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Canucks D-Man Overpaid?


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#61 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:21 AM

Edler and Bieksa are overpaid and overrated. They're 3/4 D-Men on most teams, but for some reason our fanbase seems to think Edler is the 2nd coming of Lidstrom.


2011-12 Defenseman Scoring
1. Karlsson - 78
2. Byfuglien - 53
3. Campbell - 53
4. Chara - 52
5. Pietrangelo - 51
6. Weber - 49
7. Edler - 49
8. Boyle - 48
9. Streit - 47
10. Wideman - 46
11. Suter - 46
12. Phaneuf - 44
13. Bieksa - 44
14. Yandle - 43
15. Shattenkirk - 43


...Cool story bro.
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#62 NuxFan09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:30 AM

Edler and Bieksa are overpaid and overrated. They're 3/4 D-Men on most teams, but for some reason our fanbase seems to think Edler is the 2nd coming of Lidstrom.


Edler and Bieksa are #3/4 D-Men? Woah there....

What boggles my mind is that this person obviously thinks our GM is a complete idiot. No GM is perfect and they all make mistakes, but Mike Gillis certainly isn't going to hand out a 6 year, $30 million contract to a freaking 3rd or 4th defenseman. Edler may not be a #1 either, like a lot of us are hoping he'll round out to be, but that's why he's being paid $5M and not $6.5M +, like Weber, Suter, Chara, Doughty and Karlsson..
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#63 NuxFan09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

Bieksa is also a special kind of defenseman, which is why he's being paid $4.6. For all the defensive lapses he goes through from time to time, he's an underrated offensive defenseman, and I'm not just talking about the points. He's a great skating defenseman who, if you pay attention, is adept at skating the puck into the zone and creating chances. He also adds a toughness element that none of our other defenseman have and is usually only reserved for bottom pairing depth defensemen.

Basically, you have a smooth skating, 40+ point defenseman who can play the PP, the PK and fight. That's why he gets paid the big bucks and that's why I'm glad to have him in Vancouver. Some of you don't realize it but you expect perfection from every player. If none of our players had the shortcomings you all love to point out, the Canucks would have a 100+ million dollar payroll because the roster would be made up of all the best players in the NHL. Start looking at the unique traits some of the Canucks' players bring to the table and take the bad with the loads of good.
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#64 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:38 AM

Edler is overpaid. To be the highest paid defenceman on the team and make mistakes like he did tonight........Just glad we have him signed, so that we can trade him come the off season if he remains this inconsistent.


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Edited by BedBeats™2.0, 28 January 2013 - 09:38 AM.

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#65 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

I don't think any of the Dmen besides Ballard are individually overpaid, but I do think Gillis might be overspending for the defense in general. Take away Ballard - I realize he IS playing well! - and the defense payroll looks a bit better.

Even though they're not playing like it lately, guys, the Canucks have a stellar defense core and that's why they're all paid what they are. It's not like Gillis is handing out stupid contracts, although I'll maybe concede that Garrison isn't quite worth his dough...yet. Quite simply, the top 4 just needs to get their heads out of their asses and start playing the way they can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that at the moment Edler, Hamhuis and Bieksa are all playing to their absolute capabilities and as such aren't worth what they're being paid.


Truthin.
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#66 Dogbyte

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

The biggest problem is that 2 out of our top 4 defenceman can't play defence. That would be Edler and Bieksa. You can usually hide one liability in your top 4 if he makes up for it on offence, and maybe one more guy in the bottom pairing but not 2 in the top 4.
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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#67 Dogbyte

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:46 AM

Edler and Bieksa are overpaid and overrated. They're 3/4 D-Men on most teams, but for some reason our fanbase seems to think Edler is the 2nd coming of Lidstrom.


Yeah, I hate to bash our own players but he's got to have one of the lowest hockey IQ's I've ever seen. He's also pretty slow. Great physical attributes ... if only the brain worked as well as the body.
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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#68 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:50 AM

The biggest problem is that 2 out of our top 4 defenceman can't play defence. That would be Edler and Bieksa.


That was very silly of you.

Im pretty darn sure ive seen them defend the living poo-doo out of this team.
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#69 NuxFan09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

I think a good comparable for Edler would be Joni Pitkanen. They're both undoubtedly talented, #1 defensemen but neither are in the elite tier because they're too inconsistent defensively.

Call me crazy, but I think even more ice time would be beneficial for Edler. Some of you may not be believers, but I'm convinced Edler has what it takes to be in that top tier of defensemen and I just think he needs to be thrown into the fire a bit more to figure it all out. Give him 25+ minutes game in and game out and watch him find another level in his game. It may not happen until late this season or even into next season but it will happen. None of the current elite D-Men became what they are without their coaches heaping tons of responsibilities on them and taking/accepting the gaffes that come with the learning process.

Especially if AV is now going to put Hamhuis and Edler together, the club's two best defensemen, he might as well give those two the lions share of the minutes.
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#70 janisahockeynut

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

I hate responses that don't look at the whole picture. You guys are dumping on the defensemen, without addressing the whole problem. First of all, the forwards need to be collasping closer to the net when required and near the points at other times. Included in that is a hard back check to help out the "D".

And as you witnessed last night, when we skate and control the puck, our defensemen look just great, and don't get put into those bad spots. Do they make mistakes yes! Like all D men. But remember, both Anahiem and the sharks are bigger teams, and the Canucks need to play accordinly.

Last point in that assistant coach Newell, is in charge of special teams....how is that working out these day? If the D were in a tighter offensive box???position then the other goalies would not have such along time to wait for the puck, and the D man would be Teeing it up alot closr to the goal. 4 of them 5 of us on the PP.

And my last, last point is we still need that big nasty Dman that can handle 15 minutes a game, and play the penalty kill.....I think we get out sized low against the bigger teams.

Is it all the D-fensemens fault ....no........would you rather have Calgarys or Torontos etc....

Edited by zcaptain, 28 January 2013 - 10:08 AM.

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#71 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:03 AM

I think a good comparable for Edler would be Joni Pitkanen. They're both undoubtedly talented, #1 defensemen but neither are in the elite tier because they're too inconsistent defensively.

Call me crazy, but I think even more ice time would be beneficial for Edler. Some of you may not be believers, but I'm convinced Edler has what it takes to be in that top tier of defensemen and I just think he needs to be thrown into the fire a bit more to figure it all out. Give him 25+ minutes game in and game out and watch him find another level in his game. It may not happen until late this season or even into next season but it will happen. None of the current elite D-Men became what they are without their coaches heaping tons of responsibilities on them and taking/accepting the gaffes that come with the learning process.

Especially if AV is now going to put Hamhuis and Edler together, the club's two best defensemen, he might as well give those two the lions share of the minutes.


I recall Ken Hitchcock saying the same thing about ice time regarding either Klesla or Hedja in his time with Columbus.

He called it "heavy minutes".

That will probably happen with Eddie. Its the only way he will become more complete.
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#72 janisahockeynut

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

I think a good comparable for Edler would be Joni Pitkanen. They're both undoubtedly talented, #1 defensemen but neither are in the elite tier because they're too inconsistent defensively.

Call me crazy, but I think even more ice time would be beneficial for Edler. Some of you may not be believers, but I'm convinced Edler has what it takes to be in that top tier of defensemen and I just think he needs to be thrown into the fire a bit more to figure it all out. Give him 25+ minutes game in and game out and watch him find another level in his game. It may not happen until late this season or even into next season but it will happen. None of the current elite D-Men became what they are without their coaches heaping tons of responsibilities on them and taking/accepting the gaffes that come with the learning process.

Especially if AV is now going to put Hamhuis and Edler together, the club's two best defensemen, he might as well give those two the lions share of the minutes.

Good comment!
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#73 Baggins

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

KB3 is one of my fav Canucks, but honestly, I think he does not worth 4.5M......maybe 4M at most.


Try and get a 40+ point d-man on the open market for 4m or less. Particularly one that can play pp, pk, shutdown, plays physical and will fight. Good luck with that.
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#74 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

Try and get a 40+ point d-man on the open market for 4m or less. Particularly one that can play pp, pk, shutdown, plays physical and will fight. Good luck with that.


Reminds me of when this board went absolutely insane wanting J-Bow here.
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#75 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:10 AM

Never been a fan of Bieksa though. I personally always thought of him as a bum. Aside from his goal against San Jose in 2011 in the playoffs, and his badass fight after he "shhh'd" the crowd, he's never done anything I've liked.


Bieksa was the 2nd-highest even-strength-scoring defenseman in the league last season. Only Karlsson scored more. You didn't "like" that?
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#76 Shift-4

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

Reminds me of when this board went absolutely insane wanting J-Bow here.



*snickers*
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#77 Dogbyte

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

That was very silly of you.

Im pretty darn sure ive seen them defend the living poo-doo out of this team.

lol, I can't remember the last time Bieksa actually made a stop out there and I've given up on Edler. If our team gameplan and offence wasn't so good Towes would be right and we would be exposed for what we are. A good offensive team with terrible defenders, and great goalies to cover their asses.

Edited by Dogbyte, 28 January 2013 - 10:25 AM.

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"What players need is the right kind of strength and power. That includes learning to understand that leverage and positioning can be just as important as raw strength when it comes to winning battles in the game. It's more about timing and athleticism --and avoiding injury--than it is about how much you can bench press. I don't know how many times I've seen a guy with the physique of a defensive end line up a guy half his size, only to bounce off when he connects. Sure, there is room in the game for big guys who can throw their weight around. But for the most part, players are smart enough to see them coming--and strong enough to protect the puck when they arrive. There are trainers out there who know how to devlop hockey-specific strength--though a trainer can help only if a player follows the program. All too often, I've seen players sign up with the best trainer, but not show up for their workouts and never to reap the benefits."

 

Bobby Orr - ORR MY STORY Viking 2013


#78 Nevlach

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

But Edler had that beauty assist last night!
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#79 Edlerberry

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Bieksa capitalized on a career year in his contract year, plus he was our only 'consistent' right handed D man.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


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Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#80 higgyfan

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

5 games in and people want to blow up our defence core.

Both Edler and Bieksa would have been snatched up in free agency and would be making at least what they are with the Canucks.

Tough, high scoring D men are in big demand. They are core players and trading them would have a very negative affect on the team.
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#81 janisahockeynut

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

5 games in and people want to blow up our defence core.

Both Edler and Bieksa would have been snatched up in free agency and would be making at least what they are with the Canucks.

Tough, high scoring D men are in big demand. They are core players and trading them would have a very negative affect on the team.

Good call! Way too much panic on these boards.....hope MG doesn't panic like this!......Next thing you know, CDC will want Dana Murzyn back!

Edited by zcaptain, 28 January 2013 - 11:26 AM.

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#82 NUCKS4CUP 28

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

To say one is overpaid, you need to compare them to other players you know ...

http://capgeek.com/c...2012&player=663

That's all the $4M to $5M defensemen in the league. There are only a couple guys on there that are arguably better than Hamhuis, Bieksa, and Edler. The jury is still out on Garrison (I think he's fine for the $$ personally).

I don't think you're to get much argument on Ballard. He hasn't played very well since coming to Vancouver and everyone knows it.


God damn, what I would do to get Giordano on this team.... :emot-parrot:
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#83 itsagoal

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

Overpaid? Absolutely! As are many D-men throughout the league. The question should really be; What value are we getting for the big money being paid? In reality some of these guys could have gotten more on the open market(Edler)but the play of our "top" D-men has been atrocious so far. I like Edler's potential but he is still showing some of the dumb play that cost us some big goals in the playoffs with LA last year. After that debacle he is rewarded with big money. Lesson learned? Hmmmm!Every game so far this year he has made some huge blunders. He needs to be held more accountable for his play but all I see is him being rewarded with more ice time. Yes it's early but with the short season this year, before you know it, it will be too late. Realistically even for the die hard Canuck fan there is no warm fuzzy feeling that this team has a real chance at the Cup unless some key acquisitions are made and\or Kesler makes a miraculuos recovery after sitting out for a year. Even when he comes back, how good can he be?
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#84 Drakrami

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

Edler took a discount to be a Canucks, should be thankful for that. He is 26 years old, his prime years. Could easily sign for 6-7mil elsewhere.

If we paid anything less Garrison probably would and could sign somewhere else.

Others I have no comment..
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#85 Bodee

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

We pay them for their offence because mostly the attacking lines are mediocre. Lu does the defence on his own...........that's how it works and that is how this team has been set up.

Me? I'm tired of it, it's high time our goalies got some help/protection and it's high time our attack pulled their weight.

Edited by Bodee, 28 January 2013 - 02:01 PM.

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#86 Mclean1

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

garrison has been a big disappointment not worth the 4.6 million....i want Salo back his kicking ass on TB's powerplay.
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#87 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:52 PM

garrison has been a big disappointment not worth the 4.6 million....i want Salo back his kicking ass on TB's powerplay.


And in a few weeks, he'll be kicking ass on TB's IR... ...so what?
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#88 Patrick Kane

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

Bieksa is also a special kind of defenseman, which is why he's being paid $4.6. For all the defensive lapses he goes through from time to time, he's an underrated offensive defenseman, and I'm not just talking about the points. He's a great skating defenseman who, if you pay attention, is adept at skating the puck into the zone and creating chances. He also adds a toughness element that none of our other defenseman have and is usually only reserved for bottom pairing depth defensemen.

Basically, you have a smooth skating, 40+ point defenseman who can play the PP, the PK and fight. That's why he gets paid the big bucks and that's why I'm glad to have him in Vancouver. Some of you don't realize it but you expect perfection from every player. If none of our players had the shortcomings you all love to point out, the Canucks would have a 100+ million dollar payroll because the roster would be made up of all the best players in the NHL. Start looking at the unique traits some of the Canucks' players bring to the table and take the bad with the loads of good.


This.
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#89 BigRedMachine

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

The problem is that the Canucks have SIX top-4 guys, meaning 2 of them will be under-utilized, with Ballard being the obvious one.
The 3rd pairing usually contribute the least, hence it would seem like the Canucks are overpaying for them (relative for what they bring).


6 top 4 guys, but no shutdown pair.
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#90 DooBie604

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

Overpaid? Yes. Overpaid for market value? Hell no. Most of our defensemen (with the exception of Ballard who is starting to earn his keep) would have made way more on the open market. I don't think Canuck fans realize how much defensemen make on the open market. People would have thrown money at Juice and Edler.

Even Garrison who has only had a few games to adapt to a new team and their system is already thrown under the bus. And for your information he had two good years and not just one. He was great as a shutdown guy the year before. He did take a pay cut to play here and yet many of you are judging him on a new team after a few games? It's not easy to learn the tendencies of your defensive partners and the forwards back checking in such a short amount of time.

Even Ryan Suter who was so coveted and paid 10 million is not playing well right now and still adjusting to his new teams system. You can't just jump into a new environment and expect to just fit in and know how everyone plays right away.

Edited by DooBie604, 28 January 2013 - 05:44 PM.

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