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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#2641 thad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:51 PM

I think you've worded your expectations even a little stronger than I would myself, but I was prepared for some of those players at least to be worse than they have been. There's still room for them to be more productive (certainly in consistency and when it counts) but I can't really complain at this point and hope it is enough to have this team be as competitive as they can when the playoffs roll around.


yeah i didnt mean i thought that was all going to happen and definitely exaggerated. i meant im sitting here going "come on, something has to go wrong".. im too used to yelling at taylor pyatts and mason raymonds every game, this season kinda caught me off guard... even Lu finally came out of the gate on fire haha
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#2642 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:15 PM

Call it whatever you want - it looks like you're full of crap though.


Why is the context different? Hodgson kept behind closed doors any desires he spoke of with Gillis. At least that side of it was professional. It gave the team the flexibility to do what they felt was best of the situation.

Lou has gone public. In a charming sort of way; but its still public.

It's hard to argue that has not handcuffed us here?

From my standpoint, a guy who accepts a $60 mill deal and then throws his weight around influencing things is not cool.

FTR; I don't have to speak for Luongo, never tried to. But he's on record and I expressed a view on it. My view is a guy who wants out because he does not start is pouting. You are welcome to disagree but calling posters "full of crap" or pathetic is not cool either.

Waste of time - pointless, substance-free rant.
You have no credibility to speak for Luongo - and clearly, no clear idea regardless.
Luo was put on the spot and asked if he'd waive his ntc. He gave diplomatic responses from the get go. Your attempts to play Dr. Phil and give us the inner workings or his psyche and his 'challenged manhood' are a pathetic fail. Context matters.
Hodgson is irrelevant here, the context was entirely different, and your opinions on that matter are as foggy as they are on this one, so likewise, that's a waste of time that's not worth revisiting.


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#2643 ccc44

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

If you go by what Gillis has said in his interview today he seems to favor a off season deal is what he expects .

Everyone knows the cap goes down and the canucks have little to no flexibility as it stands and he claims buying out Lou is not something there talking about then it appears he is backing himself into a corner .

Gillis has to trade one or else other teams are just going to call his bluff this summer and force the Canucks to buy him out so they can sign him to a shorter deal while the canucks walk away with nothing and the owners stuck with a bill for the buy out and Mike Gillis with out a job

Edited by ccc44, 12 February 2013 - 02:26 PM.

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#2644 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

If you go by what Gillis has said in his interview today he seems to favor a off season deal is what he expects .

Everyone knows the cap goes down and the canucks have little to no flexibility as it stands and he claims buying out Lou is not something there talking about then it appears he is backing himself into a corner .

Gillis has to trade one or else other teams are just going to call his bluff this summer and force the Canucks to buy him out so they can sign him to a shorter deal while the canucks walk away with nothing and the owners stuck with a bill for the buy out and Mike Gillis with out a job


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#2645 theminister

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

The one thing I heard Gillis say that I think indicated what a deal must include if it is to happen this season was the part where he referred to being

"strong down the middle - may have a weakness there in a couple spots..."

Judging by that I'd guess that a deal would have to include an affordable, viable 3C - a two way guy with shutdown abilities, who has potential 2C tweener/upside if Kesler's health can't be assumed. Obviously Couturier is ideal if talking Philly (inb4 Smashian's 147th insistence that he knows who is and is not "available"), a guy like Goc imo as one part of a Florida deal (good affordable depth piece but lots of value remaining for futures in a deal) Toronto's roster players are a tough sell and they have no extra depth at C, Washington is even more difficult to find a good fit imo... I think Florida can actually afford a deal, while Philly has a roadblock, so what Gillis wants and who can provide it will require patience.


QFT, brother. QFT.

Edited by theminister, 12 February 2013 - 02:35 PM.

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#2646 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

Why is the context different? Hodgson kept behind closed doors any desires he spoke of with Gillis. At least that side of it was professional. It gave the team the flexibility to do what they felt was best of the situation.

Lou has gone public. In a charming sort of way; but its still public.

It's hard to argue that has not handcuffed us here?

From my standpoint, a guy who accepts a $60 mill deal and then throws his weight around influencing things is not cool.

FTR; I don't have to speak for Luongo, never tried to. But he's on record and I expressed a view on it. My view is a guy who wants out because he does not start is pouting. You are welcome to disagree but calling posters "full of crap" or pathetic is not cool either.


Ok Surfer - you asked a question that I'll answer, but this is pretty much the last I care to engage on this.
I don't see what Gallagher wrote regarding demands to be traded (in December) as a result of conversations with Hodgson's agent to be "kept behind closed doors." That context was initiated entirely by the player's representation.
Luo was scrummed after the playoff loss and asked to waive in traditional Vancouver troll-media fashion - he answered diplomatically - and regardless, what has happened was simply in the cards; it's not of Luongo's doing. The Canucks have two starters - everyone knows this - to try to blame Luongo for 'handcuffing' the Canucks is slanted.
If you want to protest about eliciting the type of responses you have, perhaps you should avoid the kind of inflammatory comments regarding "challenged manhood", "pouting" etc that you persist with. You're trash-talking - it's a common thing in hockey - but in some people's eyes it's borderline trolling given you can't back any of it up with actual comments or context. I'm not going to protest that you aren't being polite enough, but you coming back and whining about the response is pretty weak.

Edited by oldnews, 12 February 2013 - 02:44 PM.

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#2647 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

If you go by what Gillis has said in his interview today he seems to favor a off season deal is what he expects .

Everyone knows the cap goes down and the canucks have little to no flexibility as it stands and he claims buying out Lou is not something there talking about then it appears he is backing himself into a corner .

Gillis has to trade one or else other teams are just going to call his bluff this summer and force the Canucks to buy him out so they can sign him to a shorter deal while the canucks walk away with nothing and the owners stuck with a bill for the buy out and Mike Gillis with out a job


You forgot the part of the interview where gillis also stated they had several scenarios that could make them cap compliant and keep both goalies.
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#2648 Millerdraft

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

If you go by what Gillis has said in his interview today he seems to favor a off season deal is what he expects .

Everyone knows the cap goes down and the canucks have little to no flexibility as it stands and he claims buying out Lou is not something there talking about then it appears he is backing himself into a corner .

Gillis has to trade one or else other teams are just going to call his bluff this summer and force the Canucks to buy him out so they can sign him to a shorter deal while the canucks walk away with nothing and the owners stuck with a bill for the buy out and Mike Gillis with out a job


Gillis can go over the cap by as much as 10% during the offseason and if there are still no takers, Gillis could run with a major youth movement if he got cap squeezed.

	  
D. SEDIN  $6,100,000.00   H. SEDIN  $6,100,000.00   Z. KASSIAN  $870,000.00
N. JENSEN  $895,000.00   R. KESLER  $5,000,000.00   A. BURROWS  $4,500,000.00
D. BOOTH  $4,250,000.00   J. SCHROEDER  $900,000.00   J. HANSEN  $1,350,000.00
A. VOLPATTI  $700,000.00   M. LAPIERRE  $1,000,000.00   D. WEISE  $700,000.00
   #13 FWD  $550,000.00  
	  
LW TOTAL:  $11,945,000.00   C TOTAL:  $13,550,000.00   RW TOTAL:  $7,420,000.00
	  
D. HAMHUIS  $4,500,000.00	  K. BIEKSA  $4,600,000.00
A. EDLER  $5,000,000.00	  J. GARRISON  $4,600,000.00
P. ANDERSSON  $660,000.00	  C. TANEV  $1,250,000.00
#7 D  $700,000.00	  #8 D  $700,000.00
	  
LD TOTAL:  $10,860,000.00	  RD TOTAL:  $11,150,000.00
	  
   C. SCHNEIDER  $4,000,000.00  
   R. LUONGO  $5,333,333.00  
	  
   G TOTAL:  $9,333,333.00  
	  
TOTAL CAP HIT:  $64,258,333.00   SALARY CAP:  $64,300,000.00   CAP SPACE:  $41,667.00
Andersson has $210,000 in ELC bonuses on top of $660k, but there is the bonus cushion provision. Now, whether or not Luongo & Schneider could coexist for yet another year without causing lockeroom issues is a big question mark and something I can't see flying.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#2649 Vansicle

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

Gillis can go over the cap by as much as 10% during the offseason and if there are still no takers, Gillis could run with a major youth movement if he got cap squeezed.

	  
D. SEDIN  $6,100,000.00   H. SEDIN  $6,100,000.00   Z. KASSIAN  $870,000.00
N. JENSEN  $895,000.00   R. KESLER  $5,000,000.00   A. BURROWS  $4,500,000.00
D. BOOTH  $4,250,000.00   J. SCHROEDER  $900,000.00   J. HANSEN  $1,350,000.00
A. VOLPATTI  $700,000.00   M. LAPIERRE  $1,000,000.00   D. WEISE  $700,000.00
   #13 FWD  $550,000.00  
	  
LW TOTAL:  $11,945,000.00   C TOTAL:  $13,550,000.00   RW TOTAL:  $7,420,000.00
	  
D. HAMHUIS  $4,500,000.00	  K. BIEKSA  $4,600,000.00
A. EDLER  $5,000,000.00	  J. GARRISON  $4,600,000.00
P. ANDERSSON  $660,000.00	  C. TANEV  $1,250,000.00
#7 D  $700,000.00	  #8 D  $700,000.00
	  
LD TOTAL:  $10,860,000.00	  RD TOTAL:  $11,150,000.00
	  
   C. SCHNEIDER  $4,000,000.00  
   R. LUONGO  $5,333,333.00  
	  
   G TOTAL:  $9,333,333.00  
	  
TOTAL CAP HIT:  $64,258,333.00   SALARY CAP:  $64,300,000.00   CAP SPACE:  $41,667.00
Andersson has $210,000 in ELC bonuses on top of $660k, but there is the bonus cushion provision. Now, whether or not Luongo & Schneider could coexist for yet another year without causing lockeroom issues is a big question mark and something I can't see flying.

He could, if squeezed, do exactly as you've suggested. I wonder how likely it would be, though. His mantra has been to ice the team that has the best chance to win, and while I believe having two star goaltenders does move toward that end, does sacrificing experienced skaters for youthful ones do more to offset the star goalie tandem than it does to compliment them? It would be an interesting move, but a move that would shift the speculation from goalie controversy to rebuild controversy.
Conventional wisdom says one of them will be traded, and now his comments about this summer being the time to make a move all but put any speculation to rest.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#2650 oldnews

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

^^
Just saw that Dogbyte quote for the first time... ::D
priceless.
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#2651 DeNiro

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:44 PM

If you go by what Gillis has said in his interview today he seems to favor a off season deal is what he expects .

Everyone knows the cap goes down and the canucks have little to no flexibility as it stands and he claims buying out Lou is not something there talking about then it appears he is backing himself into a corner .

Gillis has to trade one or else other teams are just going to call his bluff this summer and force the Canucks to buy him out so they can sign him to a shorter deal while the canucks walk away with nothing and the owners stuck with a bill for the buy out and Mike Gillis with out a job


Gillis has shown already that he won't be bullied into a deal. If the deal isn't there now, he'll just have to wait until the summer.

There will always be a team willing to make a big splash in the offseason. And they'll be willing to pay the price for Luongo if they really want him. I wouldn't underestimate teams like Washington, Philly, Florida, and Tampa doing a deal in the summer if they miss the playoffs or get bounced badly in the first round.
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#2652 D-Money

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

You forgot the part of the interview where gillis also stated they had several scenarios that could make them cap compliant and keep both goalies.


The selective hearing that goes on with some posters is amazing.

Gillis specifically stated that, although they had scenarios available, the time would come when the organization would absolutely have to move one of the goalies - for the sake of the goalies themselves, and the organization. He restated this later in the interview as well.

Gillis may not get the deal he is looking for this season, but there's no way that he keeps Luongo into 2013-14. Even if he has to let him go for less than he wants.
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#2653 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

The selective hearing that goes on with some posters is amazing.

Gillis specifically stated that, although they had scenarios available, the time would come when the organization would absolutely have to move one of the goalies - for the sake of the goalies themselves, and the organization. He restated this later in the interview as well.

Gillis may not get the deal he is looking for this season, but there's no way that he keeps Luongo into 2013-14. Even if he has to let him go for less than he wants.

Says who ? although it is probable that will happen by next season it does not mean it has to get done by then. The only time he is going to be forced to move luongo and take less than what he wants is if/when Luongo enforces the movement clause in the 5th or 6th year of the contract I dont remember which yr it comes into effect.

Has nothing to do with selective hearing at all I was addressing the statement below in regards to how team will wait him out timeline wise, not arguing the fact that a deal has to / will get done at some point for the good of player or organization. Buyout isnt an option and hasnt been discussed.


"Gillis has to trade one or else other teams are just going to call his bluff this summer and force the Canucks to buy him out so they can sign him to a shorter deal while the canucks walk away with nothing and the owners stuck with a bill for the buy out and Mike Gillis with out a job "

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 12 February 2013 - 04:33 PM.

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#2654 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:01 PM

Or he is just simmering down the expectations.perhaps illicit a better offer?

I actually believe he is genuine in this instance though. We've been winning, in several cases due to goal tending when we have injuries.

But really I wanted to comment on the youth movement. The only guy on Miller Draft's list who might be preferred to stay, and is not, is Ballard in favour of Anderson? The rest of that actually makes very logical sense even if we trade Lou.

My agenda remains a combination of futures and some play off muscle. We'll see how it plays out?

Edit: Add to that deadline purchases usually don't see teams giving up their best play off ready asset's. Its hard to project teams not being more willing to give us what we want in summer; as DeNiro suggested while licking the wounds of play off disapointment an re-arming themselves for a better fortune... Similarly, there will also be other teams looking to offload cap; the veteran we're looking for in the equation could come directly or not...

He could, if squeezed, do exactly as you've suggested. I wonder how likely it would be, though. His mantra has been to ice the team that has the best chance to win, and while I believe having two star goaltenders does move toward that end, does sacrificing experienced skaters for youthful ones do more to offset the star goalie tandem than it does to compliment them? It would be an interesting move, but a move that would shift the speculation from goalie controversy to rebuild controversy.
Conventional wisdom says one of them will be traded, and now his comments about this summer being the time to make a move all but put any speculation to rest.


Edited by Canuck Surfer, 12 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

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#2655 CrippledCanuck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:01 PM

dble post

Edited by CrippledCanuck, 12 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

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#2656 The Bookie

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

Is it wrong of me that because we haven't seen Smashian Kassian post in this thread for over 12 hrs I want to send someone to his house to make sure he's not dead?
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#2657 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

^^

hahah
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#2658 elvis15

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:53 PM

Is it wrong of me that because we haven't seen Smashian Kassian post in this thread for over 12 hrs I want to send someone to his house to make sure he's not dead?

Even posters better than us have taken at least a break from the mental beating that this thread can be at times. Perhaps Smashian is doing that, or more likely, he just is busy to where he can't check the forum incessantly.
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#2659 Italia2006

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:12 PM

I'd like to know if the Canuck's have any scouts at the Washington vs Florida game. Lots of offence in that game so far or should I say bad goaltending?

How much longer can Steve Yzerman go on with Lindback? 3-0 so far to a team that killed by the Leafs a few days ago. This looks like it's going to be the Lightnings 5th loss in a row. Yikes!

Edited by Italia2006, 12 February 2013 - 08:11 PM.

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#2660 Maniwaki Canuck

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:27 PM

Interesting scenario, but not too likely in my opinion. It means getting rid of Ballard, and letting Higgins, Raymond, Alberts and Malhotra walk when their contracts expire. While the latter two almost certainly will be out of the picture, I'm pretty sure that they'll keep at least two of Ballard, Higgins and Raymond. Depth matters, and has been a big part of our strength. Of course it's nice to have it in goal too, but we can get picks and prospects by moving Luongo or Schneider, compared to nothing by letting UFAs walk. With so many teams having to dump salary to make next year's cap, it isn't going to be business as usual at the trading deadline or draft this year. Hope we don't get burned by waiting too long.

Gillis can go over the cap by as much as 10% during the offseason and if there are still no takers, Gillis could run with a major youth movement if he got cap squeezed.

	  
D. SEDIN  $6,100,000.00   H. SEDIN  $6,100,000.00   Z. KASSIAN  $870,000.00
N. JENSEN  $895,000.00   R. KESLER  $5,000,000.00   A. BURROWS  $4,500,000.00
D. BOOTH  $4,250,000.00   J. SCHROEDER  $900,000.00   J. HANSEN  $1,350,000.00
A. VOLPATTI  $700,000.00   M. LAPIERRE  $1,000,000.00   D. WEISE  $700,000.00
   #13 FWD  $550,000.00  
	  
LW TOTAL:  $11,945,000.00   C TOTAL:  $13,550,000.00   RW TOTAL:  $7,420,000.00
	  
D. HAMHUIS  $4,500,000.00	  K. BIEKSA  $4,600,000.00
A. EDLER  $5,000,000.00	  J. GARRISON  $4,600,000.00
P. ANDERSSON  $660,000.00	  C. TANEV  $1,250,000.00
#7 D  $700,000.00	  #8 D  $700,000.00
	  
LD TOTAL:  $10,860,000.00	  RD TOTAL:  $11,150,000.00
	  
   C. SCHNEIDER  $4,000,000.00  
   R. LUONGO  $5,333,333.00  
	  
   G TOTAL:  $9,333,333.00  
	  
TOTAL CAP HIT:  $64,258,333.00   SALARY CAP:  $64,300,000.00   CAP SPACE:  $41,667.00
Andersson has $210,000 in ELC bonuses on top of $660k, but there is the bonus cushion provision. Now, whether or not Luongo & Schneider could coexist for yet another year without causing lockeroom issues is a big question mark and something I can't see flying.


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#2661 Millerdraft

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

He could, if squeezed, do exactly as you've suggested. I wonder how likely it would be, though.

Interesting scenario, but not too likely in my opinion.


I never suggested it was likely, I just used that as an example of how Gillis & Aqullini would avoid being "forced" to eat a Luongo buyout. No one will be buying out Luongo for at least another six years, if at all (especially after seeing the Islanders' move for TT), imo.

Edited by Millerdraft, 12 February 2013 - 07:36 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#2662 Italia2006

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:48 PM

I'm shocked to have found out the team with the worst goals against is the Sabres. 46 goals against. Wow!
After tonight the Capitals could be tied with them.

Edited by Italia2006, 12 February 2013 - 07:50 PM.

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#2663 Millerdraft

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

I'm shocked to have found out the team with the worst goals against is the Sabres. 46 goals against. Wow!
After tonight the Capitals could be tied with them.

You really shouldn't be that shocked if you look at their centres. Ennis? Hodgson? Talk about nightmare matchups against centres like Malkin, Crosby, Giroux, Lecavalier, Stamkos, Bergeron, Krejci, B. Richards, E. Staal, J. Staal etc etc.

On top of that they have an over the hill Regher and four offensive defencemen (Myers, Ehrhoff, Leopold, Sulzer). Sekera is the only guy that can play a reliable two-way game. Miller has been left out to dry all year.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#2664 Italia2006

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:09 PM

You really shouldn't be that shocked if you look at their centres. Ennis? Hodgson? Talk about nightmare matchups against centres like Malkin, Crosby, Giroux, Lecavalier, Stamkos, Bergeron, Krejci, B. Richards, E. Staal, J. Staal etc etc.

On top of that they have an over the hill Regher and four offensive defencemen (Myers, Ehrhoff, Leopold, Sulzer). Sekera is the only guy that can play a reliable two-way game. Miller has been left out to dry all year.


Don't they have one of the best goalies in the nhl and isn't ott a defensive centre?
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#2665 Italia2006

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

11 goals scored tonight between the Panthers and Capitals.
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#2666 Yotes

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

surprised gradin didnt tell out gm to draft marcus johannson he was picked after schroeder

also, ryan o reilly was drafted after shredder. nevere knew this so just thought i would say that, im sure some of you knew this already though
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#2667 Yotes

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

you look at o reillys stats, look identical to gaunce, and with his size im surprised we didnt take a chance on him drafting #22 overall, guess MG thought shredder was gonna be a st. louis type player or something
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#2668 DeNiro

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:58 PM

Gradin was apparently pushing Gillis to take Rodin in the first round, but Gillis couldn't pass on Schroeder because he was originally projected as a top 10-15 pick.

Gradin ended up getting Rodin in the second round anyways. And so far that pick isn't looking as promising as I once thought.
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#2669 Yotes

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

ya he sounded like he was gonna turn into something special.


also just noticed, brouwer drafted 7th round. i mean a whl guy with size 49 pts in 72gp. We dont take a flyer on someone with his size that late? instead in round 4 we take Andrew Sarauer, 5th round mike brown, 6th round Julien Ellis. Gee those guys sure turned into something, wish we never traded brown, but the other two lol great drafting i tell ya. The late rounds is where you have to find a gem if ur lucky like detroit or someone who can pan out like brouwer. instead we draft duds later on.

I truly feel our scouting staff needs to be overhauled

why did we use to have 9 rounds and now only 7 for drafting?
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#2670 canuckfan85

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:59 PM

ya he sounded like he was gonna turn into something special.


also just noticed, brouwer drafted 7th round. i mean a whl guy with size 49 pts in 72gp. We dont take a flyer on someone with his size that late? instead in round 4 we take Andrew Sarauer, 5th round mike brown, 6th round Julien Ellis. Gee those guys sure turned into something, wish we never traded brown, but the other two lol great drafting i tell ya. The late rounds is where you have to find a gem if ur lucky like detroit or someone who can pan out like brouwer. instead we draft duds later on.

I truly feel our scouting staff needs to be overhauled

why did we use to have 9 rounds and now only 7 for drafting?


that's Nonis for you
that guy's drafting was worse than Gillis
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