Judge throws teen in jail for 30 days for giving him the finger.

[Wetcoaster]

That's what I thought too but apparently Z saw it a little differently.

[Ghostsof1915]

Her problem started when she laughed at the judge when he didn't know what Xanax bars was.

The her lovely attitude of "Well I have a lot of jewellery alright."

When the Judge asked her how much her jewellery was worth (Important in a bail hearing) she laughed, like it was a game.

She denied she used drugs in a 24 hour period.

She refused to give a dollar amount for her jewellery.

Then it got worse.

She was given countless opportunities to save herself, but she kept digging a deeper hole for herself.

At any time she could have said she was sorry, or she was nervous.

Wetcoaster can verify for me, but from what I've seen of contempt charges, the judge can bring her in anytime in the 30 days and review the matter and see if she has smartened up.

It's not too much to ask for people to be accountable for their actions. Rehab is hopefully the best destination for that girl, but respect is two way street. It's pretty hard to respect someone who doesn't respect themselves. The Judge seemed to me pretty tolerant up until her Adios comment. Some lessons you get a chance to learn from. There are people who make bad decisions and pay for it with their lives, she should count herself lucky and maybe think about her actions around others in the future.

[Tearloch7]

^ ^ ^ Wise words ..

[Dral]

Yes she was stupid. The way you deal with that is through education, not incarceration.

Yes she was disrespectful. The way you deal with that is to give positive role models and show what respect is - again, not locking someone in a cage surrounded by harden criminals who will teach her the exact opposite lesson.

[Tearloch7]

IYes she was stupid. The way you deal with that is through education, not incarceration.

Yes she was disrespectful. The way you deal with that is to give positive role models and show what respect is - again, not locking someone in a cage surrounded by harden criminals who will teach her the exact opposite lesson.

[Bertuzzi Babe]

you seem to miss the point that Penelope was NOT in some Juvie Court .. she was being tried as an adult and acted like a petulant punk-ass kid .. she would find kinderd souls her within the confines of CDC ..

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

Xanax bars, footballs...I've read up more on this case, and as much as I want to say the punishment was harsh...I have changed my tune now. However...I don't think jail is the right answer. Anyone with a brain knows that drugs of any kind (prescription, coke, meth, speed) are available in the US jail and prison system. If he really wanted to do something effective, he'd put her on one of those work release programs where she'd be staking garbage along the highway all day or cleaning up a park instead of sitting in a jail cell negotiating for her next Xanax fix. Locking her in a cage with the same kind of offenders, scrip drugs, etc...what do you think that's going to do...is it going to break her of her addiction, or is it going to exacerbate it? Was rehab even considered in this case? I can vouch that when you are hooked on a prescription pill, your mind doesn't operate normally. Your behaviors are erratic, you're irritable, confrontational...if they really REALLY want to help this girl...send her to rehab where at the age of 18 maybe she could break free from the chains of prescription drug addiction...don't throw her in a jail cell, have her do nothing for however long she's in there, and expect that she's going to be rehabilitated...that is the biggest joke I have ever heard. There is no such thing as rehabilitation in the US jail system...hence the high recidivism rate.

[Lockout Casualty]

Save your sympathy, or share it amongst the others here who are of the same opinion as me as I am not the only one with this view of the situation. Have a nice night.

The point seems to be being missed by a great number of people here, T7

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

The point is quite obviously not missed. You may be missing people's posts while you roll around on the floor, presumably laughing (funny, I remember RUPERTKBD chastising Zaibatsu for his overuse of laughing emotes).

[Lockout Casualty]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...but is it a crime now to laugh and have a good time while sifting through the chaff here on CDC? Are we required to be emotionless automatons or keyboard monkeys? What's next...is there going to be an educational thread instructing how and when to use emoticons?

Mellow out

[-DLC-]

Well said 1915.

Here's the deal about rehab vs jail...people generally don't respond well to rehab if they're forced to go and it's not of their own desire. That defiant attitude just carries over and is directed toward treatment staff, so a softening is likely in order. So, as much as it's a waste of resources to throw her in jail, the same rings true for ordering her directly to treatment (that also comes with a cost - part of that being wasting appointment blocks that could be used for people who are committed to changing). Often, that point (rehab having a positive effect) comes after hitting a low and jail can be that low for some. People are assuming she'll blend in and be one of the jail crowd but these tough facades are sometimes just that and perhaps showing her that she's not so tough will bring her back to reality in a scared straight way. That she'll hit her low and then rehab will be more effective?

I worked in an outpatient treatment center and people who were ordered by the courts for referrals to treatment were usually just wasting everyone's time and it often was a revolving door thing. It became a game. After going to jail (sometimes it takes more than one visit), some would come to decide for themselves that they'd had enough because it was a more serious thing and an important step in the process.

Again, that was just my own observation and I don't have the numbers to back it up. But court ordered patients just became frequent fliers in most situations because they had no intention of absorbing the program and just did the time. The resistance factor was strong.

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

Well said 1915.

Here's the deal about rehab vs jail...people generally don't respond well to rehab if they're forced to go and it's not of their own desire. That defiant attitude just carries over and is directed toward treatment staff, so a softening is likely in order. So, as much as it's a waste of resources to throw her in jail, the same rings true for ordering her directly to treatment (that also comes with a cost - part of that being wasting appointment blocks that could be used for people who are committed to changing). Often, that point (rehab having a positive effect) comes after hitting a low and jail can be that low for some. People are assuming she'll blend in and be one of the jail crowd but these tough facades are sometimes just that and perhaps showing her that she's not so tough will bring her back to reality in a scared straight way. That she'll hit her low and then rehab will be more effective?

I worked in an outpatient treatment center and people who were ordered by the courts for referrals to treatment were usually just wasting everyone's time and it often was a revolving door thing. It became a game. After going to jail (sometimes it takes more than one visit), some would come to decide for themselves that they'd had enough because it was a more serious thing and an important step in the process.

Again, that was just my own observation and I don't have the numbers to back it up. But court ordered patients just became frequent fliers in most situations because they had no intention of absorbing the program and just did the time. The resistance factor was strong.

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

Not at all my good man. It just comes across as childish and derogatory toward those of us who have thought and presented our arguments. Some of the behaviors in this thread really make me wonder about the presumed age of the posters. Then again, it appears perfectly alright to call other people idiots in so many words, or to imply anyone who disagrees lacks the intellectual capacity for discussion. This thread is very unfriendly is what I'm trying to get at, and it isn't because of Zaibatsu's "fluff" as the contents of his posts have been deemed by the intellectual elite.

[-DLC-]

Speaking as someone who went through a rehab program for my Klonopin addiction I agree with you to an extent...the defiant attitude would certainly not be tolerated in the program I had to go to, though. I received probation for my offense...I guess had I been flippant the judge would have thrown me in jail too, but again I think her defiant attitude is a byproduct of the pharmaceutical poison she's been immersing herself in...take away the Xanax and there is no attitude, most likely.

Agree with you 100%...we had a zero tolerance, as well as the treatment centers carrying policies about abusive behavior. But that's part of the problem....even though it isn't "tolerated", it also doesn't change it. And, while some people successfully have a turning point during that struggle, many are simply not "there" (ready for treatment) yet.

I also do think that jail could have the opposite effect and she'll come out thinking it's raised her cool status. That's a risk in throwing her into jail...that it'll work into the lifestyle she's choosing and simply be part of it. It's a tricky thing.

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

Agree with you 100%...we had a zero tolerance, as well as the treatment centers carrying policies about abusive behavior. But that's part of the problem....even though it isn't "tolerated", it also doesn't change it. And, while some people successfully have a turning point during that struggle, many are simply not "there" (ready for treatment) yet.

I also do think that jail could have the opposite effect and she'll come out thinking it's raised her cool status. That's a risk in throwing her into jail...that it'll work into the lifestyle she's choosing and simply be part of it. It's a tricky thing.

[Lockout Casualty]

Again just playing Devil's Advocate but this is a thread about an 18 year old drug addicted young woman whose "lifestyle" let's call it.. led to her acting out in court and being thrown into jail with an egregious bail. Did you honestly expect the discussion in this thread, after considering the topic..was going to be "friendly"?

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

I don't see how one can justify lack of respect by one side in a debate with the subject of the thread.

[Lockout Casualty]

I'm not trying to justify anything, LC...I'm just making an observation. One doesn't join a thread with this topic of discussion and expect everyone to hold hands and sing Kumbaya...that's just not logical, is it?

[Scott Hartnell's Mane]

I don't seem to have a problem. Strange.

[Lockout Casualty]

I say this with the utmost respect but really? Here, on CDC, with all of the bedlam that inhabits almost every other thread in the Off Topic Forum..you can say with a straight face that you came into this discussion thread..and didn't in the least expect it to turn into a poo flinging match? No offense to any lesser primates among us.