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Judge throws teen in jail for 30 days for giving him the finger.


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#271 nuckin_futz

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:35 AM

Noone should be charged for recreational drug use for one, and a prescription drug at that, and then sent to a jail where they're bound to be doped up on prescription drugs all day, and in this girl's case is probably going to have to be put on antidepressants after she gets out.


So what are you doing to get the law changed? Creating a petition? Perhaps contacting your elected representatives?

Actions speak louder than words.
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#272 sedated

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

She's technically being sent to jail because she was being an idiot in court, and then after she got a warning for her conduct, she thought it would be a brilliant move to give the judge the finger and talk crap to him as she walked away, not because of other stuff.

Generally only the stupid people like her go to jail for recreational drug use. If you're in your own home, and doing drugs of any kind, unless you OD or proceed to have an epic tantrum that gets the cops called on you, how are you even going to end up in jail for it? Now, if you decide to take drugs outside of your home, in public, or at a party, or while driving around, then obviously you are going to be much more prone for ending up in jail. Those are generally the stupid people.

Kind of like the whole 'legalize pot' movement. I mean, I don't smoke but I can respect and see the benefits of having it legalized, but it's kind of voided out when people take pictures and videos of them walking around getting high in public after the US legalized it in some states. I can respect serious conversations and people that are smart enough to do what they do in private by themselves or with friends, but a bunch of drugged out hippies shouting incoherently and having a party on the street about it isn't really going to do it for me.

The girl in the video was obviously an idiot, and played the part. If I was a parent and my kid acted like that toward me, I'd smack them one upside the head, or at least have to fight off the urge to. Not sure why anyone would put up with that attitude. Unfortunately for her, she showed it to someone who had the power to make her pay for it.

Glad to see she decided to not be an idiot in the second video. Notice how she got much more respect when she showed it? Shocking.
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#273 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

Oh look, she's not high this time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gJagiLc7tsw

So her bond was reduced and she was given the option of completing a drug course through a drug court which if completed would result in the case against her being dismissed.

Her criminal contempt incarceration continues but it sounds as if an application is going to be made to the previous judge so that she can purge her contempt.

The attitude adjustment program appears to have been successful.
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#274 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:44 AM

Most of society would hold you personally responsible for raising a delinquent and making her our problem. Guess it's all in how you look at it.


Exactly. It's too bad some parents aren't held accountable for their offspring's behavior when the child is much younger. Then these sproglettes wouldn't be in court at 18 receiving 30 days for contempt of court.


If it were my daughter I would be incredibly embarrassed at her behaviour in court and at my lack of parenting skills.


No kidding, eh? It's funny how it's the people who wouldn't raise their children to behave in such a manner to begin with who are on the non-bleeding heart side of this story and are the ones who would want to die a thousand deaths of embarrassment and disappear into the floor if their child behaved in such a manner. I guess we know the ones who would have children they'd be proud to be anywhere in public with........

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 07 February 2013 - 11:52 AM.

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#275 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:47 AM

So her bond was reduced and she was given the option of completing a drug course through a drug court which if completed would result in the case against her being dismissed.

Her criminal contempt incarceration continues but it sounds as if an application is going to be made to the previous judge so that she can purge her contempt.

The attitude adjustment program appears to have been successful.


Isn't that amazing? But oh how terrible it was to send her to jail...such unjust punishment. I think the second video is proof enough that the judge knew exactly what he was doing when he sent her there in the first place. Kudos to the judge......hard to refute this kind of proof that his approach works.
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#276 pimpcurtly

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

Glad to see she learned a lesson. Now just hope she can commit herself to getting the help she needs.
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#277 Tearloch7

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:00 PM

Exactly. It's too bad some parents aren't held accountable for their offspring's behavior when the child is much younger. Then these sproglettes wouldn't be in court at 18 receiving 30 days for contempt of court.




No kidding, eh? It's funny how it's the people who wouldn't raise their children to behave in such a manner to begin with who are on the non-bleeding heart side of this story and are the ones who would want to die a thousand deaths of embarrassment and disappear into the floor if their child behaved in such a manner. I guess we know the ones who would have children they'd be proud to be anywhere in public with........


Sproglettes? .. where in the HELL did you come up with that one from? .. I laughed outloud at the image it created .. then I googled "sproglette" and literally laughed my ass off .. discovered "smugparents" and sat back with a grin .. :lol:
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#278 TimberWolf

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:09 PM

Noone should be charged for recreational drug use for one, and a prescription drug at that, and then sent to a jail where they're bound to be doped up on prescription drugs all day, and in this girl's case is probably going to have to be put on antidepressants after she gets out.


Well I have got good news for you. She wasn't given any jail time for drug use.

The rest of your post would make a good Monday movie of the week plot. Probably starring that woman that played the mom from family ties.

Edited by TimberWolf, 07 February 2013 - 12:13 PM.

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I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#279 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:17 PM

Exactly. It's too bad some parents aren't held accountable for their offspring's behavior when the child is much younger. Then these sproglettes wouldn't be in court at 18 receiving 30 days for contempt of court.




No kidding, eh? It's funny how it's the people who wouldn't raise their children to behave in such a manner to begin with who are on the non-bleeding heart side of this story and are the ones who would want to die a thousand deaths of embarrassment and disappear into the floor if their child behaved in such a manner. I guess we know the ones who would have children they'd be proud to be anywhere in public with........


I know, I'm going to be such a terrible father.
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#280 Jägermeister

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:19 PM

Isn't that amazing? But oh how terrible it was to send her to jail...such unjust punishment. I think the second video is proof enough that the judge knew exactly what he was doing when he sent her there in the first place. Kudos to the judge......hard to refute this kind of proof that his approach works.



Florida Department of Corrections Recidivism Report:

2011 Florida Prison Recidivism Study
Releases From 2003 to 2010


April 2012

Florida Department of Corrections
Kenneth S. Tucker, Secretary
Bureau of Research and Data Analysis
dcresearch@mail.dc.state.fl.us


Introduction

The Florida Prison Recidivism Report is produced annually by the Bureau of Research and Data Analysis within the Florida Department of Corrections. The annual study aims to examine the issue of recidivism among Florida's released inmate population. While the use of recidivism as a performance indicator of the state's rehabilitative efforts can be debated, the analysis itself is of vital public importance. Given that 87% of inmates housed in Florida prisons today will one day be released back into our communities, those in charge of the state’s planning and budgeting need to know the likelihood that an inmate who is released today will one day return back to Florida’s prison system. More importantly, for the public and those charged with ensuring public safety, the state’s recidivism rate is an important measure of criminal activity caused by released prisoners.
When discussing recidivism rates, the factors that influence recidivism must be considered. For example, recidivism rates vary across age groups, racial/ethnic groups, and gender. In order to determine where and how to devote scarce correctional and community resources, we must identify which groups are most likely to fail when they are released from Florida’s prisons and which groups are likely to successfully re-enter society.
This study finds that the factors that influence Florida’s recidivism rate are generally consistent with existing research. A report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), shows the overall recidivism rate (return to prison for any reason within three years of release) for releases from 15 states participating in the study was approximately 52%.
It must be noted that, unlike most states, Florida paroles very few inmates and only about one third of released inmates have any supervision at all following their release. Since those who are supervised following release recidivate at higher rates than released inmates without supervision, it is important to remember that Florida’s recidivism rate may appear lower than another state due to these differences in release mechanisms.
When comparing recidivism rates across groups or programs, caution must be taken to ensure that the same parameters are considered. The key considerations include the definition of recidivism, the time-period of interest since release, methodology and calculation, characteristics of the respective groups, and the relative sample size of the groups or programs being compared.


But it actually works less than half of the time. I wouldn't consider that a successful approach.
Sending somebody to jail for such minor offences is a long way off from being a viable solution to getting them in line.

Edited by Jägermeister, 07 February 2013 - 12:32 PM.

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#281 TimberWolf

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:47 PM

So what are you doing to get the law changed? Creating a petition? Perhaps contacting your elected representatives?

Actions speak louder than words.


This calls for a facebook group!
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#282 Shift-4

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:50 PM

But it actually works less than half of the time. I wouldn't consider that a successful approach.
Sending somebody to jail for such minor offences is a long way off from being a viable solution to getting them in line.


I don't think the nature of this young lady's visit behind bars would fit into that study.
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#283 Jägermeister

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

I don't think the nature of this young lady's visit behind bars would fit into that study.


From the same study.

Only inmates released from Florida prisons from January 1, 2003 to December 31, 2010 were included in the study with the following exceptions:

  • Inmates who died or were executed have been omitted from the calculation of recidivism rates.
  • Inmates who are missing information on the factors of interest are omitted.
  • Inmates with more than one release in a calendar year have only the first such release included.
  • Inmates with detainers in place at the time of release are omitted.


No mention of any crime severity or length in jail requirement.
All inmates given a Florida prison sentence are included.
http://www.dc.state....ethodology.html

Regardless, it is evidence directly going against the idea that sending somebody to jail is an effective approach to having them change their ways.

Edited by Jägermeister, 07 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.

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#284 Shift-4

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:05 PM

From the same study.



No mention of any crime severity or length in jail requirement.
All inmates given a Florida prison sentence are included.
http://www.dc.state....ethodology.html

Regardless, it is evidence directly going against the idea that sending somebody to jail is an effective approach to having them change their ways.


Was she sent to prison?
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#285 Jägermeister

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:12 PM

Was she sent to prison?


If the judges sentence was carried out then she will be.
However, you were right about her not fitting into the study, as it is a county jail sentence which were excluded from the study.

My point wasn't originally being specific to this case, it was more to address that some people think that sending somebody to prison is an effective approach to change their attitude. The fact that recidivism rates are over 50% directly refutes that.

Edited by Jägermeister, 07 February 2013 - 01:12 PM.

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#286 Shift-4

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:15 PM

If the judges sentence was carried out then she will be.
However, you were right about her not fitting into the study, as it is a county jail sentence which were excluded from the study.

My point wasn't originally being specific to this case, it was more to address that some people think that sending somebody to prison is an effective approach to change their attitude. The fact that recidivism rates are over 50% directly refutes that.


I don't disagree with the study either. However, the situations are not identical. Those are convicted criminals going to prison and having a difficult time being rehabilitated in the study.
She was simply a young lady that needed an attitude adjustment.

While I understand the point you are trying to make I don't think you found the best support for it. :)
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#287 Electro Rock

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:19 PM

Well I have got good news for you. She wasn't given any jail time for drug use.

The rest of your post would make a good Monday movie of the week plot. Probably starring that woman that played the mom from family ties.


Why was she in kourt to begin with?

Anyways the reality of American prison is lot different than the movies.
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#288 Bertuzzi Babe

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Regardless, it is evidence directly going against the idea that sending somebody to jail is an effective approach to having them change their ways.


And yet...go figure.......Penelope Soto's behavior was remarkably improved when she appeared back in court. I would say that the video is proof that the judge accomplished exactly what he set out to do. It was a very different Soto who was back in court. :)

Edited by Bertuzzi Babe, 07 February 2013 - 02:05 PM.

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#289 Jägermeister

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

And yet...go figure.......Penelope Soto's behavior was remarkably improved when she appeared back in court. I would say that the video is proof that the judge accomplished exactly what he set out to do. It was a very different Soto who was back in court. :)


I won't argue that since it appears like it worked in this scenario, but just because something works once, or even several times, it does not mean it is a viable solution.

Edited by Jägermeister, 07 February 2013 - 02:38 PM.

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#290 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

I won't argue that it doesn't appear like it worked in this scenario, but just because something works once, or even several times, it does not mean it is a viable solution.

It seems a viable solution for proceedings involving criminal contempt in the face of the court.
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#291 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:37 PM

I won't argue that it doesn't appear like it worked in this scenario, but just because something works once, or even several times, it does not mean it is a viable solution.


It's magic what lack of access to drugs and a public defender can do for even someone like Soto.
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#292 TimberWolf

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

Why was she in kourt to begin with?


For breaking the law :)
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

“That guys an idiot. It’s his own fault if he can’t tell the difference between an all star center and a plug defenceman”

"It's not the location. We just can't beat the Canucks. Thank god they're in the West."


#293 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

It's magic what lack of access to drugs and a public defender can do for even someone like Soto.

Except Ms.Soto denied being on drugs and was represented by a public defender who made submissions trying to have her citation for criminal contempt amended or purged.
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#294 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

She was not jailed for drug possession nor any crime for which the usual sentencing principles would apply.


So basically jailed for being flippant, eh? Yeah that makes a ton more sense. This is ridiculously absurd, even for Florida.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#295 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:16 PM

It's magic what lack of access to drugs and a public defender can do for even someone like Soto.


Public "pretenders" in Florida are more corrupt than in any other state. I have a close personal friend who got into a little trouble down there and his "public defender"'s first words to him were "Down here on vacation? Looks like you'll leave on probation, at the very least". Professionalism isn't in a Florida PD's vocabulary.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#296 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:17 PM

So basically jailed for being flippant, eh? Yeah that makes a ton more sense. This is ridiculously absurd, even for Florida.

She was cited for criminal contempt in the face of the court and jailed after a summary hearing as is the usual process in numerous jurisdictions - not just Florida.
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#297 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:23 PM

Public "pretenders" in Florida are more corrupt than in any other state. I have a close personal friend who got into a little trouble down there and his "public defender"'s first words to him were "Down here on vacation? Looks like you'll leave on probation, at the very least". Professionalism isn't in a Florida PD's vocabulary.

Having listened to submissions made on her behalf, the Public Defender did his job but ultimately these matters are within the discretion of the trial judge to control his court room. The judge did what is required in such cases. He had the Defendant brought before him, held a summary proceeding in which the Defendant acknowledged her contemptuous conduct and he cited her for it. That is how such things are handled.

The legislature in Florida and in other jurisdictions of which I am aware has left the common law power via inherent jurisdiction in the hands of the individual judges to deal with criminal contempt in the face of the court.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 07 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

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#298 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

She was cited for criminal contempt in the face of the court and jailed after a summary hearing as is the usual process in numerous jurisdictions - not just Florida.


I'm talking about this entire case..it's loony. Judge with a chip on his shoulder gets fed up with a young drug addict either still in or barely out of high school, doesn't appreciate her "sass" and throws her in the clink. While he thinks this is going to make a positive difference in her life it is far more likely that this will just be a notch in her belt and will have the exact opposite effect that this judge was intending for her. What he needed to do was put her ass on a community service detail for the length of her jail sentence and have her stake garbage and refuse along the highway or have her raking leaves or something similar in like a state park or community park. That's what he should have done if he wanted this to be a learning experience or to actually help this girl. Judge basically looked at the girl like a spoiled brat, typical teenager, and felt it was his place to teach the "whippersnapper" a lesson by putting her in jail...the fact that as LC spoke of earlier the jail in question is Miami-Dade and the conditions therein are absolutely appalling makes this punishment even more harsh.

Edited by Scott Hartnell's Mane, 07 February 2013 - 03:30 PM.

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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#299 Scott Hartnell's Mane

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:29 PM

Having listened to submissions made on her behalf, the Public Defender did his job but ultimately these matters are within the discretion of the trial judge to control his court room. The judge did what is required in such cases. He had the Defendant brought before him, held a summary proceeding in which the Defendant acknowledged her contemptuous conduct and he cited her for it. That is how such things are handled.

The legislature in Florida and in other jurisdictions of which I am aware has left the common law power via inherent jurisdiction in the hands of the individual judges to deal with criminal contempt in the face of the court.


I'm sorry Public defenders never do their job. All they ever try to do is scare people into plea arrangements and make the job easier for the DA. Get a clue. They don't give a crap about whether their client is guilty or not.
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View PostScott Hartnell, on 11 June 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Well I tell you what Heretic..if Tim Tebow becomes Terry Bradshaw I will shave off all my hair, convert to Christianity, go into the ministry and become a preacher.

#300 Wetcoaster

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

I'm talking about this entire case..it's loony. Judge with a chip on his shoulder gets fed up with a young drug addict either still in or barely out of high school, doesn't appreciate her "sass" and throws her in the clink. While he thinks this is going to make a positive difference in her life it is far more likely that this will just be a notch in her belt and will have the exact opposite effect that this judge was intending for her. What he needed to do was put her ass on a community service detail for the length of her jail sentence and have her stake garbage and refuse along the highway or have her raking leaves or something similar in like a state park or community park. That's what he should have done if he wanted this to be a learning experience or to actually help this girl. Judge basically looked at the girl like a spoiled brat, typical teenager, and felt it was his place to teach the "whippersnapper" a lesson by putting her in jail...the fact that as LC spoke of earlier the jail in question is Miami-Dade and the conditions therein are absolutely appalling makes this punishment even more harsh.

You saw something I did not see. I saw a Defendant behaving badly and judge controlling his courtroom.

As I have pointed out this is not sentencing for a crime - so community service is not an option. He jailed her for criminal contempt in the face of the court.
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