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Jason Garrison so far?


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#571 37yrsncounting

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

Couldn't have been on for 4 against. The boxscore indicates that he was "0" for the game. If the Canucks only scored 3 goals then the most that Garrison could have been on for is 3.

Not disputing that he had a bad game (like a lot of other guys), just pointing out an inaccuracy. :)

regards,
G.


correct me if im wrong, but plus minus don't include specialty team plays unless its a shorthanded goal so really Garrison could have been on for 6 goals

Edited by 36yrsncounting, 26 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

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#572 Nevlach

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:27 PM

Couldn't have been on for 4 against. The boxscore indicates that he was "0" for the game. If the Canucks only scored 3 goals then the most that Garrison could have been on for is 3.

Not disputing that he had a bad game (like a lot of other guys), just pointing out an inaccuracy. :)

regards,
G.

2 Detroit PP goals = 0
2 Detroit goals = -2
2 Canucks goals = +2

Net = 0
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#573 Kack Zassian

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

The guy's not fitting into our system. Give him until the trade deadline and if he doesn't fit in, trade him. Easy as that.


Way to write someone off after a sub 20 game sample.

But lets just ignore that hes been a positive possession player, and posing positive fenwick numbers.
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#574 elvis15

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:49 PM

Umm he didn't contribute anything to either goal.

And he got caught flat footed on the Tootoo goal, stopped moving his feet and just reached in. All Ballard did was have the puck bounce in off his backside and from that angle yes Ballard should be in the slot because a Detroit player was there...it's called covering your man. Right play, bad bounce. Why blame Luongo at all for that he likely didn't have a chance with such a fluke deflection. It wasn't Garrison's worst play of the game by any means - as you say he did keep Tootoo to the outside...nevertheless if he had kept moving his feet Tootoo wouldn't have got around him and gotten a shot so easily.

You're pretty sure of yourself for not reading the rest of my argument. Garrison did not have a good game. If you think I'm wrong explain why he had a great game. I'm interested to know how someone can be on the ice for 4 goals a game and have it considered one of his good games...

Did I say he had a good game? No one on the team really had a good game, but hat should be obvious in a 8-3 loss. You haven't read my posts, just like you didn't read the recent posts before your original comment.

What I have been saying all along is Garrison is not that bad at all, especially when people are lauding Ballard with praise despite him not being quite that fantastic to warrant it. The whole D have been bad at times. Garrison has been better defensively than people give him credit for and his offence (what offence people should expect from him, not offence equalling what he put up last year, particularly goals) will come as he gets used to the team.

Back to the Tootoo goal, he didn't get around Garrison and he didn't have an easy shot. Since when is it a bad play to allow a weak shot from the outside edge of the ice down closer to the goal line? Those are shots teams are happy to let through in the hopes they get possession and can clear the zone. It's better than trying to force a block or rush the player and potentially let him inside you for a much improved scoring chance. Those are shots you get out of the way of, unlike Ballard when he tipped one of the later goals on a shot from inside the blue line as the puck was still being moved up ice.

As far as what Ballard and Luongo should have done on the Tootoo goal, that was sarcasm in response to you expecting Garrison to do more on a play he handled pretty well. Ballard and Luongo shouldn't have been expected to do any more on that goal than what they did, and about all you could expect Garrison to do more on would be to have body checked Tootoo as he entered the zone. Hardly an error to make the safe play and keep him outside, expecting a weak shot (which it was) and an easy save (which it wasn't after a fluke deflection).

I really hate to keep using Ballard in my examples, since I think he has been good this year, but people keep saying he's been our best D-man (or one of our best) and Garrison has been so bad. In reality they aren't very far apart in performance. It may even be reversed slightly, considering Garrison has better points and +/- (along with other stats I detailed earlier), all against better opponents.

Edited by elvis15, 26 February 2013 - 04:00 PM.

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#575 nuck nit

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:09 PM

Garrison= Willie Mitchell
Flat footed Canadians adept at clearing the net and swinging effectively with a long tree branch.Defensive stalwarts but not counted on for a smooth first pass out or scoring.

Salo = Jyrke Lumme
Smooth skating Europeans that transition the play seamlessly,continuously creating offense while being responsible at both ends. Coveted D men.
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#576 Nevlach

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

Did I say he had a good game? No one on the team really had a good game, but hat should be obvious in a 8-3 loss. You haven't read my posts, just like you didn't read the recent posts before your original comment.

What I have been saying all along is Garrison is not that bad at all, especially when people are lauding Ballard with praise despite him not being quite that fantastic to warrant it. The whole D have been bad at times. Garrison has been better defensively than people give him credit for and his offence (what offence people should expect from him, not offence equalling what he put up last year, particularly goals) will come as he gets used to the team.

Back to the Tootoo goal, he didn't get around Garrison and he didn't have an easy shot. Since when is it a bad play to allow a weak shot from the outside edge of the ice down closer to the goal line? Those are shots teams are happy to let through in the hopes they get possession and can clear the zone. It's better than trying to force a block or rush the player and potentially let him inside you for a much improved scoring chance. Those are shots you get out of the way of, unlike Ballard when he tipped one of the later goals on a shot from inside the blue line as the puck was still being moved up ice.

As far as what Ballard and Luongo should have done on the Tootoo goal, that was sarcasm in response to you expecting Garrison to do more on a play he handled pretty well. Ballard and Luongo shouldn't have been expected to do any more on that goal than what they did, and about all you could expect Garrison to do more on would be to have body checked Tootoo as he entered the zone. Hardly an error to make the safe play and keep him outside, expecting a weak shot (which it was) and an easy save (which it wasn't after a fluke deflection).

I really hate to keep using Ballard in my examples, since I think he has been good this year, but people keep saying he's been our best D-man (or one of our best) and Garrison has been so bad. In reality they aren't very far apart in performance. It may even be reversed slightly, considering Garrison has better points and +/- (along with other stats I detailed earlier), all against better opponents.

I haven't noticed people saying Ballard has been much better than Garrison, but then again I haven't been on CDC in awhile. That surprises me to hear that though.

I never said Garrison made a bad play on the fluke goal, only that he was on the ice, and he got caught flat footed when he should have been able to take Tootoo out along the boards and keep pressuring him he stopped moving his feet and had to settle for reaching.

In anycase I just hope this isn't the best we see of him. He has potential and I hope he fulfills it.
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#577 Jägermeister

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:55 PM

Garrison= Willie Mitchell
Flat footed Canadians adept at clearing the net and swinging effectively with a long tree branch.Defensive stalwarts but not counted on for a smooth first pass out or scoring.

Salo = Jyrki Lumme
Smooth skating Europeans that transition the play seamlessly,continuously creating offense while being responsible at both ends. Coveted D men.


Both of those comparisons are poor.
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#578 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:37 PM

Both of those comparisons are poor.

That's being kind. I was thinking along the lines of abysmal...
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#579 elvis15

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:48 PM

I haven't noticed people saying Ballard has been much better than Garrison, but then again I haven't been on CDC in awhile. That surprises me to hear that though.

I never said Garrison made a bad play on the fluke goal, only that he was on the ice, and he got caught flat footed when he should have been able to take Tootoo out along the boards and keep pressuring him he stopped moving his feet and had to settle for reaching.

In anycase I just hope this isn't the best we see of him. He has potential and I hope he fulfills it.

Like I said, you should scan through some of this thread. It's the new thing this year that Ballard is finally great but Garrison is the new whipping boy.

You're probably trying to present a more measured response to how he's been, but there have been plenty saying he'd be a candidate for a buyout or we should trade him or he's been a disaster. You're early posts meshed with that group of people not doing a good job of evaluating players, but you've been more reasonable since.

We can both agree we'd like to see more of him, and I'm optimistic that it'll happen versus some of the others around here.

Both of those comparisons are poor.

The Mitchell one has some merit, but Lumme and Salo?! Geez that's horrible.

Edited by elvis15, 26 February 2013 - 06:52 PM.

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#580 Gollumpus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 06:57 PM

correct me if im wrong, but plus minus don't include specialty team plays unless its a shorthanded goal so really Garrison could have been on for 6 goals


2 Detroit PP goals = 0
2 Detroit goals = -2
2 Canucks goals = +2

Net = 0


Oh you guys and your annoying facts and rules and stuff.



But at the end of the game, he was still even. So there.

regards,
G.
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#581 nuck nit

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

That's being kind. I was thinking along the lines of abysmal...


Yeah,and so is this year's d corps.
No Sami and suck it up,kiddies.
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#582 Nevlach

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:47 PM

We can both agree we'd like to see more of him, and I'm optimistic that it'll happen versus some of the others around here.

For sure.
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#583 Jägermeister

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:49 PM

Yeah,and so is this year's d corps.
No Sami and suck it up,kiddies.


You're not even a fun troll.
At least King of the ES was fun.
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#584 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

Did I say he had a good game? No one on the team really had a good game, but hat should be obvious in a 8-3 loss. You haven't read my posts, just like you didn't read the recent posts before your original comment.

What I have been saying all along is Garrison is not that bad at all, especially when people are lauding Ballard with praise despite him not being quite that fantastic to warrant it. The whole D have been bad at times. Garrison has been better defensively than people give him credit for and his offence (what offence people should expect from him, not offence equalling what he put up last year, particularly goals) will come as he gets used to the team.

Back to the Tootoo goal, he didn't get around Garrison and he didn't have an easy shot. Since when is it a bad play to allow a weak shot from the outside edge of the ice down closer to the goal line? Those are shots teams are happy to let through in the hopes they get possession and can clear the zone. It's better than trying to force a block or rush the player and potentially let him inside you for a much improved scoring chance. Those are shots you get out of the way of, unlike Ballard when he tipped one of the later goals on a shot from inside the blue line as the puck was still being moved up ice.

As far as what Ballard and Luongo should have done on the Tootoo goal, that was sarcasm in response to you expecting Garrison to do more on a play he handled pretty well. Ballard and Luongo shouldn't have been expected to do any more on that goal than what they did, and about all you could expect Garrison to do more on would be to have body checked Tootoo as he entered the zone. Hardly an error to make the safe play and keep him outside, expecting a weak shot (which it was) and an easy save (which it wasn't after a fluke deflection).

I really hate to keep using Ballard in my examples, since I think he has been good this year, but people keep saying he's been our best D-man (or one of our best) and Garrison has been so bad. In reality they aren't very far apart in performance. It may even be reversed slightly, considering Garrison has better points and +/- (along with other stats I detailed earlier), all against better opponents.


How does tearing Ballard down raise Garrison up exactly? And again, not everything can be put neatly into a stat to be tracked.
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#585 gaydar

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

Oh you guys and your annoying facts and rules and stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBiZgE9-FYc

But at the end of the game, he was still even. So there.

regards,
G.


Even and absolutely atrocious defensively on at least 3 of Detroit's goals.

I know +/- is a difficult stat to comprehend, once again a simple concept goes over your head. Maybe try standing up while watching the game.
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#586 Understand

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:29 PM

Disappointment. One word to describe Garrison.
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#587 kilgore

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

edit...oops wrong thread...

Edited by kilgore, 26 February 2013 - 09:04 PM.

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#588 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:26 PM

Good going, OP.
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#589 UFTcan

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

oh god he scored, here it comes..
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#590 elvis15

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:31 PM

How does tearing Ballard down raise Garrison up exactly? And again, not everything can be put neatly into a stat to be tracked.

I'm not sure where you get that from, nor where you're getting that I'm only looking at stats to draw conclusions. Just because I mention stats once at the end of a post doesn't mean that's all the post was based on.

I've said both that Garrison wasn't good last game, and that Ballard has been good this year. I also used the two as examples in how they both made mistakes last game but that also things that happened to result in goals also can't be pinned on them either.
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#591 WonderTwinPowers

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:34 PM

Disappointment. One word to describe Garrison.


Or yourself either way
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#592 gaydar

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:39 PM

Or yourself either way


Hey, that's not nice.
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#593 Gollumpus

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

Even and absolutely atrocious defensively on at least 3 of Detroit's goals.


Yup, so this one game makes Garrison a terrible signing? Your comments do nothing to support your position. You cherry pick one game, and base an analysis of an entire season which isn't even half over, on that one result.


I know +/- is a difficult stat to comprehend,


It's nice to see that you acknowledge your short comings in the area of comprehending how the +/- stat can be a misleading figure.

The results of the Detroit game do not change the analysis in my previous posts. Salo being on a higher scoring team gives him a much better chance at having a higher +/- stat, while Garrison being on an under-achieving offensive team will have a better chance at having a lower +/-. Further, Garrison's contribution to the Canucks looks to be paying off in higher team results, rather than Salo's higher offensive contribution is paying off for TB.

Let's try another +/- stat. Vancouver Canucks are +6. TB is 0. The Canucks also look to be in a much better position to improve on their +/- stat with the return of Kesler and Booth, and with Garrison and other Canucks starting to pick up theri scoring.


Maybe try standing up while watching the game.


I always stand while watching Canucks games. It helps me get a head start jumping on or off the band-wagon as it goes by...


regards,
G.
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#594 The Dark Knight

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:52 PM

still atrocious on d tonight but atleast he scored another goal
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#595 Duodenum

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

One of his better games so far this season. 5 shots, 1 goal. Earns himself the 2nd star of the game.
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#596 theminister

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:25 AM

Garrison Magic Number: 15
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#597 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:26 AM

Credit where credit is due. He scored a goal.

Still, more is expected in terms of offense.
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#598 Kassian's Face

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

Credit where credit is due. He scored a goal.

Still, more is expected in terms of offense.


lol you won't be happy even if he was our number 1 goal scorer.

By the way he is tied for 8th on our team for goals scored.

He is tied for 4th for +/-.

But his moneyball numbers suck.

Edited by Kassian's Face, 27 February 2013 - 09:30 AM.

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#599 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:57 AM

Garrison= Willie Mitchell
Flat footed Canadians adept at clearing the net and swinging effectively with a long tree branch.Defensive stalwarts but not counted on for a smooth first pass out or scoring.

Salo = Jyrke Lumme
Smooth skating Europeans that transition the play seamlessly,continuously creating offense while being responsible at both ends. Coveted D men.


You act as if we traded Salo for Garrison.
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#600 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:59 AM

Even and absolutely atrocious defensively on at least 3 of Detroit's goals.

I know +/- is a difficult stat to comprehend, once again a simple concept goes over your head. Maybe try standing up while watching the game.

You really just have very little clue what you're talking about don't you?
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