Smashian Kassian Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 True, not now. But 5-10 years is a long time? 5-6 years from now, Luongo would sill be there, no? Still, DiPietro is the biggest obstacle they have to overcome. Start it up from there and move on from there. I remember back in the day, somewhere around 1997... maybe '98 or so, laughing (lmao to be precise, as it was a new word to me at the time) so hard when I read an article about the Tampa Bay Lightning expecting to contend for the cup at and around 2002-2004. The thought seemed so farfetched at the time. Tampa was so deep down at the bottom of the pack. Times change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 ------------------------ Before the mods try to lock or delete this, please consider this separate from the Luongo trade thread, as that thread has currently been hijacked by a pissing contest between King of ES and whoever tries to begin a discussion. This thread will instead explore the possible trade destinations and return from those destinations. Based on the originality of this post, I feel it is far from redundant. That being said, if this doesn't generate discussion feel free to delete it. ------------------------ ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoosh Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I see where you are coming from. But the thing is, if they trade a future for Luongo now. Will that take a major piece away from the future? That will destroy what they have built up for the future. Like it did to Toronto and them prior with Yashin. If they were in a better position to make this move, then I would consider them a contender and an interesting one as they have nice pieces. But until then they just have to wait out the rebuilding process. If Lu is still here in 5 years, then maybe they give us call. And Hey, at this rate who knows, maybe he will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Again. We are on the same page here. Almost as close as Gillis is to getting what he want's for Luongo I am aware of the fact that you don't rebuild a franchise to be a cup contender by moving your best assets. But as always, you have to give some to get some. And they still have Tavares, Hamonic, Moulson, Bailey, Grabner and prospects like Niederreiter & Strome to build upon. And Reinhardt & Okposo of course if my deal won't go through for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I'll approach the topic at hand first from who would be interested and list them by just how viable an option they are. Then I'll bold the ones I think Luongo would actually want to go to. Toronto Florida - the most interest, the most rumours, etc. and both could use a top goalie to get them into the playoffs and build to contender status Philly Islanders Winnipeg Chicago San Jose - teams with current goalies who may or may not be good enough, unlikely unless they move who they currently have or go a different route New Jersey Tampa Bay Edmonton Washington - teams that either still have an established starter or very good young goalies intent on becoming starters, unlikely during this season but could be offseason bidders if their current goaltending situation isn't solid enough Columbus - bottom of the barrel, actually a good team but who wants to go there and they're 'trying' out two goalies that they hope are good enough at this point I don't think I left anyone out, as I don't think anyone else really fits. I ruled out Detroit, Anaheim, Calgary, Phoenix, Dallas, Colorado, Minnesota and Pittsburgh, who I've all heard mentioned on CDC of late. Anyone could surprise, but that leaves 12 teams. I think Luongo would like anything Eastern seaboard that could be competitive, although he might consider Chicago or perhaps San Nose if he thinks they can sustain their pace. Both are iffy with past history. History factors in with NYI as well and they along with Philly have significant goalie contracts already. Columbus fails on location and team issues of course, Winnipeg and Washington seem likely to stick with who they have along with Edmonton, who Lu probably wouldn't waive to nor would we trade to without a significant overpayment. Now, the more likely teams. New Jersey and Tampa are probably only likely in the offseason. NJ has Brodeur for two more years, but could make a play if they feel they can solidify their future beyond that. Cash is an issue and they'd prefer a younger option most likely. Tampa has a younger option in Lindback and are doing well enough on the scoresheet they could probably have Roloson back and still be fine. If they don't feel they can trust Lindback then maybe at the trade deadline but otherwise they wait - yet they are in a prime location if they did decide to entice Luongo and feel ready to contend. Toronto and Florida could happen anytime. Both with shaky goaltending and no closer to a playoff spot than most years if they don't improve something. Florida might actually take a step back without help, while Toronto seems close to taking a step closer, but both could crash at any point and need that playoff spot and to build to being contenders. Another year of missing won't cut it and Lu would go to either but prefers one (Gillis would agree if he had his pick of return). I won't get into what the GMs of those teams feel is right, or what they could offer. That's all been said plenty before and is common cause of some of the wild 'discussions' in the other thread when people disagree. Besides, it's late, I've typed this all up before - separately and together - and I've probably even crossed some wires with what I meant to say, but there it is. Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and thinks theirs doesn't stink. Feel free to tell me if mine does or not, for this post or the previous one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and thinks theirs doesn't stink. Feel free to tell me if mine does or not, for this post or the previous one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Solid post. I have no critique. Just interested as to why you don't think Washington is in that same category as Florida and Toronto? IMO they are there, they have young guys, but they aren't ready to carry the team. They are looking for a cup and Luongo would add what they need in his the confidence and backbone he would bring to the team. (Obviously the other reason I am asking is because I want Orlov lol ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Washington could work from a lot of perspectives if they were interested, but I really don't think they are. They have cap considerations when they carry some high priced talent already. They have a new coach so there is a transition period. They came into the season at least with way more trust in their goalies than Toronto, and probably Florida too. And the games/highlights I have watched appear like the goalies are trying but are getting hung out to dry while the team figures things out. My opinion is they'll get the team thing figured out and know that if they are better than the rest of their division they'll have a chance to beat anyone since they feel they'll have a goalie who will get hot, or at least play well enough to give them a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodee Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I really don't think we are building just now so I don't see the need to list so many "potentially" good players. You can throw all those who have not had 2 seasons in the NHL away for a start. Then you can throw away anyone under 6'-2" and 200lbs, we are trying to get bigger. Lastly I appreciate that you at least mention that one or two have a mean streak because most of the others don't. I've no real argument with the teams you selected except possibly the Oilers who we don't want to elevate any further and in any case would not be prepared imo to part with the calibre of player that would make it worth while. So for me your filter needs re-setting. You came closest when you mentioned Sbisa (who I am have suggested a number of times last year) Perry (Getzlaf is too unpredictable) I would substitute Ryan here too if we throw in a makeweight. At the Sharks, I like your Pavelski but I would rather have Clowe who has top 6 goal threat and top 6 enforcer in one. Florida is a bust for us. They have nothing except potential and I would only take Bjugstad if he came with Peter Mueller with Vancouver maybe throwing in Alberts+. Quite frankly, I know Lu has family down there but that roster is a mess. At Tampa I like Purcell but he seems to lack pushback for someone his size. I don't mind Bieksa stepping in for the Sedins but I draw the line at doing it for someone 6'-3" and 202lbs. No I would rather have Lecavalier or Hedman with us making up the weight on Hedman. Re-thinking I don't really see Washington as a partner but if I did I would be looking at playoff type players like Brouwer, Laich or Karl Azner. In summing up while I like quite a few of your young hopefuls, trading Lu, maybe even as a package (and I don't agree with this move anyway) is probably one of the few chances to get something big, something this team really needs and I don't see any of these "futures" helping us in our SC quest with our window closing. I feel our team is good but not a SC winning team. We might even struggle due to losing Lu. However where we do struggle is the attritional best of 7 format and it's effect on our relatively "light" players. We need to get bigger, meaner and acquire at least another 2 players who can dish it out as well as take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I worry for them about Holtby though, Nuevirth is better than some think but he isn't a starter. Holtby may go down the exact same road, very promising but doesn't pan out as a legit #1. I just want to get Orlov, brings something we have been missing since Ehrhoff left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 If NYI's are in no position to contend; equally Toronto would be foolish to trade young assets? Their assets they might need to fill big roles should Kessel not re-sign??? Especially after shedding Tim Connolly... My darkhorse is, ahem, Chicago. Much like San Jose, there is no incentive while they're top of the table. But last year they're goaltending was a question. The problem is deeper; Nick Leddy is an asset we could use, but at left D where we are stacked. So start thinking multiple trades or a 3 way? Let me dwell on that... And Florida makes less and less sense at this time of year while the Panther's are imploding. If the goalie ain't going to help, why give up assets? I'm off to research Washington. All real signals point to the Whitehouse... NYI is in no position to contend for a cup, trading future assets that will one day be far more valuable to them doesn't make any sense, as they are in no position to do that and add a star veteran. As we have seen with Yashin and Kessel, it can be a major mistake for a franchise. That's of course putting Dipietro aside, which is ultimately the biggest road block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoosh Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Nice to have a good discussion on it, rather than a circular argument with people who like to twist things. What do you think of getting Orlov? Someone I am really high on. I made this post in the other thread that should better explain what he brings: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Versteeg Bjustad Luongo Raymond Higgins 2nd in 2 years Burrows Kesler Kassian Sedin Sedin Versteeg Booth Bjustad Hansen Weise Lapierre Volpatti Hamhuis Garrison Edler Tanev Ballard Bieksa Schneider Lack solid gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I could see Gillis expanding this deal, (to include a few pieces moving either way) -would allow him to nail a few birds with one stone. Throw in Booth/Ballard, then his counterpart doesn't lose face in giving up more value. Van can also take a comparable contract back; provided the player is a useful piece with an expiring contract. Get younger, bigger & cheaper(for next season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Again. We are on the same page here. Almost as close as Gillis is to getting what he want's for Luongo I am aware of the fact that you don't rebuild a franchise to be a cup contender by moving your best assets. But as always, you have to give some to get some. And they still have Tavares, Hamonic, Moulson, Bailey, Grabner and prospects like derreiter & Strome to build upon. And Reinhardt & Okposo of course if my deal won't go through for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Update after period one Was / Pitt. 2 to 1 Pitt, goal tending not a strength for Washington, a nice save off Crosby breaking in aside. Both goals from the point; a big wide goalie like Lou might have??? MoJo not noticeable... Commentators suggesting Caps owner concerned about Ovechkin, plus they're not off to a great start; maybe a shake up coming? edit; now 4 to 1 Pitt in 2knd. Holtby should have made saves on the last two goals, where the first two you would like him to have done so, but could not lay direct blame. It's gettin hotter here! If NYI's are in no position to contend; equally Toronto would be foolish to trade young assets? Their assets they might need to fill big roles should Kessel not re-sign??? Especially after shedding Tim Connolly... My darkhorse is, ahem, Chicago. Much like San Jose, there is no incentive while they're top of the table. But last year they're goaltending was a question. The problem is deeper; Nick Leddy is an asset we could use, but at left D where we are stacked. So start thinking multiple trades or a 3 way? Let me dwell on that... And Florida makes less and less sense at this time of year while the Panther's are imploding. If the goalie ain't going to help, why give up assets? I'm off to research Washington. All real signals point to the Whitehouse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyTimeWithJeffCarter Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Luongo for Ovechkin? Ovechkin is struggling. The Caps have 2 wins. They need a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Versteeg Bjustad Luongo Raymond Higgins 2nd ... solid gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 As mentioned in the news thread: @BradZiemer Gillis & Gilman didn't appear to be at Friday's home game against Blackhawks. Now in Washington watching Caps play Penguins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 McGuire and co. speculating on Gillis being at the Wash/Pitts game:Not likely a casual scouting tripVan has two good goalies in play, very complimentary of Luongo's recent play with no negative talkSuggesting Wash prospects are a possible option, with Orlov, Kuznetsov and Forsberg mentioned specificallyOates under pressure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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