or hes what a 3rd or 4th line tweener?

Its jjust gonna be mroe of a distraction the longer this goes on, especially when 1 goalie keeps getting all the starts, its no secret if the roles were reversed and Luongo was sitting he wouldnt be too happy either

Edited by ERIK, 05 February 2013 - 10:51 AM.

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#1760 Lui's Knob

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

Hockeyyinsiderr has weighed in....

Hockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
Names mentioned by #Canucks as possible return for Luongo: pick+Neuvirth+ 1 of following: Brouwer/Kuznetsov/Green/Alzner/Forsberg


Make that 2-3 of the following and I'll take the trade (have enough d-men, so bring in some talented forwards)...

Luongo, Raymond, Malhotra, Rai and a conditional pick for Neuvirth, rights to Kuznetsov, Brower, Laich and Forsberg

Edited by Lui's Knob, 05 February 2013 - 10:55 AM.

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#1761 hockeyfan90

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:02 AM

hockey insider is bogus, doesn't know anything
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#1762 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

Hockeyyinsiderr has weighed in....

Hockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
Names mentioned by #Canucks as possible return for Luongo: pick+Neuvirth+ 1 of following: Brouwer/Kuznetsov/Green/Alzner/Forsberg


Make that 2-3 of the following and I'll take the trade (have enough d-men, so bring in some talented forwards)...

Luongo, Raymond, Malhotra, Rai and a conditional pick for Neuvirth, rights to Kuznetsov, Brower, Laich and Forsberg

Yeah, someone already posted a previous @HI tweet earlier about Washington, not sure we need more of his brand of 'insiderr' in this thread.
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#1763 Pears

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:09 AM

Any agent is basically a hired mouthpiece. They're hired to represent you.

If you don't think Schneider is thinking what Liut is saying, you are in deep denial, my friend.

Did Schneider say he was getting impatient? No. Diid his agent say he was getting impatient? Yes. There's a big difference in that King, something you should know.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#1764 Truckin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:18 AM

Hockeyyinsiderr has weighed in....

Hockeyy Insiderr@HockeyyInsiderr
Names mentioned by #Canucks as possible return for Luongo: pick+Neuvirth+ 1 of following: Brouwer/Kuznetsov/Green/Alzner/Forsberg


Make that 2-3 of the following and I'll take the trade (have enough d-men, so bring in some talented forwards)...

Luongo, Raymond, Malhotra, Rai and a conditional pick for Neuvirth, rights to Kuznetsov, Brower, Laich and Forsberg



Your reaching a little to much on what we will get back if you see them giving up that much for Lou.
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#1765 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:23 AM

Did Schneider say he was getting impatient? No. Diid his agent say he was getting impatient? Yes. There's a big difference in that King, something you should know.


agent (ˈeɪdʒənt) Posted Imagen 1. a person who acts on behalf of another person, group, business,government, etc; representative

Edited by King of the ES, 05 February 2013 - 11:25 AM.

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#1766 Spotted Zebra

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

Did Schneider say he was getting impatient? No. Diid his agent say he was getting impatient? Yes. There's a big difference in that King, something you should know.


This is the only time I'll ever agree with King.
Cory Schneider would have to be an absolute moron to say that publically or even to MG.

Maybe it was something that Cory had talked to Mike about in the Summer, but there's is no way what the agent said didn't reflect what Cory was thinking.
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#1767 TmanVan

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:25 AM

Hockeyyinsiderr has weighed in....

Hockeyy Insiderr‏@HockeyyInsiderr
Names mentioned by #Canucks as possible return for Luongo: pick+Neuvirth+ 1 of following: Brouwer/Kuznetsov/Green/Alzner/Forsberg


That doesn't really mean anything. From what he is saying that could vary as much a 3rd, Neuvirth, and Brouwer to a 1st, Neuvirth, and Forsberg which is obviously a huge difference.

Hockey insider is spitballing random ideas like the rest of us.
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#1768 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

From Elliote Freidman's 30 thoughts this week:

14. I was fortunate enough to have a lengthy conversation during last season's playoffs with Lou Lamoriello of the Devils. One of the things he said was, as a GM, "If you have time, use it." I think of that now with the Vancouver Canucks. People say, "They've got too much money tied up in their goalies." It will be an issue next year, for sure, and it could be an issue this year if the Canucks want to add something. But until you have to do it, Lamoriello's advice is to be patient because you never know when your circumstances will change. Plus, the two of them do a great job of handling it.

15. Canucks goaltender Cory Schneider does not have no-trade protection in his new contract. But if you think Vancouver asked a lot for Luongo -- and don't forget that, seven months ago, both the team and Luongo thought it was best to separate - Canucks GM Mike Gillis can't change the plan unless both sides are 100 per cent comfortable with it. And it's certainly possible Luongo is playing so well now because he's relaxed.

16. A question we'll never know the answer to: If Luongo was traded before Jamie Benn re-signed with Dallas, would we have seen an offer sheet?

17. Undoubtedly, the Gillis/Laurence Gilman eastern excursion was to scout potential trade partners and free-agent targets. The two conferences don't see each other this season, so you don't get that close-up look if you stay home. Don't forget, the Canucks pitched Cody Hodgson to Washington last season for John Carlson. Hard to see Capitals GM George McPhee parting with the young defender, even with that new hairstyle.


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#1769 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:33 AM

agent (ˈeɪdʒənt) Posted Image n 1. a person who acts on behalf of another person, group, business,government, etc; representative


There is also such thing as misrepresentation. Again, the agent is just doing his job in voicing what he believes is in the best interest of his client. We can't assume Schneider told him to say that.

Edited by Karlsson`s Flo, 05 February 2013 - 11:33 AM.

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#1770 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:50 AM

How do we know Luongo would waive his no trade for Washington??
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