Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 With Gillis & Gilman at the WSH game today, it made me think of possibilities between these two teams.. Some things to consider: 1. Washington's PK is 25th in the league. 2. Washington needs a shake-up badly. They're 2-6-1 and last in their conference in a 48 game season. 3. Vancouver's biggest criticism each playoffs is that they get pushed around too easily. Kassian has improved on that, but I don't think it's perfect. 4. Washington has been horrible in the face-off dot. So, the trade: To Washington: Mason Raymond, Manny Malhotra, 3rd round pick 2013 To Vancouver: Troy Brouwer, Eric Fehr This gives Washington a brand new look on the PK, some speed and a great face-off man who's big contract is about to expire. They lose some size in their line-up. For Vancouver, they take a hit on their center depth & face-off depth. But they gain two big bodies. One of which can definitely step-into the top 6. Brouwer: From Vancouver, 215 pounds, 6'4, RH, can play any forward position. Has a cup. Fehr: Had a good start to the year in Europe but so far hasn't been able to get a point this year. He's another big body at 6'3, 210 pounds. Has some offensive potential. *Has been a HS this year.. With Kes & Booth out, Schroeder gets some much needed size to his line.. Sedin - Sedin - Kassian Brouwer - Schroeder - Fehr Higgins - Burrows - Hansen Volpatti - Lapierre - Weise When they get back, the Canucks have a playoff perfect forward line-up if Schroeder can continue to play well.. Sedin - Sedin - Kassian Brouwer - Kesler - Booth Burrows - Schroeder - Hansen Higgins - Lapierre - Fehr Weise/Volpatti/Ebbett If not a 3rd line C must be necessary in the Luongo deal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allkill326 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 We would really not give up Malhotra, since he is the best faceoff man on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thought this was going to be a Luongo deal. I'm going to say no, Manny for Fehr is a loss for us IMO, Fehr is the better player, but Manny fits our roster more, we need a very good faceoff man, and Manny is the best in the NHL. Brouwer is a great physical player with some offensive flare aswell, and in a swap for Raymond wouldn't stockpile unnecessary wingers, which is something I like. But our issue in the playoffs has been scoring, our secondary scoring has been non-existent. Now that Raymond has found his form, and found significant chemistry with Schroeder. I don't think he is someone we should move, as he adds key secondary scoring. We have gotten bigger and more physical, I think we are fine in that department now. We need to score and Raymond brings more offense than Troy. Equal deal value wise, just don't think it suits our team personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James van Riemsdyk Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Manny Malhotra NTC, They're not giving us 2 big 30point scorers for a small 30 point scorer if lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'd do it. Our centers can be much better at faceoffs than they have shown so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 But our issue in the playoffs has been scoring, our secondary scoring has been non-existent. Now that Raymond has found his form, and found significant chemistry with Schroeder. I don't think he is someone we should move, as he adds key secondary scoring. We have gotten bigger and more physical, I think we are fine in that department now. We need to score and Raymond brings more offense than Troy. Equal deal value wise, just don't think it suits our team personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoolander Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm not sold on Fehr.....he was garbage in WPG, and he'd be a gamble, Brouwer is a lot more proven. It all depends on what MG wants in return, but here are the 3 areas I bet Gillis is looking at: High Level Prospect: Forsberg/Kuznetsov (Kuz is more NHL ready but Forsberg looks like more of a sure-fire thing to come over and not stay in Europe) Big Top 9 Forward: Brouwer/Laich (Both are very good 2-way forwards who can hit, and play a good all-around game) D-Men/ Draft Picks: Alzner/Orlov or 1st/2nd rd pick (Alzner = RH D-Man, Born in BC, Orlov = More offensive potential) The 1st/2nd rd pick will probably be conditional A Dream scenario IMO would be Forsberg,Brouwer, and a 1st rd pick/Alzner for Luongo,Raymond, and a 3rd rd pick Oops, I jumped to the conclusion that this was a Luongo thread....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Manny Malhotra NTC, They're not giving us 2 big 30point scorers for a small 30 point scorer if lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'm not sold on Fehr.....he was garbage in WPG, and he'd be a gamble, Brouwer is a lot more proven. It all depends on what MG wants in return, but here are the 3 areas I bet Gillis is looking at: High Level Prospect: Forsberg/Kuznetsov (Kuz is more NHL ready but Forsberg looks like more of a sure-fire thing to come over and not stay in Europe) Big Top 9 Forward: Brouwer/Laich (Both are very good 2-way forwards who can hit, and play a good all-around game) D-Men/ Draft Picks: Alzner/Orlov or 1st/2nd rd pick (Alzner = RH D-Man, Born in BC, Orlov = More offensive potential) The 1st/2nd rd pick will probably be conditional A Dream scenario IMO would be Forsberg,Brouwer, and a 1st rd pick/Alzner for Luongo,Raymond, and a 3rd rd pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 How exactly has Raymond 'come into form'? Brouwer and Raymond offensively have about the same abilities 30-40 pointers who might put up a bit more on a good line. The difference is Raymond is a faster forward, and due to this is good at penalty killing and getting back defensively without trouble. While, Brouwer, is a more physical forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Raymond has been playing alot better than he has over the last two years. And Raymond does bring more offense, he has a higher skill level, if you needed a top 6 forward (say both were on the 3rd) You would probably choose Raymond. And I don't think Brouwer is a need, I think our physicality issues were overrated, but that aside we did improve physically by alot. I don't see it as an issue, our issue is offense, executing and coaching/systems. And those 1st 2 are areas in which Raymond is better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Raymond has been playing alot better than he has over the last two years. And Raymond does bring more offense, he has a higher skill level, if you needed a top 6 forward (say both were on the 3rd) You would probably choose Raymond. And I don't think Brouwer is a need, I think our physicality issues were overrated, but that aside we did improve physically by alot. I don't see it as an issue, our issue is offense, executing and coaching/systems. And those 1st 2 are areas in which Raymond is better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 In theory, just imagine the line-up if GMMG trades Luongo as well this season.. If he can snag a 3rd line center like Sam Gagner, or better Stephen Weiss, the top-9 would look real solid Sedin - Sedin - Kassian Burrows - Kesler - Booth Brouwer - Gagner - Hansen Higgins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 This team needs more center depth; it's scary how bad it is when either Henrik or Kesler is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I'll believe that when I see more consistency offensively. He's always been reasonable in other areas but we know what we're going to get at best with Raymond. It's not bad but it's hardly going to be amazing either, especially in the playoffs. I wouldn't say Brouwer is the solution, and expecting Malhotra to waive his NTC for that is wishful thinking but it's ok I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Do we have confidence that Brouwer will put up a pro-rated 20 goals and 40 points again though? As like Raymond he has had 1 year with that. I don't really have absolute confidence either can bring consistent production, but in the new NHL you have to take risks alot. Either way Brouwer just isn't a need for us, we have already addressed the component that he brings. We need secondary scoring, that has been our downfall, and while Raymond has been inconsistent in prior years, all indications so far indicate he has really picked it up, and Raymond on his game brings more offensive skill. Either way I don't think the deal would be beneficial because of the Manny/Fehr swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 This team needs more center depth; it's scary how bad it is when either Henrik or Kesler is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 The difference is when Raymond isn't scoring he isn't doing much for the Canucks, because they have: Burrows, Kesler, Hansen, Higgins and Malhotra (of course not of this trade went through) and last year they also had Pahlsson who can all PK as well or better than Raymond. If everyone was injured, the Sedins can also PK although AV doesn't like to do that. When Brouwer isn't scoring, he's grinding, fighting, hitting, etc.. What do you mean all indications say that Raymond has picked it up? He has 3 goals, 0 assists in 8 games. His 3 goals all came in a 2 game span. So, he's had 5 games/8 without registering a point this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Sometimes a movement is lateral, but that's not always a good reason to make it. Not terribly excited about it, the Raymond/Brouwer swap might make us tougher to play against, but not sure losing Manny's faceoff ability in exchange for Fehr is a lesser evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 Let's be fair, he is playing on a 3rd line with A rookie getting adjusted and Dale Weise. Brouwer has 4 points and is a minus, he is playing a better role with better players. Aside from just points you can see Raymonds game has improved. We have players who can do what Brouwer does, Hansen brings the same thing, just less size, more skating. Same level of physicality, and maybe a bit less offense but then again Hansen hasn't had the opportunities Brouwer has. the flip side of it is when Raymond is on he s one of our best players and most dangerous offensive threats, and when he isn't scoring he can still use his speed effectively to create opportunities atleast this Raymond can. The same can be said for Brouwer, when he is on his game he hits, and can chip in offensively, when Brouwer is inconsistent he might not do either all that well. If a top 6 forward went down, I would personally rather Raymond in our top 6 than Brouwer. But thats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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