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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#2191 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:38 PM

Luongo for johansson, a second rounder, and Neuvirth would be a better deal.
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#2192 Pears

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

Luongo for johansson, a second rounder, and Neuvirth would be a better deal.

Lol. Thats a horrible deal. If you're saying thats a better deal than Brouwer, Laich and Holtby you need help.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#2193 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:44 PM

Lol. Thats a horrible deal. If you're saying thats a better deal than Brouwer, Laich and Holtby you need help.


Yeah but Wash wouldn't give that much up.

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#2194 Pears

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

Yeah but Wash wouldn't give that much up.

And we won't give Luongo up for that little so again horrible deal.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2195 sampy

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:46 PM

Lol. Thats a horrible deal. If you're saying thats a better deal than Brouwer, Laich and Holtby you need help.


And how did you want to fit in everyone under next years cap?.
Forsberg should be the target if trading with Washington.
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#2196 allkill326

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

Forsberg, Alzner, and a few picks or prospects?
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#2197 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

Brouwer
2013 first
wilson (the least potential of their 3 big forward prospects)

Luongo

-we finally solve the dilemma and the headache of a controversy, get his money off the books, we get younger and tougher, a cup winner and some help for the future. A bit of an underpayment but worth it IMO
heck I'd toss in Rodin


No, dont see where Brouwer fits.

Luo also has an active contract until 2022 that pays him $5.3M per year on a cap-hit basis, and he's already just shy of 34 years old.

You should read a bit about Fasth's background. It's very, very similar to Lundqvist's. Anaheim may have found a real gem.


Buyout, trade, retirement, there are other options.

Fasth is pretty good. Anaheim got a nice guy there, maybe they put him on the block or maybe they keep him and trade Hiller. Or Maybe they keep both, who knows.

If we were offered Brouwer and a 1st, we should take it and run.


LOL

No we shouldn't. We should hang up and throw the phone out the window.


Brouwer
Laich
Orlov
Holtby

Luongo
Raymond
Schroeder
2nd
3rd


You had me until I saw Schroeder, 2nd, & 3rd.

Would rather Nuevirth than Holtby, I'm sure WSH would too. Brouwer and Laich aren't needs for us, especially to have both, and I don't see anyway they would deal both.

Orlov, Johansson, Nuevirth for Luongo, Connaution, Ebbett, 4th or 5th
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#2198 Gooseberries

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

No, dont see where Brouwer fits.



Buyout, trade, retirement, there are other options.

Fasth is pretty good. Anaheim got a nice guy there, maybe they put him on the block or maybe they keep him and trade Hiller. Or Maybe they keep both, who knows.



LOL

No we shouldn't. We should hang up and throw the phone out the window.




You had me until I saw Schroeder, 2nd, & 3rd.

Would rather Nuevirth than Holtby, I'm sure WSH would too. Brouwer and Laich aren't needs for us, especially to have both, and I don't see anyway they would deal both.

Orlov, Johansson, Nuevirth for Luongo, Connaution, Ebbett, 4th or 5th

smashian we think so much alike. The difference is the things you saybin your posts are much more polite than the responses I think of in my head.
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#2199 Gooseberries

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

Double

Edited by TruCanuck, 08 February 2013 - 05:57 PM.

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#2200 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

VAN
Ovechkin

WAS
Luongo

Fair value.


:picard:

How do you know that Bernier is not the answer?



How is he any better than Nuevirth or Holtby? Or even Riemer/Scrivens.

The thing you are missing with Bernier is that these teams that are interested, have the exact same thing, they are looking for a proven #1 that will come in and give the team a backbone, they aren't looking to take a risk and pay a big price for a young guy with some upside, they already have guys like that. It is a laterial move from what they currently have, and they would give up important assets to do so.

Makes no sense.

With FLA trading Ellerby, I can't seem them being a trading partner for Luongo this year. They won't give up Gudbranson.

Islanders I also think while they had assets, are also out after getting Thomas.

It leaves only Washington (if they are even interested in making a move or just fire the GM/coach), and Toronto (Nonis wants the price to drop) with an outside chance to Tampa Bay and Philly (off season only).

To me it seems teams around Vancouver are making subtle changes and filling holes, but no major shifts where Lui could be dealt this year.


Not sure how Ellerby affects anything, he would have just been a throw-in anyways. If all he is worth is a 5th how would he have been of anymore value in a Luongo trade.

NYI was never in on it, Thomas doesn't affect anything, it is a great things for them that he isn't playing, otherwise if he was they wouldn't have made the move. They aren't and never were in the market for Lu in the first place. (Unless the GM is total moron) but I justed wanted to say the Thomas move doesn't change anything.

Washington, Florida and Toronto are the only teams 100% in the market right now. Philly isn't and won't be even in it if Bryz continues his stellar play. (Likewise with TB and Lindback)

It will be interesting to see where it goes from here. With Washington continuing to struggle and continuing to flush more and more of there season down the toilet you have to wonder if GM is starting to change his mind on whether they are seriously interested.
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#2201 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:10 PM

Lou and Jensen to Washington.

Forsberg, Orlov and Ribeiro ? If not Orlov cuz too much ask, Alzner...

Why does Washington bite? Currently have two goalies below .900 save %, could bring up Jensen right away. They're missing a decent winger or they would not have Ovechkin playing his off wing. They're also not gelling with Ribeiro as a top 6 centre even as much as he is playing well; might as well get that goaltending and challenge MoJo to step into a role as 2C behind Backstrom. Jensen ain't Forsberg, but a great concession and they also leave themselves cap space to fill any other holes! (Currently $6.3 under cap).

edit note; last game MoJo was also playing wing with Backstrom and Brouwer. Sort of wastes Backstrom as a top line centre. He would come back to form if playing with Ovechkin again...

Open to feedback as to adding a goalie in return?

That puts us 6 deep at centre for a play off run with Hank, Kess, Ribeiro, Schroeder, LapDog and Manny. It provides $5 mill in cap relief next year (Ribeiro is a $5 mill rental), upgrades Jensen to Forsberg and scores us a great young D!

Edited by Canuck Surfer, 08 February 2013 - 06:23 PM.

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#2202 Pears

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

Hamhuis - Edler
Garrison - Bieksa
Ballard - Tanev

Our defense is playing great right now so it isn't a concern. A guy like Brouwer or a top six center is someone we should target.

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 08 February 2013 - 06:13 PM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2203 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:21 PM

Neuvirth Mojo for Lu and Raymond is the offer... Would you guys accept?


No, valuewise it isn't quite there.

Tom Wilson is a "huge risk" - why? In what way? And if he's such a risk, why do you want the Canucks to take him? You're suffering from the classic Canuck fan bias of making proposals that involve "elite" Canucks going one way, and crappy, risky, fodder that the Canucks will reluctantly accept because they're nice guys (Smashian did the same thing with Derick Brassard) coming back, even though the scale is actually heavily tipped towards Vancouver's favour.


Lol, after seeing what Ellerby and Loktionov got, what do you actually think Brassard is worth? Not much. With the way Raymond is playing a 1 for 1 would be completely fair. CBJ fans say he can't play outside the top 6, is an average skater and is soft, easy to separate from the puck.

And yeah Tom Wilson is a risk, prior to this season he really didn't show anything impressive offensively. And his skating is a question. There is some upside, but remember Ben Eager was a mid-1st round pick, and he put up some pretty good numbers in Junior too. I see him more along those lines personally, or atleast I did last year around the draft. We will see how he does, I would rather Orlov myself.

Here's a question: who would you trade Jannik Hansen, Brendan Gaunce, and Chris Tanev for? That's basically what you're asking Washington to give up (and flattering to Tanev, realistically).


Yeah if I had a deeper prospect pool (In terms of high end talent) and that was a major need like Washington.

Brouwer
Laich
Holtby

Luongo
Raymond
Schroeder
2nd


Good Lord no.

Luongo > Laich + Holtby
Schroeder + Raymond + 2nd >>>> Brouwer
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#2204 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

Im stated my opinion to say Tom Wilson is a risk at this point. Just like you have no problem saying your opinion on several topics on here. Surpised your interested in Tom Wilson considering didnt you make a thread that wasnt the greatest towards Kassian, are they not similar?


Kassian is easily better IMO, better player, higher upside. Not really all that close either for me, Kassian is a better skater, better offense. Wilson brings the physical element, but I am not sold on the other two.

And those are the things that separate guys like Ben Eager (Who was a 1st Rounder) from Kassian who is easily already a better player than him at 22.
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#2205 Pears

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

Brouwer
Laich
Holtby

Luongo
Raymond
Schroeder
2nd


Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Hansen
Brouwer Laich Kassian
Higgins Lapierre Weise/Volpatti

Hamhuis Bieksa
Edler Tanev
Ballard Garrison

Schneider
Holtby

If you take out Schroeder and replace him with Manny sign me up

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Booth - Kesler - Schroeder
Burrows - Laich - Brouwer
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen

That depth :mellow:
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#2206 Primus099

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:27 PM

Actually I was a friend of the familly...does that help you at all?



that's cool cause i grew up playing with Sidney Crosby
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#2207 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

Forsberg, Alzner, and a few picks or prospects?


Not sure why we would target Alzner, and not sure why they would give him up either.

smashian we think so much alike. The difference is the things you saybin your posts are much more polite than the responses I think of in my head.


Glad to know someone agrees and thinks the same as me. And that I am not just spewing out things that no one agrees with. :P

It is also kind of ironic because I took over Pittsburgh in "prestige worldwide" after you left.

Lou and Jensen to Washington.

Forsberg, Orlov and Ribeiro ? If not Orlov cuz too much ask, Alzner...


Ehh.

Not a big fan of giving up Jensen. And we look for character players. Ribeiro doesn't fit that IMO. Good player but I just don't see him as a fit.

Also Ribeiro has been there best player apparently, so I don't see them giving him up.

I would rather just trade him for futures and go with a top 6 consistenting of: The Sedins, Burrows, Kes, Booth, Kassian/Raymond.
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#2208 Merci

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

Brouwer and Laich both have tons of playoff experience and have shown up when it counts, both are big and can score timely goals.

Schroeder and Raymond have been fantastic, against terrible teams. Once we face mega top lines in the playoffs you really want Raymond and Schroeder being the shut down 3rd line? Maybe Schroeder has a place on the 2nd wing, and so does Mason Raymond. That doesn't matter at this point, we probably have 5 potential 2nd line wingers to go with Kesler and Booth, what we don't have is veteran in their prime big gritty scoring for our 3rd line.

Schroeder, and Raymond are both expendable in this situation.

We upgrade these two into Brouwer and Laich. You have to work with what you have and essentially we have a 2nd line in development of Schroeder and Raymond, it doesn't play the way we will need it to with Kesler back. It is the same scenario as Hodgson being on the third.

It may not look good on paper but when our 4th line is Higgins/Lapierre/Weise and our third line is Brouwer/Laich/Kassian

You will see the difference it makes.
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#2209 Lui's Knob

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:49 PM

With ovi on the block, could it be conceivable that a lui for ovi trade be possible? With spare parts going both ways... With oveckhin it would be a fresh start and would ease the Sedins off
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#2210 Italia2006

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:54 PM

With ovi on the block, could it be conceivable that a lui for ovi trade be possible? With spare parts going both ways... With oveckhin it would be a fresh start and would ease the Sedins off

I wouldn't want Ovi for free.
He's off his steroids and has never been the same since.
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#2211 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:57 PM

Brouwer and Laich both have tons of playoff experience and have shown up when it counts, both are big and can score timely goals.

Schroeder and Raymond have been fantastic, against terrible teams. Once we face mega top lines in the playoffs you really want Raymond and Schroeder being the shut down 3rd line? Maybe Schroeder has a place on the 2nd wing, and so does Mason Raymond. That doesn't matter at this point, we probably have 5 potential 2nd line wingers to go with Kesler and Booth, what we don't have is veteran in their prime big gritty scoring for our 3rd line.

Schroeder, and Raymond are both expendable in this situation.

We upgrade these two into Brouwer and Laich. You have to work with what you have and essentially we have a 2nd line in development of Schroeder and Raymond, it doesn't play the way we will need it to with Kesler back. It is the same scenario as Hodgson being on the third.

It may not look good on paper but when our 4th line is Higgins/Lapierre/Weise and our third line is Brouwer/Laich/Kassian

You will see the difference it makes.



Schroeder is not "expendable" we are talking about a 22 year old who is showing alot of upside and that he is already an NHL player. That's not something you trade for a one-shot thing, or risk it all move like acquiring both of them would be. Especially for a team with such a bare cupboard like we have.

Brouwer is redundant, right now when healthy Higgins in on the 4th line, he is a fully capable 2nd/3rd line guy. If we feel the need to send JS down (even though I wouldn't) we could just trade Raymond for a center that could play on the 3rd or use Lappy.

We don't need them (Brouwer especially) and I doubt they would give us Laich, and maybe not even Brouwer either.

We have depth, unless we can add a good 2way center that is a for sure upgrade on Lappy, we should just shoot for all futures with this trade.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 08 February 2013 - 06:58 PM.

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#2212 Merci

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:13 PM

Schroeder is not "expendable" we are talking about a 22 year old who is showing alot of upside and that he is already an NHL player. That's not something you trade for a one-shot thing, or risk it all move like acquiring both of them would be. Especially for a team with such a bare cupboard like we have.

Brouwer is redundant, right now when healthy Higgins in on the 4th line, he is a fully capable 2nd/3rd line guy. If we feel the need to send JS down (even though I wouldn't) we could just trade Raymond for a center that could play on the 3rd or use Lappy.

We don't need them (Brouwer especially) and I doubt they would give us Laich, and maybe not even Brouwer either.

We have depth, unless we can add a good 2way center that is a for sure upgrade on Lappy, we should just shoot for all futures with this trade.


We don't have depth in the bottom 6.

Raymond and Schroeder will not perform the way they are now in a playoff setting.

If anything,

Luongo
Raymond
2nd

Laich
Hotlby
Orlov

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Schroeder
Hansen Laich Kassian
Higgins Lapierre Weise


I know you like Schroeder but he's too small, let's upgrade our size and experience.
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Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#2213 BertuzziJr 2.0

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

Got to be honest,
The idea of a Luongo and Booth plus for Ovechkin plus gets me excited.
Having lines like the lines below would give us a few lines that can give us really great scoring depth

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows/Kassian
Kesler - Schroder - Ovechkin
Hansen - Lappy (washington player) - Kassian
Normal 4th line
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#2214 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

We don't have depth in the bottom 6.

Raymond and Schroeder will not perform the way they are now in a playoff setting.

If anything,

Luongo
Raymond
2nd

Laich
Hotlby
Orlov

I know you like Schroeder but he's too small, let's upgrade our size and experience.


The value is that trade is just terrible.

Luongo > Laich + Holtby
Raymond + 2nd > Orlov

Schroeder is small but doesn't play like it, that's the key for small players, he is small in stature, but he is very quick, stocky and strong, he will be fine at this level.

You seem to have missed the fact our issue in recent playoffs has been scoring, taking out 2 offensive players like Raymond and Schroeder don't help that.

Specifics aside, the deal is bad either way.
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#2215 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

That Shore/Petrovic combination is sorta comparable to my Frattin/Finn combination, although I would take Petrovic over Finn and Frattin over Shore. (Sorta the best of both)

But good post. Wouldn't mind those two, I really like Petrovic.

As much as I'd have liked to see Frattin in a deal, the rest of the pieces from Toronto are certainly hard to get to thrilled about - not much there that fits aside from their high picks.
Aside from Petrovic being one of the prospects I'd most like to see, Shore also has the positives of being a two way center who is right at that NHL ready point - you can just never assume the health of players, and having another quality center imo is more important than a RW and OHL defenseman in the Leafs proposal.

We would need Upshall to make the deal work, or else the whole thing would go up in shreds.

Like you though, I don't see Goc as a major need, he isn't a big upgrade on Manny or Lappy IMO. Though I am not really a fan of Mattias (nothing against him either) I would almost rather him, I think Goc is a bit better player, but with him not being a need, the younger, more physical guy with the upside might better.


I don't think you and King have looked very closely at the actual type of player Goc is. 11 goals and 16 assists in 57 games on the offensively challenged Panthers is pretty impressive actually (and pretty much in line with what he's done three years running). What makes it more impressive is that he had only 38.2% offensive zone starts, faced the highest quality of competition of anyone on the Panthers (even higher than the shutdown blueliners, Weaver and Garrison), had a positive relative corsi of 4.7 (9th on the Panthers despite his role) - and is signed for another year at a mere $1.7. Goc is an extremely under-rated player here who imo would be an ideal addition - I'd be thrilled if he were the roster player included in a deal.

Higgins Goc Hansen = one hell of a two way third line.

Edited by oldnews, 08 February 2013 - 08:08 PM.

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#2216 LOL_dre

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:04 PM

There is no way GMMG is dumb enough to trade for a 9 Million plus dollar left winger. It just doesn't work with the current cap let alone when the cap goes down next year.
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#2217 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:10 PM

There is no way GMMG is dumb enough to trade for a 9 Million plus dollar left winger. It just doesn't work with the current cap let alone when the cap goes down next year.


Agreed - 8 more years at 9.5 million - there's no backdiving in that contract, no incentive to retire early - not to mention that our top line LW produces quite fine - Gillis probably wouldn't take that off waivers.

Edited by oldnews, 08 February 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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#2218 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

".. We are going to make good decisions, were not going to do anything short term, were not going to blow anything up, we like the people here, were just going to be smart about how we do it"

- George McPhee

So it doesn't sound like they will give up anything massive, I don't see Forsberg, Kuznetsov, or any top piece coming our way, but if the reference to making decisions is what I think it is, I think they will look into ti more, and maybe someone like Orlov is on the table, and they aren't scared to trade 1st's.

They have little time to make a move, are they really going to just let this season go? This is great for us right now as the Caps are dead last in the league.

Edit:

Lebrun said, "They need saves, I'm sorry, but Holtby and Nuevirth have been terrible"

He also added that they want to keep with there vision of getting younger and to keep core young pieces in place, also he said they don't seem interested in moving the 1st.

Maybe I was wrong about the first, but for Luongo, perhaps Orlov could be had, he is good but he isn't the absolute cream of the crop (Kuznetsov, Forsberg)

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 08 February 2013 - 08:20 PM.

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#2219 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:16 PM

As much as I'd have liked to see Frattin in a deal, the rest of the pieces from Toronto are certainly hard to get to thrilled about - not much there that fits aside from their high picks.
Aside from Petrovic being one of the prospects I'd most like to see, Shore also has the positives of being a two way center who is right at that NHL ready point - you can just never assume the health of players, and having another quality center imo is more important than a RW and OHL defenseman in the Leafs proposal.


The difference between Finn and Petrovic long term isn't really anything.

They both project to be the same thing, 3rd or 4th D-man, just 2nd pair guys. They just play difference styles. Petrovic brings more physicality, while Finn is a more reliable and fluid player. Offense is probably the same, or maybe Finn gets the edge in due to his advantage in skating.

Finn is just not as far along, I like Petro more, but Finn could very well turn out to be the same.

I don't think you and King have looked very closely at the actual type of player Goc is. 11 goals and 16 assists in 57 games on the offensively challenged Panthers is pretty impressive actually (and pretty much in line with what he's done three years running). What makes it more impressive is that he had only 38.2% offensive zone starts, faced the highest quality of competition of anyone on the Panthers (even higher than the shutdown blueliners, Weaver and Garrison), had a positive relative corsi of 4.7 (9th on the Panthers despite his role) - and is signed for another year at a mere $1.7. Goc is an extremely under-rated player here who imo would be an ideal addition - I'd be thrilled if he were the roster player included in a deal.

Higgins Goc Hansen = one hell of a two way third line.


I know what kind of player he is.

He is like Pahlsson, just a tad less defensively IMO, and a bit more offense. He is still defensive center but he can puts some points up now and then.

Is he a big upgrade on Lappy though? Offense the same, Lappy is more physical, both are solid defensively. I just don't see a major upgrade.

That's why I say if we can get a good two-way guy who is a clearly a nice upgrade, then I would look into it, if Goc is in the deal as one of the major assets, I would look at something else.
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#2220 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:51 PM

He is like Pahlsson, just a tad less defensively IMO, and a bit more offense. He is still defensive center but he can puts some points up now and then.

Is he a big upgrade on Lappy though? Offense the same, Lappy is more physical, both are solid defensively. I just don't see a major upgrade.

That's why I say if we can get a good two-way guy who is a clearly a nice upgrade, then I would look into it, if Goc is in the deal as one of the major assets, I would look at something else.


Ok Smashian - don't see much point of going on endlessly with you over this, so this will be my last post on the matter.
Petrovic and Finn, aside from age, are quite different types of players - and Petrovic is a righthanded guy as opposed to Finn,
Goc imo is not comparable to Pahlsson or Lapierre who, as much as I like both of them, aren't really two way players - simply not bottom six guys in the 30-40 point range while still getting the defensive zone starts and facing the toughest competition. I love Lapierre and Malhotra but I see them as ideal fourth liners who give us a depth advantage - Goc imo is the type of player who does the same on the third line - on the offensive side, the difference between potential 20 and 40 point players.
IMO Goc is more comparable to Higgins and Hansen in the sense of the defensive and offensive balance to their games.
The Canucks don't really need a major roster asset in a Luongo deal - the bulk of the return imo is best left in the form or prospects/futures, both for cap reasons and adding some organizational balance to the depth of prospect pool.

Edited by oldnews, 08 February 2013 - 10:06 PM.

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