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My Logical Theory on the Future of Our Goaltending


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#1 Hectic

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:16 AM

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First off, I'd like to mention that this post will have absolutely nothing to do with what has gone on in the first 5 games of the season. It has come to my attention that there has many mixed emotions when it comes to our situation in net - here's my opinion of what the current state is and what I believe would be the best decisions to make.

Considering that this is a shortened season, I would have no problem with having both Lu and Schnieder. I remember back in the day when we had Cloutier and Bob Essensa (I know..) and Crawford would rotate the goalies and keep playing one until they lost, and then would ride the next one (no pun intended). My only concern with this would be in the playoffs.. And that's why I'll explain my next point.

I agree that Luongo's contract is a tough one to hang on to. I understand that Luongo will not be in his "prime" for the duration of his contract. However, I'm also very aware that Lu will be regarded as one of the best goaltenders of all time. I'm also very confident in the fact that for the next 2-4 years, Luongo will still be considered a great goalie in this league, and essentially in his "prime." What about the rest of our team? Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Garrison, Edler, and Hamhuis can be considered as part of our core, and together will be in their "prime" for another.. Lets say 2-4 years for simplicity's sake. Now if we were to trade Schneider, we still have a full team in their prime, plus the return for Schneider (which IMO would be greater than the return for Luongo). However, if we trade Luongo, we are essentially moving to a goaltender who isn't in his prime, and in a holistic sense downgrading in that position. I understand fully that Schneider will be a goalie of the future. However, if our cup window is closing, we may as well go all in, and win this thing in the next 2-4 years when our whole team is in its prime, PLUS the return for Schneider PLUS the development of Kassian and Shroeder.

I hope that all made sense. I've been thinking it for a while now, and when everyone says "Oh hey Hectic (because that's what I go by), when do you think they'll trade Luongo?" I tell him "I think it would be foolish for them to do that.." for all the above reasons. And of course they don't get it, because they are bandwagon fans. But I know there are some legitimate hockey fans here, and if this makes sense and is valid in your opinion, then Hectic is happy.
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#2 Bananas

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:22 AM

...nah
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#3 frazzY

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:48 AM

I agree with u, the media puts so many twists on this, and they put words in MG's mouth.

I wouldnt be surprised if Schneider is just as much "on the block" as Lu is... And i wouldn't be disapointed with any of the options going forward, as they are both awesome goalies.

Good points though
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#4 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:50 AM

The goaltender is the most important player oN the ice. Especially in the playoffs (look at who's won the Conn Smythe the previous two years). So we should hang on to the best goaltender we've got, and if the management believes that this is Schneider, then we should hang on to him.
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#5 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:05 AM

try calculating our cap and payroll for next year @ 64,300,000 with Luongo on the books.. Its literally impossible to fill a full 25 man roster if we don't loose either Luongo's or Ballard's (or someone else's) with all the other contracts we already have signed. And thats without resigning role players like Higgins, Lapierre and Raymond...

Myself and mostly every Canucks fan loves Luongo and Ballard etc... but unfortunately its just not possible to keep all our players with the new CBA salary cap. Gillis has no other option then make a trade.

Edited by Burr's bandwagon, 28 January 2013 - 03:08 AM.

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#6 frazzY

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:13 AM

try calculating our cap and payroll for next year @ 64,300,000 with Luongo on the books.. Its literally impossible to fill a full 25 man roster if we don't loose either Luongo's or Ballard's (or someone else's) with all the other contracts we already have signed. And thats without resigning role players like Higgins, Lapierre and Raymond...

Myself and mostly every Canucks fan loves Luongo and Ballard etc... but unfortunately its just not possible to keep all our players with the new CBA salary cap. Gillis has no other option then make a trade.



Lol what happens when Schneider gets a raise??? Lu's cap hit is very manageable

Edit: i guess schneids is at 4m til 2015 but both are good low prices for premier goalies

Edited by frazzY, 28 January 2013 - 03:16 AM.

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#7 Riviera82

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:20 AM

So your theory is that the Canucks can win the Stanley Cup with Luongo as our starter and the return we get for Schneider in a trade.
Now that Luongo is another year older I guess his issue of getting scored on too many times in certain playoff games has vanished, correct? I'm sorry but I sincerely doubt that.
I dont really like beating the same old dead horse but chances are, no matter who's on our team, Luongo's playoff inconsistencies will continue. And if that is the case (which it probably is) we wont be winning anything except division titles. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Schneider is the man now and is only entering his prime, Luongo will be 34 this year and is arguably beyond that. Therefore moving Schneider instead would be foolish because the goaltender is usually regarded as the most important player on any team. This of course is only my opinion and I'm sure not everyone will agree.

As for Luongo being regarded as one of the best goaltenders of all time. Personally i think that's being very very optimistic. He will most definitely rank high in career regular season statistics but other than that there is nothing to warrant him being mentioned with the likes of Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Dominik Hasek, and the other greats from years past. A couple of Vezinas and a Stanley Cup or two could change that, but that is a lot to ask for at this stage of his career.
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#8 wai_lai416

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:21 AM

try calculating our cap and payroll for next year @ 64,300,000 with Luongo on the books.. Its literally impossible to fill a full 25 man roster if we don't loose either Luongo's or Ballard's (or someone else's) with all the other contracts we already have signed. And thats without resigning role players like Higgins, Lapierre and Raymond...

Myself and mostly every Canucks fan loves hates Luongo and Ballard etc... but unfortunately its just not possible to keep all our players with the new CBA salary cap. Gillis has no other option then make a trade.


fixed it for you
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#9 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 05:27 AM

I've said this all along.

Schneider is nowhere near his prime yet. He hasn't even had a full season as starter. He hasn't played much playoff hockey, he hasn't been in big games yet. These experiences are what moulds a goalie - even young goalies like Quick and Rinne have been through a few years of playoff failure before they could put it together and play well in the post-season.

Schneider will take another couple of years before he's ready to become a Cup-challenging goalie. Right now he has no idea what it's like to play under the pressure of a starting goalie let alone in the playoffs. Luongo on the otherhand does. He's been through all the big games, won big games and lost them and has developed more and more over the last 5 odd years so that he may put it all together now.

We don't have time for Schneider to put all these experiences together, because the rest of our core players will be well past their prime then. Stick with Luongo, who's grown and developed with the rest of our core like the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Edler and Hamhuis.
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#10 Kryten

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:14 AM

I've said this all along.

Schneider is nowhere near his prime yet. He hasn't even had a full season as starter. He hasn't played much playoff hockey, he hasn't been in big games yet. These experiences are what moulds a goalie - even young goalies like Quick and Rinne have been through a few years of playoff failure before they could put it together and play well in the post-season.

Schneider will take another couple of years before he's ready to become a Cup-challenging goalie. Right now he has no idea what it's like to play under the pressure of a starting goalie let alone in the playoffs. Luongo on the otherhand does. He's been through all the big games, won big games and lost them and has developed more and more over the last 5 odd years so that he may put it all together now.

We don't have time for Schneider to put all these experiences together, because the rest of our core players will be well past their prime then. Stick with Luongo, who's grown and developed with the rest of our core like the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Edler and Hamhuis.


Dr. House is an Aussie is he not? You clearly need to make an appointment.
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#11 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:40 AM

48 games.

Solid goaltending duo.

I do not subscribe to subtracting 1 of the 2 stellar options in the team's last line of defence.

Pretty damn simple what should play out.

The team's most pressing concern is shoring up responsibility with the center position through the 4 lines.
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#12 Rocket Robin

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:40 AM

What doesn't kill us could only make us stronger we've been to the dance with the italian vampire no one on this team wants wants to win as much as Lou good luck against the champs :emot-parrot:
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#13 debluvscanucks

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:46 AM

I believe the decision's already been made, but it's just a matter of the right deal coming along. The writing's on the wall and this is Schneid's team from what I can gather. I'm ok with that - I'm not ok with the fans deciding on a game by game basis. Goaltenders will be have good & bad games, you don't trade or raise the cup each win/loss.

I love Lu and hate the fact that he'll be leaving...but, to me anyhow, it's apparent that he will be. I feel that he's had as much a say in that as anyone at this point.
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#14 bigbadbob

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:55 AM

Lol what happens when Schneider gets a raise??? Lu's cap hit is very manageable

Edit: i guess schneids is at 4m til 2015 but both are good low prices for premier goalies


Please provide evidence that Schneider is a "premier" goalie? Rank in wins? Games played? Seasons played?

Remember, Schneider is all based on potential. League-wide he has yet to be considered a PREMIER goalie!
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#15 stawns

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:31 AM

First off, I'd like to mention that this post will have absolutely nothing to do with what has gone on in the first 5 games of the season. It has come to my attention that there has many mixed emotions when it comes to our situation in net - here's my opinion of what the current state is and what I believe would be the best decisions to make.

Considering that this is a shortened season, I would have no problem with having both Lu and Schnieder. I remember back in the day when we had Cloutier and Bob Essensa (I know..) and Crawford would rotate the goalies and keep playing one until they lost, and then would ride the next one (no pun intended). My only concern with this would be in the playoffs.. And that's why I'll explain my next point.

I agree that Luongo's contract is a tough one to hang on to. I understand that Luongo will not be in his "prime" for the duration of his contract. However, I'm also very aware that Lu will be regarded as one of the best goaltenders of all time. I'm also very confident in the fact that for the next 2-4 years, Luongo will still be considered a great goalie in this league, and essentially in his "prime." What about the rest of our team? Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Garrison, Edler, and Hamhuis can be considered as part of our core, and together will be in their "prime" for another.. Lets say 2-4 years for simplicity's sake. Now if we were to trade Schneider, we still have a full team in their prime, plus the return for Schneider (which IMO would be greater than the return for Luongo). However, if we trade Luongo, we are essentially moving to a goaltender who isn't in his prime, and in a holistic sense downgrading in that position. I understand fully that Schneider will be a goalie of the future. However, if our cup window is closing, we may as well go all in, and win this thing in the next 2-4 years when our whole team is in its prime, PLUS the return for Schneider PLUS the development of Kassian and Shroeder.

I hope that all made sense. I've been thinking it for a while now, and when everyone says "Oh hey Hectic (because that's what I go by), when do you think they'll trade Luongo?" I tell him "I think it would be foolish for them to do that.." for all the above reasons. And of course they don't get it, because they are bandwagon fans. But I know there are some legitimate hockey fans here, and if this makes sense and is valid in your opinion, then Hectic is happy.


Luongo isn't even in the top 15-20 goalies of all time.
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#16 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:44 AM

I wouldnt be surprised if Schneider is just as much "on the block" as Lu is...


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#17 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:02 AM

I've said this all along.

Schneider is nowhere near his prime yet. He hasn't even had a full season as starter. He hasn't played much playoff hockey, he hasn't been in big games yet. These experiences are what moulds a goalie - even young goalies like Quick and Rinne have been through a few years of playoff failure before they could put it together and play well in the post-season.

Schneider will take another couple of years before he's ready to become a Cup-challenging goalie. Right now he has no idea what it's like to play under the pressure of a starting goalie let alone in the playoffs. Luongo on the otherhand does. He's been through all the big games, won big games and lost them and has developed more and more over the last 5 odd years so that he may put it all together now.

We don't have time for Schneider to put all these experiences together, because the rest of our core players will be well past their prime then. Stick with Luongo, who's grown and developed with the rest of our core like the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa, Edler and Hamhuis.


Exhibit A:

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Exhibit B:

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Exhibit C:

2011-12 playoff stats:

GAA: 1. Schneider 1.31; 2. Quick 1.41...
Save %: 1. Schneider .960; 2. Quick .946; 3. Smith .944


Schneider is ready. It's clear as day. We just need more secondary scoring, so when we get the stellar, best-in-the-league goaltending Schneider gave us last playoffs, we don't still lose. Our main trading chip to get it is Luongo.
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#18 NuxFan09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:04 AM

Interesting post. I've been thinking lately about the top 5 goalies in the league and the top 3 are a slam dunk: Lundqvist, Quick and Rinne. Then I try to figure out who rounds out the top 5 by thinking about what other goalies have been the best and most consistent and I can't help but come back to Luongo. His stats the last 4 seasons:

2008/2009: 33-13-7, 2.34 GAA, .920 Save%, 9 shutouts

2009/2010: 40-22-4, 2.57 GAA, .913 Save%, 4 shutouts

2010/2011: 38-15-7, 2.11 GAA, .928 Save%, 4 shutouts (VEZINA NOMINATION)

2011/2012: 31-14-8, 2.41 GAA, .919 Save%, 5 shutouts

What's my point? It's easy to forget while he's riding the pine that Luongo is still probably among the best goalies in the league. Other than the big 3 of Lundqvist, Rinne and Quick, what goalie has really been better than him during the last 3 or 4 seasons? I definitely think this team should be going with the younger goalie but I also make sure to give credit where credit is due and that is to Luongo for being one of the best goalies in the league, but just caught in an unfortunate, awkward situation. If the Canucks didn't have Cory Schneider, or even if they did but Schneider wasn't simply as good as he is, none of us would be having this discussion.
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#19 beer&meat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

Interesting post. I've been thinking lately about the top 5 goalies in the league and the top 3 are a slam dunk: Lundqvist, Quick and Rinne. Then I try to figure out who rounds out the top 5 by thinking about what other goalies have been the best and most consistent and I can't help but come back to Luongo. His stats the last 4 seasons:

2008/2009: 33-13-7, 2.34 GAA, .920 Save%, 9 shutouts

2009/2010: 40-22-4, 2.57 GAA, .913 Save%, 4 shutouts

2010/2011: 38-15-7, 2.11 GAA, .928 Save%, 4 shutouts (VEZINA NOMINATION)

2011/2012: 31-14-8, 2.41 GAA, .919 Save%, 5 shutouts

What's my point? It's easy to forget while he's riding the pine that Luongo is still probably among the best goalies in the league. Other than the big 3 of Lundqvist, Rinne and Quick, what goalie has really been better than him during the last 3 or 4 seasons? I definitely think this team should be going with the younger goalie but I also make sure to give credit where credit is due and that is to Luongo for being one of the best goalies in the league, but just caught in an unfortunate, awkward situation. If the Canucks didn't have Cory Schneider, or even if they did but Schneider wasn't simply as good as he is, none of us would be having this discussion.


100% agreed except for the bolded part.

SV% .897
GAA 3.13

It's unfortunate and this happens all too often, goalies looking for starting position playing lights out because they have something to prove, said goalie finally getting his starting contract and no longer has to prove anything and no longer playing lights out hockey.

You want to argue about sample sizes, yet most of you are saying Schnieder is a proven playoff performer based on a 5 game series that he couldn't win.
Keeping Schnieder is not going to go aswell as alot of you think IMO.
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#20 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

Obviously how a goalie plays in the playoffs counts more than how he plays his first few games out of a lockout. Goalies react differently to time off, new situations, etc. Also, some of the teams are struggling in the defensive zone, leaving their goalies out to dry (Cory had no chance on 3/4 goals last night).

Mikka Kiprusoff - 4 GP, 3.44 GAA, .872 Sv%
Mike Smith - 3 GP, 4.62 GAA, .836 Sv%
Cam Ward - 3 GP, 4.71 GAA, .845 Sv%
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#21 NuxFan09

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

100% agreed except for the bolded part.

SV% .897
GAA 3.13

It's unfortunate and this happens all too often, goalies looking for starting position playing lights out because they have something to prove, said goalie finally getting his starting contract and no longer has to prove anything and no longer playing lights out hockey.

You want to argue about sample sizes, yet most of you are saying Schnieder is a proven playoff performer based on a 5 game series that he couldn't win.
Keeping Schnieder is not going to go aswell as alot of you think IMO.


Obviously Schneider's stats are going to start to settle in more realistic territory - as in, I don't think we can expect a sub 2.00 GAA and over .935 Save% when he's playing 60+ games a season - but mark my words, the guy is the real deal and will be competing for Vezina trophies in the not too distant future. I honestly don't think we have to worry about Schneider pulling a Steve Mason. I think his career path will mirror Cam Ward's, except that his stats will be actually be good because he won't be playing in front of a horrid defense year after year like Ward has.
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#22 elvis15

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

Hardly the first person to mention this train of thought, since it's been talked about for sometime in the Luongo Discussion thread (now in 5 flavours!). Unless an exceptional deal comes along for Schneider - like what Gillis was asking for when looking to move Schneider last year and the year before - Luongo will be the one traded.

[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0

Nothing is 100% but unless the return is so good it convinces Gillis otherwise, Schneider will stay and Luongo will move.

Edited by elvis15, 28 January 2013 - 10:29 AM.

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#23 stawns

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:21 AM

Obviously Schneider's stats are going to start to settle in more realistic territory - as in, I don't think we can expect a sub 2.00 GAA and over .935 Save% when he's playing 60+ games a season - but mark my words, the guy is the real deal and will be competing for Vezina trophies in the not too distant future. I honestly don't think we have to worry about Schneider pulling a Steve Mason. I think his career path will mirror Cam Ward's, except that his stats will be actually be good because he won't be playing in front of a horrid defense year after year like Ward has.


Uhhhhhh, thats exactly the reason we're seeing his numbers right now. Aside from game one, Schneider has been standing on his head this season.
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#24 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:52 AM

Lol what happens when Schneider gets a raise??? Lu's cap hit is very manageable

Edit: i guess schneids is at 4m til 2015 but both are good low prices for premier goalies


Thats not an issue, once Schneider is done his contract in 2015 who knows what every else will have signed at. The sedins and half our defense will be different contracts. Next year with the new 64 mil cap is my concern...

Both goalies contracts are very manageable.. But add up all our other "manageable" contracts and that puts us way over cost..

The sedins at 6.1 each are "manageable". Kelser (5mill), burrows (4.5), booth (4.5), garrison (4.6), Ballard (4.5), bieksa (4.6), Hammuis (4.5), Edler (5 mill).... all are manageable contracts.

My point is that we have a lot of good players signed but unfortunately we can't keep them all.. the new CBA has changed things, and a luongo trade is unfortunately the best solution since his cap @6.7 mill next year is our biggest and we have Schneids and lack combined for cheaper.
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#25 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

fixed it for you



hahaha thanks
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#26 Special Ed

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

My logic:

Both goalies on market best deal leaves Vancouver.

Edited by Special Ed, 28 January 2013 - 11:03 AM.

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If you like looking at statistics to determine who's better, you're just a casual fan.

2.41 season GAA isn't very impressive. Let's not get into playoffs and his SV%.

Cory Schneider is the next Patrick Roy.


#27 NUCKS4CUP 28

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:37 AM

I've been saying this since the whole "controversy" started. Trade Schneider because we would get more in return for him than we would for Luongo. In our 2011 Cup Run, we didn't lose because of Luongo, we lost because there were pieces that we needed that we just simply didn't have. Trading Schneider instead of Luongo gets us those pieces, and possibly a little extra more.
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#28 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

I've been saying this since the whole "controversy" started. Trade Schneider because we would get more in return for him than we would for Luongo. In our 2011 Cup Run, we didn't lose because of Luongo, we lost because there were pieces that we needed that we just simply didn't have. Trading Schneider instead of Luongo gets us those pieces, and possibly a little extra more.


Schneider is now better, and will likely be even better as time goes on.

Goaltender is the most important position.

Keep Schneider. The end.
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#29 shazzam

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:56 AM

Schneider is our guy, keeping him over Luongo will be help extend our window to contend.
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#30 NUCKS4CUP 28

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

Schneider is now better, and will likely be even better as time goes on.

Goaltender is the most important position.

Keep Schneider. The end.


Yeah because his 29 games last season really proved he's better than a 2 time gold medal winner, 3 time Vezina nominee, Stanley Cup Finalist, Jennings winner, and someone who is on par with Roy's all-time stats, right?
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