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There is a trend here...........and not a good one.


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#61 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:26 PM

Check your facts, Hamhuis virtually begged to come here. Your "fair judgement comment shows you don't understand the OP. This is about getting the pieces to stop a repeat of the our team getting beaten up by more physical teams. Like LA for instance.



Did he? Well how about adding Ballard, Tanev, Sammeulsson, Booth, exc. exc. exc.

MG made us the team we are, AV has caused this team to fail. And once again our "softness" is being overblow.

But it didn't help us did it and I doubt it will help us this season either. I would like it to but I can't see it.


Leading our team in scoring, playing on the 1st line and: "I doubt it will help us this season either"

Alright, by that logic I guess Cody won't help Buffalo this season either. So the deal is a wash for now.

But we gave Garrison much more for longer to "hopefully do the same thing" We could have just moved Ballard up and filled in at the bottom line with Vandermeer.

As I say, we will see. Sami would, I think have taken less to stay.


After the departure of Sami, we desperately needed to add another D-man, IMO we needed to add one either way.

And I can't see how anyone can be comfortable with Barker or Vandermeer playing 15-20+ minutes a night.

Sami would have taken less, but he wanted more than 1 year, too risky for us. And when Tampa made that deal (A deal he couldn't refuse) there was no way we were matching it.

Good for him, he got a great contract, nothing we would have been willing to do and rightfully so.

I'm just not convinced. (and I'm not alone) I don't like his selfish approach and it won't work with Kes and Raymond. As I say for that kind of money we could have done better.


Selfish approach? :lol:

Would love to hear where you are getting that from.

And if it won't work with Kes, then Raymond won't either, if Kes is the same Kes we saw last year, then Raymond will be just as ineffective as Booth, if Kesler turns into the player he was in 09-10, Booth will fare better than Raymond did.

Well fine let's just sit and moan like we all do on here when we get knocked about and when we meet tough teams. You do realise that we HAVE stood still in terms of physicality (arguable gone back) Other teams haven't. Unless MG pulls something good out of the Lu deal we could possibly not get further than round 1 again.


We have gotten less physical?

I guess Kassian for Cody is losing toughness/physicality. Garrison for Salo is losing toughness/physicality. Losing Sulzer for Vandermeer is losing toughness/physicality. Losing Sammuelsson/Sturm for Booth is losing toughness/physicality.

Are those moves all losses in that department?

Your going to have to elaborate, as we have only added more of that component, and it was something that was already overrated IMO.
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#62 Canucklehead420

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:40 PM

If this were soccer I would agree that AV should carry the can but the Canuck line up is devised primarily by a tandem........more if you include assistants and scouts..........but in the main the team is supplied by MG and coached by AV

Well how has MG helped AV recently? (since the SC)

He has traded Hodgson (and let's not forget Sultzer, someone who never got a real chance) for Kassian and someone (Gragnani) AV/MG threw away after spending the "pre playoff games" messing up the defence trying him out.

Kassian will be good, I have no doubt about that and maybe the moving of Hodgson was forced on MG. That said he should have devised a package that got something "hot" for the pending campaign. He didn't. As for Pahalsson......more mediocrity.

He ditched Rome and Salo while taking on 2 "hummers" for the Wolves and keeping nice guy Alberts. I'm sorry I love nice guys but only if they are performing. Rome was a very physical, underrated player and boy we could have used him now. Salo was ditched because he "had a history of injuries" in an injury inclined team......big deal! He was still a huge influence on our D, very strong and with a proven lethal snapshot.

He brings in Garrison after one half decent season and awards him the "kingdom" putting him up alongside players like Bieksa and Hamhuis.........who have actually proved they have got what it takes. The much vaunted canon on this guy is in need of sending back to the factory or he needs an appointment with an optician. True it is early days but the guy is an expensive gamble......again.

Sammy and Sturm, he decided were surplus, fair enough. However again he builds a trade that means we are gambling. I mean if Sammy was good enough to get the deal he has with Detroit only last year it makes me think we undervalued him.
Sturm was another Gilis "project ( Mike Gillis acknowledged the risk in signing Sturm, given his two knee surgeries in the past three years) a damned expensive one at $2.5m.........in short another blunder.

This blunder was then "knocked on" by taking yet another overpriced "project" David Booth. Booth is a trier, no doubt, goes to the net and all the other cliches but he is NOT a fit, nor does he have the impact, certainly not, at that price, we needed..........Oh and we lumbered the Aquilnis with the expensive Reinprecht as part of the deal.

Anyone seeing a trend here yet? Mediocrity and projects when what our team needed was bold imaginative moves to enhance our SC prospects. Add to that our less than sterling draft performances.

Hell we could have had draft picks for all the rubbish above and been better placed with a couple of UFAs than we are now.

So you see AV has had f---all help and arguably hinderance from big Mike since dragging his battered and battle weary squad to game 7 in 2011.



This isnt NHL 13 when you can stack your team before creating Be a GM. some players pan out greatly others don't. you mention Rome and Salo were let go, so I assume you'd prefer them to get lenthy extensions? what happens when Salo is out 6-8 weeks with a hangnail? if you'd be happy to give Rome 4.5M over 3 years you need your head examined. he was our 6th-7th Dman.

you talk of these hot commodities Gillis fails to land, would you be willing to give up Edler a 1st, Jensen and Tanev for those commodities? If they didnt pan out you'd be saying the same thing about Nash or Parise or whoever you'd sell the farm to get.

prior to Booths Injury he was on pace for 23 goals and 43 points. probably would have ended up with 25-27G 50-55 points had he realy been able to get rolling. for what we gave up Im pretty sure we came out on top.
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#63 higgyfan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:14 PM

Criticism of MG turns into a public flogging on these boards. In other threads, all I hear about is how awful AV is, we need bigger players, our defence is awful and how we don't have secondary scoring. So who is the only person that can change any of this?

Edited by higgyfan, 30 January 2013 - 07:16 PM.

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#64 thema

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

I'm finding it somewhat amusing that every single person here seems to be talking along the lines of "Garrison has been fine he just needs to adapt to a new system" blah blah blah but are also saying things like "Sturm was useless" even though he got, that's right, exactly 6 games to set the world on fire here while re-habbing an injured knee. Both have/had ZERO points after 6 games and BOTH have either been "useless" or had/are "having trouble adapting to a new system", take your pick. Why is this? Could it be that nobody here wants to even consider the possibility that Gillis has made an error in signing a guy who had a terrific 4 months of hockey (at age 27) to a ridiculous long term deal? My take is that 6 games is nowhere near enough time to judge but it sure doesn't look like Garrison is going to turn into even a break even replacement for Salo (who is typically outperforming him already). It reminds me of the poster awhile back who defended letting Erhoff walk because "Tanev will replace Erhoff's missing offense". As you all know Tanev has yet to score an NHL goal. Then there's Kyle Wellwood who was being criticised by his coach before he ever played a game for this team (again while re-habbing a broken foot). Put simply if a cheap expendable player doesn't immediately catch fire it's the player's fault but if the player is a big questionable contract signing then it's a matter of "just give him time to adapt to a new system" . It's one or the other folks. Anything to help Master GM Gillis avoid looking like he might have made a mistake. He has made plenty and will make many more, I'm sure. Maybe having ZERO experience as a hockey GM at ANY level prior to his coronation here has something to do with it.
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#65 Noheart

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

What it all boils down to is we have played 6 of 48 games.
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BEASTLY!!!

#66 higgyfan

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

What it all boils down to is we have played 6 of 48 games.


You're probably right there Noheart. but the stakes are high and there's a long way to the ground. Nuck fans are anything but patient.
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#67 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

lol As good a flaming as I've ever seen and one that he definitely deserves.

MG is the reason you are even posting on these message boards buddy, don't forget for one second how much success we've had and still have since he's been here as our general manager. The only thing we haven't accomplished is a Stanley Cup.. Weeding out the fans like you until we get one will be a pleasure as soon as we do win the holy grail. I'll see you after you come crawling back "Little Miss Bang-wagon," but for now please god... Stop this guy from making these bogus threads! :picard:

Edited by Kesler's Nose, 30 January 2013 - 08:28 PM.

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"It's an opportunity, we don't look at it as a last chance... We look at it as an opportunity to do something great. We are going to take it period by period, shift by shift. You just have to be better than the guy across from you... Every guy in this locker room I can say believes we can do this." - Ryan Kesler

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#68 JelloIce

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

Congratulations CDC. A Bodee thread has reached 3 pages.
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#69 Bodee

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:57 AM

Friends, I understand how the truth hurts, so I wasn't surprised by the reaction or indeed hypocrisy.
I stand by every word of my original post and no doubt when the playoffs come round again you will be screaming like stuffed pigs as is normally the case on here blaming AV for not magically putting 10 lbs on half of our players and suddenly manifesting in them more pushback.

Somebody above says I was flamed. If only that had been true it would have excused some of you your cretinous behaviour. (and in truth my more than fiery response)

No, I was attacked by people who were too ignorant even to appreciate the time line or the fact I was not asking for MG to be fired but only to give this team what it needs. What many people on here, even some of you hypocrites have been crying out for for two years now.

You regularly attack AV, despite the fact he has coached us to our most success and indeed is the Canucks winningest coach.

This because he couldn't force a battered and depleted team over the line in the SC or get our team off to flying starts.

And yet in some contrary way, you don't admit that the man responsible for failing to properly bolster the team over the last 2 years is not at least, partially culpable.

I remember well the reasons, while you obviously suffer from convenient amnesia. We lack size you said, we lack pushback, we lack a game changing sniper, we lack someone to protect the Sedins, We lack a big gritty stay at home D. Our offence dries up, the secondary and primary scoring evaporates.

Now two years down the line all we have given that team is a young giant who MAY prove to be PART of the answer in a couple of years. Yes he has got off to a good start but why is that a more valid point after 7 games than another player's poor start?

If he continues to be forced into fights he may not even last the season...............never mind as long as the fans get their jollies eh?

Then there is Booth, another project with past history of injury and concussion, overpaid at $4.2M and a tendency to rub some fans up the wrong way. Not really a sniper, not big enough to trouble the likes of LA or Boston and certainly no game changer.

Bringing up the rear we have Garrison, a guy who was signed to a big, long contract after what was no more than a purple patch at the age of 27.

He may pan out, I'm not saying he won't (as I said in the OP that some people were too lazy to read properly, it is too early to tell ) My point was he is not going to stand up to Lucic or defend our smaller players or our goalie.......there is certainly no record of that in his past. So it's left again to our game middleweights Bieksa and Ballard (who picked up a concussion last year)

My point is he was not what we needed now, while our window is still half open.

In amongst all this we have Sturm, Gragnani, Reinprecht, Pahalsson, the loss of Sami and Rome and our less than sterling draft attempts.

Is that the best we could do for a SC finals team?

I say again, I have never asked for MG to be fired, only to stop fannying about and give this team what it needs, what it deserves FOR THIS WINDOW.

Edited by Bodee, 31 January 2013 - 03:59 AM.

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#70 Baggins

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:30 AM

Friends, I understand how the truth hurts, so I wasn't surprised by the reaction or indeed hypocrisy.

I say again, I have never asked for MG to be fired, only to stop fannying about and give this team what it needs, what it deserves FOR THIS WINDOW.


It's your truth and what you believe the team needs. This "push back" has been overblown for two years. It's not the reason we lost to the Bruins or LA.
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#71 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:32 AM

I won't be picked up on things that are written plainly.

If someone can't comprehend plain english I can't be bothered repeating it. This thread is riddled with people who either haven't read the OP, have read it but failed to understand/comprehend it, or have just assumed insult mode and waded in with their ignorant one liners.
One or two have read it and understood where I'm coming from, kudos to them.

As for you last comment jeez that is rich, I've no time for people making statements like that trying to ingratiate themselves. Have you looked at some of the replies?


Or they just don't agree with it and have a completely different opinion. Which appears to be the overwhelming majority of posters.

And the last comment was a joke for God's sake... I've also seen some of your responses and you're not helping your case.
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#72 FelixPotvin29

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:37 AM

LOUD NOISES!!!!!!!!!
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#73 debluvscanucks

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:01 AM

The point I make is that you can't just "get" what your team may need....there isn't a shop to go pick up a few missing parts. So MG tries to address needs without sacrificing what we do have, because it is unknown when you pick up those missing parts, how and if they'll pan out.

I think we needed: our guys all to be healthy, but that didn't happen. I also think we did need a bit of pushback, but where did that get us when we tried that route? (Tossed out, at the receiving end of the punishment, etc.). I believe the tweaks he's making are attempts to fill voids without creating other ones. I watched Gilbert Brule play as a Giant and thought he'd excel once he hit the NHL (despite not being very big, he played with a chippy edge)...was really excited to see that happen. But it didn't.

You are dealt a hand/acquire a team as a GM and then make decisions as to how you play it out...but there are unknowns that come into play that can't possibly be foreseen. And there are also those playing against you who also hold their cards tight to their chest. Trading partners and available players have a say in where they go and why that is. MG can't "make" things happen unless the other parties involved are in agreement. And that's what seems to get overlooked at times.

I also think you haven't had an adequate sample size (yet) to assess things. We will be getting players back that are desperately needed...until then, we're piecing it together and trying different things. The guys also ARE slow starters, but it seems that they're shaking off the dust a bit. Plus, for the moment, we do have two fantastic goaltenders and some teams hardly have hope in one. We're ok, let's just sit back, relax and watch what develops.
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#74 Bodee

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:06 AM

Or they just don't agree with it and have a completely different opinion. Which appears to be the overwhelming majority of posters.

And the last comment was a joke for God's sake... I've also seen some of your responses and you're not helping your case.



Look I don't and never have had a problem with people disagreeing with me. What I don't appreciate is that when I try to lay out my point of view it leads to being disrespected. Some have agreed with my view so it is not even isolated.

I am happy for people to dissect the post and argue their own point of view. However some went into knee jerk mode and didn't respond with civility, some not even addressing the points. If that is how they feel they may as well refrain from posting.

It's this jackal thing on here, usually directed at players I try to defend, that cheeses me off.

The smart ass one line idiots trying look good when in fact it makes them look like inadequates. Or the pedants who find it less of a strain on their (questionable) intellect to make a big thing out of the mis-spelling of a German name, rather than debate the point. How sad, I suppose that's how they get their kicks.

I am fiery/passionate and tend to react accordingly. However if you look at my responses to people like deb, yourself initially, Ossi Vaananen and some others, who obviously don't agree with me but have argued with respect, I think my replies are courteous and civil.

Anyway good win last night but let's not get carried away, we beat a team, with the help of Lu's outstanding net minding, who were minus their top line.

Edited by Bodee, 31 January 2013 - 10:07 AM.

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#75 Bodee

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

The point I make is that you can't just "get" what your team may need....there isn't a shop to go pick up a few missing parts. So MG tries to address needs without sacrificing what we do have, because it is unknown when you pick up those missing parts, how and if they'll pan out.

I think we needed: our guys all to be healthy, but that didn't happen. I also think we did need a bit of pushback, but where did that get us when we tried that route? (Tossed out, at the receiving end of the punishment, etc.). I believe the tweaks he's making are attempts to fill voids without creating other ones. I watched Gilbert Brule play as a Giant and thought he'd excel once he hit the NHL (despite not being very big, he played with a chippy edge)...was really excited to see that happen. But it didn't.

You are dealt a hand/acquire a team as a GM and then make decisions as to how you play it out...but there are unknowns that come into play that can't possibly be foreseen. And there are also those playing against you who also hold their cards tight to their chest. Trading partners and available players have a say in where they go and why that is. MG can't "make" things happen unless the other parties involved are in agreement. And that's what seems to get overlooked at times.

I also think you haven't had an adequate sample size (yet) to assess things. We will be getting players back that are desperately needed...until then, we're piecing it together and trying different things. The guys also ARE slow starters, but it seems that they're shaking off the dust a bit. Plus, for the moment, we do have two fantastic goaltenders and some teams hardly have hope in one. We're ok, let's just sit back, relax and watch what develops.


Fair enough, it just seems to me that we have waited a long time and we never seem to get anything of outstanding quality that is ready to go.

While I agree it is not like going into a shop, surely it is part of the GM's acumen to be able to walk that thin line and give up something good x whatever to get something that will really take us up the last few rungs in the ladder.

Is Lu the only player who fits this description? I'm wondering who MG has signed, where we got someone ready to go elite and in his prime.

No one said it was easy but it is not impossible and we have been waiting 2 years. Maybe it is just round the corner as you say, I hope so.

Edited by Bodee, 31 January 2013 - 10:19 AM.

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#76 D-Money

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:21 AM

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#77 NexusRift

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

Trend!?!?!?!? If your meaning is to say that MG's efforts to build a team around our core, (Kes, Sedins, Bieksa, Edler, and Burrows), have been mediocre. I'd agree with that, but only partially. It seems to me that the process is probably too slow for the 'Nuck fan base. MG's team building approach seems to lean on the, "this is what you've done lately, so let's see if you can do the same for us." Most any new player has to adjust to their new team and style of play.

To make an instant impact and continue to do so belongs to the arena of top grade elite players. Since the acquisition of Lou, top grade elite players haven't been in the cards for our team. We'd have to give up some substantial components to acquire eliteness. So this is why it has been so in the MG era. Get players we hope wll contribute, ( Booth, Ballard and Garrison,)and develop our med to high first rounders. (Raymond, Schroeder.) Whatever this,"trend," be, I hope it doesn't last too long 'cuz our core isn't getting any younger.

To build around them would only exacerbate a Flames scenario or Sundin in TO type of deal. Can't do that for too much longer. The Sedin's are hard to move and I'm sure they're lifers. Bieksa, Edler and Kes are trade worthy, but i'm sure they're not going anywhere. It'd be a shame to lose Burrows and when it comes time to sign him, is he loyal enough to take less than what he's worth? On the open market, he'd could make tons more. As it stands right now, we've got a good core of players and acqisitions signed on for awhile so for now we're safe.

An unrestricted free agent signing in the off season for a player that can still contribute would be a good idea. Can you say Jaromír Jágr? I guess it's all business, money management, salary cap hits and such, but we could use an elite SCW vet of some sort. I'd even go with an Iginla, Alfredsson or Pronger!
Cheers.
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