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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#2551 The Bookie

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

And this thread explodes for 4 pages in the next hour with 7 new proposals for the Leafs or the Flyers.


haha hey man I'm just reporting the facts and doing my part to get us to 6.0, not responsible for the gossip queens.

Edited by The Bookie, 11 February 2013 - 06:46 PM.

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#2552 Caboose

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:47 PM

Joke of a fanbase. Wanted to trade Kessel because he didn't score for a few games, too.


Now I'm by no means agreeing with Damien here, but I'm sorry, a CANUCKS fan is calling a fanbase a joke? You guys have the best goalie you've ever had and likely will ever have and you're constantly calling for his head and burned down your city after losing a game, but we're the joke?
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#2553 theminister

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:57 PM

Damn, I just had lunch with my dad and he's a Leafs fan.

Golden opportunity missed.
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#2554 Remy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:57 PM

LP

Also, Reimer leaves with an injury, how desperate might that make the Leafs?
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#2555 Kent.S

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:58 PM

LP

Also, Reimer leaves with an injury, how desperate might that make the Leafs?


Lets hope they're pretty desperate.
Seems like cox thinks the leafs will go after a ufa goalie.
Anyone know if he's got something against Luo?
His tweets just strike me that way.

Edited by Kent.S, 11 February 2013 - 07:00 PM.

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#2556 bobopan

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:06 PM

I thought it was widely reported Luongo refused to go to Toronto already?... anyways. I would do Kadri for Luongo easily if it were on the table and Luo wanted to go there.. MG has to be careful about asking too much. I don't think there is nearly as much interest in Luongo as many ppl are hoping and thinking.. If he waits till the summer then he's really got his back up against a wall.
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#2557 The Bookie

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:12 PM

also FWIW from a Lu trade angle, I'm finding this Leafs-Flyers game more interesting for the Bryz getting pulled angle than the Reimer injury side. During 2nd intermission they were saying Bryz couldn't really be faulted for the 4 goals but I don't agree, he looked shaky and it seemed like that translated to the defense, not the other way around. Boucher in relief has been predictably average, didn't have to face much at first but he let in the first real chance in the 3rd (and JVR kind of whiffed on his breakaway shot, puck went in anyways).

Scrivens in relief has looked almost as good as Reimer, and unless it's a career ending injury, it's not going to make them trade for a long-term contract.
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#2558 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

Well; if you're really counting Burrows is a LW playing on the Sedin's right side.

It's great, smashing actually ::D , when it works. But it's also a 3 x 185 lb line that has been susceptible to size match up issues; cue Zack Kassian as a fill in, or Samuelsson when he stayed healthy in past play off's... Maybe that option solves everything? But it also only works when we do a good job controlling match up's; for all the chat about Hodgson receiving sheltered minutes the Sedins/Burrows received the highest O'zone starts of any line in the league, several years in a row. And I've heard you complain many times about AV's failure to control match up's, in reality its a depth problem.

When injuries, or creative coaches in a 7 game series, take that match up away we have had to rely on depth scoring. And each of the years we lost (save the Byfuglien year when they were just too big) attrition on the 2knd and 3rd line due to constant pounding left us with no depth scoring if the Twins were shut down. Further, when those injuries occured, see Sedin taking D draws against Lucic / Krecji, we could no longer shelter the Twins.

That is why we still need depth forwards with size!

The way I see it, picking up a Brouwer means Burrows, Kassian and him can be alternated to whichever line needs size; Burrows becomes the ultimate roamer playing left or right. And how bad can it be deciding to choose Raymond or Higgins to fill in on the 4th line?

If not Brouwer, someone similar. Its a problem championship teams have!


Non of those deals are really intriguing, that last one is especially bad. I like having Higgins, no need to throw him in that deal. Might even rather him than Brouwer.



Actually there is a problem.

LW - RW
Daniel - Burrows
Booth - Kassian
Raymond - Hansen
Higgins - Weise
Manny - Volpatti

Not sure where Brouwer fits, he has to play top 9 and we already have a plethera of top 9 wingers. Wingers are the last thing we need at this point.

As for Marcus Johansson.

THN, Washington's site and Hockeydb, probably the 3 most up to date sites, all having him at 6'1, 205. Even found another site that has his there.

He was 5'11 180 when drafted, but he has gotten bigger.

He can play center or wing, brings two way ability, good offensive skill (A really nice wrist shot) and bring more grit than you think. He would suit our 3rd line center spot very nice with the Wingers we have for him to play with, and he has nice upside.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 11 February 2013 - 07:47 PM.

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#2559 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

Well; if you're really counting Burrows is a LW playing on the Sedin's right side.

It's great, smashing actually ::D , when it works. But it's also a 3 x 185 lb line that has been susceptible to size match up issues; cue Zack Kassian as a fill in, or Samuelsson when he stayed healthy in past play off's... Maybe that option solves everything? But it also only works when we do a good job controlling match up's; for all the chat about Hodgson receiving sheltered minutes the Sedins/Burrows received the highest O'zone starts of any line in the league, several years in a row. And I've heard you complain many times about AV's failure to control match up's, in reality its a depth problem.

When injuries, or creative coaches in a 7 game series, take that match up away we have had to rely on depth scoring. And each of the years we lost (save the Byfuglien year when they were just too big) attrition on the 2knd and 3rd line due to constant pounding left us with no depth scoring if the Twins were shut down. Further, when those injuries occured, see Sedin taking D draws against Lucic / Krecji, we could no longer shelter the Twins.

That is why we still need depth forwards with size!

The way I see it, picking up a Brouwer means Burrows, Kassian and him can be alternated to whichever line needs size; Burrows becomes the ultimate roamer playing left or right. And how bad can it be deciding to choose Raymond or Higgins to fill in on the 4th line?

If not Brouwer, someone similar. Its a problem championship teams have!


It would just be better to focus the asset on futures.

bringing in Brouwer would mean having 2 top 9 wingers on the 4th line. A Major waste of assets. As they won't get enough time to produce. That's the issue I see with Brouwer.

I hear what you are saying, but it is a problem we already have, and with that deal it goes from being a good "problem" to having an excess of unneeded wingers.

Also not a fan of his contract.
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#2560 allkill326

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

I thought it was widely reported Luongo refused to go to Toronto already?... anyways. I would do Kadri for Luongo easily if it were on the table and Luo wanted to go there.. MG has to be careful about asking too much. I don't think there is nearly as much interest in Luongo as many ppl are hoping and thinking.. If he waits till the summer then he's really got his back up against a wall.


Kadri and Bozak for Luongo?
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#2561 playboi19

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

Now I'm by no means agreeing with Damien here, but I'm sorry, a CANUCKS fan is calling a fanbase a joke? You guys have the best goalie you've ever had and likely will ever have and you're constantly calling for his head and burned down your city after losing a game, but we're the joke?

Try talking once the leafs can actually beat us in a game let alone make the playoffs.

Joke of the league.
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#2562 DeNiro

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

Nonis is about as patient and stubborn as Gillis. Don't expect him to make any knee-jerk trades.

He'll go down with the ship before overpaying for a player.
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#2563 The Bookie

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:38 PM

Nonis is about as patient and stubborn as Gillis. Don't expect him to make any knee-jerk trades.

He'll go down with the ship before overpaying for a player.


Definitely. You don't change your mind and take on something as big as Lu's contract because your starter tweaked his groin (or whatever it was). If it's a season-ender, I wonder if they take a look at Kipper, anyone know what the relationship was like between him and Phaneuf?

edit - nah, the more I think about it that would still be too much of an overpayment for a team not in their 'window'

Edited by The Bookie, 11 February 2013 - 09:51 PM.

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#2564 Rypien37

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

*
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Definitely. You don't change your mind and take on something as big as Lu's contract because your starter tweaked his groin (or whatever it was). If it's a season-ender, I wonder if they take a look at Kipper, anyone know what the relationship was like between him and Phaneuf?

edit - nah, the more I think about it that would still be too much of an overpayment for a team not in their 'window'



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#2565 The Bookie

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:55 PM

Is that a lost scene from Fubar? :towel:
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#2566 Rypien37

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

Is that a lost scene from Fubar? :towel:


:bigblush:

Some strip club back when Dion was a Lame in 2007.
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#2567 canuckfan85

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:02 PM

all I see in that photo is a chick with man pecs, and stickers that go on about loving alberta beef and lady parts- real classy stuff
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#2568 sampy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

It would just be better to focus the asset on futures.

bringing in Brouwer would mean having 2 top 9 wingers on the 4th line. A Major waste of assets. As they won't get enough time to produce. That's the issue I see with Brouwer.

I hear what you are saying, but it is a problem we already have, and with that deal it goes from being a good "problem" to having an excess of unneeded wingers.

Also not a fan of his contract.


I agree. He's a good player but the Canuck have players that can fill his role. His caphit doesn't fit under next years cap. Also, the Caps love Brouwer, he's playing on their first line and just resigned him.

Lu, Sauve, Ballard, 2nd
For
Carlson, Forsberg and Neuvirth

Edited by sampy, 11 February 2013 - 10:21 PM.

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#2569 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:22 PM

I agree. He's a good player but the Canuck have players that can fill his role. His caphit doesn't fit under next years cap. Also, the Caps love Brouwer, he's playing on their first line and just resigned him.

Lu, Sauve, Ballard, 2nd
For
Carlson, Forsberg and Neuvirth


I was with you.

Until I was your counter offer. :lol: :P

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 11 February 2013 - 10:22 PM.

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#2570 Rypien37

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

I agree. He's a good player but the Canuck have players that can fill his role. His caphit doesn't fit under next years cap. Also, the Caps love Brouwer, he's playing on their first line and just resigned him.

Lu, Sauve, Ballard, 2nd
For
Carlson, Forsberg and Neuvirth


And that helps us up front for a long play off run how?

Or D is solid, solidifying the top 9 is the issue.
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#2571 Mustapha

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

Now I'm by no means agreeing with Damien here, but I'm sorry, a CANUCKS fan is calling a fanbase a joke? You guys have the best goalie you've ever had and likely will ever have and you're constantly calling for his head and burned down your city after losing a game, but we're the joke?


No playoffs since 2004, no SCF Finals appearance since 1967.

If Leafs fans gave a crap, maybe they would get angry and burn down their city.

They are too busy trying to boot their legally elected mayor from office.
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#2572 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:46 PM

Well, I'm not one of those that forgets about past shortcomings if a player is hot now, but to grade Raymond's playoff performance in vacuum without the context of the rest of the team's intermittent invisibility is ignoring the whole picture.
The twins are guilty at times of going cold in the playoffs from time to time. That doesn't mean that one of these times they aren't going to absolutely hit their stride at just the right times and dominate. I think Raymond is young and has had consistency issues, to be sure. What makes me continue to believe he will produce is that every time people count him out, he puts up points. And when he's not putting up points, he is making smart plays away from the puck, playing responsible defense, and overall contributing in ways that aren't otherwise tangible.
And he doesn't take stupid penalties like Ott does.
I don't know enough about Brouwer to comment on whether he is a better option than Raymond, but given the connection Raymond has made with JS, it seems a good idea to me to at least keep Raymond around fro another couple of years, and if the contract is short and for the right money, they can evaluate whether or not to make a long term commitment.
In my mind, any Lou trade doesn't have Raymond packaged as value added.


I'm not ignoring the whole picture, I'm not talking about one series, not even one playoff run, but FOUR.

I don't agree that when he's not producing he's 'making smart plays'.. often he's taking fruitless shots that either miss the net and go out the other end or hit the goalie in the logo..

True, that he's responsible defensively, but to be fair he's not very strong when he's checking someone which makes him ineffective as a true checker.

I am not saying that he'll never have a good playoff, I'm saying so far he hasn't & that the Canucks shouldn't risk having him in the top-9 going for another cup run (like I said: what is the definition of insanity?) just because he's having a good start to the reg. season.

As a fan, obviously, if he stays I hope he turns it around and has his first awesome playoff, but if I were GMMG I would not be taking the risk..

Edited by Teemu Selšnne, 11 February 2013 - 10:47 PM.

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#2573 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

Well, I guess we disagree on this.

I'm not hung up on Brouwer; just the concept of another bigger, hard nosed and fast RW.

Nor am I opposed to a LW traded in the process (you pick, Higgins, Raymond, Booth... and Burrows plays LW);

Natural LW; Sedin, Burrows, Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Volpati prospect Jensen and Lapierre plays here, so does Manny.

Natural RW, Kassian, Hansen, Weise, Injured Pinnizotto and Archibald.

That right side is not the same! Even status quo; forward group as a whole, too small...




It would just be better to focus the asset on futures.

bringing in Brouwer would mean having 2 top 9 wingers on the 4th line. A Major waste of assets. As they won't get enough time to produce. That's the issue I see with Brouwer.

I hear what you are saying, but it is a problem we already have, and with that deal it goes from being a good "problem" to having an excess of unneeded wingers.

Also not a fan of his contract.


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#2574 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:31 PM

I agree. He's a good player but the Canuck have players that can fill his role. His caphit doesn't fit under next years cap. Also, the Caps love Brouwer, he's playing on their first line and just resigned him.

Lu, Sauve, Ballard, 2nd
For
Carlson, Forsberg and Neuvirth


Uhmm; thats a great trade.

Carlson > Ballard, he's knocked Mike Green, an all star, down the roster! Plus he's a right D and right shot with almost as much speed as Bally (?), which means Garrison, Edler and Hamhuis all play on their natural left side.

Edler / Carlson
Hamhuis / Bieksa
Garrison / Tanev

Thats hot!

Then add in Forsberg???

And that helps us up front for a long play off run how?

Or D is solid, solidifying the top 9 is the issue.


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#2575 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:33 PM

Well, I guess we disagree on this.

I'm not hung up on Brouwer; just the concept of another bigger, hard nosed and fast RW.

Nor am I opposed to a LW traded in the process (you pick, Higgins, Raymond, Booth... and Burrows plays LW);

Natural LW; Sedin, Burrows, Booth, Raymond, Higgins, Volpati prospect Jensen and Lapierre plays here, so does Manny.

Natural RW, Kassian, Hansen, Weise, Injured Pinnizotto and Archibald.

That right side is not the same! Even status quo; forward group as a whole, too small...


I don't know, I think we are big enough.

The thing is, who would we trade? With the way Raymond has been playing, i'm not really a fan of trading him, and I don't think he is much an upgrade on Higgins, since Higgins is way faster.

All that aside, I doubt WSH would trade him anyways. Just signed him to a new contract and now they have him on the 1st line.
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#2576 WHL rocks

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:36 PM

I agree. He's a good player but the Canuck have players that can fill his role. His caphit doesn't fit under next years cap. Also, the Caps love Brouwer, he's playing on their first line and just resigned him.

Lu, Sauve, Ballard, 2nd
For
Carlson, Forsberg and Neuvirth


You are dreaming.

Carlson + Forsberg? You would be very lucky to get one of those two let alone both.

$11 mill in salary going and $5 mill coming back?

Luongo + Raymond + Sauve + 3rd which becomes 2nd if Raymond walks as UFA
Approx $7.6 cap hit and $9 mill salary.

for

MoJo + Brouwer + Neuvirth + Poti
Approx 7.25 mill cap hit and salary. Poti's salary is 100k more than cap hit and Brouwer's cap and salary increase by $1.3 mill next year.
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#2577 Rypien37

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

Uhmm; thats a great trade.

Carlson > Ballard, he's knocked Mike Green, an all star, down the roster! Plus he's a right D and right shot with almost as much speed as Bally (?), which means Garrison, Edler and Hamhuis all play on their natural left side.

Edler / Carlson
Hamhuis / Bieksa
Garrison / Tanev

Thats hot!

Then add in Forsberg???


He hasn't even played a game yet.....how would he help in the playoffs.....
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#2578 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:21 AM

Posted ImageIt's pretty simple. The team that works the hardest wins. (We were) outworked, outexecuted, outdetailed, out goaltended -- out-a lot of things.
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— Sharks coach Todd McLellan on San Jose's 6-2 loss in Columbus on Monday

Hey; I ve debated with CDC'ers over the last few days that we cant go with status quo > adding Kassian is not enough physical improvement (we have enough talent!).

What about San Jose, and they're window?
After a 5-0 start no regulation wins. I remember 2 years ago everyone was salivating over Dan Boyle being a possible rental; but of course they recovered. Thats a team that needs a shake up?

What can we target???

Edited by Canuck Surfer, 12 February 2013 - 12:21 AM.

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#2579 DeNiro

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:35 AM

No way can we make a team as good as San Jose better.

I don't see a scenario where we ever make a trade with them.
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#2580 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

I would sit, or trade Higgins personally. But if its Brouwer and MoJo; its not an issue for our cap this year. Watch top cup favorites; they always have seriously good players, even in the press box as healthy scratches. But then they come needed.

Raymond does look very good this year; burst and stop then an added element of puck control and passing instead of just going wide for a weak shot or getting knocked down. He's added an element of deception to his game.

Booth is just such a match up problem for other teams; lightning speed and he's very big and strong. Go back 8 (?) years and look at Edmonton's last cup finals team. They were slammed for having questionable talent, Pronger aside, but had so many guys like Booth who were big and fast (including Torres) to control match ups. So when his scoring or passing is off, his line still draws big guys in match ups which free's the Twins.


You guys, Ossi and yourself, are great hockey fans. I come from a coaching background. You get excited by the best talent, which is fair enough. If I don't have anyone as good as the Twins, I look at how many guys i can beat up and take out of the picture; ref's swallow come play off time. I look at our team and see ways to put them in positions that are hard to deal with.

- First thing I'm doing is sending guys to chat with Bieksa (who can't resist) and pound Tanev who is small. Then we all see what happens when Edler or Ballard play on their off side; they start making mistakes. And I lick my chops when Alberts plays or when I see Raymond alone in a corner.
- I'm loading big guys on the Twins and daring Kesler's line to win the game against my top line.
-I save a big behemoth to sit in front of the net on the PP when Garrison is not on the ice, nobody else can move him. (And this btw is the biggest benefit to adding Garrison not his shot, we had no one last year).
- I send a big fast for-check but zone off the neutral zone at the same time. Vancouver has numerous dangerous passing D, but nobody who can lug the puck out against pressure.

FYI I did not make these idea's up; observed them being executed by Quenneville, Suter, Trotz and Julien. And watched as we ran out of bodies who could compete.

Look, if Kesler, Booth and ? can stay healthy playing hell bent hockey for 16 wins, great! But what has looked like a cup winner has broken down right there the last 4 play off years! A little extra depth would do it!

I don't know, I think we are big enough.

The thing is, who would we trade? With the way Raymond has been playing, i'm not really a fan of trading him, and I don't think he is much an upgrade on Higgins, since Higgins is way faster.

All that aside, I doubt WSH would trade him anyways. Just signed him to a new contract and now they have him on the 1st line.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 12 February 2013 - 01:11 AM.

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