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Jordan Schroeder > Cody Hodgson. The truth!


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#181 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

There is no question that on the defensive side of the puck, Schroeder is more reliable. From his speed to his work ethic, Schroeder's tenacity to back check is what earns him points in the eyes of the Canucks management and coaching staff. This even lead to him getting an overtime shift in his first game as a Canuck.

Schroeder's developement in the AHL has been below expectations from a pure point production. The Wolves however, are not offensive juggernauts, especially under head coach Scott Arniel.

That said, the ceiling on Schroeder is still unknown. In his junior/univeristy career, he has shown the ability to put up above average points in a solid two-way game, playing with nobody.

Hodgson's junior career was pure offense. Cody was able to 92 Pts in 53 games with linemates, Evgeny Grachev(80pts) and Matt Duchene (79pts) in 2008-2009. He was CHL player of the year and played extremely well in the WJHC.

So how do you compare, let's take a look at the only even playing field.

2010-2011 Regular Season Stats:
CH: 52gp 17g 13a 30pts +8 (with Canucks 8gp 1g 1a 2pts)
JS: 61gp 10g 18a 28pts -7

2010-2011 Playoff Season Stats:
CH: 12gp 0g 1a 1pts
JS: 14gp 1g 5a 6pts

IMO, they are virtually the same player, the "offensive talent that CH possesses isn't far off what Schroeder can produce. Playing with Matt Duchene in Brampton was a clear advantage in the offensive development and reflects in his junior numbers. On the flip side, Schroeder is that much better defensively either, the minus number in the AHL shows me that Schroeder struggled to adjust to the speed and strength of professional hockey, even at the AHL level. He put up similar numbers to CH and did it one year younger.

All in all, neither player's base skill-set is far and away better than the other. With the exception of foot speed, advantage Schroeder.

We haven't even begun to discuss the attitudes and work ethic of each player. From the two games I've seen, I've seen JS work harder in battles along the boards, park himself in front of the net and retrieve loose pucks in the defensive zone, I never saw any of this with Cody.

Cody made himself expendable, and although the trade was a Win-Win for both teams, I think we won more, with Schroeder in the wings, Cody was expendable and Kassian has the POTENTIAL to be a dominant force for years to come, but that's another thread :)


I don't think we can neccisarily say that, as they also have Marcus Foligno waiting in the wings, but I think the trade, based on where our organization is compared to them, favors us at the moment, as Kassian and Schroeder don't have to be relied on like Foligno and Cody do, so when they play like they have it is a very pleasent surprise and really shows you how far along they are.

I think offensively JS and Cody are just as good, they just bring different things, Cody is better down low protecting the puck, stick handling down loe, exc. (which at this level is pretty much his bread and butter) he is better at setting up and making plays, Schroeder is better off the rush at making things happen, far more explosive and has more "game breaking offensive ability" as I would put it, passing ability is the same IMO, maybe a bit to JS advantage as he can anticipate and make passes quicker than Cody can.

Then shooting Cody has the better slap shot, where as I think Schroeder has the better wrist shot.

Schroeder was projected (around the draft) to be a 1st line scoring forward while bringing great defensive ability. And Cody was projected as a 1st line center aswell, both have had there detractors that appeared to have snubbed that potential, (Schroeder with bad 1st full year in the AHL, Cody with injury problems) although who knows, I would say that the injury troubles and now being relied on rather than learning like he would here won't help, where as Jordan learned alot from his bad year and is really starting to show that promise.

IMO they will both be good players, although I wouldn't say one will be signifcantly above the other at this point.

People are for some reason blinded by Cody Hodgson still without actually watching any of his games and just look purely at the stat line.

More to hockey than just stats...


Yeah he isn't having a great night defensively, lost a battle to Joel Ward which directly cost them a goal, then the one went off him.

Well Ovie just scored and he wasn't on, so atleast he is moving in the right direction. :P

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 27 January 2013 - 03:03 PM.

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#182 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

Coho -2 tonight, no points without Mr. Vanek...lol...as we said...
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#183 Watsuko

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

From todays game vs washington. -2 cody doing his part defensively


Cody Hodgson 0 0 0 -2 0 1 18:44 23 0 0 8 8

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#184 The Dark Knight

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:58 PM

Schroeder looks awesome so far. Looks more dynamic than hodgson in his game today
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#185 playboi19

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

Cody scored today on a deflection.....










Unfortunately it was on his own net.
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#186 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:13 PM

Schroeder looks awesome so far. Looks more dynamic than hodgson in his game today


Also 0/6 in faceoffs.
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#187 nuck nit

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

Also 0/6 in faceoffs.

Schroeder is 2 for 9 now (22%) whereas Hodgson was 50% against Ribeiro,Backstrom and Brouwer.
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#188 Gollumpus

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

Also 0/6 in faceoffs.


Yup, the kid didn't have a good game. Puts him at 45.7% for the three games he's played. Hopefully he'll put a bad game behind him and do better in the next.

regards,
G.
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#189 Millerdraft

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:55 AM

Also 0/6 in faceoffs.

Schroeder is 2 for 9 now (22%) whereas Hodgson was 50% against Ribeiro,Backstrom and Brouwer.

Neutral zone faceoffs are rathing meaningless. Often times centres purposely lose neutral zone faceoffs to give the opposition a false sense of ease to set them up for failure on a much more critical draw later on.

CoHo's Dzone draws through 1st 5gp: 13 for 40 good for a 32.5% winning percentage (ummm, YIKES)
CoHo's Ozone draws through 1st 5gp: 15 for 32 good for a 46.9% winning percentage (about what you'd expect from a sophomore)

JS's Dzone draws through 1st 3gp: 6 for 9 good for a 66% winning percentage (tremendously small sample size)
JS's Ozone draws through 1st 3gp: 7 for 18 good for a 38.9% winning percentage (about what you'd expect from a rookie)

If I were Ruff, I'd start looking elsewhere for Dzone faceoffs until CoHo starts owning Ott in practice.
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#190 Millerdraft

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:02 AM

Yup, the kid didn't have a good game. Puts him at 45.7% for the three games he's played. Hopefully he'll put a bad game behind him and do better in the next.

regards,
G.

San Jose is one of the best faceoff teams in the league, Schroeder's night in the dot was to be expected imo. Let's see how CoHo does vs Boston.

http://www.nhl.com/i...e=realTimeStats

Last year: http://www.nhl.com/i...e=realTimeStats
'10-'11: http://www.nhl.com/i...e=realTimeStats
'09-'10: http://www.nhl.com/i...e=realTimeStats
'08-'09: http://www.nhl.com/i...e=realTimeStats

First or 2nd overall five years running, atm.

Edited by Millerdraft, 28 January 2013 - 03:03 AM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#191 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:47 AM

Schroeder looks awesome so far. Looks more dynamic than hodgson in his game today


Schroeder definitely looking more dynamic that Cody.

I have been saying all along that the comparison that needs to be made is Jordan now vs Cody last season (Which is fair and pretty even comparison, might even favor JS at this point in the season)

But I have been thinking about it, and the fact that this is Jordan's 1st opportunity in the league. The real comparison that should be made is:

Jordan now vs Cody in 10/11

And there is really no comparison, first year Jordan blows first year Cody out of the water. So the conclusion I draw is that next season he will should be somewhere around where Cody was late last year/now, possibly even further along, which is a great thing for us.

Great to see Schroeder starting to turn heads around here and show some of the potential that had some people pegging him as a potential 1st liner around draft day.
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#192 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:33 AM

Smashian Kassian:

But I have been thinking about it, and the fact that this is Jordan's 1st opportunity in the league. The real comparison that should be made is:

Jordan now vs Cody in 10/11

Astute suggestion with 1 major flaw in your argument. Kesler wasn't injured in 10/11. So Schroeder is going to get a long look by the coaches and management. That alone is going to give him a better chance to succeed.

2013 Schroeder: GP 3, 1 assist
2010/11 Hodgson: GP 8, 1 goal and 1 assist

I wouldn't say Schroeder is blowing Hodgson out of the water with those stats. In fact I'd say they are playing at a similar level.

Hodgson is gone, and odds are he'll never be back in a Canuck uniform. Time to move on. Let's hope that Schroeder turns into a productive forward.
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#193 Patrick Kane

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:38 AM

Sorry but Hodgson was always touted to be better.

Schroeder is good though, but don't expect him to be better then Hodgson. If anything, hope Kassian can pan out.
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#194 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

Neutral zone faceoffs are rathing meaningless. Often times centres purposely lose neutral zone faceoffs to give the opposition a false sense of ease to set them up for failure on a much more critical draw later on.

CoHo's Dzone draws through 1st 5gp: 13 for 40 good for a 32.5% winning percentage (ummm, YIKES)
CoHo's Ozone draws through 1st 5gp: 15 for 32 good for a 46.9% winning percentage (about what you'd expect from a sophomore)

JS's Dzone draws through 1st 3gp: 6 for 9 good for a 66% winning percentage (tremendously small sample size)
JS's Ozone draws through 1st 3gp: 7 for 18 good for a 38.9% winning percentage (about what you'd expect from a rookie)

If I were Ruff, I'd start looking elsewhere for Dzone faceoffs until CoHo starts owning Ott in practice.


Said no NHL coach or NHL centerman ever.
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#195 The Dark Knight

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:17 PM

Schroeders compete level is simply way ahead of hodgson. Especially in the d zone where as hodgson looks down right lazy.

I've noticed Schroeder makes this quick break out passes too that are usually tape to tape with someone in stride while on transition
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#196 Millerdraft

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Said no NHL coach or NHL centerman ever.


Marty Reasoner, Rich Peverly, Ryan Kesler, Manny Malhotra, and Craig MacTavish have all admitted to doing this.

*What if you know you are going to lose a faceoff? A player might know that the opposition will get the puck first. He might even allow it to happen. In those cases he can instruct one of his wingers to anticipate this and jump to where the puck will be directed.

*There are mind games. A player might lose neutral-zone faceoffs on purpose with one move, setting the opposition up for a different move later.


Sometimes you can set guys with certain things you maybe do in the neutral zone where the draw isn’t so important where it leads to him being a little off-balance for a big draw, whether it’s in your end or their end,” Reasoner said.

http://www.ajc.com/n...-faceoff/nQZKw/

Edited by Millerdraft, 28 January 2013 - 12:41 PM.

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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#197 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

Marty Reasoner, Rich Peverly, Ryan Kesler, Manny Malhotra, and Craig MacTavish have all admitted to doing this.

http://www.ajc.com/n...-faceoff/nQZKw/


Well, that's one player quoted out of those mentioned. And he never specifically stated that he did precisely that. Losing face offs intentionally might also explain Reasoner's less than stellar NHL career. But lets assume he did/does lose face offs intentionally for the sake of argument. So you contend Schroeder, NHL rookie, marginal prospect was intentionally losing faceoffs because Reasoner stated that he intentionally did a few years ago?
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#198 Millerdraft

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

Well, that's one player quoted out of those mentioned. And he never specifically stated that he did precisely that. Losing face offs intentionally might also explain Reasoner's less than stellar NHL career. But lets assume he did/does lose face offs intentionally for the sake of argument. So you contend Schroeder, NHL rookie, marginal prospect was intentionally losing faceoffs because Reasoner stated that he intentionally did a few years ago?


I found you a quote that said precisely what I said happens:

“Sometimes you can set guys with certain things you maybe do in the neutral zone where the draw isn’t so important where it leads to him being a little off-balance for a big draw, whether it’s in your end or their end,” Reasoner said.


I'm not going to go find others that were likely radio/TV clips since I have watched/listened to/read tons of interviews over the past two decades. Obviously I don't remember exactly where I've heard each of them talking about the art of faceoffs but I definitely remember them talking about Nzone faceoff strategies and setting guys up was mentioned by each of them (in different terms). You can choose to believe it, or not, but I've at least backed it up w/ a quote so if you dismiss the notion entirely then you're simply in complete denial of fact.

What I'm saying is that neutral zone faceoffs are far less important than O/D zone faceoffs and that when a guy is lighting it up in the neutral zone but really struggling in the other two zones there are likely a few reasons for that since centres don't always try as hard as they do on O/D zone draws. You know that the focus level on O/D zone faceoffs is far more intense since many, many goals come directly off an offensive zone faceoff win (especially on the powerplay).

Look deeper into faceoff percentages and discard the less significant numbers to get a greater appreciation of the numbers. Perhaps it would also be more fair to compare Hodgson's faceoffs last year early on in Vancouver when Kesler was injured with Schroeder's faceoffs this year (to compensate for the difference in age) when Kesler is once again out of the lineup?
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#199 oldnews

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

Just a little Kassian vs Hodgson comparison - relative corsi thus far this season:

Kassian 6th on the Canucks at +14.9
Hodgson 24th on Buffalo at -6.8

Kassian quality of competition +.458, 5th strongest on the Canucks.
Hodgson -.035 - 20th stongest competiton faced on Buffalo.
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#200 The Dark Knight

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:13 PM

what is this corsi statistic that I hear mentioned every so often? Is it just a set of statistical data of every hockey stat recorded per game that formulate a number?
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#201 Millerdraft

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

what is this corsi statistic that I hear mentioned every so often? Is it just a set of statistical data of every hockey stat recorded per game that formulate a number?


http://www.arcticice...uestions-3-what

http://www.matchstic...e-corsi-fenwick
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#202 oldnews

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:32 PM

I agree with Millerdraft regarding the relevance of D/N/O zone faceoffs -and I believe it was Miller's point a few days ago that AV was using Schroeder in D zone starts at a frequency that was surprising - and impressive considering AV had that much trust in a youngster playing his first games in the NHL...
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#203 oldnews

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

Sorry but Hodgson was always touted to be better.

Schroeder is good though, but don't expect him to be better then Hodgson. If anything, hope Kassian can pan out.


Sorry but touting is irrelevant.
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#204 The Dark Knight

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

Is there a website that tracks Corsi? What is Schroeder at so far?
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#205 Silfverberg Snipes

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:17 PM

I love how hard you guys try to make Schroeder seem better than Hodgson.

Hodgson is and always will be a step above Schroeder due to his offensive prowess. Defence is great, but with our scoring woes I'd take Hodgson 10 times out of 10 over Schroeder.
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#206 Kassian's Face

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:21 PM

I love how people are still debating the values of two players who will have very short NHL careers. Pun intended.
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#207 KING ALBERTS

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:25 PM

An average pass? You mean the perfect saucer past 2 defenders sticks right onto the tape of Raymonds stick?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_3Tg7-g0DM

Schroeder has been extremely effective out there. His speed is excellent, he is logging almost 15 mins a game, and he has been doing excellent work on the PP (putting in 4 mins a game) behind only the Twins, Edler, and Garrison. You think AV is just putting him out there to eat up minutes?


LOL
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i fel off the banwagon and hit my hed on a rok


#208 Millerdraft

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

Is there a website that tracks Corsi? What is Schroeder at so far?


http://www.behindthe...63 67&ds=30&f5=
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Kassian.... Taylor Pyatt 3.0

Lies. He's more of a Steve Bernier. Hopefully his talent level goes up so he can become like a Taylor Pyatt.


#209 Hunter.S-Kerouac

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:20 PM

He can do better on the Canucks than CoHo ever could and get more ice time because he can log minutes CoHo couldn't. Overall though I think CoHo has more high end potential. Personally I always liked the play of Schredder over Coho when I saw them together in pre season games.

Edited by honey badger36, 28 January 2013 - 10:22 PM.

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#210 The Dark Knight

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:45 PM

Another solid effort from Schroeder tonight. Was the Canucks best face off man this game going 7 wins 4 losses.

He got sheltered during the last 5 mins of the game or his Groin was bothering him but I feel like he was strong enough in the game to continue playing. I'm not coach though so maybe he saw something different.
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