Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* * * * - 5 votes

Canucks have to re-consider the possibility of moving Cory Schneider? Don't they?


  • Please log in to reply
258 replies to this topic

#151 stawns

stawns

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,196 posts
  • Joined: 10-August 03

Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:20 PM

Wow - a lot of bending of facts here.

A few points I'd like to mention:

First, Luongo has never said he wanted out of Vancouver as far as I know. He did say that he wouldn't want to play more than this year in Vancouver, but that was with the assumption he'd be playing backup to Schneider. When he wins his games and celebrates the win with the team on the ice, I think he looks happy actually.

Schneider would probably get a better return since he has a shorter, cheaper contract and more potential to improve whereas Luongo is at his peak already.

We can't just sign a guy for a few years, tell him he will be our #1, and then end up trading him. Plus, as has been pointed out, if he plays stellar for that other team and Luongo craps the bed in the playoffs, Gillis would probably lose his job.

Eventually, Luongo will be traded and Schneider will be the starter. Simple as that.


no ever seems to answer this........so why would the Canucks want to trade Schneider then? If he's so valuable to other teams, wouldn't that value apply to the Canucks as well?
  • 2

#152 higgyfan

higgyfan

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,239 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

Wow - a lot of bending of facts here.

A few points I'd like to mention:

First, Luongo has never said he wanted out of Vancouver as far as I know. He did say that he wouldn't want to play more than this year in Vancouver, but that was with the assumption he'd be playing backup to Schneider. When he wins his games and celebrates the win with the team on the ice, I think he looks happy actually.

Schneider would probably get a better return since he has a shorter, cheaper contract and more potential to improve whereas Luongo is at his peak already.

We can't just sign a guy for a few years, tell him he will be our #1, and then end up trading him. Plus, as has been pointed out, if he plays stellar for that other team and Luongo craps the bed in the playoffs, Gillis would probably lose his job.

Eventually, Luongo will be traded and Schneider will be the starter. Simple as that.


Lu said, "It's time to move on."

If Nucks keep Lu and he 'craps the bed in the playoffs', Gillis deserves to be fired.
  • 1

#153 shazzam

shazzam

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,531 posts
  • Joined: 26-July 07

Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

based on what? a couple of regular season games?

if Luongo gets blown out tomorrow, do we have to re-consider again?
  • 0

#154 thema

thema

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Joined: 23-June 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:56 PM

Remember something folks: It is January/February which is when Lou plays his best hockey year after year. Just sayin'.
  • 0

#155 CRAZY_4_NAZZY

CRAZY_4_NAZZY

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,240 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 09

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:03 PM

Its probably due to sentimental value Luongo has brought to this team that makes me favour him over Schneider.

But than again Luongo is the franchise leading goalie for wins and shutouts for this team? Is he not the goalie with the second most winning goalie active in the leauge, behind no greater than Martin Brodeur a legend? Is Luongo not an already acccomplished goaltender with a pedigree nobody would pass up on?

Honestly I was pretty upset with Cody Hodgson leaving, but if Luongo went, I would be devastated.
  • 1

2moy3iq.png

 


#156 Vancanwincup

Vancanwincup

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 541 posts
  • Joined: 02-March 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

Does not matter who gets traded, this forum will have it fair share of posts about how the wrong man was traded and the return was not good enough. Gilllis we be called useless and then there will be 1000's of useless posts on what Gillis could have got.
  • 0

#157 Primus099

Primus099

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,009 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:29 PM

so why would he command more than LUongo, a proven NHL vet? I don't buy that Schneider is still a few years away......he's the same age Lu was when he got to Vancouver. He's ready, and his play backs that up


yeah but Lu had how many games under his belt when he came here? he was a well established starter.
  • 0

#158 Primus099

Primus099

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,009 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

Schneider had a bad game against Anaheim but has played very well since . The team got killed against the Sharks and one can;t fault Schneids for that one. He is still a fundamentally better goalie than Lou. Lou is hot now, the team is playing better and Lou has some puck luck (goal posts, nob of stick). Hes a streaky goalie but Schneids is more consistant and I believe is the future.


lol puck luck and the team is playing better? in Schneider's 4 games the team scored 13 goals. we've scored 6 goals in the last 3 games with Luongo, that's hardly stellar offense. Luongo has absolutely shut the other teams down and is the biggest reason we won the last 2 and the biggest reason we were even in it at all against the Kings.
  • 0

#159 canuck_trevor16

canuck_trevor16

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,657 posts
  • Joined: 15-January 07

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:36 PM

deleted

Edited by canuck_trevor16, 03 February 2013 - 10:37 PM.

  • 0

One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


WIN THE CUP FOR SALO CAMPAIGN

#160 Primus099

Primus099

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,009 posts
  • Joined: 17-October 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

How about this, they already shared the Jennings Trophy. They can share a Stanley cup too, don't trade either of them


/thread
  • 0

#161 SevenDays

SevenDays

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 66 posts
  • Joined: 23-March 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:50 PM

I want Schneider traded...

Just for the drama..

Nearly as entertaining as hockey, no?
  • 2

#162 Noheart

Noheart

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,810 posts
  • Joined: 01-June 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:58 PM

I have nothing against Cory Schneider and believe he isn't far away from elite goaltender status.

But he is still very unproven in comparison to Roberto Luongo.

With Luongo we get critical (and often overlooked) playoff experience and what no doubt is a much more mature goaltender than in years past.

He just might be our best option this spring.

Yes you could say I'm too into the current Luongo love-in. But we're we not all a little hysterical in anointing Cory Schneider our undisputed #1?

Yes he signed a 3 year deal under the presumption he'd be here, starting. But Roberto Luongo the man who has backstopped this team the past 6 seasons, signed a 12 year deal ALSO in good faith assuming he'd be here the rest of his career.

I know, the decision was made for on ice reasons only. But so is this one. Strictly business.


Do the Canucks not have to re-consider the possibility of moving Cory Schneider? If it makes the team better, it would be simply insane not to.


They have played 4 games each this season.

Relax!

We will see what Cory is made of his next start.
I believe this will be both a huge distraction and
competition between the 2.

We may have prematurely gave up on Luongo at times, but a lot of people are doing the same to Cory.

The one thing I don't understand is why everyone is against one or the other. Lets just win, and let it play out.

If they do trade Cory bet it's after the season. Be nice to have some meltdown insurance for both goalies.
  • 0
Posted Image

BEASTLY!!!

#163 Noheart

Noheart

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,810 posts
  • Joined: 01-June 12

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:05 PM

lol puck luck and the team is playing better? in Schneider's 4 games the team scored 13 goals. we've scored 6 goals in the last 3 games with Luongo, that's hardly stellar offense. Luongo has absolutely shut the other teams down and is the biggest reason we won the last 2 and the biggest reason we were even in it at all against the Kings.


I agree that Cory was a little snake bitten in SJ and it wasn't his fault at all.

The bottom line is Luongo has absolutely taken games away with some pretty unbelievable saves.

I am not Luongo fan but I am not blind you cannot deny his brilliance of late.
  • 0
Posted Image

BEASTLY!!!

#164 Avicii

Avicii

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,363 posts
  • Joined: 02-July 07

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:11 PM

There's a difference between Player Value and Trade Value.

For example, Lappy is a fan favorite and has the potential to be a fantastic 3rd liner for us (been playing pretty crappy of late though). What can he get on the open market though? Probably a late draft pick or something useless; however, to us he is worth much more than that.

In Schneider's case, he's not as valuable to us than to lets say, Toronto. Obviously this is only true because of Luongo.. Schneider also has more trade value because he is younger, and hasn't exactly solidified himself into an organization like Luongo has.
  • 0

Posted Image


#165 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,471 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:24 PM

Im not sure by what measure everyone thinks that Schneider will bring back a greater return? Luongo has at least 5 years left in him and has shown no signs of slowing down whatsoever. In fact, he has actually shown improvement in his game. Schnieder is great, but he is also unproven. With Luongo you know exactly what you will get.

His contract is also nothing of the albatross that people are making it out to be. At 5.3 his cap hit is very reasonable, and in 5 years his salary is cheaper than his cap hit making him extremely attractive to teams trying to reach the cap floor without having to spend.

Cory is the future of this team. I have no doubt thats who we will be going forward with, whether by the trade deadline or moving Lu in the off season.


Exactly, gotta keep Cory. His return is not going to make us outstandingly better and greatly improve our chances, it will be a package of young pieces, we could get that for Lu, and Schneider is the better option moving forward. No reason to deal him.
  • 0

zackass.png


#166 Kumquats

Kumquats

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,451 posts
  • Joined: 05-July 08

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:28 PM

Posted Image
  • 4

#167 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,471 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:37 PM

While I still don't agree with your Montreal theory, it doesn't matter anyway since it's completely different players and the outcome will be totally different.

And yes I think trading Cory will help the team now more than trading Lu. Who's to say that Lu will get us an impact player whereas Cory will only get us a future package?

If we keep Lu, then by the time he retires, one of our minor goalies can take his place. So I'm not worried about goaltending for the future.


I don't think either will get us impact players, both will get us a package of futures, niether would help us significantly right now if it all. The basis behind trading Cory would be to get a impact/star player without overpaying, that won't happen, therefore Cory shouldn't go. Right now they are equal, they both give us equal opportunity to win currently, and Schneider is the better option for the future.

Unless a deal for Cory adds an impact player that we need without overpaying and would make sense in the long run, or we get a future asset that is just remarkably good and more valuable than Cory. If those don't happen, then we keep him and Roberto is the one on the market.

And then unless a deal for Roberto helps us out right now and adds an impact player, or gives us a package of futures that we know likely won't be avaliable in the offseason, then we keep Roberto for now aswell and move him in the offseason for futures.

Unless a deal for Cory is remarkably good, he's the one who stays, we have already alienated Roberto and he wants to go elsewhere anyways.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 03 February 2013 - 11:39 PM.

  • 0

zackass.png


#168 NZCanuck

NZCanuck

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 631 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 07

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:50 PM

no ever seems to answer this........so why would the Canucks want to trade Schneider then? If he's so valuable to other teams, wouldn't that value apply to the Canucks as well?


Not necessarily. The Canucks window to win is effectively now and management may believe that Lu best gives them that ability. Trading Schneider rather than Luongo is basically saying we are going for it now and we are going to do a trade that helps in the short term.
  • 0

#169 NZCanuck

NZCanuck

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 631 posts
  • Joined: 11-April 07

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

Personally I think the major issue is Lack's injury. A healthy Lack provides a potentially strong replacement for Schneider in 2-4 years when Lu's window is gone (yes I know there is no guarantee of success but he is tracking incredibly strong).

The issue now will be how Lack recovers from what is a major surgery for a goalie. Does he rehab well and not miss a beat or does he become a Dipietro type where an injury holds him back.
  • 0

#170 Pineapples

Pineapples

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,375 posts
  • Joined: 15-June 10

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

I don't think either will get us impact players, both will get us a package of futures, niether would help us significantly right now if it all. The basis behind trading Cory would be to get a impact/star player without overpaying, that won't happen, therefore Cory shouldn't go. Right now they are equal, they both give us equal opportunity to win currently, and Schneider is the better option for the future.

Unless a deal for Cory adds an impact player that we need without overpaying and would make sense in the long run, or we get a future asset that is just remarkably good and more valuable than Cory. If those don't happen, then we keep him and Roberto is the one on the market.

And then unless a deal for Roberto helps us out right now and adds an impact player, or gives us a package of futures that we know likely won't be avaliable in the offseason, then we keep Roberto for now aswell and move him in the offseason for futures.

Unless a deal for Cory is remarkably good, he's the one who stays, we have already alienated Roberto and he wants to go elsewhere anyways.


You would have to think that if a team wanted one of our goalies, they would prefer the younger one. Therefore they would probably give up more to get him as well. Factor in that we can trade Cory anywhere and his value should be higher. Enough to get an impact player if the right scenario pans out.

Though I don't see a deal being done anyway unless a team really needs goaltending help this season. Otherwise we'll most likely wait till next summer.
  • 0

Pineapple_jumps.gifPineapple_jumps.gif

 


#171 AFrame14

AFrame14

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: 20-April 09

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

Loungo is a great regular season goalie. Come playoffs he melts down against certain teams, ( Chicago 3 years in a row, Boston!!) We can't win with him. Trade him now while he's playing well. Cory is def good enough to win, he jus needs his chance as #1.
  • 1
NUCKS FOR THE CUP

#172 AFrame14

AFrame14

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,411 posts
  • Joined: 20-April 09

Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:57 PM

Loungo is a great regular season goalie. Come playoffs he melts down against certain teams, ( Chicago 3 years in a row, Boston!!) We can't win with him. Trade him now while he's playing well. Cory is def good enough to win, he jus needs his chance as #1.
  • 0
NUCKS FOR THE CUP

#173 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,471 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:10 AM

False, Price is the yougner than Halak, you can't compare both situation. To be in the same situation Luongo would have to be 2 years yougner than Schneider. The situation, here in Montréal, was a no brainer, the yougner, the higher potential and the better keeper at that time was Price.


Luongo is the one on a roll that is older and have gained fan support, Schneider is the younger guy with sky high potential that lost his starting job.

The situations aren't a dead ringer by anymeans, but there are comparables for either side of the argument.

We need to keep Cory, MTL chose the younger guy with the sky high upside and they got rewarded for it, we must do the same.

Unless a deal comes along that is just remarkably good for Cory or a deal comes along that helps us right now or gives us futures that won't be avaliable at a later date, then we should hold onto both, and move Lu is the offseason for futures.
  • 0

zackass.png


#174 Watermelons

Watermelons

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,633 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 11

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:14 AM

If we trade Schneider.

It will be like if Montreal traded Price instead of Halak, it is something we will regret. Just watch.


I don't get the comparison though.

Price was more established and proven at the time (and in our case this is definitely Luongo)

Halak was the unproven goalie who was brilliant when he was given chances to play (our Schneider)


So according to that comparison, if we trade Luongo (Price) then we will regret it? (But of course there is the age factor)

Edited by monkeydluffy, 04 February 2013 - 12:15 AM.

  • 0

tumblr_lv6jbk180f1r5jtugo1_250.gif  Kirby_eats_a_watermelon.gif 


#175 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,471 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:24 AM

I don't get the comparison though.

Price was more established and proven at the time (and in our case this is definitely Luongo)

Halak was the unproven goalie who was brilliant when he was given chances to play (our Schneider)


So according to that comparison, if we trade Luongo (Price) then we will regret it? (But of course there is the age factor)


Just responded to this:


Luongo is the one on a roll that is older and have gained fan support, Schneider is the younger guy with sky high potential that lost his starting job.

The situations aren't a dead ringer by anymeans, but there are comparables for either side of the argument.

We need to keep Cory, MTL chose the younger guy with the sky high upside and they got rewarded for it, we must do the same.

Unless a deal comes along that is just remarkably good for Cory or a deal comes along that helps us right now or gives us futures that won't be avaliable at a later date, then we should hold onto both, and move Lu is the offseason for futures.


  • 0

zackass.png


#176 Watermelons

Watermelons

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,633 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 11

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:26 AM

no ever seems to answer this........so why would the Canucks want to trade Schneider then? If he's so valuable to other teams, wouldn't that value apply to the Canucks as well?


That's definitely true. But, our team is built to win now. We want a goalie who is in his prime now with the current core...If we choose Schneider, it may be beneficial in the future but we may have to wait a few years for him to get used to playing as a number 1 and for him to develop his skills.

Schneider is NOT NHL proven. Don't even try to argue that. Including playoff games, Schneider has a total of 76 games under his belt. That isn't even one full NHL regular season over his three years of playing. (In comparison, Luongo has played 59 playoff games) Do we want to stick to a goalie who isn't proven yet? (I'm not saying that Schneider won't do well, just providing a different perspective).

Schneider will also be more valuable to other teams than to us because we already have Luongo and Lack. Teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay don't have as strong of a goalie pool to choose from and will value a good goaltender more than we do. Of course, whether or not the teams want our goalies is a different question altogether....

Just to clarify, I am a Luongo fan but I feel that both goalies should be given a chance to play this season before the Canucks trade one of them.
  • 1

tumblr_lv6jbk180f1r5jtugo1_250.gif  Kirby_eats_a_watermelon.gif 


#177 The Bookie

The Bookie

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,548 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:27 AM

no ever seems to answer this........so why would the Canucks want to trade Schneider then? If he's so valuable to other teams, wouldn't that value apply to the Canucks as well?


It would be a combo of the current window closing/staying with a veteran + the timing with Eddie Lack coming up working out better. Assuming Lack starts taking on more starts gradually over the next 2-4 yrs as Lu's playing starts to decline, making for (theoretically) a smooth transition.

Not saying I believe this to be the best option, just answering your question.
  • 0

#178 Watermelons

Watermelons

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,633 posts
  • Joined: 16-June 11

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

Just responded to this:


Choosing the player with "sky high upside" might not always work out. Islanders chose Rick Dipietro who was projected to be an elite goaltender in the NHL over Luongo, tell me how that worked out?
(The situation with the Islanders was different than the one with the Canucks...I'm just trying to say that choosing potential might not always work out)
  • 0

tumblr_lv6jbk180f1r5jtugo1_250.gif  Kirby_eats_a_watermelon.gif 


#179 VanNuck

VanNuck

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,180 posts
  • Joined: 09-February 09

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:42 AM

Keep them both this year. They might win a Cup together, and then one of them can be traded happy, taking his ring to a new team.
  • 0

#180 Smashian Kassian

Smashian Kassian

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,471 posts
  • Joined: 10-June 10

Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:45 AM

Choosing the player with "sky high upside" might not always work out. Islanders chose Rick Dipietro who was projected to be an elite goaltender in the NHL over Luongo, tell me how that worked out?
(The situation with the Islanders was different than the one with the Canucks...I'm just trying to say that choosing potential might not always work out)


There is a major difference in that comparison than the one I made.

Both goalies hadn't played in the NHL, both were unproven and both had elite potential. In the MTL comparison there was atleast some basis to make a deal off.

Either way we should throw all this stuff aside. Unless a deal for Cory comes along that is just remarkably good, Roberto should be the one to go.
  • 0

zackass.png





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.