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Canucks D-Man Overpaid?


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#31 Christophe

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:36 AM

Alex Edler- Is worth 5m when he plays his game and physical. Not to mention he racks up a lot of points.
Jason Garrison- 4.6m is definitely overpaying for a 1 hit wonder. The only reason Canucks went after him thought, is probably because Salo signed in Tampa.
Kevin Bieska- 4.6m is overpayment for Bieksa. 3.5 - 4 for the most part. He has his occassional good game, but usually is carried by his D partner and makes a lot of questionable plays.
Dan Hamhuis- 4.5m is worth every penny. Hands down the best player on this team in the defensive zone.
Keith Ballard-4.2m is obviously an overpayment on this team. Top 4 it probably wouldn't be bad, but he needs to be moved to relieve cap for our new contracts next season.
Andrew Alberts-1,225,000m hasn't even played this season yet IIRC. Not really worth it if he never plays. Wouldn't be bad if he was sitting in the minors not counting against the cap.
Chris Tanev- 900,000k is obviously good. He's probably the most consistent Dman next to Hamhuis. Just has to get his offensive game going.
Cam Barker- 700,000 (48 Games) Only time will tell.
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#32 NUCKS4CUP 28

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

Edler and Bieksa are overpaid and overrated. They're 3/4 D-Men on most teams, but for some reason our fanbase seems to think Edler is the 2nd coming of Lidstrom.
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#33 DeNiro

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:43 AM

I love how people will say a player is overpaid by like 500k. Really? You're that much of a contract expert that you know this?

Honestly the way Bieksa, Edler, and Garrison played tonight, they wouldn't be worth 2 million. But it's one game. Does it mean their value is defined by that one game? No it doesn't.

Edler will likely put up 30+ points, Garrison hopefully 20+ points, and Bieksa 20+ points. Two bad giveaways doesn't take away from their value. They'll all settle into things as they go along. It's only 5 games in.
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#34 Patrick Kane

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:47 AM

Only overpaid player is Ballard, and possibly Garrison.
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#35 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

Edler and Bieksa are overpaid and overrated. They're 3/4 D-Men on most teams, but for some reason our fanbase seems to think Edler is the 2nd coming of Lidstrom.


Edler is better than that, I agree on Bieksa.

Both are inconsistent, but I think Bieksa is mor einconsistent and I think Edler's upside (when on his game) is far greater.

Only overpaid player is Ballard, and possibly Garrison.


And Bieksa.
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#36 NUCKS4CUP 28

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:54 AM

Edler is better than that, I agree on Bieksa.

Both are inconsistent, but I think Bieksa is mor einconsistent and I think Edler's upside (when on his game) is far greater.



And Bieksa.


I admit, Edler, WHEN on his game can be the best D-Man in the league, however the keyword there is "WHEN," which is few and far games between.

Never been a fan of Bieksa though. I personally always thought of him as a bum. Aside from his goal against San Jose in 2011 in the playoffs, and his badass fight after he "shhh'd" the crowd, he's never done anything I've liked.
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#37 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:13 AM

I admit, Edler, WHEN on his game can be the best D-Man in the league, however the keyword there is "WHEN," which is few and far games between.

Never been a fan of Bieksa though. I personally always thought of him as a bum. Aside from his goal against San Jose in 2011 in the playoffs, and his badass fight after he "shhh'd" the crowd, he's never done anything I've liked.


He's done alot I liked, and I like him but I think he should be considered as a guy to potentially move in the offseason if Ballard continues to play like this. (Could also get some nicer pieces back in a trade)

For every good game he has he has 2-5 bad/mediocre ones, and that's not good for a guy playing our biggest and most important minutes with Hammer.
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#38 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:15 AM

Based on their last 2 or 3 seasons of play, and what other D-men make around the league, here's what they all deserve:

Edler - 5 million. Would be 6 if he wasn't so crap defensively this year.
Garrison - 3.5 million. Had one good year, THAT'S IT! Even 3 million is pushing it for a one-hit wonder.
Hamhuis - 4.5 million, if not 5. Amazing defence and he's around a 0.5 point per game guy now. Still underated on this team.
Bieksa - 3 million. Good for 40 points but brutal on defence.
Ballard - 1.5 million. No offence, shocking defence, this one's obvious.
Tanev - 1 million. Best defender on our team but still no offence.
Alberts - 600K. Doesn't play enough to earn in the millions.
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#39 Patrick Kane

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:19 AM

Edler is better than that, I agree on Bieksa.

Both are inconsistent, but I think Bieksa is mor einconsistent and I think Edler's upside (when on his game) is far greater.



And Bieksa.



Bieksa has hit 40+ points three times in his career. He is known to be a physical player, who can hit and fight. Leader, and liked by his team-mates. Although he has defensive lapses, hes proven to be able to play in a top pairing shut-down role (with Mitchell and Hamhuis)

4.6 is not bad at all.

Comparables:

Goligoski (4.6)
Coburn (4.5)
Komisarek (4.5)
Hainsey (4.5)
Kaberle (4.25)
Volchenkov (4.25)
Martin (5)
Tyutin (4.5)
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#40 NUCKS4CUP 28

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:23 AM

He's done alot I liked, and I like him but I think he should be considered as a guy to potentially move in the offseason if Ballard continues to play like this. (Could also get some nicer pieces back in a trade)

For every good game he has he has 2-5 bad/mediocre ones, and that's not good for a guy playing our biggest and most important minutes with Hammer.


Hell I'd almost say moving Bieksa and Edler would be worth it if we were to get a TRUE #1 D-Man back in return. Hamhuis, I think, is by far our best D-Man we have, and I think he's close to being a true #1 D-Man, but he's not quite there.
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#41 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:29 AM

Bieksa has hit 40+ points three times in his career. He is known to be a physical player, who can hit and fight. Leader, and liked by his team-mates. Although he has defensive lapses, hes proven to be able to play in a top pairing shut-down role (with Mitchell and Hamhuis)

4.6 is not bad at all.

Comparables:

Goligoski (4.6)
Coburn (4.5)
Komisarek (4.5)
Hainsey (4.5)
Kaberle (4.25)
Volchenkov (4.25)
Martin (5)
Tyutin (4.5)


When he is on his game he brings all that stuff.

When he is off it he is easily our worst, most overpaid defenseman and is worse than all those guys. (Myself I would take Coburn over him forsure, and possibly Goligoski aswell)

He is like Dion Phaneuf, when Dion is on his game he is great, perhaps one of the best in the league, when off it he terrible a grossly overrated, I see Bieksa as the exact same (with less upside)

IMO for every game Bieksa brings all the things you said, he has about 2-5 terrible/mediocre games, and like I said before that isn't good to be having for a 1st pair guy, who plays in our most important situations.
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#42 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:31 AM

Hell I'd almost say moving Bieksa and Edler would be worth it if we were to get a TRUE #1 D-Man back in return. Hamhuis, I think, is by far our best D-Man we have, and I think he's close to being a true #1 D-Man, but he's not quite there.


Personally wouldn't jump the gun on Edler, as he has been getting more consistent and I think he will bounce back and continue to mature into the #1 defensemen he can be (IMO), Bieksa I'm not so confident about. (Also agree Hammer is our best)

I would look (in the offseason, if Ballard plays the way he has all year and Bieksa doesn't improve and show more consistency) at trading Bieksa. We could get some nice assets.

There would likely be alot of teams interested, so maybe we could get another more consistent guy back, or maybe some coveted younger pieces who knows, that's something I wouldn't rule out though.
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#43 L'Orange

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:00 AM

Edler and Bieksa are. Both have been great, and both have been horrible. Making badecisions resulting turnovers and goals. Neither are the cornerstone that the Canucks need on defense. I say, if things continue this way,
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#44 playboi19

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:02 AM

Everybody is pretty much paid right.
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#45 L'Orange

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:19 AM

It's funny that people say Ballard is overpaid, even though he has been playing closer to his money than either Bieksa or Edler.

They look lost out there. Bieksa especially. He has been a non factor defensively and his poor decisions with penalties have cost the Canucks.

Edler's giveaway right in front of Schneider was horrible. Cory played a solid game, and he got beat on hard goals.

These mistakes wreak of the playoffs.

If they can't find some consistency this year, I would trade Edler and top 6 forward (Booth, Raymond, Higgins) and Schroeder for Shea Weber on July 1st.

then

Bieksa, Alberts, and either Gaunce or Mallet to Winnipeg for Evander Kane.

Sedin - Sedin - Kane
Burrows - Kesler - Kassian
Hansen - Lapierre - Higgins
Volpatti - Malholtra - Weise

Weber - Garrison
Ballard - Hamhuis
Tanev - Vandermeer/Connauton/Corrado
Barker

Schneider
Lack
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#46 CanuckofSteel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:26 AM

Not all defensemen are overpaid...

Bieksa- Overpaid, I notice that Bieksa plays best hockey when it is a contract year. Outside of that he plays like average defensemen, his salary should have been 3.75 or 4 million.

Edler- Not Overpaid, he is good defensemen and is still young. 5 million after this year is not bad, good deal for both sides.

Hamhuis- Not Overpaid, he is worth every single cent. Good defensemen and helps Bieksa look better than he is.

Garrison- Too soon to tell, he has only been a Canuck for a couple of games and we cannot say if he is overpaid or not yet.

Ballard- Not Overpaid (at the moment), but last year he was. He would be very good if he was making under 4 million.

Tanev- Not Overpaid, he makes less than 1 million and is very consistent. One of the most calm and dependable defenseman on Canucks roster.
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#47 Bananas

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:30 AM

With the Salary Cap going down the amount it is, some of these players are definitely overpaid.

Ballard is obvious, but we didn't offer him that money.

Garrison and Bieksa are both overpaid, given a reduced cap.

Same can be said about Booth, though...
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#48 Lancaster

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:57 AM

The problem is that the Canucks have SIX top-4 guys, meaning 2 of them will be under-utilized, with Ballard being the obvious one.
The 3rd pairing usually contribute the least, hence it would seem like the Canucks are overpaying for them (relative for what they bring).

While it may seem like a good idea to just have 2 minimal salary guys as your bottom pairing, it would be very taxing on your top-4, eg. 2010 Flyers when they had Ryan Parent and Lukas Krajicek as the #5/6.
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#49 Russ

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:00 AM

Pretty sure Hamhuis, Edler and maybe Garrison would've all gotten $6M+ on the open market...

I'm pretty sure I remember reading Philly offer him 6/year when they traded for his rights before he ended up signing here.
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#50 Kumquats

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:00 AM

The Sedins are overpaid too...
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#51 n00bxQb

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:12 AM

Canucks 8 D-Man
Alex Edler- 5 Million
Jason Garrison- 4.6 Million
Kevin Bieska- 4.6 Million
Dan Hamhuis- 4.5 Million
Keith Ballard-4.2 Million
Andrew Alberts-1,225,000 Million
Chris Tanev- 900,000
Cam Barker- 700,000 (48 Games)

Im Certain the Canucks pay there d man the most in the league. But Bieska, Ballard and maybe Garrison arent worth that much at all.

Bieska is between a 2.5 to 3.5 million
Ballard- 2 to 3 Million
Garrison- 3 to 4 Million


So is our D- Man Overpaid?

Solution is to trade lu and ballard for a key 2nd line forward and prospects/Picks

Lu and Ballard cap= is just over 9.5 Million in Cap.

To say one is overpaid, you need to compare them to other players you know ...

http://capgeek.com/c...2012&player=663

That's all the $4M to $5M defensemen in the league. There are only a couple guys on there that are arguably better than Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Edler. The jury is still out on Garrison (I think he's fine for the $$ personally).

I don't think you're to get much argument on Ballard. He hasn't played very well since coming to Vancouver and everyone knows it.
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#52 BigRedMachine

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:10 AM

Our problem with our defensive corps is the same it has been for the last several years. We have lots of depth, but no shutdown pair.
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#53 BigRedMachine

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:11 AM

I don't think you're to get much argument on Ballard. He hasn't played very well since coming to Vancouver and everyone knows it.


Yet, in spite of the Ballard fiasco, we continue to take all of Florida's overpriced talent off their hands (Booth, Garrison).

Edited by BigRedMachine, 28 January 2013 - 06:11 AM.

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#54 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:46 AM

It's funny that people say Ballard is overpaid, even though he has been playing closer to his money than either Bieksa or Edler.

They look lost out there. Bieksa especially. He has been a non factor defensively and his poor decisions with penalties have cost the Canucks.

Edler's giveaway right in front of Schneider was horrible. Cory played a solid game, and he got beat on hard goals.

These mistakes wreak of the playoffs.

If they can't find some consistency this year, I would trade Edler and top 6 forward (Booth, Raymond, Higgins) and Schroeder for Shea Weber on July 1st.

then

Bieksa, Alberts, and either Gaunce or Mallet to Winnipeg for Evander Kane.

Sedin - Sedin - Kane
Burrows - Kesler - Kassian
Hansen - Lapierre - Higgins
Volpatti - Malholtra - Weise

Weber - Garrison
Ballard - Hamhuis
Tanev - Vandermeer/Connauton/Corrado
Barker

Schneider
Lack

Riiiiiigghhhhht..... Because signing Edler to a 6 year extension means we're going to trade him..
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#55 Standing_Tall#37

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:50 AM

Garrison just looks brutal. I don't think his style of play fits the nucks. I'd try him on the 2nd PP unit....but all his movement and not being where they(rest of the PP) expects him to be seems to make the whole first unit look messed up...
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#56 Buckeye Fruit

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:11 AM

KB4 is our best D man now. He is paid fairly.
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#57 Shift-4

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:16 AM

You would think that all not named Tanev wanted to be bakers with all the turnovers they were producing out there.


So yes.............they are most definitely overpaid.


Overpaid bakers ::D
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#58 timberz21

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

Bieksa and Garrison are overpaid, but their UFA (or pending UFA) status game them leverage.

Bieksa to me is worth 3.5 (lots of his point came off Sedins' play)
Garrison 3-3.5 (unless he regroup and start playing like last year)
Ballard is obviously overpaid.

Ballard = bought out this summer with cap going down.


The problem is we dont have a real #1 defenseman. We have 4 number 2-3 with Edler(2), Hamhuis(2), Bieksa(3), Garrison(3-4).

Other teams pays their #1 D 6-7M, and their 4th 2-3M. While we pay all 4, 4-5M.

Still i'd rather have a true #1 and less depth at #4-5 than what we have now, but those players dont come around often and are impossible to get, unless overpaying.
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#59 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

Im Certain the Canucks pay there d man the most in the league.


Certainties are fun, but I prefer realities. And the reality is, Sharks, Flyers, and Blackhawks all have a total cap hit for D than the Canucks. And yet, I'd rate Vancouver's higher than those 3.

Vancouver's D cost is higher than most of the league, because it's one of the best and deepest in the league, and full of veteran performers. And when you consider the quality of players who have recently walked away (Salo, Mitchell, Ohlund), it's amazing that it is still so deep.
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#60 NuxFan09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:20 AM

I don't think any of the Dmen besides Ballard are individually overpaid, but I do think Gillis might be overspending for the defense in general. Take away Ballard - I realize he IS playing well! - and the defense payroll looks a bit better.

Even though they're not playing like it lately, guys, the Canucks have a stellar defense core and that's why they're all paid what they are. It's not like Gillis is handing out stupid contracts, although I'll maybe concede that Garrison isn't quite worth his dough...yet. Quite simply, the top 4 just needs to get their heads out of their asses and start playing the way they can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that at the moment Edler, Hamhuis and Bieksa are all playing to their absolute capabilities and as such aren't worth what they're being paid.
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