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Fox News Host Claims only "Corrupt Scientists" Believe in Climate Change


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#31 WiDeN

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

I have posted this a few times in other threads. I think it deserves a repost in this thread. Here is Creationist Scientist and US Congressman Paul Broun (who was on the Science Committee):

http://youtu.be/ZBy3MbP4WDo

He isn't much worse than ex-chairman of the science committee Ralph Hall who said "we can't control what God controls".

Holy crap. I am so glad not to be American. Religious people are so easily manipulated as a crowd to do what ever they are told (vote) in the name of god. It's a disgusting abuse of a podium that preys on people's beliefs. He didn't say anything about what his policies are other than that they are Christian. What ever that means.
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#32 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:58 PM

You do know about the rape quote by what's his republican face, right? He wasn't being sarcastic.


Lol you mean Todd Akin...yes I remember that well. He was not re-elected...and then to make things even more delicious, he was unseated by a woman. B)
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#33 Heretic

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

Holy crap. I am so glad not to be American. Religious people are so easily manipulated as a crowd to do what ever they are told (vote) in the name of god. It's a disgusting abuse of a podium that preys on people's beliefs. He didn't say anything about what his policies are other than that they are Christian. What ever that means.


There you go with absolutes again. :emot-parrot:
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#34 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

Everyone continues to argue about the cause but spend no time talking about how we are to adapt to the situation, man-made or not, if we are going to survive other than in small pockets.

If it's a natural occurrence, check out what happened last time. Are we ready for that?

Whether it's man-made or not may be the least important issue of the two if this speeds up much at all.

Spend time arguing over social politics while the enemy is at the gates. :picard:

Edited by theminister, 24 January 2013 - 01:26 PM.

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#35 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

Everyone continues to argue about the cause but spend no time talking about how we are to adapt to the situation, man-made or not, if we are going to survive other than in small pockets.

If it's a natural occurrence, check out what happened last time. Are we ready for that?

Whether it's man-made or not maybe the least important issue of the two if this speeds up much at all.

Spend time arguing over social politics while the enemy is at the gates.


Please do tell me how in the world we can possibly learn how to adapt to the situation when A: The United States is BROKE, and B: 30% of the population, the voting public doesn't even acknowledge that the world is warming to begin with? On top of that, only 50% of those that DO acknowledge it are too stubborn to admit it's partially our fault? I'd love for more money to be devoted to solving this issue, unfortunately, the US government is too preoccupied with crucifying Hillary Clinton and making sure no one takes away their GUNS to give a crap about the environment.

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 24 January 2013 - 01:27 PM.

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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#36 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

Please do tell me how in the world we can possibly learn how to adapt to the situation when A: The United States is BROKE, and B: 30% of the population, the voting public doesn't even acknowledge that the world is warming to begin with? On top of that, only 50% of those that DO acknowledge it are too stubborn to admit it's partially our fault? I'd love for more money to be devoted to solving this issue, unfortunately, the US government is too preoccupied with crucifying Hillary Clinton and making sure no one takes away their GUNS to give a crap about the environment.


I think we start by raising the dialectic. The world doesn't need everyone to agree to come up with contingency plans. Personally, the US is not the be all, end all of the discussion. The stats you provide are completely US centric. Europe and Asia have some smart people too.

I think we start, as Canadians, studying how we can relocate, feed, house and water our citizens in smaller population centres away from the major cities. Designing modes of living, albeit more subsistence based, that are more adapted to a hostile environment should be our primary goal. This planning doesn't need to be expensive.

Edited by theminister, 24 January 2013 - 01:40 PM.

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#37 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

I think we start by raising the dialectic. The world doesn't need everyone to agree to come up with contingency plans. Personally, the US is not the be all, end all of the discussion. The stats you provide are completely US centric. Europe has some smart people too.


They are US centric because I live in the US and I know how big a pipe dream it would be to get Congress to go along with anything that involves doing something positive for the environment. They'd rather drill in Alaska, disturbing fragile ecosystems and displacing countless animal species than listen to anyone with any alternative energy source ideas. I'm certainly glad Europe does have smart people. We are going to need a bunch of them to balance out the lopsided ratio in this country, for sure.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#38 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

They are US centric because I live in the US and I know how big a pipe dream it would be to get Congress to go along with anything that involves doing something positive for the environment. They'd rather drill in Alaska, disturbing fragile ecosystems and displacing countless animal species than listen to anyone with any alternative energy source ideas. I'm certainly glad Europe does have smart people. We are going to need a bunch of them to balance out the lopsided ratio in this country, for sure.


I can understand why the fate of the US, and the public preparedness there, would be your major concern. As a Canadian it is less important to me other than how we cope with the US's lack of preparedness. I don't have a say in the operations of your country and if the populace doesn't want to make contingency plans in the face of worldwide scientific data there isn't much we can do about it.

Mainly though, i don't look for the answers from government. I look to the ingenuity and adaptability of the human race. It's the only thing that got us through before and probably will be again.

Edited by theminister, 24 January 2013 - 01:46 PM.

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#39 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

I can understand why the fate of the US, and the public preparedness there, would be your major concern. As a Canadian it is less important to me other than how we cope with the US's lack of preparedness. I don't have a say in the operations of your country and if the populace doesn't want to make contingency plans in the face of worldwide scientific data there isn't much we can do about it.

Mainly though, i don't look for the answers from government. I look to the ingenuity and adaptability of the human race. It's the only thing that got us through before and probably will be again.


Well yeah and that's the problem man...it isn't the populace that doesn't want to make contingency plans...it's the government and all their red herring nonsense like gun control and whatever else they can put forth to try and distract us from the real issues, like the energy crisis, etc. They don't want to spend money on energy solutions...oh no...they'd rather keep us dependent on foreign oil so they can keep getting paid. I ****ing HATE this country's government, man. Both parties. Everyone is so damn slimy it's disgusting.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#40 WiDeN

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

There you go with absolutes again. :emot-parrot:

You're trying a little hard now.

Look at voting demographics and tell me I'm wrong.
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#41 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

Well yeah and that's the problem man...it isn't the populace that doesn't want to make contingency plans...it's the government and all their red herring nonsense like gun control and whatever else they can put forth to try and distract us from the real issues, like the energy crisis, etc. They don't want to spend money on energy solutions...oh no...they'd rather keep us dependent on foreign oil so they can keep getting paid. I ****ing HATE this country's government, man. Both parties. Everyone is so damn slimy it's disgusting.


Right. Agreed.

So, what to do? Throw our hands up and do nothing but get on the treadmill they provide for us?

Or do the citizens start taking the initiative based on their expectation of the potential results of global warming? Do they give up their six figure salary to move to a smaller community and put their money where their mouth is?

We can continue to believe in the myth of exponential growth to our peril. It's a personal choice.
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#42 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:07 PM

Right. Agreed.

So, what to do? Throw our hands up and do nothing but get on the treadmill they provide for us?

Or do the citizens start taking the initiative based on their expectation of the potential results of global warming? Do they give up their six figure salary to move to a smaller community and put their money where their mouth is?

We can continue to believe in the myth of exponential growth to our peril. It's a personal choice.


We'd first have to educate a good number of them on global warming and show them exactly what we are potentially dealing with here...however...we'd have to do it in a way that the average American would get the gist of it...you know...dumb it down...make it simple as possible, but no simpler...Sadly I think the vast majority are going to choose option A....just because it's the easiest solution...to do nothing.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#43 Armada

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

First of all...you don't "believe" in climate change, you observe it. It's real, it's taking place, and no matter how much Fox News kicks and screams, some day EVERYONE is going to come to the stark realization that humans are destroying this planet's ecosystem. Stupidity is what's wrong with America, not the freedom of speech to debate what they believe in. Thanks for missing the point.


So you're a corrupt scientist?
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#44 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

So you're a corrupt scientist?


lol. I'm sure Mr Kilmeade would call me a "corrupt scientist", yes.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#45 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

We'd first have to educate a good number of them on global warming and show them exactly what we are potentially dealing with here...however...we'd have to do it in a way that the average American would get the gist of it...you know...dumb it down...make it simple as possible, but no simpler...Sadly I think the vast majority are going to choose option A....just because it's the easiest solution...to do nothing.


I can only speak for my peer group here in BC but many are becoming more educated about tools that are important to survival that were never taught to us, like craft making, nutrition and food production. This is being done on a grassroots level with zero help from our governments. I'm not sure where in the US you are but I would recommend you find like minded people to help share info with and start making your own plans. Emergency preparedness is, I'll say it again, a personal choice.

So I guess the next question is, what are you doing to prepare?
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#46 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

I can only speak for my peer group here in BC but many are becoming more educated about tools that are important to survival that were never taught to us, like craft making, nutrition and food production. This is being done on a grassroots level with zero help from our governments. I'm not sure where in the US you are but I would recommend you find like minded people to help share info with and start making your own plans. Emergency preparedness is, I'll say it again, a personal choice.

So I guess the next question is, what are you doing to prepare?


Ever watch the Andy Griffith Show? I live in a small town about an hour away from "Mayberry" which was actually Mount Airy in NC. Like-minded people around here would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#47 MadMonk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

Everyone continues to argue about the cause but spend no time talking about how we are to adapt to the situation, man-made or not, if we are going to survive other than in small pockets.

If it's a natural occurrence, check out what happened last time. Are we ready for that?

Whether it's man-made or not may be the least important issue of the two if this speeds up much at all.


The cause is very much relevant, because you can't deal with the problem effectively unless you know what's causing it.

If it were due to say the sun increasing in brightness, to mitigate it you can only rely on adaptation and geo-engineering, which has its cost and problems. Furthermore you don't know how quickly you'll have to implement these changes, because the sun is unpredictable given our current understanding. How do you prepare for the unknown?

Since we know almost certainly it is due to human emissions, we have additional tools such as carbon sequestration or transitioning away from a carbon based economy. More importantly, we can give reasonable estimations how quickly and how much will it warm, which is very important information when it comes to cost benefit analysis.

The analogy is that you can't treat a patient unless you know what the problem is. You can't fix a company if you don't know why it is losing money.
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#48 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

Ever watch the Andy Griffith Show? I live in a small town about an hour away from "Mayberry" which was actually Mount Airy in NC. Like-minded people around here would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.


I'm not familiar with it but a quick look at Surry County shows me that you aren't in a particularly bad place, as far as the East goes. There is water, parkland and farm land around. It could be possible to make a good existence there assuming you aren't overrun. I am guessing that a couple of acres in western Virginia or eastern Kentucky isn't very expensive right now, correct? I'd consider buying there.

If you legitimately believe that climate change is real and will have a major effect in your lifetime then I suggest you move. The only other alternative is to try and educate your community (I know, I know), or find a new community.

Edited by theminister, 24 January 2013 - 02:50 PM.

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#49 Heretic

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:40 PM

I can only speak for my peer group here in BC but many are becoming more educated about tools that are important to survival that were never taught to us, like craft making, nutrition and food production. This is being done on a grassroots level with zero help from our governments. I'm not sure where in the US you are but I would recommend you find like minded people to help share info with and start making your own plans. Emergency preparedness is, I'll say it again, a personal choice.

So I guess the next question is, what are you doing to prepare?


Great suggestion.

Myself, I bought a 2.5 acres small hobby farm and will be fairly self sufficient as far as the following items go: fruit, vegetables, eggs and chicken.
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#50 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:44 PM

The cause is very much relevant, because you can't deal with the problem effectively unless you know what's causing it.

If it were due to say the sun increasing in brightness, to mitigate it you can only rely on adaptation and geo-engineering, which has its cost and problems. Furthermore you don't know how quickly you'll have to implement these changes, because the sun is unpredictable given our current understanding. How do you prepare for the unknown?

Since we know almost certainly it is due to human emissions, we have additional tools such as carbon sequestration or transitioning away from a carbon based economy. More importantly, we can give reasonable estimations how quickly and how much will it warm, which is very important information when it comes to cost benefit analysis.

The analogy is that you can't treat a patient unless you know what the problem is. You can't fix a company if you don't know why it is losing money.


Why is that? If you can anticipate the effects, and have no bearing on the causes or antidotes, then you can make contingency plans. The analogy doesn't really work being that you can, on a personal level, make corollary plans that cover both root causes.

You may not know the disease, and you may not know how to treat it, but you can make sure your nutrition and health is the best you can make it, and that you are responding to the symptoms to lessen their effect. Also you can make sure your family is looked after your passing, your remains are dealt with accordingly and that you leave them with some equity to survive after your passing. These are all reasonable actions and are akin to what I am advocating in dealing with the micro rather than the macro. I am not talking about a global solution to the cause, I am talking about making it through tomorrow.

A government may need to know to enact major works but a person does not to cover their butts.
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#51 Perfect From Now On

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:55 PM

Everyone continues to argue about the cause but spend no time talking about how we are to adapt to the situation, man-made or not, if we are going to survive other than in small pockets.

If it's a natural occurrence, check out what happened last time. Are we ready for that?

Whether it's man-made or not may be the least important issue of the two if this speeds up much at all.

Spend time arguing over social politics while the enemy is at the gates. :picard:


This is an excellent point that many people seem to ignore.

As the article in the OP states, more than 95% of climate scientists agree that climate change is occurring, and within this group there is of course variation on opinions regarding the contribution humans are making to this process. However regardless of what you believe the causes to be, there are likely going to be some extreme changes to the earth's climate within the next century that could have immense effects on humanity if we cannot find a way to adapt to these changes.

One major effect climate change will likely have on the earth is water availability, with many factors contributing to the changes in water availability. First of all almost every climate model agrees that there will be changes in precipitation patterns (though they vary in their prediction of direction and degree), these changes include geographic changes, for example some areas becoming more arid while others see an increase in precipitation, as as well as the degree of change and the temporal changes (which is important in hydro electricity production).

Furthermore a warming climate will mean further retreat and in many cases loss of glaciers, which provide a large portion of water flow in rivers around the world.

Finally many climatologists argue that another important facet of climate change will be the increase in extreme climate events, which may result in a larger portion of annual precipitation occurring in a few large events throughout the year, rather than a steadier pattern. This is important, because if this is indeed the case, a lot of the water will be lost in runoff before it can be used by humans for consumption, agriculture etc.


On the topic of glacier run off and it's importance in water availability, there is an excellent printed in Nature, by T. P. Barnett et al. that outlines the importance of glaciers in providing drinking water, as well as the potential effects that climate change will have. The article covers a couple of major glacial areas around the world that provide drinking water for an immense proportion of the world's population.



Abstract

All currently available climate models predict a near-surface warming trend under the influence of rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. In addition to the direct effects on climate—for example, on the frequency of heatwaves—this increase in surface temperatures has important consequences for the hydrological cycle, particularly in regions where water supply is currently dominated by melting snow or ice. In a warmer world, less winter precipitation falls as snow and the melting of winter snow occurs earlier in spring. Even without any changes in precipitation intensity, both of these effects lead to a shift in peak river runoff to winter and early spring, away from summer and autumn when demand is highest. Where storage capacities are not sufficient, much of the winter runoff will immediately be lost to the oceans. With more than one-sixth of the Earth’s population supply, the consequences of these hydrological changes for already diagnosed in some regions—are likely to be severe.


Barnett, T. P., Adam, J. C., & Lettenmaier, D. P. (2005). Potential Impacts of a Warming Climate on Water Availability in Snow-Dominated Regions. Nature, 438(17), pages.303-309 doi:10.1038/nature04141


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Edited by Audiophile, 24 January 2013 - 03:09 PM.

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#52 theminister

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:59 PM

Great suggestion.

Myself, I bought a 2.5 acres small hobby farm and will be fairly self sufficient as far as the following items go: fruit, vegetables, eggs and chicken.


Wells and cisterns, my man, Wells and cisterns.
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#53 Heretic

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:06 PM

Wells and cisterns, my man, Wells and cisterns.

Didn't think of that - must be a well somewhere on/near the property - I'll talk to my neighbour (who used to own this piece) as my house was built in 1930. We're on township water - but there must have been a well here when this place was first built.
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#54 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

This is whats right about America. People have freedom of speech to debate what they beleive in.


Yep, people have the right to express their ignorance and stupity.

Australia adds new colours to the temperature chart


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Climate change produced a striking new image this week: Australia’s Bureau of Meteorology added two new colours to their temperature charts, as the top end didn’t go high enough any more. The upper end of the chart now accounts for temperatures up to 54 degrees C.
The chart previously stopped at 50C, although the temperature has gone above that before. The new colours have been added in anticipation that temperatures will go over 50C again, and they were expected to in the current heatwave. Adding new colours to charts is largely symbolic, but it demonstrates the changing range of temperatures we can expect. Those purples may be called upon before the week is out, and Australia did set a new record average this week at 40.33C on Monday.
The temperature has never gone that high in Britain, ever, so the idea of 50 degree heat is hard to imagine, but other countries may need to re-draw their temperature charts eventually too. As David Jones of the Bureau of Meterology says, “everything that happens in the climate system now is taking place on a planet which is a degree hotter than it used to be.”

Edited by The Ratiocinator, 24 January 2013 - 03:13 PM.

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That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#55 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

I think we start by raising the dialectic. The world doesn't need everyone to agree to come up with contingency plans. Personally, the US is not the be all, end all of the discussion. The stats you provide are completely US centric. Europe and Asia have some smart people too.

I think we start, as Canadians, studying how we can relocate, feed, house and water our citizens in smaller population centres away from the major cities. Designing modes of living, albeit more subsistence based, that are more adapted to a hostile environment should be our primary goal. This planning doesn't need to be expensive.


Great post brother :)
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#56 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:20 PM

Oddly enough these corrupt scientists also advocate for evolution over creation in schools!
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#57 Aladeen

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

Climate change is a naturally reoccurring phenomenon.
Mankind isn't the cause of it, though he is definitely helping it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!! Yah naturally occuring over millenia not decades.
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#58 MadMonk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:37 PM

Why is that? If you can anticipate the effects, and have no bearing on the causes or antidotes, then you can make contingency plans. The analogy doesn't really work being that you can, on a personal level, make corollary plans that cover both root causes.


Well if you are talking about general things such as conserving energy or reducing environmental foot print then yes, the cause probably irrelevant.

But if you talking about making plans to deal with the specifics of a warming world, then how can you anticipate the effects if you don't know what the cause is?

Suppose when you build you house you want to design it to protect yourself from changes in precipitation. How do you know if it's going to be dryer, wetter, more frequent droughts or more frequent storms? Do you protect yourself against all four possibilities?

Even if you know for sure X will happen, you won't know how quickly the change will occur without knowing the cause. It may make sense to drop $10,000 to deal with X if you know it will happen within the next decade, but will be senseless if it doesn't happen until 50 years later (tech is likely cheaper and better)

More crucially, to deal with the effects of anthropogenic global warming effectively, there has to be systematic changes. Government cannot do anything unless the general population understands the cause.
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#59 Heretic

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!!! Yah naturally occuring over millenia not decades.



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McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#60 WiDeN

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

I, personally, would be heading north. Possibly towards the coast.

Food source, fresh water, shelter, and seclusion are the things I would look for.

I think typical agriculture would be difficult to depend on, so wild meat and wild plants would be best.

Fish is probably the easiest meat to get without a rifle, and whether I had one or not ammo would be limited, so it would be only used out of necessity.

I think the key would be to live as close to how the natives lived before we got here, rather than trying to lean on modern inventions and stocks.
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V a n c o u v e r C a n u c k s

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