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Canucks have to re-consider the possibility of moving Cory Schneider? Don't they?


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#121 Canucksftw0205

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:53 PM

I know that we want to win now, but I think trading away Schneider would be a risky gamble. He's young, he's talented and he's got a long career ahead of him. Sure, Luongo's hot right now and he's got a good track record, but how much longer can he perform? He's getting older and we need to think more long term. Schneider's not having the start to the season that anyone imagined, but I still believe he's our go-to guy. Luongo's recent excellent performance hasn't changed my mind that Schneider should be the guy to keep.
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#122 Mookie Wilson

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 12:59 PM

Luongo reportedly asked to be traded. That's the crux.

And I don't blame him, given the constant scrutiny and criticism he's been subjected to.

Even if Luongo could be convinced to retract his trade request, I don't think it'd be wise to proceed with him. Let's say Schneider is traded for a handsome return. The Canucks have a strong season and win a few playoff rounds before being eliminated. Luongo has some sub-par performances in the final round, so fans and media react by calling for his his head, as is their custom. Now Luongo is again unhappy in Vancouver, but Schneider has already been traded, and Eddie Lack is not ready to takeover. This is a realistic and ugly possibility.

For perhaps the first time during his Canucks tenure, Luongo isn't at the moment under pressure in Vancouver - why criticize a guy who'll likely be traded within a couple weeks?. And it shows. He looks relaxed. He's playing very well.

But if Schneider is traded, the scrutiny on Luongo will be unlike ever before. Assume Schneider will play to his potential, and thrive with regular playing time. The ignorant hordes will be out with pitchforks every time Schneider has a good game. It will be like Hodgson vs. Kassian times a million. It will be an ugly scene, and a Stanley Cup victory is the only thing that could put it to rest.
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#123 The Creature Blue Lagoon

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:20 PM

ya like many have said schneider is for the future luongo can supply what 3-5 more years where schneider can supply 10 years lack and cannata are still relatively rookies in the ahl and only lack seems ready for back up position so we do have some goaltending depth but not enough to trade schneider and ride luongo til he retires or slows down


If Lack seems ready for a backup position, wouldn't this work in our favour trading Schneider in the off season. Bring in a backup in the Schneider trade, groom Lack behind Luo for the next 2-3 years then make the switch when Luongo REALLY is in the downward slope of his career. :huh:
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#124 Brendan Gaunce

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:44 PM

lu is the next brodeur
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#125 Sedinry

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:53 PM

If we trade Schneider.

It will be like if Montreal traded Price instead of Halak, it is something we will regret. Just watch.


Halak is a great goalie last time I checked in Blues, and they share goalie time more than Lu and Schneids is now.

LOL. Price is a good goalie for sure, so is Halak.
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#126 spliced

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:01 PM

I don't think it's quite hysterical to think Cory should be the number 1. He's had a very slow rise into the position he is in now and has proven himself at each step. He's just about as prepared to take over as a starter as he could possibly be. There are no guarantees that a player will succeed but it's a pretty reasonable expectation that he will.

Man if Gillis ever traded Schneider wow that would take some serious guts. It's one thing to have a Luongo trade not work out since trading Luongo is what is expected, plus it gets a big contract off the books and Luongo is older. But if a Schneider trade ever backfired I don't know how he could live that down.
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#127 Pineapples

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

Luongo played the first two games last year??? Did he not??

Games played: 2
SA% .891
GAA 3.59


Oops, I meant to say meltdown playoff game. Thanks for the catch.
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#128 higgyfan

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:59 PM

If Lack seems ready for a backup position, wouldn't this work in our favour trading Schneider in the off season. Bring in a backup in the Schneider trade, groom Lack behind Luo for the next 2-3 years then make the switch when Luongo REALLY is in the downward slope of his career. :huh:


Questionable whether Lack will be reliable, what with the hip surgery. Hopefully he returns to form, but there is no sure thing. If MG waits 2-3years "when Luongo Really is in a downward slope", the Nucks will never be able to dump that contract. Who would want a 5+M backup goalie?
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#129 Gonz

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

People forget that Lu pretty much said he's ready to move on. If he really wanted to stay he would of exercised his ntc, thereby forcing Gillis to trade schneider
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#130 kilgore

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:11 PM

I really really hope MG is not stupid enough to abandon his plans to move Luongo and keep Schneider as our #1 going forward.

Can you IMAGINE what would happen in this town if Lu, now alone and with all the pressure back on his shoulders, melts down again in the playoffs? And Schneider goes on to be spectacular playing on another team? Maybe even playing for another team in this years playoffs?

That would be the end of Mike Gillis in Vancouver.

What I hope, and assume, is that Lu is being showcased while he's on a role. Not because other GMs need to be educated on Roberto, but just to keep him in the limelight and remind the GMs of his potential. It can't hurt, lets put it that way.

As a supporter of Schneider being our #1, Lu playing so well is the best possible scenario for the team and its fans. Although I think its a mistake to let Cory rust on the bench TOO long. That means it will speed up the bidding war and get the deal done sooner rather than later.

I loved having Lu as our goalie, but its time to move on. He had his last chance starting last years playoffs, despite his backup having better numbers, and he blew it. Letting in 7 goals in 2 games with a .891 SP and 3.59 GA.

I only hope Schneids can continue to reign in his frustrations a little while longer and this doesn't fester into bad blood battle with AV even after Lu is gone. Because we all know who wins with that.
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#131 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

wrong


Brilliant!

Captain of your debating team...I think not.
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#132 smurf47

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

I know that we want to win now, but I think trading away Schneider would be a risky gamble. He's young, he's talented and he's got a long career ahead of him. Sure, Luongo's hot right now and he's got a good track record, but how much longer can he perform? He's getting older and we need to think more long term. Schneider's not having the start to the season that anyone imagined, but I still believe he's our go-to guy. Luongo's recent excellent performance hasn't changed my mind that Schneider should be the guy to keep.

Schneider had a bad game against Anaheim but has played very well since . The team got killed against the Sharks and one can;t fault Schneids for that one. He is still a fundamentally better goalie than Lou. Lou is hot now, the team is playing better and Lou has some puck luck (goal posts, nob of stick). Hes a streaky goalie but Schneids is more consistant and I believe is the future.
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#133 stawns

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

Brilliant!

Captain of your debating team...I think not.


don't know about that, but I clearly have a better understanding of what a trap is than you.
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#134 bobopan

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

Look if the Canucks truely had doubts about whether Schneider could handle full-time duties or not he'd be playing the majority of games now while we still have Luongo as insurance...thats not the case. Its a risk either way moving either guy... does 5? great regular season games change my confidence in Luongo come playoff time? Nope. I would be shocked to see Schneider moved. Hope this gets resolved soon and we can all move on with 1 ???? starter and none of this hoping the "other" guy fails crap but what the hell am i saying thats not gonna happen around here.
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#135 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

As important I forgot to mention the obvious.

Cory Schneider brings in a better return, for a team ready to win NOW.


But if Luongo is so much better, as everyone is claiming, how does Schnieder bring a better return?
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#136 stawns

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:13 PM

But if Luongo is so much better, as everyone is claiming, how does Schnieder bring a better return?


exactly, and if Schneider is so much more valuable to other teams, would it not stand to reason that he is more valuable to Vancouver?
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#137 Salmonberries

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

Schneider is more marketable by far. They may wind up having no choice, moving bobby was always going to be tough with that big ticket.
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#138 Primus099

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

Schneider is elite. He's destined to win.


he's played 72 games in the NHL, get serious.

he's not there yet
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#139 Primus099

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

But if Luongo is so much better, as everyone is claiming, how does Schnieder bring a better return?


younger, shorter contract, smaller caphit. potentially a future star goalie, but he's still a few years away from that imo
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#140 Sugar baby watermelon

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

Nope, Luo has been through so much with the media, fans and such, losing his starters status, he needs a new start somewhere else, it pains me to say it because I love Lou.
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#141 stawns

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

younger, shorter contract, smaller caphit. potentially a future star goalie, but he's still a few years away from that imo


so why would he command more than LUongo, a proven NHL vet? I don't buy that Schneider is still a few years away......he's the same age Lu was when he got to Vancouver. He's ready, and his play backs that up
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#142 stawns

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

Nope, Luo has been through so much with the media, fans and such, losing his starters status, he needs a new start somewhere else, it pains me to say it because I love Lou.


it's been a tough for him, but he brings much of it on himself
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#143 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:29 PM

I really really hope MG is not stupid enough to abandon his plans to move Luongo and keep Schneider as our #1 going forward.

Can you IMAGINE what would happen in this town if Lu, now alone and with all the pressure back on his shoulders, melts down again in the playoffs? And Schneider goes on to be spectacular playing on another team? Maybe even playing for another team in this years playoffs?

That would be the end of Mike Gillis in Vancouver.

What I hope, and assume, is that Lu is being showcased while he's on a role. Not because other GMs need to be educated on Roberto, but just to keep him in the limelight and remind the GMs of his potential. It can't hurt, lets put it that way.

As a supporter of Schneider being our #1, Lu playing so well is the best possible scenario for the team and its fans. Although I think its a mistake to let Cory rust on the bench TOO long. That means it will speed up the bidding war and get the deal done sooner rather than later.

I loved having Lu as our goalie, but its time to move on. He had his last chance starting last years playoffs, despite his backup having better numbers, and he blew it. Letting in 7 goals in 2 games with a .891 SP and 3.59 GA.

I only hope Schneids can continue to reign in his frustrations a little while longer and this doesn't fester into bad blood battle with AV even after Lu is gone. Because we all know who wins with that.


This is exactly my sentiment as well. Luongo has been fantastic for the team and the city, but everything runs its course, and I believe the teams relationship with Luongo is nearly at an end. Its not a personal thing, and no it is not an insult to Luongo. Its obvious he agrees, he wants to be traded. He is a professional and understands that playing and playing well will only further his own value and his professionalism only cements further that not only is Lu a top 10 in the league, but is the perfect mentor for a young tender on another team.

The people on this site and the media talk of how Lu doesnt have value on the trade market is complete nonsense. Gillis holding out is working exactly as he had planned, and he has no pressure to make a move. Teams have already started knocking. When Luongo all of the sudden isnt playing anymore, you will know a deal s close.
The chance of Gillis going back
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#144 Phil_314

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

people are thinking trading Schneider will get us more so that would probably get us a player that would help us right now and improve the team in front of Luongo, can't complain about that. But then it could backfire if Lu meltsdown or Schneider goes and becomes a superstar on the team we traded him to

or if you build for the future instead and trade Luongo for draft picks/prospects etc. and hope Schneider becomes the elite goalie everyone hopes he will be.

it's a gamble either way.


Exactly what's been bolded.

I think the best move would be to keep them both for at least THIS season, have Cory handle the starter's role with the majority of starts and Lu as a capable backup. That way, Cory has the chance to prove that, over an entire season, he can legitimately start several games in a row and handle a heavy workload.

See, the reason Lu's still valuable is that he's proven that can win games and carry the team on his back even if the offense dies, whereas Cory hasn't proven that as a starter. Cory may have won 20 games last season but again, he's not proven in the NHL of being able to go long stretches (Lu won 46 games in his best year; Cory hasn't come close to even PLAYING that many games yet). If Cory gets the starter spot but Lu's still around at least Lu could get wins, whereas if he's a fluke and Lu's been dealt already then no one would be around to cover for him (who would you count on to steal wins then? Lack?)

There have been many instances of one-season wonders in net who didn't have an older, established vet to bail them out and that can really tax them psychologically when they tank. Schneider may have all the potential in the world but he still needs a 1B who can come in and run with it for awhile in case he really struggles (he's similar to Varlamov really in that both are believed to be capable of running with it but both could use a solid fallback plan in net in case they struggle. I really think that, if Lu's salary wasn't so high and more like Giguere's, the constant discussions about moving him wouldn't even happen).

Then again, if the right return came for Cory I wouldn't mind if he goes and Lu stays, then Eddie can be groomed :P
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#145 snucks

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

We'd get a better return but Schneider is younger and would benefit our team for the future. We'd regret it if we traded him.

Thats right but, AV has his favorites, and they can stay. Luongo is my #1 AV said.
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#146 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

don't know about that, but I clearly have a better understanding of what a trap is than you.


wrong.
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#147 n00bxQb

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

If Luongo wants to stay here then trade Schneider.

The fact is that this is a team that's built to win now, not a team that's built to win 5 years from now. Luongo gives us the best chance to win this year and for the next few years.

However, if Luongo doesn't want to be here then you have to trade him. He has publicly stated multiple times that Vancouver isn't in HIS long-term plans, so it seems like we're going to have to trade him at some point. It's not good for player relations or agent relations to hold onto a guy who doesn't want to be there, not to mention potential locker room conflicts (Luongo is well-liked and all, but if he starts to struggle, which all goalies do, questions will be raised by his teammates about his commitment level).

At the end of the day, I think we're going to end up keeping Schneider and trading Luongo. As for when that actually happens, your guess is as good as mine.

Edited by n00bxQb, 03 February 2013 - 05:17 PM.

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#148 ForsbergTheGreat

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

younger, shorter contract, smaller caphit. potentially a future star goalie, but he's still a few years away from that imo

Why do you think he's still a few years away from that. He hasn't had the opportunity yet. He had a bad game against ANH. Other than that he's been solid posting a 1.66 GA in the last 3 games. He needs the opportunity to prove himself and show that he is capable of being that number one.
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#149 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

Alright, we seem to have that comparison in a different context, as I said specifics and circumstances are different, but the picture is basically the same, they went with the younger guy with high upside against fan opinion and it turned out to be the correct move.

Either way lets just put that aside anyways.

The perception and basis behind trading Schneider, is to improve our teams chances for this year right? By perceivably adding a star/impact player right?

How realistic is that? That's very unlikely to happen, odds are the deal we get will be a package of futures, they will be of higher quality of those we will get for Roberto, but the basis of moving Schneider (If you have that opinion for the better of the team, not for a personal bias toward Lu) is that it will make our team alot better for a cup run, futures don't do that.

Schneider is the more valuable piece to us aswell, not just to other teams, so if we are accepting futures in return for either goalie, I would just keep Schneider and Luongo for the time being, then trade Luongo for futures in the offseason.


Im not sure by what measure everyone thinks that Schneider will bring back a greater return? Luongo has at least 5 years left in him and has shown no signs of slowing down whatsoever. In fact, he has actually shown improvement in his game. Schnieder is great, but he is also unproven. With Luongo you know exactly what you will get.

His contract is also nothing of the albatross that people are making it out to be. At 5.3 his cap hit is very reasonable, and in 5 years his salary is cheaper than his cap hit making him extremely attractive to teams trying to reach the cap floor without having to spend.

Cory is the future of this team. I have no doubt thats who we will be going forward with, whether by the trade deadline or moving Lu in the off season.
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#150 kloubek

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:14 PM

Wow - a lot of bending of facts here.

A few points I'd like to mention:

First, Luongo has never said he wanted out of Vancouver as far as I know. He did say that he wouldn't want to play more than this year in Vancouver, but that was with the assumption he'd be playing backup to Schneider. When he wins his games and celebrates the win with the team on the ice, I think he looks happy actually.

Schneider would probably get a better return since he has a shorter, cheaper contract and more potential to improve whereas Luongo is at his peak already.

We can't just sign a guy for a few years, tell him he will be our #1, and then end up trading him. Plus, as has been pointed out, if he plays stellar for that other team and Luongo craps the bed in the playoffs, Gillis would probably lose his job.

Eventually, Luongo will be traded and Schneider will be the starter. Simple as that.
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