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Update: Smart Meters still being Installed despite not be given consent by Homeowners


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#1 J529

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...mart-meter.html


BC Hydro confirmed Wednesday that it is not going to install smart meters without the permission of residents, but it's not clear what the Crown corporation's long term plan is.

The power company says it has already installed 95 per cent of the high-tech devices, and it is going to take some extra time to work with the remaining 85,000 customers who have refused the new meters.
"We think it’s important to take some extra time to work with customers who still have concerns with getting a new meter. In the meantime we will not install a new meter for these customers unless we have their permission," said a statement issued by BC Hydro spokesman Greg Alexis.
All of the meters were supposed to be installed by the end of last year, but thousands of customers objected, citing health, safety and privacy concerns.
Alexis says about 9,000 customers who originally objected to the new meters agreed to have them installed after meeting with BC Hydro reps. Another 35,000 have yet to be installed because of other issues, such as construction delays, say officials.
The delay will likely mean nobody will have a smart meter forced upon them before the upcoming provincial election in May, but it is not clear what is BC Hydro's long term plan for the hold-outs.
Previously, Hydro has said all customers will have to have the meters installed because the system won't work if people opt out.
"With the new system in place, we have no way of getting information from the old meters without setting up a separate, expensive customized system," according to the BC Hydro website.
"If you don't want a smart meter on your house, you have the option of moving the meter to a different location on your property."
    
Minister softened stance last week

BC Hydro's new position comes after the NDP opposition called on the government to clarify its stance on the program, following some statements by Energy Minister Rich Coleman last week that indicated it was backing down on the mandatory installations.
"I am writing to assure your readers that BC Hydro will be working with its customers over the next several months to help them understand the benefits of new smart meters prior to final installation," Coleman said in a statement last week.
"During this time, BC Hydro will not install a new meter without the homeowner’s consent and will work directly with customers to address their individual concerns."
That led NDP energy critic John Horgan to call on the government to clarify the situation for the public.
“One week customers are receiving threatening letters saying the meters will be installed no matter what. The next week the energy minister pens an opinion piece saying B.C. Hydro won’t install a new meter without the homeowner’s consent,” said Horgan.
“Which is it? You can’t have it both ways ... This is a government initiative, it's a BC Hydro initiative and we haven't heard categorically and clearly just what the expectations are for people who don't want a smart meter today."
Horgan is also reiterating an NDP promise to ask the B.C. Utilities Commission to take the entire billion-dollar smart meter program to the B.C. Utilities Commission for analysis if the party wins the May provincial election, something the Liberals have refused to do.
“The smart meter initiative — a billion-dollar expenditure — has been rife with discord from the beginning, and the independent utilities commission has been barred from overseeing the process,” said Horgan


Edited by J529, 03 February 2013 - 05:16 PM.

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#2 J529

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...art-meters.html

B.C. Energy Minister Rich Coleman says nothing is off the table when it comes to smart meters.
Speaking at the Vancouver Board of Trade on Thursday, Coleman hinted those holding out on smart meter installation may end up paying for the delay down the road.
"I think what will happen over time, if you look at other jurisdictions, they've looked at different programs so that people could make a decision based on what it may cost in the future," Coleman said. Coleman didn't have specific details on how or when his ministry or BC Hydro would move forward with more installations. "My plan on this all along is let's get through the whole 1.8 million customers, [then] go back and respectfully have a conversation with those customers [who refuse] about the meters, see how many more take them, and then come back to me with the real numbers and then we'll build a plan," he said. BC Hydro said Wednesday it wouldn't go ahead with 85,000 installations where residents refused permission. Last week, Coleman indicated his ministry would back down — at least in the run-up to the May provincial election. All of the smart meters were supposed to be installed by the end of 2012 but thousands of customers objected, citing health, safety and privacy concerns. BC Hydro had said all customers will have to have the meters installed because the system won't work if people opt out.


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#3 J529

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Election Ploy. Nothing more. Government doesn't want to angry people with the upcoming Election, thus why they will back off until after the Election. This should be an Election Issue. There are Health, Privacy Issues associated with Smart Meters, but also each B.C. Resident should have the choice of whether they want a Smart Meter or not. Not having a dictatorship telling everyone that you must have one or else. Government has botched this worst then the HST. Regardless of who wins the election, I fear Smart Meters will still be forced on those who don't have one and don't want one.

Edited by J529, 31 January 2013 - 06:39 PM.

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#4 kyledude

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:51 PM

Agreed. Let's not become like the US where they arrest people who say no. Freedom indeed.
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#5 key2thecup

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

But if you already got muscled into installing a smarty and want your old one back........OOOPSY! Sorry we can't do that now.
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#6 J529

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:05 PM

But if you already got muscled into installing a smarty and want your old one back........OOOPSY! Sorry we can't do that now.


They say Analog Meters are no longer available. That's actually a lie, as they are still available from what I heard.
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#7 J.R.

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

My bill increased by ~100% after getting the new smart meter installed. Tried contacting BC Hydro to get them to come check and/or replace the unit and was basically told to go pound sand/that the increase was from my usage despite no major updates/new appliances etc. Hell if anything we've been upgrading to more efficient washer/dryer, lights etc over the past few years.

I also contacted the BC Utilities Commission about it but they just seem like a toothless middle man put in place for customers to vent with no real tangible power or ability to do anything for customers.
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#8 ronthecivil

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:33 PM

Oh brother if you don't like it don't buy power from them.

People that say they cause health issues are clueless. If the emissions from the smart meter are a health hazard they should turn the electricity off entirely because the transmission of the electricity itself will put out the same emissions. If you want to escape those emissions I would recommend a cabin way back in the woods. And I certainly wouldn't be complaining about it on any sort of device that would allow you to communicate right here!

People that say their bill went up probably had a faulty meter that was under-reporting their use in the past. With the way that they up the rates after a certain number of Kwh (how they come up with that number is a mystery) you don't need to increase your usage that much to get a doubling of the bill.

There is of course a valid conspiracy in that one day this will result in variable time of day rates (which I would greatly prefer since I tend to run all my high draw electronics at night) but would none the less be a lot more fair as it costs more to provide electricity in the day than at night.

Should someone want to avoid having a smart meter for whatever reason I say fine.

But I would allow an opt in for time of day billing to allow people that want to try to reduce their rates by shifting their high power activities to off peak hours. And of course the only way you could get on that program is to have a smart meter.

Edit: P.S. Your power bill is already massively subsidized. Try paying market rates for power and you will see it probably triple.

Edited by ronthecivil, 01 February 2013 - 12:34 PM.

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#9 AllHailSmyl

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:56 PM

Oh brother if you don't like it don't buy power from them.

People that say they cause health issues are clueless. If the emissions from the smart meter are a health hazard they should turn the electricity off entirely because the transmission of the electricity itself will put out the same emissions. If you want to escape those emissions I would recommend a cabin way back in the woods. And I certainly wouldn't be complaining about it on any sort of device that would allow you to communicate right here!

People that say their bill went up probably had a faulty meter that was under-reporting their use in the past. With the way that they up the rates after a certain number of Kwh (how they come up with that number is a mystery) you don't need to increase your usage that much to get a doubling of the bill.

There is of course a valid conspiracy in that one day this will result in variable time of day rates (which I would greatly prefer since I tend to run all my high draw electronics at night) but would none the less be a lot more fair as it costs more to provide electricity in the day than at night.

Should someone want to avoid having a smart meter for whatever reason I say fine.

But I would allow an opt in for time of day billing to allow people that want to try to reduce their rates by shifting their high power activities to off peak hours. And of course the only way you could get on that program is to have a smart meter.

Edit: P.S. Your power bill is already massively subsidized. Try paying market rates for power and you will see it probably triple.


This. I've had my meter changed for about a year now and I've seen no difference in the amount I pay, which I guess means I had a working old meter before.

The health hazard thing is really absurd as well. If you think the smart meter is going to cause health issues, you probably should also stop using your cellphone or any related devices.
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#10 key2thecup

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:08 PM

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Edited by key2thecup, 03 February 2013 - 01:12 PM.

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#11 ronthecivil

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 01:59 PM

^ ROFL at the cartoon.

No matter how much they deny time of day billing (and they might honestly not intend it) you can be assured that the policy will change within a decade.
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#12 Grapefruits

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

This. I've had my meter changed for about a year now and I've seen no difference in the amount I pay, which I guess means I had a working old meter before.

The health hazard thing is really absurd as well. If you think the smart meter is going to cause health issues, you probably should also stop using your cellphone or any related devices.


Same, if anything mine has gone down a little.
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#13 TLindenIsGod

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:09 PM

"If you don't want a smart meter on your house, you have the option of moving the meter to a different location on your property."
BC Hydro charged me close to $14k for a hydro hookup and a new pole on my warehouse, and showed up to do the work about 4 weeks late. I could just imagine how much the quoted option would run a homeowner.
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#14 surtur

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:37 PM

This. I've had my meter changed for about a year now and I've seen no difference in the amount I pay, which I guess means I had a working old meter before.

The health hazard thing is really absurd as well. If you think the smart meter is going to cause health issues, you probably should also stop using your cellphone or any related devices.

I would trust an analog meter before i trust a digital one.
analog can not be manipulated unless you bypass it, digital who knows i am sure conspiracy theorists have a list of possible things that can be done over the wireless connection.
the health issues i have no more concern over the smart meters as i do every other radio signal that flows through my body a few million times a day .... (they are all probably not crazy good for me but what can you do end all radio communication, Tv, Sat, Cell phones etc etc..)

i have a smart meter and i got the same doubling of my bill this was after 6 months of having it everything was the same as when i had the analog meter.
then a funny thing happened i started turning off the lights when not being used, doing less laundry, installing CFL's, turning the PC's off at night, you know saving energy . then Boom 260$ .regular bill was 120-145$
i am waiting to see my next months bill but they say it is just how much i used.
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#15 Lillooet_Hillbilly

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:21 AM

i still got my old meter. hydro guy came around and asked if he was allowed to install i said sure, but he got scared at the 2 english mastiffs jumping on the fence and i wasn't gonna put them in the house :P
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#16 DonLever

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:47 AM

Could anyone explain how a smart meter is harmful to your health when it is located outside of your home, hundreds of feet away from you? Yet people hold cell-phones to their heads for many hours per week?
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#17 canucks since 77

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:00 AM

i still got my old meter. hydro guy came around and asked if he was allowed to install i said sure, but he got scared at the 2 english mastiffs jumping on the fence and i wasn't gonna put them in the house :P

Same here. They would love a new toy to chew on. The Meter reader walks softly and carries two big dog cookies. I have a large sign that fits over the glass part of the meter saying to leave the meter be. My neighbors rate went up less than two weeks after installation.

Edited by canucks since 77, 02 February 2013 - 02:29 AM.

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#18 ronthecivil

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

Same here. They would love a new toy to chew on. The Meter reader walks softly and carries two big dog cookies. I have a large sign that fits over the glass part of the meter saying to leave the meter be. My neighbors rate went up less than two weeks after installation.


In that case they should just assume you have a grow up and charge you a flate rate of $500 bucks a month. If people really don't want the electrical service then they should simply get a generator and off the grid.

The sense of entitlement as though the world owes you cheap electricity is simply amazing!
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#19 canucks since 77

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

In that case they should just assume you have a grow up and charge you a flate rate of $500 bucks a month. If people really don't want the electrical service then they should simply get a generator and off the grid.

The sense of entitlement as though the world owes you cheap electricity is simply amazing!

Says the pot calling the kettle black. Like our polititions, I would'nt trust hydro to wipe their own ass. Love the way you group people together. Kinda reminds me of Archie Bunker. Your just butthurt because hydro pulled one over you. It's my right to refuse the meter and thats all that matters.

Edited by canucks since 77, 02 February 2013 - 06:02 PM.

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#20 ronthecivil

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:32 PM

Says the pot calling the kettle black. Like our polititions, I would'nt trust hydro to wipe their own ass. Love the way you group people together. Kinda reminds me of Archie Bunker. Your just butthurt because hydro pulled one over you. It's my right to refuse the meter and thats all that matters.


It is your right to refuse the meter but if you dont' want them on your property to put in a meter that they can read remotely let alone make it safe for them to be on your property to check the old style meter than by all means don't bother using hydro and make your own electricity.

It's your right to refuse but it's not your right to get electricity.
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#21 Lillooet_Hillbilly

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

my meter maid has no problem walking in the yard, my dogs just wag there tail and follow her
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#22 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:23 PM

Could anyone explain how a smart meter is harmful to your health when it is located outside of your home, hundreds of feet away from you? Yet people hold cell-phones to their heads for many hours per week?


Two things wrong with your question.

1st, smart meters are not hundreds of feet away from your home. Most, if not all, are attached to your house. It's possible that you could be sitting in your chair watching TV with the smart meter a few feet, maybe even a few inches from your head. Maybe that will do you no long term damage to your health. But maybe it will. Some people dont wanna be guinea pigs for that.

2nd, people do hold cell-phones to their heads for hours every week. But they do so voluntarily. With the smart meters, people who are opposed have no choice.
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#23 ronthecivil

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

Two things wrong with your question.

1st, smart meters are not hundreds of feet away from your home. Most, if not all, are attached to your house. It's possible that you could be sitting in your chair watching TV with the smart meter a few feet, maybe even a few inches from your head. Maybe that will do you no long term damage to your health. But maybe it will. Some people dont wanna be guinea pigs for that.

2nd, people do hold cell-phones to their heads for hours every week. But they do so voluntarily. With the smart meters, people who are opposed have no choice.


Even the wires running through your house, the TV you sit far away from, and whatever device you wrote this on are going to give you more electromagnetic radiation than the freaking smart meter.

It's like the people before that wanted the hydro lines that go through twassen burried because they were worried about electromagnetic radition as if the ground was able to stop it.

This issue shows how badly BC fails at science (in addition to math) since they have no idea of how this all works but instead just fear monger the public with misinfomation and ignorance.
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#24 trek

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:29 PM

Smart meters run on the 900MHz (cordless phones from the late 80s and 90s) and 2.4 GHz band (Wifi). People will be exposed to that type of RF pretty much anywhere they go whether it's in their own homes or in the city. If that was dangerous we'd all be screwed already.

Plus they only transmit periodically at less than 1W. That's nothing.

I like how a Baby monitor puts out almost 4x as much RF than the smart meters people are whining about.

http://www.bccdc.ca/...easurements.pdf

Edited by trek, 03 February 2013 - 01:33 PM.

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#25 MadMonk

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

Two things wrong with your question.

1st, smart meters are not hundreds of feet away from your home. Most, if not all, are attached to your house. It's possible that you could be sitting in your chair watching TV with the smart meter a few feet, maybe even a few inches from your head. Maybe that will do you no long term damage to your health. But maybe it will. Some people dont wanna be guinea pigs for that.

2nd, people do hold cell-phones to their heads for hours every week. But they do so voluntarily. With the smart meters, people who are opposed have no choice.


The objection makes no sense when you actually quantify the largest possible effect.

Here's some data extracted from a report from an engineering firm.

From the chart below, you can see that even if you 20 cm away from the meter 24 hours a day, the extra radio wave you're exposed to is only marginally more then what you would with out the meter. The total radiation from all background sources is less than 0.4% of the health canada guideline

Note that this is in a testing environment without any internal wireless devices, so if in your house you have a cordless phone, a cell phone, wi-fi etc, your background exposure will be much much higher.

Furthermore, the meter only transmits on average of 1.4s per day, chances are you are not going anywhere closeby when the meter transmits. Law of physics dictates that the intensity falls off as inverse square of the distance, i.e. if you are 2m away the amount of exposure is only 1% of the exposure at 20cm.


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#26 silverpig

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

Two things wrong with your question.

1st, smart meters are not hundreds of feet away from your home. Most, if not all, are attached to your house. It's possible that you could be sitting in your chair watching TV with the smart meter a few feet, maybe even a few inches from your head. Maybe that will do you no long term damage to your health. But maybe it will. Some people dont wanna be guinea pigs for that.

2nd, people do hold cell-phones to their heads for hours every week. But they do so voluntarily. With the smart meters, people who are opposed have no choice.


Smart meters only transmit periodically, and at very low power levels. See the light bulb next to you? It's what, 60W if it's an incandescent, maybe 15W fluorescent? That's 15W of continual power output via radiation. How many do you have in your house? And you're worried about 1W from outside only occasionally?

Also, the radiation from light sources is much more energetic and potentially damaging to you than some RF.
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#27 Wetcoaster

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:37 PM

Smart meters only transmit periodically, and at very low power levels. See the light bulb next to you? It's what, 60W if it's an incandescent, maybe 15W fluorescent? That's 15W of continual power output via radiation. How many do you have in your house? And you're worried about 1W from outside only occasionally?

Also, the radiation from light sources is much more energetic and potentially damaging to you than some RF.

Or one could simply wrap one's residence in tin foil... problem solved. And those kvetching most likely have lots of tin foil on hand.

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#28 canucks since 77

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Probably works better than plastic for catching those nasty drunken scotch spills. I would expect a lawyers house to be coated in teflon.
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#29 J529

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

http://www.timescolo...n-duped-1.65441

Smart-meter foes fume at Coleman; some say they've been duped

On the defensive and battered by a growing wave of critics, Energy Minister Rich Coleman closed the week trying to insist that he wasn’t forcing an unpopular smart-meter program on tens of thousands of unwilling and angry British Columbians.
But numerous B.C. Hydro customers — who say they have been pressured, tricked, ignored or otherwise forced to accept one of the new meters in the past few weeks — tell a different story.
Rae Dhesi opened the door of her South Vancouver home Tuesday to find an employee of Hydro subcontractor Corix Utilities.
“The fella was very nice and said he had to install the meter,” said Dhesi, a retired mother of two.
“I said, ‘I don’t want a smart meter. I’ve phoned [Hydro] and told them I don’t want it.’ ”
The installer explained Hydro’s new policy: Anyone who refuses a meter gets an in-person visit from a Hydro official to talk about their concerns. If the person can’t be swayed, Hydro and Coleman say, the company isn’t allowed to force installation.
Dhesi went inside to look after her children. Ten minutes later, there was a knock on the door, but she said she was busy and didn’t answer it. Within five minutes, the installer had swapped out her meter and left, she said. She didn’t hear from the Crown corporation again.
Like some others, Dhesi said she’s worried about the health effects of the meters’ wireless technology, which transmits data to Hydro computers. She doesn’t want it near her children and is demanding her analogue meter back. Hydro, which has described the smart meters as a necessary modernization, has said it won’t return old meters.
Jim Downing also told Hydro he did not want a new device, even putting a sign on his Surrey home’s meter box. But when Corix installers arrived on Jan. 25, he said, only his girlfriend was home.
The installer told her it was mandatory and that she didn’t have a choice, he said. “So she said, ‘Oh well, OK.’ ”
Downing was furious: Corix took permission from someone who wasn’t even the registered customer, he said. “I was not too pleased, for sure.”
The same day Corix swapped Downing’s meter, the Times Colonist published an op-ed by Coleman saying Hydro would install the devices only with the customer’s consent.
The ensuing confusion over whether customers are able to opt out of the $1-billion smart-meter program prompted the B.C. NDP to call for a cooling-off period.
Coleman dismissed those concerns. “I think the only confusion [is] sometimes I wonder if people read stuff,” he told reporters Thursday, referring to his newspaper op-ed.
“It says very clearly we’re going back to talk to our customers, we’ll not force any customers to take the meter, we will install the ones after we talk to them and re-educate them.”
B.C. Hydro, he added, will “work with them in a respectful way.”
But that’s not good enough for people like Grace Kim, who are stuck with a device they specifically — and repeatedly — rejected.
The stay-at-home mom sent two letters to Hydro refusing a smart meter. Kim said she’s almost always home — except for that one moment in mid-January when Hydro arrived at her Vancouver house.
“I don’t want to fall into the conspiracy-theory category, but I do feel someone was checking on when I was home and installed it when I wasn’t,” she said.
Kim said she is trying to make the best choices for her children’s health, but Hydro hasn’t given her any choices other than a mandatory wireless meter on the outside wall of her children’s bedroom.
“All I’m saying is give us options,” she said.
Now Kim and others are zeroing in on Coleman, demanding answers as the May provincial election approaches.
“He threw that out there, that without consent you’re not going to get a smart meter,” Kim said.
“Well, I have a smart meter. So what are you going to do about it?”
Coleman did not return repeated requests for an interview.


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#30 Wetcoaster

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

Probably works better than plastic for catching those nasty drunken scotch spills. I would expect a lawyers house to be coated in teflon.

I am afraid your expectations are not to be satisfied.

Spill Scotch??? Not on my watch.

Teflon? How 20th century.

I use the new $20 polymer bills - you can put them on the walls in interesting patterns and they are easy to wipe down if they become dirty.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.




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