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Ballard has been screwed over by AV


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#1 orango

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

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Since his arrival in Vancouver, fans have said Ballard has not lived up to expectations. Part of this is because he was put on the bottom pairing, played in bad situations and received limited ice time. Fans have wondered why he is not used in the top 4, especially when Salo was out with injury. AV claimed it was due to neither Ballard or Edler able to play on the right side.

These last couple of games though, the top pairing has been:

Hamhuis - Elder

If you notice, Edler is playing the right side!

It seems to me this is a slap in the face to Ballard. Why did they never put Edler on the right side before with Ballard on the left?

Edit: To be clear, I am talking about two seasons ago, and even last season as well. I do realize Ballard and Tanev are great together this year.

Edited by orango, 02 February 2013 - 11:16 AM.

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#2 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

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Lol Ballard and Tanev have been our best defensive pair this season. Try watching the games instead of the box scores.
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#3 nlife

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:08 AM

I think Bowness is the special teams/defensive coach. So wouldn't that mean that Ballard was screwed over by Bowness and not AV?
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#4 orango

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

Lol Ballard and Tanev have been our best defensive pair this season. Try watching the games instead of the box scores.


I know they have, and I agree. They have been great together and have gotten more ice time in response to this: However, I am talking about 2 seasons ago, and to a certain extent last season as well. Tanev was not playing with Ballard back then, and Rome was put with Edler a lot.
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#5 Pears

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

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Talk about beating a dead horse...And as previously mentioned the Ballard-Tanev pair has been our best so far this season.
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#6 James van Riemsdyk

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:14 AM

Since his arrival in Vancouver, fans have said Ballard has not lived up to expectations. Part of this is because he was put on the bottom pairing, played in bad situations and received limited ice time. Fans have wondered why he is not used in the top 4, especially when Salo was out with injury. AV claimed it was due to neither Ballard or Edler able to play on the right side.

These last couple of games though, the top pairing has been:

Hamhuis - Elder

If you notice, Edler is playing the right side!

It seems to me this is a slap in the face to Ballard. Why did the never put Edler on the right side before with Ballard on the left?


We were being blessed by the talent of Aaron Rome last year, that's why AV didn't play either of them.
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#7 smithers joe

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

ballard is finally playing the way AV wants his D-men to play...he started playing better when he was paired with tanev...in the past, he was too out of position too much. good for ballard...i hope we can afford to keep him going forward?
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#8 Maniwaki Canuck

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:17 AM

No argument that AV hasn't always treated Ballard very well, but an Edler/Ballard pair never made much sense no matter who played the right side (as I think Ballard was asked to do the short while the two played together). At this stage, Ballard/Tanev is tried and true, Bieksa/Hamhuis wasn't as solid as in the past, and Edler/Garrison was a big problem so it makes sense to split up the last two pairs. Hamhuis/Edler at least gets Edler playing the right side with someone who is defensively and positionally solid. If it works out, it could be a more legit top pairing than Hamhuis/Bieksa. I'm also hoping Garrison/Bieksa can evolve into a decent two-way pairing, but it won't happen over night and we'll see.
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#9 pwnstar

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:19 AM

He was a beast last night
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#10 winthecup

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:21 AM

He was a beast last night

all the D-men were beasts last night against a very skilled bunch of forwards.
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#11 higgyfan

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

Since his arrival in Vancouver, fans have said Ballard has not lived up to expectations. Part of this is because he was put on the bottom pairing, played in bad situations and received limited ice time. Fans have wondered why he is not used in the top 4, especially when Salo was out with injury. AV claimed it was due to neither Ballard or Edler able to play on the right side.

These last couple of games though, the top pairing has been:

Hamhuis - Elder

If you notice, Edler is playing the right side!

It seems to me this is a slap in the face to Ballard. Why did they never put Edler on the right side before with Ballard on the left?


Other than his slapshot, Edler is looking awful on the right side.

Real happy to see Ballard playing well this year. It was only a matter of time that he would show his talent and skills. He had a lot of roadblocks along the way: injuries and adapting to a different style of play. He's a great team guy and can play physical when needed. Let's just be thankful for what he is currently bringing to the team.
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#12 Bodee

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

The trouble is Ballard's performance drops quite a bit if he is not on his natural side. I think we should use Ballard and Tanev more to rest our top two pairings. Surely that would pay dividends in the end.

Failing that trade them as a pair for something good that we need (maybe even include "a goalie" to make it even more attractive). They seem to me to be a viable 2nd line pairing on some teams.
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#13 playboi19

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

He's our last hip checker, Hamhuis has retired that hit.
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#14 Noheart

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

Comeback player of the year.


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#15 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

Ballard and Tanev better be getting as much even strength time as Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa and Garrison because right now they're playing far more solid defence in their own zone than our "top-4".

The only reason our top-4 end up with more ice time should be special teams, or if we're pressing for a goal. If we need to defend a lead I'd like to see Ballard and Tanev up in the 20-minute-mark because they do a better job defending than Edler and Bieksa for sure.
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#16 elvis15

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:41 PM

There's only one really recent Ballard thread, but there have been plenty others over the last year and beyond that people have argued this in.

Ballard reclamation project? (this one's from January this year, the rest are all last year)
What happened to Keith Ballard ?
What Should The Nucks Do About Ballard
Keith Ballard Is Worth $4.2 Million If He Gets Used...
What to do with Keith Ballard

The theme is all the same. At first, you see "AV hates Ballard, loves Rome", "Ballard would succeed in a top 4 role if only given the chance", "Ballard is used wrong", etc. Then you start to see evidence of how Ballard was given opportunity: when Salo went out and Ballard was put on Edler's right side, when Edler went out and Ballard was used there, Ballard was given time in the SCF. In all cases, Ballard failed to impress, didn't take advantage of the opportunity, and was shown up by others elevating their play (or at least playing responsibly in his place) when they were tried in those same roles.

People think AV hasn't given Ballard ample chance, when in fact he has. It was up to Ballard to make use of those opportunities, and he didn't. End of story.

Now, that doesn't mean he can't, or won't with other opportunities. That doesn't mean he won't find a home somewhere that will give him that opportunity. That doesn't mean he's no use anymore. That doesn't mean he couldn't be worth his salary, or at least close to it.

There's a resurgence in support for Ballard now that he's been playing well. He and Tanev have looked good, and it's not a mirage. They're driving possession and making plays, but they're also doing it in very selective minutes, facing the weakest competition of any of the Canucks D. AV is setting them up to succeed, and to play to their strengths, much like he has with giving the Sedins the most offensive starts of any forwards in the NHL last year, Malhotra the most defensive starts to take advantage of his faceoff ability, and how they showcased Cody Hodgson in the months leading up to his trade.

As far as Edler, he's a defenceman we've drafted, developed and just given a raise to. We have to see if he can step up since he's lined up as a part of our future. It's sink or swim with him, and he'll either learn or won't. If he doesn't it has far more impact on our future as a team than it does if Ballard fails.

Ballard was brought in to help fill out our defence, especially in the uncertainty of Mitchell leaving and whether or not we could get Hamhuis. He is a bonus if he works out, and we'll find ways to put him in positions to succeed if he doesn't at the higher levels. Unless he starts putting up 30-40 points again, he'll only ever be given limited chances and opportunities since he hasn't always been reliable defensively either.

Now, I'm not saying Ballard sucks. I like the guy, he's great in the locker room, a fantastic teammate, and fits well with Tanev to provide pretty good depth versus mots or the $1M D-men we could replace him with. But he isn't Edler, he doesn't have the draft day upbringing and top end potential Edler does, and he's likely to become a cap casualty as a result.

Hopefully we find a way to deal him to a team that can use him, since he deserves more than a buy out, and I know in the meantime he'll play his role and help us as much as he can.
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#17 oldnews

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

I like


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#18 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

Since his arrival in Vancouver, fans have said Ballard has not lived up to expectations. Part of this is because he was put on the bottom pairing, played in bad situations and received limited ice time. Fans have wondered why he is not used in the top 4, especially when Salo was out with injury. AV claimed it was due to neither Ballard or Edler able to play on the right side.

These last couple of games though, the top pairing has been:

Hamhuis - Elder

If you notice, Edler is playing the right side!

It seems to me this is a slap in the face to Ballard. Why did they never put Edler on the right side before with Ballard on the left?

Edit: To be clear, I am talking about two seasons ago, and even last season as well. I do realize Ballard and Tanev are great together this year.


Im just going to go ahead and say this. Ballard has not lived up to expectations. Period. 7 games has not changed that opinion for me, not yet, and not at that salary. That being said, I couldnt be happier with his play so far. He looks confident, and is playing with tenacity, and with that physical edge we need.

Ballard was given all the chances in the world to succeed and it just wasnt happening for him. It unfortunate it took so long, and given the current cap situation he will likely be traded, or bought out. Unless of course he manages to continue to outplay Bieksa, and so far that hasnt been that difficult.
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#19 elvis15

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

The trouble is Ballard's performance drops quite a bit if he is not on his natural side. I think we should use Ballard and Tanev more to rest our top two pairings. Surely that would pay dividends in the end.

Failing that trade them as a pair for something good that we need (maybe even include "a goalie" to make it even more attractive). They seem to me to be a viable 2nd line pairing on some teams.

This is what I find annoying about this situation and in general with Canucks fans. I'm not saying everyone has to be an in depth stats guy or follow every minute of play or anything like that - you can be a casual fan and still have an opinion and make comments. But if you want to make a thread detailing just how the player you like has been wronged, I'd like to see some effort in researching to find supporting evidence.

Not to pick on you, Bodee (even though you've had some doozies), but AV has been giving all three pairings more similar icetime. They've been used a little differently depending on situations, zones, even strength or not, etc. but he's given the 3rd pairing more icetime.

It's allowing him to rest his top 4 as much as is possible in a compacted season, hopefully keeping them fresh and avoiding injuries across the board since all are capable of reasonable minutes.

Here's the icetime so far this year (1-6):
Edler 23:39
Hamhuis 22:46
Garrison 22:20
Bieksa 22:04
Ballard 17:24
Tanev 16:47

Compare that to last year:
Edler 23:51
Bieksa 23:38
Hamhuis 23:25
Salo 20:26
Tanev 16:43
Ballard 15:33

Obviously Rome, Alberts and Gragnani there too (and notice how Salo was getting used less last year), but that's minutes per game, so you can see the Bieksa and Hamhuis are getting less, and Ballard has been getting more time. A minute or two in game time is more significant than it seems, and they've given Ballard two more minutes a game.

Here's the quality of competition they've been facing:
Garrison +1.9
Edler +1.6
Bieksa +1.4
Hamhuis +1.0
Ballard -0.3
Tanev -0.6

The top 4 is getting the tough minutes, while Ballard and Tanev are getting the easy minutes. It's only so easy to spread that around, so the top 4 still gets more time, but the 3rd pairing is getting opportunities like when they got put on the PP. So long as they don't drop the ball when they get chances, they'll keep getting chances.

Edited by elvis15, 02 February 2013 - 03:58 PM.

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#20 TheCammer

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

Since his arrival in Vancouver, fans have said Ballard has not lived up to expectations. Part of this is because he was put on the bottom pairing, played in bad situations and received limited ice time. Fans have wondered why he is not used in the top 4, especially when Salo was out with injury. AV claimed it was due to neither Ballard or Edler able to play on the right side.

These last couple of games though, the top pairing has been:

Hamhuis - Elder

If you notice, Edler is playing the right side!

It seems to me this is a slap in the face to Ballard. Why did they never put Edler on the right side before with Ballard on the left?

Edit: To be clear, I am talking about two seasons ago, and even last season as well. I do realize Ballard and Tanev are great together this year.

How was he screwed over? He was recovering from injuries and had a very slow start. When he did play he struggled at times. If the coach isn't confident in your play or perhaps your level of fitness you aren't going to play as much. We had other options so this meant Ballard didn't see the ice as much. Had we not signed Hamhuis after the Ballard trade it may have all gone down differently.

Edited by TheCammer, 02 February 2013 - 04:36 PM.

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#21 timberz21

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:23 PM

or ballard is just having a good year and if AV would have made him play more, he would have hurt our teams even more


who knows
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#22 honey badger36

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:42 PM

Ballard has been a great team mate and a true professional. I am pretty sure everyone who knows anything Knows that Bally is alot more talented than the role we have had him play here in Van. Truth be told we have desperately needed a right shooting D ever since he came here unfortunately for him our left side has always been so strong he is always the odd man out.
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