There is a trend here...........and not a good one.

[Bodee]

If this were soccer I would agree that AV should carry the can but the Canuck line up is devised primarily by a tandem........more if you include assistants and scouts..........but in the main the team is supplied by MG and coached by AV

Well how has MG helped AV recently? (since the SC)

He has traded Hodgson (and let's not forget Sultzer, someone who never got a real chance) for Kassian and someone (Gragnani) AV/MG threw away after spending the "pre playoff games" messing up the defence trying him out.

Kassian will be good, I have no doubt about that and maybe the moving of Hodgson was forced on MG. That said he should have devised a package that got something "hot" for the pending campaign. He didn't. As for Pahalsson......more mediocrity.

He ditched Rome and Salo while taking on 2 "hummers" for the Wolves and keeping nice guy Alberts. I'm sorry I love nice guys but only if they are performing. Rome was a very physical, underrated player and boy we could have used him now. Salo was ditched because he "had a history of injuries" in an injury inclined team......big deal! He was still a huge influence on our D, very strong and with a proven lethal snapshot.

He brings in Garrison after one half decent season and awards him the "kingdom" putting him up alongside players like Bieksa and Hamhuis.........who have actually proved they have got what it takes. The much vaunted canon on this guy is in need of sending back to the factory or he needs an appointment with an optician. True it is early days but the guy is an expensive gamble......again.

Sammy and Sturm, he decided were surplus, fair enough. However again he builds a trade that means we are gambling. I mean if Sammy was good enough to get the deal he has with Detroit only last year it makes me think we undervalued him.

Sturm was another Gilis "project ( Mike Gillis acknowledged the risk in signing Sturm, given his two knee surgeries in the past three years) a damned expensive one at $2.5m.........in short another blunder.

This blunder was then "knocked on" by taking yet another overpriced "project" David Booth. Booth is a trier, no doubt, goes to the net and all the other cliches but he is NOT a fit, nor does he have the impact, certainly not, at that price, we needed..........Oh and we lumbered the Aquilnis with the expensive Reinprecht as part of the deal.

Anyone seeing a trend here yet? Mediocrity and projects when what our team needed was bold imaginative moves to enhance our SC prospects. Add to that our less than sterling draft performances.

Hell we could have had draft picks for all the rubbish above and been better placed with a couple of UFAs than we are now.

So you see AV has had f---all help and arguably hinderance from big Mike since dragging his battered and battle weary squad to game 7 in 2011.

[Riviera82]

I agree to an extent. Gillis hasn't really done this team any favors for a while, but to absolve AV of all blame for the Canucks supposed shortcomings doesn't seem right.

Your final comment didn't make a lot of sense to me. "AV dragged this team to Game 7 of the SCF"? Did I gather that correctly?

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

If this were soccer I would agree that AV should carry the can but the Canuck line up is devised primarily by a tandem........more if you include assistants and scouts..........but in the main the team is supplied by MG and coached by AV

Well how has MG helped AV recently? (since the SC)

He has traded Hodgson (and let's not forget Sultzer, someone who never got a real chance) for Kassian and someone (Gragnani) AV/MG threw away after spending the "pre playoff games" messing up the defence trying him out.

Kassian will be good, I have no doubt about that and maybe the moving of Hodgson was forced on MG. That said he should have devised a package that got something "hot" for the pending campaign. He didn't. As for Pahalsson......more mediocrity.

He ditched Rome and Salo while taking on 2 "hummers" for the Wolves and keeping nice guy Alberts. I'm sorry I love nice guys but only if they are performing. Rome was a very physical, underrated player and boy we could have used him now. Salo was ditched because he "had a history of injuries" in an injury inclined team......big deal! He was still a huge influence on our D, very strong and with a proven lethal snapshot.

He brings in Garrison after one half decent season and awards him the "kingdom" putting him up alongside players like Bieksa and Hamhuis.........who have actually proved they have got what it takes. The much vaunted canon on this guy is in need of sending back to the factory or he needs an appointment with an optician. True it is early days but the guy is an expensive gamble......again.

Sammy and Sturm, he decided were surplus, fair enough. However again he builds a trade that means we are gambling. I mean if Sammy was good enough to get the deal he has with Detroit only last year it makes me think we undervalued him.

Sturm was another Gilis "project ( Mike Gillis acknowledged the risk in signing Sturm, given his two knee surgeries in the past three years) a damned expensive one at $2.5m.........in short another blunder.

This blunder was then "knocked on" by taking yet another overpriced "project" David Booth. Booth is a trier, no doubt, goes to the net and all the other cliches but he is NOT a fit, nor does he have the impact, certainly not, at that price, we needed..........Oh and we lumbered the Aquilnis with the expensive Reinprecht as part of the deal.

Anyone seeing a trend here yet? Mediocrity and projects when what our team needed was bold imaginative moves to enhance our SC prospects. Add to that our less than sterling draft performances.

Hell we could have had draft picks for all the rubbish above and been better placed with a couple of UFAs than we are now.

So you see AV has had f---all help and arguably hinderance from big Mike since dragging his battered and battle weary squad to game 7 in 2011.

[CityinFlames]

Who cares about Hodgson he's terrible at playing the defensive side of the game; Kassian is a more useful player then Hodgson is since he can score and play defence. Also Hodgson didn't want to play here since we weren't on our knees praising his mightiness.

No clue why Sulzer was mention since he's a nobody.

Garrison will need time to fit into the western style.

Samuelsson is now on a decline not sure if he has anything left in the tank; Salo isn't worth the money with his resume of injuries the dude lost a nut he's the equivalent to bad luck Brian; Sturm was a waste of money to begin with and good riddance to that waste.

I think Mike Gillis has done a great job; people cried for the Canucks to go big in the free agency so we went for Matt Sundin, people cried for a top 6 forward so we went and got David Booth for basically nothing.

and let's not forget the amount of money he has spent on resigning our top core guys, he has signed guys well below their value on the open market.

Where the Canucks are isn't bad, and Mike Gillis is doing a heck of a job in keeping the team together and drafting for the future.

[-DLC-]

"He should have devised a package that got something "hot" for the pending campaign"...the problem with this is that you can devise all the packages you want, but someone has to accept them at the other end. "Hot" commodities just aren't that easy to acquire (because 29 or so teams are generally interested in those players). It's not like we haven't been in the thick of things, so they haven't missed the mark by much. You don't want to start disassembling a top team in order to tweak a few parts and, often, that's what is required to secure the players you're suggesting. So MG's tried to tweak by keeping his core in place because that's been a pretty sure thing. This chess game requires patience and you don't make bold, brash moves unless they make sense from all angles - not just in the receiving end.

[Bodee]

I don't even know where to begin with this...

Firstly, where is this "trend"?

Yes, he traded Hodgson for Kassian. Hodgson didn't want to be here and by trading him he acquired something our lineup has needed for years. Kassian also has the potential to develop into something special. Power forwards don't grow on trees. As for Sulzer, he'd been a depth player his whole career. Who knows if he'll have a good season this year? Gragnani was a risk that didn't work out. Big deal. We're no worse off because of it.

Salo is not worth the contract he got in Tampa Bay. MG signed Garrison, who was younger and just as effective. A player needs time to adjust to a new team. Hell, were you not the one complaining about a lack of a preseason and the fact that the players were out of condition yesterday? Sometimes a player makes an instant impact when he joins a new team. Sometimes they don't. Garrison will be fine. He just needs time.

Samuelsson was getting old and is on the decline. He had a decent contract but the trade for Booth was worth it. Booth is still relatively young, and due to injuries hasn't really had a chance to prove himself. I'm convinced he'll still turn out to be an important part of this team. You were willing to give Mason Raymond all the time in the world, even during his horrendous run of form last season. Yet you have no patience with Booth? Much like AV, you have your favourites as well as players you just don't like (as well as your constant criticism of MG).

Give him some time. See what happens at the deadline. The General Manager job isn't an easy one. This isn't NHL 13.

[riffraff]

Kind of agree on booth as the guy seems injury prone.....maybe he needs some antler extract.

The garrison deal needs more time to play out....I thought he would be more prepared to start the season and his and his start here would be a bit more seamless....kind of tough timing for this deal...I'd rather salo here for one more year especially a shortened year to eliminate an unknown....it's obvious our d core misses salo right now....garrison for next year but that's the way she rolls.

If kassian keeps up at even half the pace we are far better off with him than with hodgson who again:

Wanted a trade.

Would never get top six center minutes any time soon.

At this point discussing the CoKass deal is equal to smashing your head into a wall. It's done. Deal with it.

[Bodee]

"He should have devised a package that got something "hot" for the pending campaign"...the problem with this is that you can devise all the packages you want, but someone has to accept them at the other end. "Hot" commodities just aren't that easy to acquire (because 29 or so teams are generally interested in those players). It's not like we haven't been in the thick of things, so they haven't missed the mark by much. You don't want to start disassembling a top team in order to tweak a few parts and, often, that's what is required to secure the players you're suggesting. So MG's tried to tweak by keeping his core in place because that's been a pretty sure thing. This chess game requires patience and you don't make bold, brash moves unless they make sense from all angles - not just in the receiving end.

[klosetotheheart]

If you can't see a trend then I doubt there is hope for you. I couldn't be more explicit.

I said Hodgson may have been excusable, so we agree. As for Kassian, you say "he has potential) again you agree. However he hasn't answered the need, and won't for another 2 seasons imo. Sulzer at least had potential to play in the NHL..............but Gragnani and the 2 plugs we sent to the Wolves? So where's your point. We are worse off with the departure of Salo AND Rome AND Ehrhoff.........we get Garrison.

Salo would not have asked for the contract he got in Tampa (opinion based on other players)............but in fact his loss to our team almost says he IS worth what he is getting, given his impact there. I see no correlation to pre-season remarks I made and Salo, and NO Garrison isn't just as effective. He is all over the place and it's having the reverse effect on this team Salo had. Maybe Garrison will come round, the question is when and can we wait that long.

My point about Booth has nothing to do with Raymond. Raymond HAS proved to be a fit and considering the the disparity in Salary my point is we could have done a lot better for $4.2m. I'm more worried about where Booth's head is to be honest and if I thought that would change then I might be convinced. He just doesn't appear to be a team player and he's not good enough to be anything else. It's time he realised that.

I am not favouring AV, I'm saying it is hard to lay ALL the blame on the coach when this is obviously a partnership. If MG had got AV some ready to go pieces, and recognised that the team needed more size and pushback after the Boston series then I would have laid it all on AV. He has patently failed to do that and is therefor culpable in the stalling of this team big time.

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

If you can't see a trend then I doubt there is hope for you. I couldn't be more explicit.

[Ghostsof1915]

Sorry the moment you said we let Rome go and acted like that's hurt our team you lost all credibility. Rome was a plug. Plain and simple. Tanev is a far better defenseman than Rome ever will be. Our defense as a whole is not physical to start the season. I blame that on the lockout more than anything else. Once the players get their "legs" I'm sure the physical stuff will come back.

The Hodgson trade was bad timing. It would have been better in the offseason where hopefully we could have gotten more for him.

Bottom line is it takes something to get something. Gillis can't waive a magic wand and pick up an elite centre, and a Norris calibre defenseman. Trading Ballard or Luongo will not get those type of pieces back either. Could we move Edler and Luongo?

That might get us the pieces we need, but you'd probably be getting a younger prospect who may or may not be NHL ready.

That also doesn't help us short-term.

By the way, Rome in Dallas so far has missed 4 games with a groin strain, and is now day to day with the flu. He's played 1 game and is -2. Garrison who's the new whipping boy, is +2, played 6 games and has 8 hits to Rome's 3. Wow..what a big loss we've suffered.

If there's a problem I'm finding with the Canucks it's scouting. Last season might have been one of the better drafts Gillis has made. But I think there's lots of room for improvement.

[canuckster19]

I agree to an extent. Gillis hasn't really done this team any favors for a while, but to absolve AV of all blame for the Canucks supposed shortcomings doesn't seem right.

Your final comment didn't make a lot of sense to me. "AV dragged this team to Game 7 of the SCF"? Did I gather that correctly?

[Jägermeister]

Wait, we are talking about the same MG who was voted the leagues best GM just a year and a half ago right?

[Raiun]

I think it's funny that people ask for "big bold moves that make impacts etc etc" but to me the only difference between a gamble that is a bust and a gamble that is a "big, sweeping, imaginative bold move blah blah" is that it turns into a gem instead of coal.

None of MG's moves so far have been coal, and some still look like they have potential to be gems. Look at Kassian, he could really develop into a star for our team. Booth didn't get a fair shake last season, he started off hot and then got a cheap knee on knee hit that took him out for ages, and he couldn't get back to form. Kesler was injured and dragging his linemates down. Garrison has only had a couple of games with us, a handful of practices, and a short training camp. GIVE IT SOME TIME.

[Heretic]

There is nothing wrong with the Hodgson / Kassian trade. Win/win for both clubs.

After seeing COHO give the puck away twice in the third period against the Leafs the other night and his attempts to get to the front of the net were easily thwarted by the Leafs defense, I am glad he's not on our team.

[Ossi Vaananen]

MG has made smart moves from the time of his arrival. Yes, you can talk about the bad signing in Sturm, but look who we packaged to get Booth, an overpriced reclamation project in Sturm and an aging Samuelsson for a 26 y/o with a proven ability to pot 60 points. The only negative about Booth is his contract, which you failed to mention in your post.

Instead your ramblings are directed towards things that you don't think 'fit' or you judge subjectively as not working. There is no clear thesis as to what you define as the 'trend'. You seem to imply throughout your post that we could be a more competitive team had some of these risks not been taken, then you imply that it would have been better just to stockpile picks? That would make this team less competitive.

It seems your posting just to be different, despite the clear logic in front of you. Salo was a leader on our D-core, no question, but he was also asking for term on a 35+ contract (which means we pay the full value of the contract, regardless of potential retirement). MG did offer Salo a 1 year deal, but Tampa offered 7m over 2 years, to a guy who hasn't played a full season in his career.

Garrison as a replacement hasn't worked out 6 games into the season, I think we can wait for a bigger sample size before we complain about that. He has been solid defensively, though he hasn't put up points yet. He has also been a horse on our backend averaging 23:05 of ice time a game.

What MG has done since getting here is creating a culture of winning. Let me remind you again of our last GM in Dave Nonis, who in 07-08 signed Brad Isbister at free agency, and then went on to acquire Matt Pettinger at the deadline. At least with MG we are getting quality players to build upon a strong core. At the deadline every year we have gotten roster pieces, namely Lapierre, Higgins, Kassian etc. At free agency Gillis is actually able to attract free agents here, Demitra, Hamhuis, Garrison, Sundin etc. all signed here under Gillis's tenure while Nonis couldn't attract a single FA. On top of all this Gillis has locked up core players to long term deals, the Sedins, Bieksa, Luongo, Kesler, Schneider and more recently Edler. If that wasn't enough, he's gone over the top by hiring sleep specialists who then lobbied the NHL for a more lenient travel schedule. So ya, Gillis is sabotaging this team with the 2 players you were able to mention that haven't worked out here, or have yet to work out - TOTALLY.

[D-Money]

The only bad trend I see here is someone starting threads after staying up all night drinking.

- Hodgson was a whiny b**** that didn't want to be here, and Kassian looks like a perfect fit for what the team needed. Total win. Sultzer (sic)? Really? We signed him for nothing earlier in the year, and didn't need him anyways.

- 'Something "hot"' is freakin expensive, even if just a rental. Would you have been happy trading Jensen, or the pick that ended up Guance, for a flashy rental, only to be bounced by the hottest team in the league in the 1st round? As for Pahalsson (sic), what the hell? He had one more goal then Daniel Sedin, Kesler, Salo, Booth, or Raymond.

- Gillis didn't "ditch" Rome and Salo, he simply wasn't willing to match their contract offers. Rome got a 3 year deal at 1.5 per - he's a fine defenseman, but considering where he was in our depth chart, he's wasn't worth a 200% raise, and he wasn't in our long-term plans. Salo is always fantastic at the beginning of the season, but he's a walking IR timebomb who started showing his age at the end of last season. I wouldn't want to give him a 2-year deal at 3.75 with a NMC either. Alberts hits more than anyone we have on defense, and always shows up to play when he's needed. Plus, his contract expires at the end of this season, just in time for the cap to go down. As for your 2 "hummers" - are you talking about Barker and Vandermeer? When we have a few injuries, and these guys step in and hold the fort, and you're raving about how great it is that we have them, I'm totally pulling up this thread.

- Garrison is adapting to a new system and a new team. Other than the one brutal giveaway to SJ, he's been fine. Had his two posts actually bounced in, everyone here would be raving about him.

- Sturm was useless, and Sammy was injured, and didn't end up playing a game until December. We already had Kesler coming off of injury. Samuelsson has publicly said he wasn't on good terms with Canucks' management, so perhaps Gillis had confirmation that he wasn't going to re-sign in Vancouver at the end of the season. We definitely need a physical winger of the Samuelsson/Booth ilk, and the Sturm experiment showed how hard it was to acquire a player like that. So the Booth trade was an excellent move at the time. If it weren't for a bad injury and a dry spell for Booth at the end of the year, people would be raving about this trade as highly as the Ehrhoff one.

- "We lumbered the Aquilnis with the expensive Reinprecht" - are you kidding me? Who cares? Reinprecht would have came in handy had Keith elbowed Henrik instead of Daniel.

The next time you think a thread like this is a good idea, put down the bottle and go to bed. Once you're sober and well-rested, you'll probably just stick to praising Raymond.

[frazzY]

The team needs a fire under there ass, a new voice in the room. If any of you cant see that you're blind.. It might not even be AV, but a change is needed and what better change than a new bench boss, the potential is there!

AV doesnt help by saying things like "i dont talk to players.. " bla bla

I BET NO OTHER COACH IN THE LEAGUE TAKES HIS APPROACH! No other successful team anyway.

Drew Doughty said Darryl Sutter was the hardest coach hes ever had. Look at doughtys play last post season and tell me that didnt have a positive affect on his play..

AV's got to go. When it matters most (the playoffs) the boys need that extra push. For example, when you go to the gym u probably have a better work out with a partner pushing you, an even better work out with a personal trainer pushing you.. AV doesnt do that...

He doesnt talk to his players (his words not mine)

Hes got to go, NEXT

[Dral]

If Kassian hasn't answered a need for the canucks, like you say... WOW, I really can't wait to see him in 2 years.

We can start calling him NGO!

Next Great One

[Baggins]

Didn't we saddle Florida with with Sturm when they saddled us with Reinprecht?