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Jason Garrison so far?


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#301 Gollumpus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:13 AM

Does he take the Sedins with him when he is playing in Buffalo and has 10 points right now?


Nope, but he has Vanek and Pominville on the first line there, and they're doing pretty good. That Vanek guy is currently leading the NHL in points, or haven't you heard? Even Hodgson is finally chipping in with some points. If Erhroff has snuggled in with the Sabres top two lines then it's not too surprising that he has gotten some points, and that he currently has a good +/-, just as he did when he was here. However, ten points is not any great feat, heck, Edler has 10 points (and one more goal than Ehrhoff) here in Vancouver with even with the Canucks anemic offense.

Were the Sedins scoring more, and there are signs that they are waking up, and with the 2nd line starting to be re-populated, the team should be doing a whole lot better than they currently are (current 2 game skid aside).


Vancouver is lucky that they have two elite goalies backstopping their team. Garrison has the advantage of playing on a good team. The way some of you hype this guy up people would think we were talking about Pronger or something.


And the way you are talking you make it sound Ehrhoff is the second coming of Bobby Coffey or Paul Orr.

Buffalo has Ryan Miller, one of the better goalies in the NHL, regardless of his personal stats atm. As mentioned above, Ehrhoff is also getting ice time with one of the better lines currently out there in the NHL.

Yes, Ehrhoff's 10 points and +6 rating are why the Sabres are doing so well in the standings.


Garrison has been horrible on offense and below average to average on defense. He hasn't looked good whether we are talking about stats or actual play.


Garrison is about where he was expected to be at this point with regard to offense. And yes, he has been horrible on defense. It's true that he owes all of +7 points on +/- to the goalies. None of it was him, not a single one.


If you really think Salo and Ehrhoff were not contributing to our SCF team, then you were not watching hockey.


If you really think that green is the colour for the sky then you have really not been outside all that much in the last while, or you're in denial.

Confused?

So what did I just do there? I answered your out of the blue comment which had nothing to do with what I had written with one of my own. Where did I make any kind of mention that Ehrhoff and Salo did not contribute to that Cup run?

I did point out that Ehrhoff got more of the prime ice time with the top line and on the the power play than other players, like Salo. I suggested that with this time there would be a greater chance that he would get more points than guys who did not get that opportunity.

In Buffalo, Ehrhoff is getting a similar opportunity to what he had here in Vancouver. He has decent numbers, but they are no where near as good as they should be, assuming Ehrhoff is as good as you claim.

If you can't figure that out then you then aren't watching hockey.


regards,
G.
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#302 Dildo Faggins

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

When the hell are we gonna start seeing some of that huge slapshot he's supposed to have?
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#303 zejono

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:28 AM

When the hell are we gonna start seeing some of that huge slapshot he's supposed to have?


ya, that is the main reason why MG paid a big 5 mill for him. He thought he would replace salo so easily but salo is laughing at us saying "Suckers cant replace me just like a 4th line plug"
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#304 DeNiro

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:42 AM

When the hell are we gonna start seeing some of that huge slapshot he's supposed to have?


As soon as he starts one timing it and not stopping it on the line.

I think what we're seeing is a guy who is just trying to figure things out on a new team and not do too much. He's starting off trying to play it simple. Once he gets more comfortable with the system and his teammates, I would imagine he'll be much more aggressive offensively. That's what made him effective in Florida.

The Sedins take time to learn how to play with, it doesn't happen after 14 games. Everyone knows he's got a great one timer though, and I'm sure the Sedins and coaches will work with him to utilize it.

Edited by DeNiro, 18 February 2013 - 01:42 AM.

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#305 terrible.dee

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:46 AM

Garrison - Cambell's sweet set ups = VERRY average D-man

Kind of like: Kassian - Sedins sweet set ups = 4th line plummer

I think it's time to move Ballard into Garrison's slot. Both in regular rotation and the PP...

Time to turn KB4 LOOSE!
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#306 The Bookie

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:51 AM

Garrison has had exactly one truly bad game this season and it was Friday against Dallas. He looked fine tonight.

I said it Friday, and DeNiro just said the same thing, but this guy is still adjusting to a new team. The reason he stank the other night is we switched to full offensive mode and he wasn't ready for it. I'd still rather he play it safe until he's comfortable than make kamikaze pinches.

I don't even know why I bother, in a month or so he'll be rolling and y'all will change your tune or disappear. Bunch of hysterical babies after a loss here. Part of competitive sports is accepting a loss. The Blue played their insufferable momentum smothering game tonight and it worked for them, end of story.
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#307 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:31 AM

Garrison was signed for size and versatility. Not just a offensive replacement.

For example last season, Alberts/Rome would dress instead of Ballard when size was needed. With Garrison in the lineup Ballard has been able to get more regular minutes.
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#308 Bossy

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:35 AM

Nope, but he has Vanek and Pominville on the first line there, and they're doing pretty good. That Vanek guy is currently leading the NHL in points, or haven't you heard? Even Hodgson is finally chipping in with some points.


So Ehrhoff has now played defense with the league leader in points three out of the last four years.


Hmm... Sedins are PPG, enter Ehrhoff, suddenly two Art Ross trophies in a row. Exit Ehrhoff, goal scoring woes and Sedins back to a PPG. Meanwhile, Ehrhoff goes to Buffalo, get's injured while the team has a bad year, adjusts and suddenly it's Vanek, a PPG skilled guy who never really broke out in to the top of the league, is ripping the league apart, outscoring Crosby and Stamkos! What is the common factor here...

Our defense is WEAK, it's not his fault we relied on the best offenseive defenseman we've ever had to shut down the other team too. He needs a shutdown guy to play with, we lost our only real shut down guy with Mitchell. A good D core has one GOOD offensive minded guy, an anchor and a shut down guy. Our defense has been 5 people that can do everything half decently for about 4 years now and it just DOESN'T WORK. Ehrhoff did his job but our defense failed because he had no back up. By no means was he is an all star, but he was PIVOTAL to our team. I'm just saying, goal scoring only became a problem AFTER he left and the defense didn't improve any by getting him out either.

Every time the fanboys defend people against stats, they argue intangibles and making others better. Then when they argue with stats, they ignore intangibles and making others better. Ehrhoff is the BEST player in the league to start a break out with. He is the best in the world at making good break out passes. Vanek, a player who usually scores very close to the net, is now getting a ton of points off of the breakout. What did the Sedins see an improvement in when they won the scoring race? Breakout conversions.

If you have any logical sort of mind you wouldn't get the conclusion you got out of these facts.

Edited by Bossy, 18 February 2013 - 02:38 AM.

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#309 Duodenum

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:51 AM

He's been giving us elite level defense. I'll be satisfied with that for a while until his offensive game picks up. Hopefully he's put back into a scenario where he can actually succeed offensively because it looks like they're putting him in a pure defensive role right now.

Has a GA/60 of 1.24, which is awesome.
Has a GF/60 of 3.11, so while he isn't getting points, the team's scoring well while he's out there.

Sure, he could put up some more points and the Canucks will need that eventually, but he isn't even close to a problem right now. He's been exactly as advertised defensively (stud), needs to pick it up offensively.

Edited by Duodenum, 18 February 2013 - 03:55 AM.

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#310 elvis15

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

ya, that is the main reason why MG paid a big 5 mill for him. He thought he would replace salo so easily but salo is laughing at us saying "Suckers cant replace me just like a 4th line plug"

Finally, a clear and rational argument! :rolleyes:

As has been mentioned numerous times, we might have paid a little more with the hope he'd contribute offence, but we mainly paid for his defensive ability. That's what got him into the NHL, and that's what will keep him here. The slapshot is just a bonus when he gets the chance to use it.

As soon as he starts one timing it and not stopping it on the line.

I think what we're seeing is a guy who is just trying to figure things out on a new team and not do too much. He's starting off trying to play it simple. Once he gets more comfortable with the system and his teammates, I would imagine he'll be much more aggressive offensively. That's what made him effective in Florida.

The Sedins take time to learn how to play with, it doesn't happen after 14 games. Everyone knows he's got a great one timer though, and I'm sure the Sedins and coaches will work with him to utilize it.

That is a good follow up, similar to what's been said already numerous times in this thread. +1

He's adjusting to the team, and it didn't work right away so the coaching staff has been looking for other ways to get the PP going. That doesn't mean they won't find a way to better utilize his shot, which for Salo was often from a feed down by the goal line up to the slot as he pinched in, but it does mean he and the other players have to figure out the chemistry of how each other work.
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#311 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

Garrison - Cambell's sweet set ups = VERRY average D-man

Kind of like: Kassian - Sedins sweet set ups = 4th line plummer

I think it's time to move Ballard into Garrison's slot. Both in regular rotation and the PP...

Time to turn KB4 LOOSE!


The problem is that Garrison has made everyone he paired with look bad. We all seen it first hand. Him and Edler, Edler looks bad, HIm and Bieksa made him look bad, and he also made Hamhius look quite bad. Put Ballard there, means we screw Tanev if you pair him up with Garrison. Unreal, we are better off playing with 5 dmans then having him win the line up. Give Cam Barker a shot. i can't see it getting any worst then Garrison.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#312 Darth Kane

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

The problem is that Garrison has made everyone he paired with look bad. We all seen it first hand. Him and Edler, Edler looks bad, HIm and Bieksa made him look bad, and he also made Hamhius look quite bad. Put Ballard there, means we screw Tanev if you pair him up with Garrison. Unreal, we are better off playing with 5 dmans then having him win the line up. Give Cam Barker a shot. i can't see it getting any worst then Garrison.


Seriously? Barker would be immensely worse than Garrison.

Garrison is a new defenseman who's struggling while adapting to a new system, give him time he will improve. Barker just plain sucks.
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#313 Noheart

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

I like how people think hockey is as easy as moving your thumbs around a controller.

We may not see his full potential until the end of the season

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#314 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:38 PM

This is ridiculous.
People saw that he had 16 goals last year and just assumed that he was going to be some sort of offensive juggernaut, when anybody who paid any attention would have known that would likely not be the case.
Garrison is a defensive defence man, a role he has played very well thus far, who has a booming shot from the point. So far it seems like he has been hesitant to let those shots go, but it's more than fair to attribute that to being in a new system, and trying to find a style of game that will allow him to be successful in that system. The fact that he has had very limited PP time, and has been playing his off side for much of that time isn't helping in that regard.
Put him on the PP one the right side and we would see a lot more of what he is capable of offensively.
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#315 NikiShiz

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

Needs to SHOOT the puck and HIT the net. Captain obviouse over here but he has a wicked shot that he's not utilizing properly.
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#316 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

Nikishiz is back? :wub:
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#317 snolan

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

I'm not exactly sure where you guys are getting the opinion that Garrison was signed to be a defensive dmen.... In fact I request a quote of this or else I maintain that it is the interweb's loose opinion (that surfaced after JG started struggling offensively)

He was signed to be a full package and isn't really delivering offensively. I'm not pushing the panic button but jesus, it's so frustrating how people have to be completely on one end of the spectrum or the other.

The truth is JG isn't really fulfilling hype, but he also isn't getting exposed etc.. He isn't generating offense and looks a bit flustered sometimes defensively but you can see AT THE LEAST he has the tools to be good defensively when he settles into the system (note: this is not the sole purpose of his signing)

Offensively, he has had chances but (AV games?) I was amazed last night he wasn't at least put out there for the 2nd shift of the 5v3/4 vs the Blues. That is a red flag to me when I see what we did with Ballard.
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#318 Gollumpus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

So Ehrhoff has now played defense with the league leader in points three out of the last four years.


I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Vanek is anything other than a early season front runner for the scoring title. Good on him for making a bit of noise.

He is getting a lot more goals than what would be his usual pace, but it would appear that he is slowing down and the pack is catching up with him. It's also interesting that even though Vanek is leading the NHL in points, he has no other team mate who is close to him. He's 11 points ahead of each of his line mates and and a whole 15 points ahead of Ehrhoff.

Yes, obviously Ehrhoff is the reason that Vanek is scoring so well. It certainly shows in Ehrhoff's stats.


Hmm... Sedins are PPG, enter Ehrhoff, suddenly two Art Ross trophies in a row. Exit Ehrhoff, goal scoring woes and Sedins back to a PPG. Meanwhile, Ehrhoff goes to Buffalo, get's injured while the team has a bad year, adjusts and suddenly it's Vanek, a PPG skilled guy who never really broke out in to the top of the league, is ripping the league apart, outscoring Crosby and Stamkos! What is the common factor here...


What is the common factor? Perhaps Cody Hodgson?

It is certainly a stretch to suggest that Ehrhoff is the sole reason, or even the main reason that the Sedins won back to back Ross trophies (I kind of think that they would suggest that each other had a more prominent role, and that that Burrows guy helped out a bit). I do believe Ehrhoff helped the team achieve the success which they did have in the two years he was here. I don't believe that anyone would, or should, deny this. To suggest as you are, that he was the primary reason for that success is a bit much.


Our defense is WEAK, it's not his fault we relied on the best offenseive defenseman we've ever had to shut down the other team too. He needs a shutdown guy to play with, we lost our only real shut down guy with Mitchell. A good D core has one GOOD offensive minded guy, an anchor and a shut down guy. Our defense has been 5 people that can do everything half decently for about 4 years now and it just DOESN'T WORK. Ehrhoff did his job but our defense failed because he had no back up. By no means was he is an all star, but he was PIVOTAL to our team. I'm just saying, goal scoring only became a problem AFTER he left and the defense didn't improve any by getting him out either.


Ehrhoff as shutdown d-man? Okay, sure. Was that when Salo, Bieksa, Edler and Hamhuis were injured?

Once again, I do not believe that anyone disputes Ehrhoff's offensive contributions or abilities. I'm not sure where you get the impression that many others do feel this way. However, something which you continue to ignore is that Ehrhoff got prime minutes here which inflated his success at least as much, but probably a whole lot more, than the contribution he made to the individual successes of players like the Sedins.


Every time the fanboys defend people against stats, they argue intangibles and making others better. Then when they argue with stats, they ignore intangibles and making others better.


So this is what you as Ehrhoff fanboy do? :)


Ehrhoff is the BEST player in the league to start a break out with. He is the best in the world at making good break out passes. Vanek, a player who usually scores very close to the net, is now getting a ton of points off of the breakout. What did the Sedins see an improvement in when they won the scoring race? Breakout conversions.



I can't say that I've heard this about Ehrhoff. And if Ehrhoff is so good at breakout passes, and if Vanek is reaping the benefit of Ehrhoff's skill in this area, then why don't Ehrhoff's numbers show a greater number of assists to reflect this ability and Vanek's scoring pace?

If you have any logical sort of mind you wouldn't get the conclusion you got out of these facts.


Yes, the way one achieves a logical conclusion is to include only information which supports your position, and from that reach the conclusion which you already have in mind. You also completely disregard anything contrary to your position, and ascribe to those who hold a contrary position, comments or beliefs which they do not necessarily hold. You then infer that anyone who does have a contrary position to yours is illogical.

Yeah, we should all be as logical as you.


regards,
G.
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#319 Darth Kane

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

This is ridiculous.
People saw that he had 16 goals last year and just assumed that he was going to be some sort of offensive juggernaut, when anybody who paid any attention would have known that would likely not be the case.
Garrison is a defensive defence man, a role he has played very well thus far, who has a booming shot from the point. So far it seems like he has been hesitant to let those shots go, but it's more than fair to attribute that to being in a new system, and trying to find a style of game that will allow him to be successful in that system. The fact that he has had very limited PP time, and has been playing his off side for much of that time isn't helping in that regard.
Put him on the PP one the right side and we would see a lot more of what he is capable of offensively.


I like the cut of your jib.
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#320 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

Seriously? Barker would be immensely worse than Garrison.

Garrison is a new defenseman who's struggling while adapting to a new system, give him time he will improve. Barker just plain sucks.


Whats the time frame for the adjustment? Just wondering. Christian Ehrhoff, Dan Hamhius, had no issues adjusting to our system right away. Oh right, those are defencemens at a different level, I forgot that, despite being payed the same, he is not even at their level. I do however hope he snaps out of his slump.
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Players Nikolaj Ehlers have been compared too by the fan base of the Vancouver Canucks.

 

1 Pavel Bure

2 Markus Naslund

3 Nathan Mackkinon

4 Jonathan Drouin.

5 Jonathan Tavares

 

http://bleacherrepor...d-top-prospects

combine results.  Ehlers 5'11 162 lbs of solid rock.  


#321 nizzy10

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

I think MG shouldn't have paid garrison 4+ a year he's not worth it at least not yet. We bought him in as a offensive defence men and he hasn't contributed... He's not on the fricken power play for gods sake. 4+ million for an average defencemen is way to much. Hopefully he doesn't turn out to be another bust from Florida lol
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#322 Edlerberry

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

The way Edler is playing right now, he doesn't even deserve the money that Ehrhoff is making, never mind making $1 mil more than him. He has been playing worse defense than Ehrhoff right now.


Regardless of what he 'deserves' its how it would play out.
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July 7-2013

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July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#323 Hockey Fever

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

Yeah he's been pretty much invisible so far.
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#324 Kryten

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

There is a reason hasn't let loose his one-timer, the passes to him have been absolutely terrible. Edler and Bieksa are horrible set-up men. These two have taken far more one-timers than Garrison when paired with him because he is better at placing his passes than they are. Both players are not good fits for Garrison's game, not sure what coaches or fans expect with these pairings but I imagine they will be disappointed if they expect Garrison to somehow overcome his partner's deficiencies to become an offensive force.
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#325 Gollumpus

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

Whats the time frame for the adjustment? Just wondering. Christian Ehrhoff, Dan Hamhius, had no issues adjusting to our system right away. Oh right, those are defencemens at a different level, I forgot that, despite being payed the same, he is not even at their level. I do however hope he snaps out of his slump.


Have you perhaps also forgotten about the lack of an actual training camp and pre-season games? Wouldn't the lack of these activities also hinder his adjustment, even if he spent some time skating with a few of his team mates out at UBC?

Or, you can just assume that Garrison isn't a very good d-man since you appear to have your heart set in that regard. :)

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 18 February 2013 - 09:38 PM.

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#326 surtur

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

I honestly have not seen any more issues with JG then with any other Dman on our team.
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#327 nizzy10

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:14 AM

Ok then, Garrison is being labeled with only 6 games played as a flop. Nice!

6 games ????
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#328 theminister

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:25 AM

This is ridiculous.
People saw that he had 16 goals last year and just assumed that he was going to be some sort of offensive juggernaut, when anybody who paid any attention would have known that would likely not be the case.
Garrison is a defensive defence man, a role he has played very well thus far, who has a booming shot from the point. So far it seems like he has been hesitant to let those shots go, but it's more than fair to attribute that to being in a new system, and trying to find a style of game that will allow him to be successful in that system. The fact that he has had very limited PP time, and has been playing his off side for much of that time isn't helping in that regard.
Put him on the PP one the right side and we would see a lot more of what he is capable of offensively.


There is a reason hasn't let loose his one-timer, the passes to him have been absolutely terrible. Edler and Bieksa are horrible set-up men. These two have taken far more one-timers than Garrison when paired with him because he is better at placing his passes than they are. Both players are not good fits for Garrison's game, not sure what coaches or fans expect with these pairings but I imagine they will be disappointed if they expect Garrison to somehow overcome his partner's deficiencies to become an offensive force.


Totally agree.

I also believe that AV is not as worried about the D pairings right now and how they match up compared to the fans.

As the Canucks like to have with their forward group, they want all of the D-men to have some experience playing with each other in case they may need to in the future because of injuries. The other members of the top 6 have all played together for awhile but Garrison is the sole new addition. I'm not surprised that they are trying him out all over the ice. What's surprising is that he has looked so good in stretches without the coaches giving him a defined role.

Like many others have said, he just isn't comfortable yet.

Edited by theminister, 19 February 2013 - 12:30 AM.

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#329 flapjacks

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

Terrible signing for a guy who had one good year. Defensively he's been very ugh. Only time I really notice him are when he fails to clear pucks from our zone and they get scoring chances off that.
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#330 oldnews

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:39 AM

Totally agree.

I also believe that AV is not as worried about the D pairings right now and how they match up compared to the fans.

As the Canucks like to have with their forward group, they want all of the D-men to have some experience playing with each other in case they may need to in the future because of injuries. The other members of the top 6 have all played together for awhile but Garrison is the sole new addition. I'm not surprised that they are trying him out all over the ice. What's surprising is that he has looked so good in stretches without the coaches giving him a defined role.

Like many others have said, he just isn't comfortable yet.


Was thinking pretty much the same thing - AV didn't really have much of a training camp to assess pairings, and Garrison was injured until just before the season started - AV is moving him around, getting him accustomed to playing with different guys early in the season when the entire league is somewhat inconsistent and rusty, and in the event he needs to change pairings down the road for some reason, at least Garrison will have wet his feet with different partners. I also agree that he has looked quite good in the roles he has played considering he hasn't really been in that position of being fed opportunities (it never surprises me to see people looking to write a player like this off based on so little). Garrison may be keyed on the pp as things settle in more, but I don't have a problem with how he has played, and the Canucks have enough guys who can contribute that they don't need to have high expectations of Garrison off the bat. One thing I am curious is why he hasn't been used on the right side as opposed to Edler having played so much right side to Campbell, but I imagine AV has his reasons.
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