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Jordan Schroeder > Cody Hodgson. The truth!


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#91 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

Again.bashing Hodgson to fill your misguided soul is just sad.Stating that a player wants out in every second post without a shred of supporting evidence is ignorant.
Hodgson never worked hard and some mysterious skater potted all his goals for him.Yeah.
I am sure Schroeder would like to play for the Wild and Kes would like to play for the Red Wings or whomever was his childhood favourite.Get a clue,bud and quit bashing and trolling.


My point being the 3C role was Cody's to lose.

Do you honestly think there was anyway he would not have started the season in that role? Answer me that?

He played well enough in the pre-season to merrit it, but since he had wanted out we needed to get him into the NHL to see what he could do, and prove that he could play, so we could get something in return, rather than trading him as an unproven player for nothing and having the deal blow up in our face.

Does that not make sense to you? Cody played well enough in the pre-season to justify him getting the 3C spot and the shot at the 2nd line, but there was 0 chance he wouldn't have gotten it either way.
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#92 stonecoldstevebernier

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

I think it is more of a future thing.

To me the comparison is where Schroeder is now vs where Cody was at this point in the season last year.

Only been 2 games, but those 2 games have been more telling than just saying "it's been 2 games" as AV has already shown the confidence in JS to give him the most Dzone starts of any center and was rewarded with JS going 11 for 19 in the dot overall.

I think Schroeder is a bit better overall in that respect. (as I have maintained after watching the Wolves during the lockout that he was better prior to his debut than Cody was in last years pre-season) And if Schroeder continues to grow this year and get better as the year goes along like Cody did with us last season, then I don't see why he can't be at the same point Cody is at now, next season.


Well, the vast majority of the people posting here have never seen Schroeder play (save for preseason and the odd Wolves game on TV) until the past two games, and its a bit ridiculous for them to be proclaiming that he's a bonafide NHLer. It's way too early to make that assessment - and really, just because AV shows confidence in him doesn't account for much... when Hodgson was here, he was stuck behind Henrik and Kesler and there was no opportunity for him to play big minutes. Schroeder's only getting those minutes because Kesler's out (and Malhotra wasn't playing yesterday either).

So again, its way too early to say "Schroeder's better than _____" because he's proven nothing yet. He could be better later on, but we don't know yet.

What's even more hilarious is that if he goes on a cold streak at some point, the same people saying he's amazing now will be bashing him and calling for him to be sent back down.
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#93 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

I highly doubt it. With Hank and Kesler down the middle, and with Gaunce looking like one hell of a 2 way prospect, its going to take a miracle for Schroeder to cement himself on this team. Id bet my house that Schroeder gets dealt for a winger sometime within the next year or so.

Also, I like Schroeder, but Cody was just on another level.


You're on.
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#94 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:26 PM

Well, the vast majority of the people posting here have never seen Schroeder play (save for preseason and the odd Wolves game on TV) until the past two games, and its a bit ridiculous for them to be proclaiming that he's a bonafide NHLer. It's way too early to make that assessment - and really, just because AV shows confidence in him doesn't account for much... when Hodgson was here, he was stuck behind Henrik and Kesler and there was no opportunity for him to play big minutes. Schroeder's only getting those minutes because Kesler's out (and Malhotra wasn't playing yesterday either).

So again, its way too early to say "Schroeder's better than _____" because he's proven nothing yet. He could be better later on, but we don't know yet.

What's even more hilarious is that if he goes on a cold streak at some point, the same people saying he's amazing now will be bashing him and calling for him to be sent back down.


I agree, most people don't know what is going on, and there will be many jumping off the bandwagon.

Personally as someone who watched most of the Wolves games, I wasn't surprised, I knew Schroeder was capable of jumping in.

You made a good point on JS, with Kesler out, but I don't think Cody was given that many Dzone faceoff opportunites when he was on the 2nd line. But still it does show AV has confidence in him as there are other options that could have been used.

Again I think the comparison that has to be made is Cody last year at this point, vs Schroeder this year at this point, and that comparison doesn't greatly favor Cody at all, probably favors JS if anything.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 26 January 2013 - 06:27 PM.

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#95 disisdayear

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

Let me preface my post by stating that I won't be contributing to the Schroeder vs. Hodgson debate. My apologies for that.

For all of the old-timers on the board like myself, does Schneider remind you of Doug Smail, who used to play for the Winnipeg Jets from 1980 to 1990? Both are small in stature (Schroeder 5'8"/Smail 5'9"; both weighing 175 lbs.), but bodies built for hockey (i.e., strong quads, thick chest, thick arms, etc.); very good college/amateur careers; NHL speed; very good hockey skills.

The stat line on Doug Smail's NHL career totals for regular season is:

GP: 845; G: 210; A: 249; TP: 459; PIM: 602; +/-: -35 (his year to year can be found on this link: http://www.hockeydb....ay.php?pid=5014)

Aside from the +/- (which were adversely affected by bad Winnipeg Jets and Ottawa Senators teams he played on in 1980-81 and '92-'93 respectively), if Schroeder could post similar career numbers, I would be pretty damn happy.

For those who will suggest that we're comparing players from different eras, the point is taken...my point is that they are similar players, and Smail, once given his shot, had a decent NHL career.

Edited by disisdayear, 26 January 2013 - 06:46 PM.

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#96 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

Let me preface my post by stating that I won't be contributing to the Schroeder vs. Hodgson debate. My apologies for that.

For all of the old-timers on the board like myself, does Schneider remind you of Doug Smail, who used to play for the Winnipeg Jets from 1980 to 1990? Both are small in stature (Schroeder 5'8"/Smail 5'9"; both weighing 175 lbs.), but bodies built for hockey (i.e., strong quads, thick chest, thick arms, etc.); very good college/amateur careers; NHL speed; very good hockey skills.

The stat line on Doug Smail's NHL career totals for regular season is:

GP: 845; G: 210; A: 249; TP: 459; PIM: 602; +/-: -35 (his year to year can be found on this link: http://www.hockeydb....ay.php?pid=5014)

Aside from the +/- (which were adversely affected by bad Winnipeg Jets and Ottawa Senators teams he played on in 1980-81 and '92-'93 respectively), if Schroeder could post similar career numbers, I would be pretty damn happy.

For those who will suggest that we're comparing players from different eras, the point is taken...my point is that they are similar players, and Smail, once given his shot, had a decent NHL career.


A more recent comparsion would be Martin St Louis like Jordon Martin is 5'8/5'9 but very smart and good hockey sense......early on he was not amazing (Martin St Louis) but eventually he starts to put up the numbers.......if he can be our version of Martin St Louis that would be great...we will see

Edited by canuck_trevor16, 26 January 2013 - 06:54 PM.

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#97 kacvan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

I can see Schroeder being the next Brendan Morrison for the Canucks with Kassian and the Canucks need is a skilled sniper and we have the WCE 2.0.
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#98 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:58 PM

I can see Schroeder being the next Brendan Morrison for the Canucks with Kassian and the Canucks need is a skilled sniper and we have the WCE 2.0.


jensen..............

Jensen Schroeder Kassasin
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#99 higgyfan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

Since when does AHL preformence hold the merrit for who gets 1st line NHL opportunites?

If so Keith Acouin would have been Toronto's 1st line center long ago.

Kassian earned his 1st line role by playing well when he was given the opportunity.

did Cody earn his 1st line role? He was placed on that line from the start for 2 Reasons.

1) They have no depth, they had no one else aside from Ennis
2) They didn't want to breakup Ennis and Stafford or else Ennis would have likely been given that shot 1st.

Not sure where you are going with this.


Hodson, Ennis, Grigorenko, Hetch, Ott and Ellis. You call that a lack of depth?
Check out what Buffalo fans are saying. Many of them don't even consider Ennis a natural C and want him shifted to the wing. The top line (with Hodgson) is their best line. So yeah
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#100 sedated

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:02 PM

Cody is just in a good spot between two good wingers. He will probably be removed from that spot when they find depth. Also, the only points he's gotten so far for the most part are shots going off his body, or bouncing in off him.

I really didn't mind Cody, but people hyped him way too much. That one slap shot against Boston, while sexy, certainly, made far too many people overvalue him. Especially since for 20 games he basically did nothing, then he got traded, and it was shown he didn't want to be here in the first place. We'll see how he does in Buffalo, but considering who he's playing with, and the fact most of his points are just luck, I'd take Kassian. Kassian is with the twins, sure. But Hodgosn should be rolling in assists and points being a center.
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#101 Conscience

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

Yes that is not quality. Grigorenko was just drafted and Ott is a third liner, Hetch is not the same and Hodgson and Ennis are Second liners at best.
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#102 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

Hodson, Ennis, Grigorenko, Hetch, Ott and Ellis. You call that a lack of depth?
Check out what Buffalo fans are saying. Many of them don't even consider Ennis a natural C and want him shifted to the wing. The top line (with Hodgson) is their best line. So yeah


Which one of those players are proven top line centers? Only 2 of those players are proven as capable of being top 6 centers (Ennis and Hodgson) and Hodgson wasn't exactly proven heading into the year. Both are 2nd liners at best right now.

Having 2 small 2nd line centers, neither that have proven to be able to handle 1st line roles, flanked by a good 3rd liner, an aging bottom 6 forward at best and a rookie, isn't exactly "solid depth"

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 26 January 2013 - 07:08 PM.

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#103 Tearloch7

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

Rumors abound that Markham may get an NHL team .. how long before Cody's Daddy lobbies for Cody to be moved there so he can go back to sleeping in his "Captains Bed" in his very own little room .. :emot-parrot:
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#104 disisdayear

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:17 PM

A more recent comparsion would be Martin St Louis like Jordon Martin is 5'8/5'9 but very smart and good hockey sense......early on he was not amazing (Martin St Louis) but eventually he starts to put up the numbers.......if he can be our version of Martin St Louis that would be great...we will see


Trev16...I like your comparison, but if Schroeder turns out to be as good as Martin St. Louis, I, along with all Canucks fans will be over the moon. I would suggest that St. Louis, in his prime, was a superstar, so if we have a St. Louis in the making, in Jordan Schroeder, it will be outstanding.
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#105 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:26 PM

Cody is the #1C for Buffalo. So, yeah.


Maybe thats more a result of a lack of real offensive centers in their organization, so he kinda defaults to number 1? Have you seen the points he's been getting?

1. Bounces off his body for goals (2)
2. Pitty 3rd assists
3. Playing poorly defensively
4. Point total is being inflated by playing on the same line as a guy who has consistently sniped 40 goals a year without him and is on a tear.
5. Is Bozak and a number 1 there champ? Well he seems to be playing 1st on Toronto isn't he? Nice logic huh? same as yours. Should we trade kesler for Bozak since Kes is a number 2 and Bozak is a number 1? Lol...please..And don't argue because I am using YOUR logic..."he's playing number 1 so he is, is your logic"
6. Back to the Bozak example, as I assume you're going to argue CoHo's numbers aren't inflated, well Bozak's sure were playing with Kessel and Lupul so...hmmmm

Checkmate

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 26 January 2013 - 07:27 PM.

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#106 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

Trev16...I like your comparison, but if Schroeder turns out to be as good as Martin St. Louis, I, along with all Canucks fans will be over the moon. I would suggest that St. Louis, in his prime, was a superstar, so if we have a St. Louis in the making, in Jordan Schroeder, it will be outstanding.


I think if he turns into a cliff ronning we'd happy!
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#107 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

I think these might be some decent comparisons for Schroeder:

- Mike Cammalleri (Different style, but could have a similar career path)
- Danny Briere (SImilar in some aspects)

Then for Cody I think Chris Drury or Tim Connolly (when he was with Buffalo) are some decent comparisons (Minus the speed for both)

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 26 January 2013 - 07:31 PM.

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#108 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

Cody is just in a good spot between two good wingers. He will probably be removed from that spot when they find depth. Also, the only points he's gotten so far for the most part are shots going off his body, or bouncing in off him.

I really didn't mind Cody, but people hyped him way too much. That one slap shot against Boston, while sexy, certainly, made far too many people overvalue him. Especially since for 20 games he basically did nothing, then he got traded, and it was shown he didn't want to be here in the first place. We'll see how he does in Buffalo, but considering who he's playing with, and the fact most of his points are just luck, I'd take Kassian. Kassian is with the twins, sure. But Hodgosn should be rolling in assists and points being a center.


I really loved Cody when he was here and thought it was a bad move at the time but!

1. Kassian is going to be a stud if he wants to be and stays focussed. On the prior, given his effort/work ethic, maturity, I would say he wants it. On the second that is coaching, teammates helping him, and him working when things get tough.

I have all the confidence that he has all those things as well...a terrific trade for us, and time will prove it. I saw Neely play at the same age, and yes its waaay to early to talk Neely, but he has a higher ceiling, he is a better skater, just as big, can fight, perhaps not as great a sniper but still a good one and can still develop that further, and is a better passer. Can he dominate like Neely, well that's the big question because what separates avg/ good,/great in the NHL is consistency, the ability to improve, raise your game when it matters etc. Those intangibles are inside him, and only time will show us, but the ceiling, its higher than Neely's.

2. I think I over rated cody as you suggest. Everyone in Canada fell in love with this kid in the world Juniors, where he was Captain Canada, and legitimately deserved the mvp over Tavares. Then he falls to us and we are estactic...Well he has holes in his game. Defensively, and while his skating has improved, when you look at Schroder's ability to skate and stay in the play, create because of his speed, then watch CoHo as I have been you really see a BIG difference...that will hold Coho back from being an upper echelon player...he will be a good second liner and a contributor but I don't see him being a game changer.

Kassian has the potential to be a game changer...I like that deal....

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 26 January 2013 - 07:38 PM.

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#109 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

I really loved Cody when he was here and thought it was a bad move at the time but!

1. Kassian is going to be a stud if he wants to be and stays focussed. On the prior, given his effort/work ethic, maturity, I would say he wants it. On the second that is coaching, teammates helping him, and him working when things get tough.

I have all the confidence that he has all those things as well...a terrific trade for us, and time will prove it. I saw Neely play at the same age, and yes its waaay to early to talk Neely, but he has a higher ceiling, he is a better skater, just as big, can fight, perhaps not as great a sniper but still a good one and can still develop that further, and is a better passer. Can he dominate like Neely, well thats the big question because what separates avg, goog, great in the NHL is consistency and ability to get better, raise your game when it matters etc. Those intangibles are inside him and only time will show us, but ceiling, its higher.

2. I think I over rated cody as you suggest. Everyone in Canada fell in love with this kid in the world Juniors, where he was Captain Canada, and legitimately deserved the mvp over Tavares. Then he falls to us and we are estactic...Well he has holes in his game. Defensively, and while his skating has improved, when you look at Schroder's ability to skate and stay in the play, create because of his speed, then watch CoHo as I have been you really see a BIG difference...that will hold Coho back from being an upper echelon player...he will be a good second liner and a contributor but I don't see him being a game changer.

Kassian has the potential to be a game changer...I like that deal....


Agree with you here BTM.

Pretty much feel the same way on both accounts.

Was a huge Cody fan, but now that he is gone & I'm not blinded by the hype, it is easier to see that there are holes in his game that will prevent him from being an upper echelon player as you suggest. Still a good 2nd liner in my books though.

The more time that passes the more I like the Kassian deal, brings exactly what we are missing. Really adds alot to our team that we didn't have before with Cody.
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#110 higgyfan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

Maybe thats more a result of a lack of real offensive centers in their organization, so he kinda defaults to number 1? Have you seen the points he's been getting?

1. Bounces off his body for goals (2)
2. Pitty 3rd assists
3. Playing poorly defensively
4. Point total is being inflated by playing on the same line as a guy who has consistently sniped 40 goals a year without him and is on a tear.
5. Is Bozak and a number 1 there champ? Well he seems to be playing 1st on Toronto isn't he? Nice logic huh? same as yours. Should we trade kesler for Bozak since Kes is a number 2 and Bozak is a number 1? Lol...please..And don't argue because I am using YOUR logic..."he's playing number 1 so he is, is your logic"
6. Back to the Bozak example, as I assume you're going to argue CoHo's numbers aren't inflated, well Bozak's sure were playing with Kessel and Lupul so...hmmmm

Checkmate


With that kind of logic, Buffalo should have put Ott on the first line. You can hardly compare Tor depth to Buffalo.
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#111 leftcoast

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:47 PM

Having Kassian and Schroeder on this team > Hodgson and Schroeder... Debatable whether Kassian Hodgson or Kassian Schroeder is better though.
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#112 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

With that kind of logic, Buffalo should have put Ott on the first line. You can hardly compare Tor depth to Buffalo.


As crazy as it sounds, Toronto's is probably just as good if not better than Buffalos.

Bozak IMO is playing better than Cody is currently, and Kadri has been playing well too.

If Bozak was in the spot Cody is, he would be scoring just as much in not more, while playing better defensively.

Cody isn't a 1st liner.
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#113 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

With that kind of logic, Buffalo should have put Ott on the first line. You can hardly compare Tor depth to Buffalo.


You;re suggesting Buffalo has better depth than Toronto at Center? I'd say its about the same in terms of proven players, neither team has any...that's why they traded for CoHo and then drafted a big offensive center with their first pick a few months later there bud
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#114 CanuckinEdm

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:56 PM

I am not a fan of Cody, I used to be...but the more and more I learn about him. Hes lazy and from my friend who works closely with the Canucks (said he had a piss poor attitude and didnt fit well with the team-- I mean ordering milk at a bar?? Really are you 10?)

I dont know much about Schroeder yet, I have only seen him play twice now. I seen him in the camps in Penticton but that was slightly different.

I think the reason why Weise is on that line with Raymond, is they needed a big body to compensate for their size. *shrugs* Got any other ideas??

Or maybe he's a health nut and doesn't want to put poison in his body or a close friend/family member or himself has struggled with alcohol addiction. The whole milk thing is absolutely stupid and poeple take it as he wasn't a team player cause he ordered milk. None of the players have come out saying otherwise in fact they have said the complete opposite.
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#115 Canuck or Die

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:58 PM

Simply put, Shroeder has the potential of being our version of Martin St. Louis. He has shown great promise in the two games he's played. I hope Shroeder does well here.
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#116 Dasein

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

Put Schroeder between Pominville and Vanek he'll get better results.


But.. But... He wouldn't have been tall enough to have the puck deflect in off his head!

:bigblush:
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#117 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

Hodgson was my fav canuck at the time, and I was super pissed at the trade, but this is starting to get a little annoying...

I think long term the trade will most likely be equal with each players becoming 2nd liners at the worst.

Imo JS has looked better defensively and at faceoffs then Hodgson did in pretty much all of his games here.

Hodgson has a way better slap shot, and is better at making offense when he doesn't have to rush the puck.

JS is way better on the rush, something that fits with our team a lot better.

I see Hodgson as the more offensive player in his career but JS with a better two way game scoring a bit less then Hodgson.

I still think we haven't seen what JS can really do, I think he's just playing it as safe as he can and once the games go one he will get better and better.
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#118 frazzY

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

I will bet my car that tyler ennis is buffalos number one centre by seasons end. You coho lovers over hype him BIG TIME.
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#119 higgyfan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

You;re suggesting Buffalo has better depth than Toronto at Center? I'd say its about the same in terms of proven players, neither team has any...that's why they traded for CoHo and then drafted a big offensive center with their first pick a few months later there bud


Nope, I prefer Buff depth at C. I suppose 4 games in isn't very fair to judge these players. We'll see how things are at the end of the season. BTW, using condescending words like "Champ" and "Bud" don't make you sound intelligent; rather more like a jerk. Take it from someone that knows.
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#120 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

Hodgson was my fav canuck at the time, and I was super pissed at the trade, but this is starting to get a little annoying...

I think long term the trade will most likely be equal with each players becoming 2nd liners at the worst.

Imo JS has looked better defensively and at faceoffs then Hodgson did in pretty much all of his games here.

Hodgson has a way better slap shot, and is better at making offense when he doesn't have to rush the puck.

JS is way better on the rush, something that fits with our team a lot better.

I see Hodgson as the more offensive player in his career but JS with a better two way game scoring a bit less then Hodgson.

I still think we haven't seen what JS can really do, I think he's just playing it as safe as he can and once the games go one he will get better and better.


Pretty much my exact feeling.

Kassian and Cody will both be very good players, and both fit each team better moving forward. It is actually kind of interesting in that respect.

They needed a center and got Cody, while having Foligno to fill a similar role moving Forward that they hoped Zack would, then ditto here with Zack being a bigger need, and having Schroeder to play that similar role to Cody.

As far as a Cody/Schroeder comparison, Schroeder is better on the rush as you say, aswell as the skating and seems to be better on faceoffs/defensively. Cody does though have a defensive aspect to his game aswell, just doesn't have the mobility to go with it like JS does.

I think offensively both have there strong points, Cody has a better slapper, Schroeder has just as good if not better of a Wrister, Cody is better on the PP/controlled situations at setting up players and making plays, Schroeder is better at making quick, hard, accurate passes in an instant with little time to think about it.

Both bring alot.

I think all 3 players in question will be good 2nd liners, all who bring different aspects to the table in there roles. It's exciting to see from our perspective. Cody and Zack probably have a higher ceiling as it looks right now, but I wouldn't write off JS either, could see him as a bit of a late bloomer and becoming a Cammalleri/Briere type of player.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 26 January 2013 - 08:44 PM.

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