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Jason Garrison so far?


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#511 tas

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:47 PM

the only area in which garrison isn't worse than alberts is offense, and in that area they're equal. alberts is better defensively, bigger, more physical, faster (seriously), and he's a right hand shot which the team desperately and obviously needs.

and the contract details speak for themselves.

if garrison isn't bought out in the offseason this team is doomed.
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#512 Lups

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:48 PM

the only area in which garrison isn't worse than alberts is offense, and in that area they're equal. alberts is better defensively, bigger, more physical, faster (seriously), and he's a right hand shot which the team desperately and obviously needs.

and the contract details speak for themselves.

if garrison isn't bought out in the offseason this team is doomed.


Alberts shoots left. And Id much rather have Garrison in the line-up instead of Alberts.
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#513 tas

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:24 PM

Alberts shoots left. And Id much rather have Garrison in the line-up instead of Alberts.


damn, you're right. you tore my troll apart at the seams.
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#514 Duodenum

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:32 PM

Garrisons "bad play" is being atrociously over-exaggerated.

People actually want to bench him, a guy who's had some of the best defensive stats in the league the last two years, a guy who has had 2-3 bad defensive games total so far, for Alberts or Barker.
Try figuring that out.
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#515 Bieksa's Quote

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

The Canucks have possibly two D men that can play better than mediocre defense, Hamhuis and Tanev.


I don't think Garrison is that bad defensively. He's not performing up to his standards yet but you have to give him more time to adjust. Plus a lot of our other blueliners are struggling immensely and we know they can be better too .. a lot of people on here are just using Garrison as a scapegoat when it's really a team game.

Besides, if there should be any scapegoat for this mess it should be coaching (Bowness in particular). After Bieksa went out we shuffled the D pairings that were already working just to make way for Alberts to slot in - stupid idea since instead of having 1 or 2 solid pairings and ending up with a 3rd mediocre pairing, you balance out the crap and throw out the good. The strategy of balancing out skill and ability might work for forward lines but usually it messes up chemistry on D so bad that the risks are borderline retarded at best.

I hope we don't see any of this experimenting in the playoffs, otherwise fire drills like the one we had tonight are going to mess up our cup hopes.
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#516 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

People actually want to bench him, a guy who's had some of the best defensive stats in the league the last two years, a guy who has had 2-3 bad defensive games total so far, for Alberts or Barker.
Try figuring that out.


I know, he has had a few bad games, but not as many as alot think, I have actually been impressed with his physical skill in handling players and defensive play, I also think he is much more mobile than some think.
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#517 Kack Zassian

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

I know, he has had a few bad games, but not as many as alot think, I have actually been impressed with his physical skill in handling players and defensive play, I also think he is much more mobile than some think.


This. Hes had a few mistakes here and there, but is playing responsible, good hockey.
The goals will come, and people will forget this thread ever existed.
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#518 UFTcan

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:16 PM

"Insert Sami Salo Belly laughing here"
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#519 riffraff

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

I know, he has had a few bad games, but not as many as alot think, I have actually been impressed with his physical skill in handling players and defensive play, I also think he is much more mobile than some think.


really? because i see him lose more puck battles than win. i dont see him boxing out guys very well. i dont see him battling or anticipating consistently...when i saw michael granlund out battle and strip the puck from garrison, go to the net and score the other night, well, really?...

right now his lack of mobility may be the biggest contributor to the above....hopefully its not a will thing...when he has the puck and is forced to make a play he seems to panic, also due to mobility issues. we saw this tonight on a brutal pass in the opp zone on the pp - the pass to nowhere.

i like the guy, and im hoping for the best, but im seeing a pricy signing here based on one good year...the salo non signing vs the garrison signing during a cup contention window is looking like a bit of a brain fart so far.
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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
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#520 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:04 PM

really? because i see him lose more puck battles than win. i dont see him boxing out guys very well. i dont see him battling or anticipating consistently...when i saw michael granlund out battle and strip the puck from garrison, go to the net and score the other night, well, really?...

right now his lack of mobility may be the biggest contributor to the above....hopefully its not a will thing...when he has the puck and is forced to make a play he seems to panic, also due to mobility issues. we saw this tonight on a brutal pass in the opp zone on the pp - the pass to nowhere.

i like the guy, and im hoping for the best, but im seeing a pricy signing here based on one good year...the salo non signing vs the garrison signing during a cup contention window is looking like a bit of a brain fart so far.


He has an active stick and is good at handling bodies and winning battles, I also think he isn't as slow as some people think he is.

Gotta remember he did have an injury too, and Ballard talked about how hard it was to come here right away off injury and it is probably the same for Garrison.
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#521 kanucks1

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

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He needs to play better. Plain and simple
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#522 elvis15

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:21 PM

Well, the more positive comments are starting to win against the tide, but I thought I'd add a little more to it to help the argument Garrison actually hasn't been bad. Didn't see this Canucks Army piece posted yet:

So there's good and bad news for the Canucks in the above table. The best news in my view? Alex Edler being the most positive defenseman from a possession stand-point, despite playing his off-side through fourteen games this season. While Edler's transition to the right-side hasn't been seamless, and he appears to be getting beat one-on-one with some degree of regularity, his performance through fourteen games still represents a big imporvement over what he provided the Canucks from a possession standpoint a season ago.

Another positive? Broken down in this manner, Jason Garrison's performance in the early going this season really doesn't look so bad. Obviously he's not worth 4.6 million per season unless he's successfully utilizing that big shot of his on the power-play, but so long as he's holding his own defensively at five-on-five he's a useful piece and an upgrade over Sami Salo (even if he's been arguably the single most disappointing free-agent acquisition in the entire league to begin the 2013 season).


Kevin Bieksa's struggles, on the other hand, are mystifying. The "Bieksa is only good in a contract year" blather is complete nonsense and the notion that he's lost in his own end without the steadying presence of Dan Hamhuisdoesn't really hold up under close scrutiny either, but Bieksa has definitely struggled to start this campaign. We can't even turn to the difficulty of his minutes as a qualifier here: so far this season Bieksa is starting the highest proportion of his shifts in the offensive end in three seasons, and he's facing the fourth toughest competition among Vancouver's six defenseman.

I encourage anyone who's even half way interested to go and read the article as there's a lot more there. Most important piece that I didn't copy over is a table outlining each D's performance to that date (was from Feb 21) and we don't come off as bad as it's appeared (Garrison or otherwise).

I've said it myself that Garrison hasn't been as bad as people here are trying to make out, and has in fact been reasonable adjusting to a new team. It didn't help having much of his offseason training (even with the lockout) limited by a nagging groin injury where he was only cleared from the injury list as of December.

The similarities to Ballard from a fan perspective are a little eerie. Player with a minor injury coming over that turns out to have a little more impact and doesn't immediately perform up to the contract and/or assets given to get them, making the deal look bad.

We're seeing now that Ballard can be effective (no offence still and not as good as some people are talking about on here) but his stats early on backed up the public opinion and perceived issues in his play that he hadn't been doing that well.

Garrison on the other hand has been productive in the area we had no question on, defence, even if he could still improve there and he's coming around offensively as well and looks like he will be worth at least a fair amount of that new deal this year alone.

Certainly the few who are so adamant he's been horrible for us are not necessarily more correct just by being the loudest (really? suggesting a buyout or even a trade to get rid off him already?) and we'll see that whatever you think of the people running this team, they're likely more correct - not by being the loudest but by virtue of being paid to do what they do and having had success doing so in the past.
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#523 D-Money

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

Garrison has been fine. Don't see why he's the target. Guess it's all expectations.

Once he gets accustomed to the team, not to mention catches up conditioning-wise after an offseason of rehab, he'll be even better.
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#524 Super_Canuck

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

Don't blame the player, blame the stupid GM. Garrison's signing was a typical dumbass MG move. Over-paid and over-hyped an average NHL player who had ONE good season. MG doesn't know how to make trades either or evaluate talent, just look at his record.

-Overpaid and traded a 1st round pick for Ballard while prospects like Howden and Kuznetsov were still on the board.
-gave up a 3rd round pick for that plug Alberts
-gave up on Hodgson who was his one decent draft pick because the guy wanted more playing time and got a 3rd line prospect in return. (could've easily solved the issue by moving Hodgson to second line centre and moving Kesler to the wing)
-named a goalie captain. LOL what a joke that was.

Those are just some of his stupid moves off the top of my head. The guy is showing he is incapable of solving the goalie issue which he himself created. He hasn't been able to add one single difference maker to the team since his arrival and no Hamhuis and Garrison are not difference makers. Whatever success this team has had recently is due the players who were brought in by the previous regime.

Edited by Super_Canuck, 25 February 2013 - 05:08 PM.

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#525 Kack Zassian

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

"Insert Sami Salo Belly laughing here"


Would you have given Salo that contract?
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#526 Kack Zassian

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

really? because i see him lose more puck battles than win. i dont see him boxing out guys very well. i dont see him battling or anticipating consistently...when i saw michael granlund out battle and strip the puck from garrison, go to the net and score the other night, well, really?...

right now his lack of mobility may be the biggest contributor to the above....hopefully its not a will thing...when he has the puck and is forced to make a play he seems to panic, also due to mobility issues. we saw this tonight on a brutal pass in the opp zone on the pp - the pass to nowhere.

i like the guy, and im hoping for the best, but im seeing a pricy signing here based on one good year...the salo non signing vs the garrison signing during a cup contention window is looking like a bit of a brain fart so far.


I wonder if the mobility issues have anything to do with his recovering groin injury.

And I take the Garrison contract > Salo contract every day of the week.
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#527 DeNiro

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

If it was just Garrison as a glaring weak spot, I would be worried.

But the fact that Hamhuis, Edler, and Bieksa have all been bad, to me just shows a lack of chemistry, and failure from the coaching staff to get these guys prepared.
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#528 marleau_12

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

Don't blame the player, blame the stupid GM. Garrison's signing was a typical dumbass MG move. Over-paid and over-hyped an average NHL player who had ONE good season. MG doesn't know how to make trades either or evaluate talent, just look at his record.

-Overpaid and traded a 1st round pick for Ballard while prospects like Howden and Kuznetsov were still on the board.
-gave up a 3rd round pick for that plug Alberts
-gave up on Hodgson who was his one decent draft pick because the guy wanted more playing time and got a 3rd line prospect in return. (could've easily solved the issue by moving Hodgson to second line centre and moving Kesler to the wing)
-named a goalie captain. LOL what a joke that was.

Those are just some of his stupid moves off the top of my head. The guy is showing he is incapable of solving the goalie issue which he himself created. He hasn't been able to add one single difference maker to the team since his arrival and no Hamhuis and Garrison are not difference makers. Whatever success this team has had recently is due the players who were brought in by the previous regime.

- Got Burrows to sign a 4 year, 8 million dollar deal
- Signing arguably our top defenseman Dan Hamhuis
- Offer sheeting David Backes, an awesome player, and now Blues captain
- Tanev, Laps, Higgins, Malhotra, Sundin, Samuelsson
- Trading for Ehrhoff
- GM of the year award
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#529 Kack Zassian

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

Don't blame the player, blame the stupid GM. Garrison's signing was a typical dumbass MG move. Over-paid and over-hyped an average NHL player who had ONE good season. MG doesn't know how to make trades either or evaluate talent, just look at his record.

-Overpaid and traded a 1st round pick for Ballard while prospects like Howden and Kuznetsov were still on the board.
-gave up a 3rd round pick for that plug Alberts
-gave up on Hodgson who was his one decent draft pick because the guy wanted more playing time and got a 3rd line prospect in return. (could've easily solved the issue by moving Hodgson to second line centre and moving Kesler to the wing)
-named a goalie captain. LOL what a joke that was.

Those are just some of his stupid moves off the top of my head. The guy is showing he is incapable of solving the goalie issue which he himself created. He hasn't been able to add one single difference maker to the team since his arrival and no Hamhuis and Garrison are not difference makers. Whatever success this team has had recently is due the players who were brought in by the previous regime.


- What has Quinton Howden done to make the Ballard trade look bad?

- Its a 3rd round pick... a late 3rd rounder at that...

- Not even going to open the can of worms, but if you call Zack Kassian a 3rd line prospect... it speaks a great deal about your hockey knowledge..

Off the top of my head, players he brought in (either through free agency or strong trading)
- Malhotra, Hamhuis, Garrison, Tanev, Torres, Samuelsson,

- Ehrhoff, Higgins, Lapierre, Booth, Pahlsson

But yeah lets totally ignore his good moves..
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#530 Super_Canuck

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:44 PM

- Got Burrows to sign a 4 year, 8 million dollar deal
- Signing arguably our top defenseman Dan Hamhuis
- Offer sheeting David Backes, an awesome player, and now Blues captain
- Tanev, Laps, Higgins, Malhotra, Sundin, Samuelsson
- Trading for Ehrhoff
- GM of the year award


-The Burrows deal had a lot to do with what type of a guy Alex is. He is loyal to the franchise since it was the only franchise to give him a chance. That deal had more to do with the character of Burrows then the negotiating ability to MG. So credit goes to Burr cause he could've walked away and gotten more money elsewhere

-Yes Dan is a very good dman, but again, he got market value and he wanted to come here and be closer to home. If you remember, he refused offers from Nashville for similar money and then had his rights traded to Philly and again refused Philly's offer aswell.

-And how did offer sheeting David Backes benefit this franchise in anyway? Did we get him? NO! In return, the Blues made an offer sheet to Steve Bernier just to stick to Gillis. MG matched and ended up over-paying him.

-I give you the Tanev signing, but again is he difference maker who can put us over the top? No and neither are/were players like Laps, Malhotra, Higgins and Samuelsson. They were just role players. As for sundin, he only came here reluctantly after contemplating retirement for 5 months. Our offer to him was by far and away the best offer he had on the table. So he came, collected the big money, did next to nothing and took off.

-Trading for Ehrhoff was a good moves yes. Again, SJ was just looking to dump salary so they could add Heatly. They pretty much gave away Ehrhoff.

-GM of the year award for winning the Presiden't trophy and going to the Final on the backs of a core that was brought in by the previous regime. IMO, that award was bogus.
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#531 elvis15

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:53 PM

Don't blame the player, blame the stupid GM. Garrison's signing was a typical dumbass MG move. Over-paid and over-hyped an average NHL player who had ONE good season. MG doesn't know how to make trades either or evaluate talent, just look at his record.

-Overpaid and traded a 1st round pick for Ballard while prospects like Howden and Kuznetsov were still on the board.
-gave up a 3rd round pick for that plug Alberts
-gave up on Hodgson who was his one decent draft pick because the guy wanted more playing time and got a 3rd line prospect in return. (could've easily solved the issue by moving Hodgson to second line centre and moving Kesler to the wing)
-named a goalie captain. LOL what a joke that was.

Those are just some of his stupid moves off the top of my head. The guy is showing he is incapable of solving the goalie issue which he himself created. He hasn't been able to add one single difference maker to the team since his arrival and no Hamhuis and Garrison are not difference makers. Whatever success this team has had recently is due the players who were brought in by the previous regime.

That's some great 'evidence' there.

- Howden's not bad but not amazing and Kuznetsov is still playing in Russia so that was a risk if he would come over, we've been over and over the Ballard deal again and again so no need to rehash it here
- Alberts has been a good depth guy for us, and since we didn't have anyone else a 3rd was hardly a major loss
- More clear, logical reasoning I see, since Kassian has been just fine and Hodgson (or more to the point, his agent and father) pushed for the increased role despite Sedin and Kesler being our top 2 centers
- It's been done before, and no reason it 100% couldn't work again but was definitely unorthodox

But I guess there has to be people who are reactionary and don't provide anything other than their subjective opinion. I'm even less surprised when Gillis' accomplishments are ignored when factoring all that in. Off the top of my head:

- Higgins from Florida
- Lappy from Anaheim
- David Booth for an ageing Samuelsson and Sturm
- Ehrhoff for White and Rahimi
- Hamhuis as a UFA
- Garrison as a UFA
- Tanev as an undrafted find
- Lack as an undrafted find
- Corrado as a late round pick

That excludes the obvious "surprised they went so low" 1st rounders in Jensen, Gaunce and Schroeder the team has picked up (and yes, that includes drafting Hodgson too) and what he's done to try and develop a culture around the Canucks making it a place the players want to come to. Also the players who were here already but he re-signed, the bold move of going after Sundin, bringing in Malhotra and Samuelsson when they were productive, etc, etc.

EDIT: got a kick out of your comment about how the GM of the year award he got was bogus in your opinion. I guess I'll leave it to all the other hockey professionals to screw up somethins as badly as you think Gillis has been doing for some time now.

But we're off topic from Garrison. Care to comment on the article I posted earlier what the stats and observations related to those stats show, and why you continue to disagree with them?

Edited by elvis15, 25 February 2013 - 06:06 PM.

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#532 Super_Canuck

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

- What has Quinton Howden done to make the Ballard trade look bad?

- Its a 3rd round pick... a late 3rd rounder at that...

- Not even going to open the can of worms, but if you call Zack Kassian a 3rd line prospect... it speaks a great deal about your hockey knowledge..

Off the top of my head, players he brought in (either through free agency or strong trading)
- Malhotra, Hamhuis, Garrison, Tanev, Torres, Samuelsson,

- Ehrhoff, Higgins, Lapierre, Booth, Pahlsson

But yeah lets totally ignore his good moves..


Quinton Howden is an excellent young PROSPECT, he will be good and so will be Kuznetsov who you ignored to mention. Now you asked what had Howden done? Now pls tell me what exactly has Ballard done the last 2 years? other then collect his big fat pay cheque.


3rd round pick for Alberts, a depth dman?? How often does that guy even play? He's not even a top 6 dman.

All of the guys you mentioned who were acquired by MG other then Hamhuis and Ehrhoff are role players, not differnce makers who can out you over the top.

And it's funny you question my hockey knowledge and yet you mention Sammy fricken Pahlsson as a stand out MG acquisition (I'm assuming you thought he was great since you mentioned him) REALLY?! And since your hockey knowledge must be so great, Pls enlighten me as to what contributions Pahlsson made for us last year, having only been here for 2 months, if that? 'Cause I certainly never noticed him. And where exactly is he now?? That's right, not even in the NHL.

So before you question my hockey knowledge, stop drinking the MG cool-aid and open your eyes. The guy was a scum-bag agent and some GM's still don't like dealing with him.

Edited by Super_Canuck, 25 February 2013 - 11:13 PM.

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#533 nuck nit

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

- Got Burrows to sign a 4 year, 8 million dollar deal
- Signing arguably our top defenseman Dan Hamhuis
- Offer sheeting David Backes, an awesome player, and now Blues captain
- Tanev, Laps, Higgins, Malhotra, Sundin, Samuelsson
- Trading for Ehrhoff
- GM of the year award

I will play along:
Burrows-hosed for years.Heart N Soul of this team.
Hamhuis wanted to sign here.
Did not secure Backes.
Tanev was not Gillis,Samulesson has said it all.Sundin was a joke.Higgins and Lappy are role players.
Ehrhoff was the one he signed that was given away and he failed to recognise his greatness when all was said and done.
GM of the year award should sit in Luo's basement.

Garrison is not a bust.
He is Mitchell 2 ,aspiring to become Bieksa 2.
He is not in the league of offensive calibre of Salo and is not ever going to be.
He was secured for his excellent defensive game but is definitely in the overpaid department.
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#534 Super_Canuck

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

I will play along:
Burrows-hosed for years.Heart N Soul of this team.
Hamhuis wanted to sign here.
Did not secure Backes.
Tanev was not Gillis,Samulesson has said it all.Sundin was a joke.Higgins and Lappy are role players.
Ehrhoff was the one he signed that was given away and he failed to recognise his greatness when all was said and done.
GM of the year award should sit in Luo's basement.

Garrison is not a bust.
He is Mitchell 2 ,aspiring to become Bieksa 2.
He is not in the league of offensive calibre of Salo and is not ever going to be.
He was secured for his excellent defensive game but is definitely in the overpaid department.


Thank you! Exactly my point
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#535 DeNiro

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

I will play along:
Burrows-hosed for years.Heart N Soul of this team.
Hamhuis wanted to sign here.
Did not secure Backes.
Tanev was not Gillis,Samulesson has said it all.Sundin was a joke.Higgins and Lappy are role players.
Ehrhoff was the one he signed that was given away and he failed to recognise his greatness when all was said and done.
GM of the year award should sit in Luo's basement.

Garrison is not a bust.
He is Mitchell 2 ,aspiring to become Bieksa 2.
He is not in the league of offensive calibre of Salo and is not ever going to be.
He was secured for his excellent defensive game but is definitely in the overpaid department.


Don't give him credit for good moves.

Blame him for any moves that look bad in hindsight.

Gotcha.
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#536 Super_Canuck

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

.

Edited by Super_Canuck, 25 February 2013 - 06:08 PM.

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#537 needtogetswole

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

just thought i'd throw this out there GARRISON was... even .. that last game against detroit .. while our not overpaid defedners were -2 n on.
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#538 elvis15

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:25 PM

Don't give him credit for good moves.

Blame him for any moves that look bad in hindsight.

Gotcha.

I particularly liked how he over-exaggerated how far apart Garrison and Salo's offensive ability is, particularly at this point in their careers.

I bet he didn't realize Salo has only had two seasons above 30 points (3 if you include 30), one of 33 and one of 37. The 37 point season was almost 6 years ago, and he's averaged about 25 points since then. Garrison has only 3 seasons under his belt, and a progression of 8, 18 and 33 points, so he's already tied Salo's second best ever season and is likely to have about the average season points similar to what Salo has ever since his career year.

Are they the same player? Clearly not, but both have big shots and Garrison is younger, and more physical that Salo ever was, so he brings a different element while providing similar offence, all while being more reliable in both minutes and games played than Salo at this point in their careers.
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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#539 Kack Zassian

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

Quinton Howden is an excellent young PROSPECT, he will be good and so will be Kuznetsov who you ignored to mention. Now you asked what had Howden done? What has Ballard done the last 2 years? other then collect his big fat pay cheque.

3rd round pick for Alberts, a depth dman?? How often does that guy even play? He's not even a top 6 dman.

All of the guys you mentioned who were acquired by MG other then Hamhuis and Ehrhoff are role players, not differnce makers who can out you over the top.

And it's funny you question my hockey knowledge and yet you mention Sammy fricken Pahlsson as a stand out MG acquisition (I'm assuming you thought he was great since you mentioned him) REALLY?! And since your hockey knowledge must be so great, Pls enlighten me as to what contributions Pahlsson made for us last year, having only been here for 2 months, if that? 'Cause certainly never noticed him. And where exactly is he now?? That's right, not even in the NHL.

So before you question my hockey knowledge, stop drinking the MG cool-aid and open your eyes. The guy was a scum-bag agent and some GM's still don't like dealing with him.


- I wouldn't exactly consider Howden a blue-chip prospect. Kuznetsov, has exploded since being drafted... but hindsight is 20/20.
Im not saying this was a trade I particularly liked... but we really didn't sacrifice any outrageous pieces.

- At the time, Alberts was a depth rental (pretty standard pricing). He looked good as a #7 guy so hes still on the team.
Again, this was the 85th overall pick (Austin Levi). Don't know why your complaining.

- Pahlsson was a good bottom 6 rental. Nothing more, nothing less.
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#540 UFTcan

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:49 PM

Would you have given Salo that contract?



3.75M/Y for 2 years, compared to 4.6M/Y over 6 years?

Yes I would of signed Salo to that contract he was our best D man, We always overlook our own players but overpay some florida slug like Ballard or Garrison to insane unjustified money.
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