Judge throws teen in jail for 30 days for giving him the finger.

[Buddhas Hand]

That does not appear to me to be the lesson.

You prefer that she continued to act badly and not to have apologized for her previous bad behaviour?

The whole point of criminal contempt proceedings is to apply coercive measures that correct behaviour. The acknowledgement that such measures have worked is when the contemptor appears before the presiding judge and purges her/his contempt. It is then up to the presiding judge to determine if the apology and/or explanation is sufficient for him to modify his order.

[Buddhas Hand]

It seems that ratio is assuming an awful lot to me. But maybe I am just a bit more forgiving, I don't know. That's his opinion and he is entitled.

[pimpcurtly]

Mate do you seriously think she was truly repentant , that she was not acting out of fear of going to gaol , and that there was no pressure from her parents and/ or lawyers to act in the way she has ?

[Wetcoaster]

What i am saying is that a person should not be taught that crying , lieing and acting repentant should mean that they escape the consequences of their actions.

Man in court for stealing a car , i am so sorry judge , i did not mean to steal that car , i was on drugs , i will never do that again.

Judge , OK mate i will just rescind that 5 year jail sentence becuase i think you are really sorry for what you did

As i have posted earlier in this thread , a man gets 15 days for murdering someone , rapists walk free due to legal technicalities , that lawyers make a fortune from exploiting , and this GIRL gets 30 days for flipping the bird , and then escapes the penalty by faking repentance.

This whole incident is a farce , and is just a blind justice system saying , you will acknowledge my authoritah.

Lets say i

[Buddhas Hand]

I am not about to assume all that. I believe she now understands how NOT to act in the presence of a judge.

[Mr. Ambien]

What you are unable to see could fill volumes or a large hard drive.

I set out the applicable law and legal principles early on, applied them to the facts and that is pretty much exactly how this matter played out - in accordance with what I posted.

No problem here, the judge dealt with the matter summarily. Hopefully Ms. Soto has learned her lesson and in future will not be one of the defendants clogging up the system. Seems to me Ms. Soto required a much needed lesson and she received it.

One can only hope the lesson stays with her. But then I am kind a of a glass half full cockeyed optimist, eh?

[Buddhas Hand]

It is up to the judge hearing from the comtemptor attepting to purge his/her contempt as to whether the person is sincere and credible. In this case the judge determined her to be so and I agree. Had he not made that determination he could have sent her back to serve 25 more days.

In Canada we have only one sentence for murder - life. The sentence may vary in other Anglo-American jurisdictions but I find it difficult to believe a person convicted of murder would receive 15 days in prison.

Persons are only convicted of crimes when the state proves all the elements of the crime and in the case jurisdictions with Charters/Bills of Rights, that those rights not been breached.

This woman was jailed for 5 days for contempt of court.

[pimpcurtly]

Pimpcurtly i respect you and find myself agreeing with you most of the time , but in this case i feel the wrong message has been sent , one though that unfortunately fits in todays world where so many people seem to want to avoid taking responsibility for their actions

[Buddhas Hand]

I appreciate the respect and ditto for you. I am willing to accept that maybe I am being naive on this one. But until she proves it to me otherwise, I am going to take her word for it. Yes, her lawyer and parents were probably telling her to say all that BUT we have no evidence to suggest she was being insincere, at least not in my opinion. And as you, I believe people should be held accountable for their actions. Her recognizing her mistake and showing remorse(which I know you think was forced) is a big part of being held accountable. The judge felt she was sincere in her apology(as did I) so that is good enough for me.

[canucks since 77]

The punishment isn't excessive, it's a waste. Something is clearly wrong with a society that seeks imprisonment as punishment instead of ordering the accused into a useful venture while providing counselling or psychiatric care (especially for young adults involved in non-violent crimes). Yes the judge has the power to do what he wants in his courtroom but it hardly means that he has the ability to be uniformally objective when exercising his power, he is human after all.

I have to add that noone deserves respect simply because of a title or a uniform (a concept lost on those living in a fascistic society). History has shown that power more often than not, corrupts. Many people learned painful lessons as to why respect is earned no matter which institution demands it.

[pimpcurtly]

This is one of the reasons why i respect you , because you ALWAYS show respect to others.

[Buddhas Hand]

I'm showing my parents this post lol!! I always try to be respectful on here and in life in general. I know that, as the board rules state, you'll find every opinion imaginable on here so I try not to get too worked up anything I read. You seem pretty respectful and level-headed yourself.

[pimpcurtly]

Brother , the over riding dynamic of my life is to treat others the way i want to be treated myself , but this an ideal i strive for , i am far from perfect but when i fail i pick myself up and try better next time .

[Wetcoaster]

We are not talking about the canadian judicial system , we are discussing the american judicial system.

The rich do sometimes get away with murder

• March 21, 2009

• By: Dave Gibson

Millionaire New York software mogul George Anderson was recently sentenced to 15 days in jail for a January 2008 incident in which Anderson hit and killed a pedestrian, while driving drunk.

Anderson, the CEO of Engineering Enterprises Inc. was originally charged with vehicular manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide but was allowed to plead guilty to only a misdemeanor DWI and leaving the scene of an accident.

His victim, Florence Cioffi, was just leaving a party with friends, where they celebrated her upcoming 60^th birthday. She was attempting to hail a cab, when Anderson’s Mercedes SUV mowed her down.

Witnesses said that Cioffi’s body was thrown into the air upon impact. She was taken to New York Downtown Hospital and pronounced dead on arrival.

Anderson was driving 60 mph down Water St. in lower Manhattan when he hit Cioffi Attorney Jeffrey Minsk who is representing her family, said that witnesses stated Anderson never applied the brakes after running over Cioffi.

The New York Post reported that though Anderson’s passenger begged him to stop, he sped away, leaving the woman in the street. Anderson returned about 20 minutes later.

Upon his return, Anderson refused to take a breathalyser test, to determine his blood alcohol content (BAC). According to the police report, Anderson’s eyes were bloodshot and his speech was slurred. After he was placed under arrest, he was taken to the hospital for a court ordered blood test. The results of that test have never been disclosed to the public.

Ironically, Cioffi was actually a survivor of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center, by chance she went on a coffee break just before the first plane slammed into the buildings. She was a 27 year employee of the insurance firm Frenkel & Co., where she worked as a private asset manager.

Her longtime fiance, William Mosca said: “She survived the trade center, and she was run down like a dog in the street.”

Cioffi and Mosca had lived together for 16 years in Brooklyn's Gerritsen Beach neighborhood.

Shortly after the sentence was read, Cioffi’s sister, Lily Alias stated: "While we never expected a death sentence or an extraordinarily long prison term, a plea arrangement which amounts to nothing more that 15 days is simply insufficient.”

In addition to his 15-day jail sentence, Anderson will have to pay a $350 fine.

Under the original charges, Anderson could have been sentenced up to 7 years in prison.

While Anderson’s plea agreement is an insult to Cioffi’s family, the sentence imposed by Judge James Burke is light even considering the lesser charges.

Under New York law, a first conviction DWI is indeed considered a misdemeanor. However, depending upon the circumstances, a sentence of up to a year in jail is possible. Also, leaving the scene of an accident resulting in personal injury is a Class A misdemeanor, which is punishable by up to a year in jail, and a fine of $500-$1000.

Cioffi family attorney Jeffrey Minsk summed up the sentence when he told reporters: "The sentence is unjust...Essentially what happened is a rich man got away with murder.”

In a country where a billionaire scam artist can steal the life’s savings of his clients, and continue living in his luxurious Manhattan penthouse; and a millionaire can get loaded and run down someone’s mom in the street, and receive only a two-week sentence…Is it any wonder why the American people are angrier than ever?

As Thomas Jefferson once said: "Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.”

Of course your chances of getting away with murder are exponentially greater re the amount of money in your back account .

[Wetcoaster]

I dunno why all the patting self on the back when it was plainly stated in an article 9 out of 10 people knew "how it would play out". How it would play out, and how it should play out are two different things. You are incapable of following a discussion of opinions and limit yourself to the superficiality of "facts" that every single person already understands. I don't see the extensive wisdom you're parading around.

[Buddhas Hand]

There are in fact numerous different criminal jurisdictions in the US - one for each state and a federal system.

In this particular case criminal contempt in the face of the court is a matter of common law and inherent jurisdiction of a judge which legal principles are pretty much the same in the US, Canada and the UK - which is unsurprising as they derive from a common source.

You need to understand the legal terms. What you described is not murder, certainly not in the classic legal sense. Murder is a crime of specific intent.

The common formulation in the United States "Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought."

Criminal Code of Canada, at ¶229 defines "culpable homicide" as "murder where ...":

"The person who causes the death of a human being means to cause his death, or means to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not;

"A person, meaning to cause death to a human being or meaning to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and being reckless whether death ensues or not, by accident or mistake causes death to another human being, notwithstanding that he does not mean to cause death or bodily harm to that human being; or

"A person, for an unlawful object, does anything that he knows or ought to know is likely to cause death, and thereby causes death to a human being, notwithstanding that he desires to effect his object without causing death or bodily harm to any human being."

Depending upon the jurisdiction the circumstances you describe would be prosecuted under a variety of names but it is not murder. In that case the original charges were vehicular manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide - not murder.

vehicular manslaughter n. the crime of causing the death of a human being due to illegal driving of an automobile, including gross negligence, drunk driving, reckless driving, or speeding. Vehicular manslaughter can be charged as a misdemeanor (minor crime with a maximum punishment of a year in county jail or only a fine) or a felony (punishable by a term in state prison) depending on the circumstances. Gross negligence or driving a few miles over the speed limit might be charged as a misdemeanor, but drunk driving resulting in a fatality is most likely treated as a felony. Death of a passenger, including a loved one or friend, can be vehicular manslaughter if due to illegal driving.

http://legal-diction...ar manslaughter

In the UK the charge would "causing death by dangerous driving" and "causing death by careless driving while unfit through alcohol/over prescribed limit".

In Canada the charges in those circumstances could be impaired driving causing death, over .08 blood alcohol causing death or criminal negligence causing death.

In each case you would have to examine the statute to determine the range of punishment for the offence charged and also read the case law to determine what past case precedent would be to set a sentencing range.

[Wetcoaster]

RIGHT , you can run someone down in your car while under the influence of alcholol and kill them , and you do not consider this murder .

I hope other posters on this forum take note of your OPINION in this matter.

[Buddhas Hand]

Yes, you understand.

Murder is something quite different being a crime of specific intent.

That is not an opinion - it is a fact.

[Wetcoaster]

Yeah buddy i understand ,you have absolutely no respect for justice , you are merely interested in the letter of the law , and are quite happy to see a murderer be sentenced to 15 days for his crime , and a young girl get twice as much for flippping the bird to a judge.

[Buddhas Hand]

Clearly you do not understand.

And I am most assuredly not your buddy.

And justice has any number of meanings and connotations.

There was no murder involved in the case you cited..

Ms Soto spent 5 days in county jail before she purged her contempt.