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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#1771 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:14 PM

There is also such thing as misrepresentation. Again, the agent is just doing his job in voicing what he believes is in the best interest of his client. We can't assume Schneider told him to say that.


Who's assuming that?

I'm saying that you can be sure that whatever Liut is saying is exactly what Schneider is thinking. They're on the same page. And they're not exactly thrilled with what's going on here. And really, nobody should blame them.
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#1772 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

How do we know Luongo would waive his no trade for Washington??

Considering Washington is being pretty adamant they haven't discussed a trade for him nor would they be willing to take on his contract, I think worrying about whether or not Luongo would waive his NTC for them is a moot point.
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#1773 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:23 PM

News1130Sports
Cory Schneider's agent Mike Liut called Lawrence Gillman last night to give him heads up about his interview with Van Sun.
Liut didn't want explanation from Gillman about why Loungo is still around. Just heads up about Interview with Van Sun.
Liut and client quickly finding Canadian media a whole lot different than things down south. Liut says no more interviews.

Hmm, they both sound very concerned and Schneider is clearly pressing Liut to get answers from the Canucks! Oh wait...

Edited by elvis15, 05 February 2013 - 12:24 PM.

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#1774 Dragonfruits

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:27 PM

Who's assuming that?

I'm saying that you can be sure that whatever Liut is saying is exactly what Schneider is thinking. They're on the same page. And they're not exactly thrilled with what's going on here. And really, nobody should blame them.


you are assuming right now there have been numerous occasions where player agents decide to open their mouths thinking they will change the minds of a coach to play their player when they should really keep their mouth shut

also doesn't sound like their on the same page

Schneider on the #Canucks' crease conundrum: "It would be extremely selfish to put our needs ahead of our teammates and make it harder on them than it alread is. Nothing changes between us an how we interact and play our games."

so nothing changes until schneider actually comes out and says he wants out

http://www.vancitybu...ongo-wants-out/

seems like luongo is the one that wanted out hence why he is the one that will be traded in the off season hence why there have been the same thread recreated about a luongo trade in the futue
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#1775 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

*
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you are assuming right now there have been numerous occasions where player agents decide to open their mouths thinking they will change the minds of a coach to play their player when they should really keep their mouth shut

also doesn't sound like their on the same page

Schneider on the #Canucks' crease conundrum: "It would be extremely selfish to put our needs ahead of our teammates and make it harder on them than it alread is. Nothing changes between us an how we interact and play our games."

so nothing changes until schneider actually comes out and says he wants out

http://www.vancitybu...ongo-wants-out/

seems like luongo is the one that wanted out hence why he is the one that will be traded in the off season hence why there have been the same thread recreated about a luongo trade in the futue


Cory Schneider is no Cody Hodgson. Very classy of Cory Schneider to do what he is doing. I know for a fact Cody Hodgson wanted ice time all for himself, rather then play a team role. Good job Cory. We still love ya here. We have a 1-2 goaltender punch.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#1776 GLASSJAW

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

also doesn't sound like their on the same page

Schneider on the #Canucks' crease conundrum: "It would be extremely selfish to put our needs ahead of our teammates and make it harder on them than it alread is. Nothing changes between us an how we interact and play our games."

so nothing changes until schneider actually comes out and says he wants out


uhmm, read between the lines, bro. Schneider is speaking about the 'us' being him and his teammates. Why would he have any animosity with his teammates? None of them do anything, except say 'how high?' when they're told to jump.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Schneider's understandable or inevitable (and to-be-expected) dissatisfaction with management and the blatant and embarrassing mishandling of this situation.

Maybe Schneider didn't endorse his agent's comments, but I don't see why anyone would question their truthfulness. Schneider is wasting his career at this point.
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#1777 Dragonfruits

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

uhmm, read between the lines, bro. Schneider is speaking about the 'us' being him and his teammates. Why would he have any animosity with his teammates? None of them do anything, except say 'how high?' when they're told to jump.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Schneider's understandable or inevitable (and to-be-expected) dissatisfaction with management and the blatant and embarrassing mishandling of this situation.

Maybe Schneider didn't endorse his agent's comments, but I don't see why anyone would question their truthfulness. Schneider is wasting his career at this point.


a lot of times agents think they know whats best for their client during the season when they should keep their mouth shut at the end of the day the agent is there to get the best deal when getting signed not play coach/gm a tweet from news 1130 pretty much tells he should of kept quiet
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#1778 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:55 PM

I watched the Penguins / Washington game the other day. Backstrom looked lost, skated aimlessly and without purpose. He got beat to the puck so many times he was called out by Milbury and Jones. They used the telestrator to demonstrate shift after shift his line was giving up chances on noticeably weak efforts, broken plays and bad passes.

Yes, struggling!

They concluded; no wonder Washington is losing! Then went on to criticize why Oates was puttering with Ovi on his off wing, when simple fundamentals were so poor. But with Oates being new and a statement after these same players ran Hunter and Boudreau out of town (both quality coaches) > perhaps a shake up was necessary?

Scoring a few points means nothing in boxing either, when you get your arse flattened dancing like an idiot.

People who post without watching actual games... :picard:

"Struggling"...he has 7 points in 9 games.

He's also gotten 374 career points in 374 career games, and he's 25 years old. Don't think they'll be trading him.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 05 February 2013 - 12:59 PM.

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#1779 Provost

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:00 PM

Sure you can't hide salary in the AHL, but salary can be retained in a trade under the new CBA.

Here is some additional description:

m.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/how-the-nhls-new-salary-trading-system-works/article7033878/?service=mobile


My understanding of the new CBA (and as Gilman presented it on an interview)... is that if you retain salary, you have to retain the same proportion of cap space on that contract. The two are linked.

Hence, us being worse off by doing that. Why keep cap space on the books for a player we don't have anymore... that is worse than simply waiving him. This is only useful in the case of a Redden type contract where no one would pick him up on waivers. You can bet your last dollar that Luongo would have a dozen teams put in a claim for him on waivers and he wouldn't get past Columbus.

If you read the article you quoted, it even explains why the Canucks wouldn't do that in the Luongo example.

I wish you could retain EITHER cap OR salary as I think that would really help the trade market. Doesn't seem to be the case though.

Edited by Provost, 05 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

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#1780 Provost

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

He's talking about how we can keep some of Luongo's salary and/or cap hit in a trade, similar to the Lombardi trade to Phoenix in January. For a budget team like Florida, we could offer to pay a portion of his salary and they get the full cap hit in order to sweeten the deal.


As above, my understanding is that you can't do this. It is both at the same proportion (if you retain 10% of his salary, you retain 10% of the cap hit as well). It would certainly grease the wheels for a Luongo trade if you could just retain a bit of salary but send his whole cap hit to the new team (like Florida cares about the cap hit... they just care about the salary).
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#1781 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

Who's assuming that?

I'm saying that you can be sure that whatever Liut is saying is exactly what Schneider is thinking. They're on the same page. And they're not exactly thrilled with what's going on here. And really, nobody should blame them.


You can't assume Luit is saying exactly what Schneider is thinking. Luit is saying what he believes is in Schneider's best interest. Obviously, Schneider wants to play and his agent wants him to play. That doesn't mean that they want Lu gone ASAP.
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#1782 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:41 PM

My understanding of the new CBA (and as Gilman presented it on an interview)... is that if you retain salary, you have to retain the same proportion of cap space on that contract. The two are linked.

Hence, us being worse off by doing that. Why keep cap space on the books for a player we don't have anymore... that is worse than simply waiving him. This is only useful in the case of a Redden type contract where no one would pick him up on waivers. You can bet your last dollar that Luongo would have a dozen teams put in a claim for him on waivers and he wouldn't get past Columbus.

If you read the article you quoted, it even explains why the Canucks wouldn't do that in the Luongo example.

I wish you could retain EITHER cap OR salary as I think that would really help the trade market. Doesn't seem to be the case though.

My understanding was they aren't linked, at least not at a one for one ratio and it could be moved around.

When Toronto traded Lombardi for the conditional pick, they also agreed to retain $500K of his remaining signing bonus and a portion of his salary in the deal. After reading/checking on it the Coyotes have a $2M cap hit for him while the Leafs have $1.5M in cap retained for the salary they took rather than the cap hit not having changed.

That would support your side for sure, and it wouldn't really work in a Luongo deal as a result, unless we're freeing up cap space in another deal. Still, going by that, I see it as unlikely that's a viable option in a Luongo deal.
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#1783 Bodee

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:45 PM

Schneider/his agent is maybe as sick as most of the rest of us with MG's constant bull.... How there are so many teams interested and how he needs to wait for the right deal............If you get interest, surely you make things happen.

MG doesn't seem to know how to get something "worthwhile" done. Move him away from his "projects" and "futures" and he seems to struggle.

Part of the reason as I see it is he seems to look on the team as his "family" and finds it hard to part with anyone of worth for fear of screwing up.

This Luongo mess is one he created. In my and most others mind on here Luongo should never even have been on offer. He is the stud on this farm and MG/AV have complicated this goalie situation till it is ridiculous. Trade Schneider and settle the team down, for goodness sake.
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#1784 D-Money

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:46 PM

Maybe Schneider didn't endorse his agent's comments, but I don't see why anyone would question their truthfulness. Schneider is wasting his career at this point.


Seconded.

Canucks aren't trading Lu simply because they think he's no good anymore. They're going with Schneider, because they think he'll be even better. Schneids has definitely paid his dues, and is ready to kick some a**, and win some Vezinas. But he's already having a bit of a late start compared to his peers, and has only so many of his prime years left.

The last thing he wants is to let another year go by without full out proving that he is a bonafide, elite, #1 goaltender.
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#1785 Drive-By Body Pierce

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

My understanding of the new CBA (and as Gilman presented it on an interview)... is that if you retain salary, you have to retain the same proportion of cap space on that contract. The two are linked.

Hence, us being worse off by doing that. Why keep cap space on the books for a player we don't have anymore... that is worse than simply waiving him. This is only useful in the case of a Redden type contract where no one would pick him up on waivers. You can bet your last dollar that Luongo would have a dozen teams put in a claim for him on waivers and he wouldn't get past Columbus.

If you read the article you quoted, it even explains why the Canucks wouldn't do that in the Luongo example.

I wish you could retain EITHER cap OR salary as I think that would really help the trade market. Doesn't seem to be the case though.


Your previous post, responding to the suggestion of retaining salary, seemed to indicate that you weren't aware of salary/cap trades.

I agree that there could be greater potential benefit if the salary and cap weren't connected. But, I was in no way suggesting that the Canucks should (or shouldn't) take the approach of retaining any of Luo's salary in a potential trade.
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#1786 Drive-By Body Pierce

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

double post.

Edited by STiBlammo, 05 February 2013 - 01:55 PM.

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#1787 Tangelos

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

Just have both goalies play 24 games and deal with Luongo in the offseason. Everyone wins.
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#1788 Yotes

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

The way this whole situation pans out is going to be the telling point onf MG as our GM.

If the wait is worthwhile and we get a solid return from whichever goalie and we win a cup, i could give a rats ass. preferebly this does get resolved sooner than later so the media can move on, maybe the media should just get banned if they are gonna ask retorical stupid redundant questions to pisss the team and players off.

If he waits too long, gets a lack luster return, the traded goalie goes on to have success(vezina, jennings, stanley cup/ conn smythe) and our return yields nothing. And we done get back to the cup finals. Then MG will get fired

So for MG this is the biggest move for him to make, if Sundin had signed that 2 year contract and made it impossible to resign the sedins and they signed elsewhere then i think MG would be fired already.

So lets see what you can do MG, I have liked some of your moves, but definitely not all. Also, havent been a fan of the way our coach handles the team when it comes down to the wire, so I hope if we fail to go far this year I hope MG looks in a new direction aswell.

Its his job to do that, it doesnt matter AV could win 900 games as our coach, who cares, all we want is a stanley cup winner and that parade downtown, by any means necessary
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#1789 Dragonfruits

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

The way this whole situation pans out is going to be the telling point onf MG as our GM.

If the wait is worthwhile and we get a solid return from whichever goalie and we win a cup, i could give a rats ass. preferebly this does get resolved sooner than later so the media can move on, maybe the media should just get banned if they are gonna ask retorical stupid redundant questions to pisss the team and players off.

If he waits too long, gets a lack luster return, the traded goalie goes on to have success(vezina, jennings, stanley cup/ conn smythe) and our return yields nothing. And we done get back to the cup finals. Then MG will get fired

So for MG this is the biggest move for him to make, if Sundin had signed that 2 year contract and made it impossible to resign the sedins and they signed elsewhere then i think MG would be fired already.

So lets see what you can do MG, I have liked some of your moves, but definitely not all. Also, havent been a fan of the way our coach handles the team when it comes down to the wire, so I hope if we fail to go far this year I hope MG looks in a new direction aswell.

Its his job to do that, it doesnt matter AV could win 900 games as our coach, who cares, all we want is a stanley cup winner and that parade downtown, by any means necessary


if you think the media is bad now just wait til the trade happens
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#1790 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:24 PM

Just have both goalies play 24 games and deal with Luongo in the offseason. Everyone wins.


Luongo's started 5 games, Schneider's started 4. That's pretty much what is happening at this point.
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#1791 elvis15

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

Schneider/his agent is maybe as sick as most of the rest of us with MG's constant bull.... How there are so many teams interested and how he needs to wait for the right deal............If you get interest, surely you make things happen.

MG doesn't seem to know how to get something "worthwhile" done. Move him away from his "projects" and "futures" and he seems to struggle.

Part of the reason as I see it is he seems to look on the team as his "family" and finds it hard to part with anyone of worth for fear of screwing up.

This Luongo mess is one he created. In my and most others mind on here Luongo should never even have been on offer. He is the stud on this farm and MG/AV have complicated this goalie situation till it is ridiculous. Trade Schneider and settle the team down, for goodness sake.

Constant bull, eh?

He wasn't afraid to let Naslund, Ohlund, Mitchell and Salo leave - all big parts of the Canucks family. Then there's his quick recognition of Sturm being a mistake and moving him along with a fan favourite but aging Samuelsson for David Booth. I'm sure he'd love to create more 'messes' like Luongo and Schneider as well, as would many other teams in the league.
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#1792 Goal:thecup

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

Hey Smashian, Team 1040 just read a tweet or email something like, "Dear Leafs Fans, I now have more goals than Kessel this season. Signed, Chris Tanev."

Reference to Luongo to TO for a package that included Kessel; I wouldn't give TO Tanev for Kessel straight up.
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#1793 N4ZZY

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

Hey Smashian, Team 1040 just read a tweet or email something like, "Dear Leafs Fans, I now have more goals than Kessel this season. Signed, Chris Tanev."

Reference to Luongo to TO for a package that included Kessel; I wouldn't give TO Tanev for Kessel straight up.


Kessel is terrible. now there's a mess.
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#1794 Yotes

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

The media is a joke, would be nice to just watch hockey without all their god damn drama. Such a piss off. Wasnt like this years ago, it was about the hockey, now its so much media build up and emphasis and talk on tv everything gets blown out of proportion and scrutinized to death, which isnt good for our team
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#1795 Millerdraft

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:40 PM

I think Dubnyk was just as good as Lou last night if not better. Lou gets first star with 23 saves...Dubnyk 3rd star with 37....looks like a Vancouver media choice...not based on facts ! all hype for Lou !


I don't recall Dubnyk stopping a 3-on-1 from point blank in the slot, nor do I recall him stopping a penalty shot in OT.

Both those saves were gamechangers, just like Devan's whiff job on Bieksa's goal turned a W into an OTL. Gamechangers and hence the star order.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#1796 Ray Canuck

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

You'd think reporters could find something to write about other than the non-story of Scheids & Lou!
The Goalie market is somewhat different in terms of how GM's perceive their value. You've got guys like Ken Holland that say they'd rather not spend on a goalie, you have GM's that don't want to spend on a top flight goalie because the rest of their team stinks. You have GM's that can't get the green light from Owners, others don't want to be the one that give the appearance of overpaying.
This leaves "timing" as the factor that will resolve the issue. Right now every team has a so called chance at making the playoffs, it is yet to be seen which teams will make the playoffs and still further down the road to see which teams might be able to go an extra round if they have a better situation in net.
One could argue that having both of our guys is better than a costly deadline deal.
Maybe Lou said I will waive my no trade but if I earn #1 minutes you give them to me.
Then we have the matter of comprehension, as far as mine goes I've heard over and over GMMG saying "only if it makes sense", I've heard Lou say whatever is best for the team and Schneids echo the same over and over.
When is the last time you've seen such raw emotion as the Canucks displayed last night with Tanev's GWG?
Is this really the mark of a team with huge dressing room issues?

We are like a bunch of little kids, desperately searching every little corner of the house to find what Mom & Dad bought us for X-mas.

I'd gamble on a deadline or draft floor deal this is when teams are selling hope to their fans.
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#1797 riffraff

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:46 PM

Kessel is terrible. now there's a mess.


I watched the leafs bruins game on Saturday.....just reaffirmed that kessel is not what this team needs.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#1798 riffraff

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:50 PM

The media is a joke, would be nice to just watch hockey without all their god damn drama. Such a piss off. Wasnt like this years ago, it was about the hockey, now its so much media build up and emphasis and talk on tv everything gets blown out of proportion and scrutinized to death, which isnt good for our team


IMO the media surrounding the NHL went down the crapter the year we went to the final against the bruins.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#1799 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

Cory Schneider is no Cody Hodgson. Very classy of Cory Schneider to do what he is doing. I know for a fact Cody Hodgson wanted ice time all for himself, rather then play a team role. Good job Cory. We still love ya here. We have a 1-2 goaltender punch.


Nobody said anything bad or had any "character" concerns towards Cody Hodgson until he was traded, so I would be careful about saying something like this.
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#1800 King of the ES

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:55 PM

Hey Smashian, Team 1040 just read a tweet or email something like, "Dear Leafs Fans, I now have more goals than Kessel this season. Signed, Chris Tanev."

Reference to Luongo to TO for a package that included Kessel; I wouldn't give TO Tanev for Kessel straight up.


Incredible :picard:

BTW, Tanev also has more goals than a certain captain of a certain team, who's name is escaping me at the moment, believe he wears #33, though.
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