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Thoughts on the Window of Opportunity


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#31 playboi19

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:14 PM

We should take a risk on some highly skilled Russians in the draft. One is usually hanging around in the 2nd/3rd round.
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#32 iinatcc

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

I'm afraid I wouldn't really want the cup this year. Seems like an asterisk year, what with the no pre-season or camp and half as many games. I know a cup is a cup, but it wold be a hollow victory in my mind.


Tell that to LBJ :P
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#33 Nucks fan555555

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:07 PM

I remember Detroit in the early 90's and their window was closing as Stevie Y was getting older and not as dominant... yada yada yada.... How many cups did they win since?

Well they got lucky and drafted Datsyuk and Zetterburg, their two top offensive guys in the last rounds of drafts. What are the chances of us drafting superstar players in the 7th round?
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#34 Westcoasting

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:41 PM

Well they got lucky and drafted Datsyuk and Zetterburg, their two top offensive guys in the last rounds of drafts. What are the chances of us drafting superstar players in the 7th round?


But before them they also won two cups and lost one!
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#35 DSVII

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

1. Right now the Canucks are a very good team and when Kesler and Booth come back they will probably be as good as any team in the NHL.


Agreed, can you imagine a canucks team with a healthy second line going into playoffs?

2. The key to the Stanley Cup is often having a hot goaltender (think of the last two Cups and the role of Quick and Thomas). If the Canucks keeps both Luongo and Schneider they double their chances of having a top flight goalie who gets hot at the right time. I think that what Gillis is doing makes sense. Unless he gets a great deal for Luongo (or Schneider) having them both available for the playoffs probably gives the Canucks their best shot a Cup.


With recent trends, agree as well, I'm in the 'keep both goalies' until the playoffs camp, unless someone offers Gillis something insane like a Corey Perry or a Parise haha. which i seriously doubt.

The wild card in what we get for our goalies i believe is Tim Thomas, no one knows what team he will sign for and there's an elite UFA goalie right there to sign in the offseason. (although i don't think he will do well outside of teams like Boston, New Jersey, New York, who have good defensive systems in place)

3. We all know about the age-related issues. The core of the Canucks for the last several years has been the Sedins. Without their scoring (and high performance to cap-hit ratio) the Canucks would just be a good team, not a genuine cup contender. And they are about the age where you expect an age-related decline to start. We should not see a big drop-off in performance, and they will still be good players for a few years yet, but they will not be as dominant.


I think we can expect a few more years out of the Sedins. I'd like to think they will age gracefully like the zetterbergs and datysuks of the league. Plus, secondary scoring is a bigger concern IMO.

4. The cap reduction of about 6 million will hurt the Canucks as much as it hurts any team next year. The Canucks will not be able to have over 9 million devoted to goaltenders or pay 4.2 million for Ballard. Ballard and one goaltender will have to go and even then there will not be room to add anyone at a significant cap hit. Even re-signing Raymond, Malhotra, Higgins, and Lapierre is in doubt for cap-related reasons.


Compared to teams like Washington who have $9 mill invested in one player, having the top tandem in the league for $9 mill isn't so bad, but yeah we gotta offload something :( WIN THE CUP NOW!!

5. The only really good young player who should improve enough to be a core contributor over the next few years is Kassian. Most of the core players are veterans. Tanev is young and good but I see him levelling off where he is now -- a solid defensive D who can play shutdown but without much offensive contribution and without a physical game -- a great guy to have a low cap hit. And the recent draft picks are a few years away.

Disagree on Tanev, I think he still has room to grow. Schroeder looks good. And how about Nicklas Jensen? I can see that kid cracking the lineup in a few years. Not to mention Eddie Lack, one of the best goalies in the AHL.

I'm afraid I wouldn't really want the cup this year. Seems like an asterisk year, what with the no pre-season or camp and half as many games. I know a cup is a cup, but it wold be a hollow victory in my mind.
.


This is the equivalent attitude of some people I've seen on the board asking during our cup run whether it would be better to win it in Boston or Van (and look how that turned out ;)) like it was a done deal.

There will never be a perfect win, so just win it in any way, shape or form. It's the cup! The hardest trophy to win in sports. And it only comes by once in a lifetime to some teams. Our first cup win will always be memorable no matter how you slice it. I would take a cup in a heartbeat, i don't care if we won it in 82 game regular season, or a 10 game season, or even playing in space! A cup is a cup!


I would LOVE to hear "Vancouver only has half a cup" from "No cup ever". I would gladly take the asterisk. But In my mind, A cup is a cup, do you still hear anyone contesting the 95 Devils' win? Not to mention you'll still have sixteen of the top teams in the NHL battling tooth and nail for it.

Even if it is a shortened season, just to win it will really have this team get over a mental hurdle IMHO to go for more. Plus, the nucks really have nothing more to prove in the regular season.

Edited by DSVII, 08 February 2013 - 09:12 PM.

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#36 Coconuts

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

As long as the team remains competitive and makes the playoffs we've got a chance. We might not have the powerhouse team we've had the last few seasons but we'll have a chance. Gillis doesn't seem to be building for a window of opportunity so much as looking for long-term stability.
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#37 Kulikov

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

Yeah, I agree completely about playoff scoring. Everyone checks as hard as they can. 100%. Goals come from lucky bounces, mistakes, and the ability of high skilled plays to create chances.

It's awesome having two great goalies and I can live with it but probably only one plays in the playoffs, although this year goalies could be changed in the playoffs with minimal adaptation.

If we did make a trade I would be worried about what AV would do with all of the wingers unless one was traded. In my opinion one of the problems with having a versitile line up like we do. We can play people all over the place and help cover injuries and such but when the competition level hightens we struggle to compete playwise. I don't see too much problem with having an actual player that is more envisioned to play the second line role than the three we have now. Then again, there is now Kassian who may get a shot on that line.


I agree totally, while I believe booth and Kes to be underperforming I also don't believe they're compatible players. They both want to carry the puck all the time, doesn't work. In fairness they've also never been paired with anyone that is an actual 2nd line player. Moving a goalie for a top line RW allows burr and Kes to re-unite and the 2nd line would have something it hasn't had since they were split up. CHEMISTRY! And way more skill than we've seen in years.. Packaging some spare wingers (Raymond, etc..) and a pick to get bigger and more skilled at 3C would be a good move too. I'd like to see this..

Sedins-(Trade for 1st line RW)
Burr-Kes-Kassian
Booth-(Trade for 3C)-Hansen
Higgins-Manny/Schroeder-Lappi

Deeeep. This is what cup teams look like, when their 4th lines are most what most teams 3rd lines look like..and some teams second lines. Looking at you Leafs..
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#38 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:03 PM

Agreed, can you imagine a canucks team with a healthy second line going into playoffs?


Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Malhotra - Lapierre

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Edler
Ballard - Tanev

Luongo & Schneider

:towel:
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#39 Nuckhead13

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

I'm afraid I wouldn't really want the cup this year. Seems like an asterisk year, what with the no pre-season or camp and half as many games. I know a cup is a cup, but it wold be a hollow victory in my mind.
That said, the window was extended by some wise moves on MG's part. Namely Kassian and Schneider. Other key pieces to the puzzle are a solid d-core, which can always be supplemented by rentals, and a nice variety of fairly young, scrappy forwards - Burr, Kes, Higgins, Hansen, Lappierre and others.
Age isn't going to be a factor for a while. Even then it won't be much of a factor.
The only piece that may be problematic is the head coach, but that may not even matter so much.

what if you thought about it not as a short season or

I hear what you're saying about the "asterisk year" but consider this:

1) The Canucks were Presidents Trophy winners the last two seasons and how much does this count for the fans? More than any other contemporary team the Canucks have proven to be 82 game season champions and I'd say they'll be right up there again (top 5 for sure) this season. However, the bottom line is nobody cares about the Presidents Trophy winner, they're playing third-line fiddle to the Stanley Cup winner and their opponent.

2) This abbreviated regular season still gives ample opportunity for the cream to rise to the top. The best of the best will still be the ones making it into the play-offs. Plus, what is lost in the drawn out 82 game season has been replaced by a gruelling condensed season so, in a way, teams are still facing the the pre-playoff punishment they would have.

3) It's still 16 wins to The Cup. The road to The Cup (in games played) is longer than the NFL regular season's 16 games.

I'd agree that the window is now. The core has (1-3) years given their age and the foibles of the cap system but we'll never have the same goaltending opportunity that we have this season. We will not have two #1 golaies next season.

A-F#%^N-Men Brotha. this whole "astrix", or "write off season' is annoying. i think they're just worried about what everyone else is gonna say when whatever team wins it this year. i won't care a damn. all i want is for Van to get us a damn Cup!
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#40 fanfor42

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:30 AM

Couple of thoughts. Lu will be traded if Gillis gets a good enough offer. He will pull the trigger if he's given the right deal. Who wouldn't? He is not committed to waiting to the off season in order to give the team two good goalies throughout this shortened year and the playoffs. Think about it.

Second, remember last year in the playoffs, Lu was pulled. But the team was already behind in the series at that point. This is the flaw in the " two goalies give us a better chance in the playoffs" theory. By the time you know that one guy isn't hot you're already behind the 8 ball.
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#41 Phil_314

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:38 AM

I think the only somewhat urgent position that really needs to be worried about when it comes to keeping the window open is the drafting and development of another top-flight skilled center for the future (Gaunce is okay but his skating speed's repeatedly been put into question by scouts, and Hank's pretty durable but there will be a day when he retires inevitably; Kes is injury-prone now and I wouldn't want to rush Brendan or Schroeder to play above their levels).

The reason I focus on the future of the team's centers is because they really aren't very deep; on the wings there's decent young depth (Raymond, Hansen, heck Booth's still only 28 and they have Jensen and Kassian coming up, plus some wingers can play on the opposite side to offset any lack of depth); on D the Top 4's set for awhile (Edler's 26, Garrison's 28 and Tanev's 23 and should develop quite nicely, with Corrado, Connauton, Price, McNally, etc. developing) and in net they're pretty deep too (Lu, Cory, Lack, Cannata). Labate was supposed to have good upside but haven't heard from him for awhile, and Gaunce's been playing wing with Belleville. Schroeder's already up with the team, and doubt Mallet/ Friesen will amount to much.

For now I really wouldn't worry too much aside from that; the Twins are still doing their thing (though at slower rate) and aside from them, Burr, Hamhuis, Lu and Bieksa the rest of the team's under 30. If they really slow down that's when they should try to infuse more youth or give the roster guys bigger roles, but the window should stay open as long as the group can be retained.

Edited by g@m3b0i, 09 February 2013 - 01:40 AM.

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#42 Bodee

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 04:19 AM

So,you would rather win the cup "no matter the circumstance" than win the President's Trophy by simply out performing and leading every other team in the league in every meaningful statistic? So it is the Cup, not what the Cup signifies, that you care most about? Is it me, or is this everything that is wrong with our species on the whole?


I totally agree. IF they were the same format but they aren't. The SC is a WAR and always has been, a series of best of 7 battles of attrition.

The President's Trophy imo is won by the best team in the league. The SC is won by the toughest, fittest and more often than not one of the biggest teams in the league. That said, I always think a SC team needs one or maybe 2 "game changers" Guys who are hard to hunt down, difficult to nail, unrelenting and with the killer instinct, eye for an opening.

Of course I have omitted the one "given" A goalie who plays lights out.

I don't think we will win the SC, this year or next. Anyone who reads my posts will know why I think that, however I will repeat it anyway.
MG has repeatedly failed to give this team SC winning players to augment the weakness we showed in 2011. We are undersized for a best of 7 format (I hear you say we went to game 7................but at what cost? We are still paying the price )

We don't have a big high quality sniper and we don't have big physical points scorer to play with and protect the Sedins. We don't have a big first line D. Both Bieksa and Hamhuis are great players but are often dwarfed by the opposition offence. This leads to lack of goalie protection (have you watched Bieksa trying to move a big forward, sometimes its comical)

You can't base a SC winning team around 2 first liners like the Twins unless you compensate. Kassian may or may not be part of the compensation but it won't be this season (or likely next)

So you see imo Gillis has had 2 years to upgrade the attrition and sniping qualities of the team and if anything we are slightly further back than we were, while many of the teams who were just not in it 2 years ago have addressed their deficiencies.

On a more optimistic note I still think we might be in the running for another PT because we have a great regular season team. I also think we might get to the 3rd/4th round of the playoffs.............but then we will be dominated and battered by probably teams like the Sharks, Preds, Ducks............and maybe even LA again.

Edited by Bodee, 09 February 2013 - 04:22 AM.

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#43 Zissou

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

So,you would rather win the cup "no matter the circumstance" than win the President's Trophy by simply out performing and leading every other team in the league in every meaningful statistic? So it is the Cup, not what the Cup signifies, that you care most about? Is it me, or is this everything that is wrong with our species on the whole?


We've done the president's trophy - twice. Regular season success is great, but playoff success is what team's get remembered for. in 10 years no one is gonna ask who won the president's trophy, the only thing that matters really is the cup. And personally, I don't care how a team gets it, as long as all 29 other teams have the exact same circumstances to get through, how is it a hollow win?
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#44 clutesi

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:53 AM

As someone already said you still need to win 16 games in the playoffs. The playoffs are a whole new season and I'll take the cup any way we can get it.

Edited by clutesi, 09 February 2013 - 09:53 AM.

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#45 rb4u

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:28 AM

2. The key to the Stanley Cup is often having a hot goaltender (think of the last two Cups and the role of Quick and Thomas). If the Canucks keeps both Luongo and Schneider they double their chances of having a top flight goalie who gets hot at the right time. I think that what Gillis is doing makes sense. Unless he gets a great deal for Luongo (or Schneider) having them both available for the playoffs probably gives the Canucks their best shot a Cup.


I've always said that the cup almost always goes to the club with the hottest goaltender.
Look at what happened to LA last year and BOS the year before.
Having two Number 1s can only be a good thing (if their ice times are managed properly).
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#46 Pouria

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

Over the last few years there has been a lot of talk about the Canucks window of opportunity to win a Cup. This year might be the best shot for a while and I think the goalie situation is a key aspect of the situation. Here is the thinking.

1. Right now the Canucks are a very good team and when Kesler and Booth come back they will probably be as good as any team in the NHL.

2. The key to the Stanley Cup is often having a hot goaltender (think of the last two Cups and the role of Quick and Thomas). If the Canucks keeps both Luongo and Schneider they double their chances of having a top flight goalie who gets hot at the right time. I think that what Gillis is doing makes sense. Unless he gets a great deal for Luongo (or Schneider) having them both available for the playoffs probably gives the Canucks their best shot a Cup.

3. We all know about the age-related issues. The core of the Canucks for the last several years has been the Sedins. Without their scoring (and high performance to cap-hit ratio) the Canucks would just be a good team, not a genuine cup contender. And they are about the age where you expect an age-related decline to start. We should not see a big drop-off in performance, and they will still be good players for a few years yet, but they will not be as dominant.

4. The cap reduction of about 6 million will hurt the Canucks as much as it hurts any team next year. The Canucks will not be able to have over 9 million devoted to goaltenders or pay 4.2 million for Ballard. Ballard and one goaltender will have to go and even then there will not be room to add anyone at a significant cap hit. Even re-signing Raymond, Malhotra, Higgins, and Lapierre is in doubt for cap-related reasons.

5. The only really good young player who should improve enough to be a core contributor over the next few years is Kassian. Most of the core players are veterans. Tanev is young and good but I see him levelling off where he is now -- a solid defensive D who can play shutdown but without much offensive contribution and without a physical game -- a great guy to have a low cap hit. And the recent draft picks are a few years away.

Bottom Line: This year is probably going to be the best shot for a while.


There is no window of opportunity for the Canucks because they have always been successful ever since 2002. They've fired General Managers twice and a coach once yet they have been consistently good to great in the past decade. Looking at the lineup, we have a great young goalie, great young D-core and good young upcoming forwards like Schroeder and Kassian.
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#47 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:03 PM

Win the Prez and the Cup this year. We will be considered the most dominant team of the decade so far.
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#48 rb4u

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

Win the Prez and the Cup this year. We will be considered the most dominant team of the decade so far.


Win the Prez WITHOUT the Cup this year, and we will be known as the SJ Sharks...

Edited by rb4u, 09 February 2013 - 12:59 PM.

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#49 Kassian's Face

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

I think with the playoffs prize caps doubled and all signs are pointing to high growth for a significantly increased cap for the 14/15 season, that players may sign short 1 year contracts with big prize potential in the play offs. That way when the salary cap is increased to almost 70 million players can then sign the contracts they deserve/want.

On the topic of our window is closing I would like to rectify that statement. I believe the window for the Sedins to be the number 1 line while we are contenders is closing. They have 2-3 more years as our top line before they start to be out performed by our rising stars. When you create an atmosphere for long term winning like the Canucks have, you get players that will sign at reduced salaries to stay here albeit with a NTC. We have star Defense and goal tending in the ranks and we have some good centres, and I am sure we can pick up a few wingers through trades and free agency as we go.
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#50 canucksnihilist

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

shortened season so don't want to win? why are we bothering playing any games then? ridiculous.

window closing? some teams just hit that stride and win it all. that is more typical than a window closing. that said, you have to have the pieces that CAN come together, and that is the only window that exists.

so ya, we have a window. it may be longer than you all think...
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#51 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

Win the Prez WITHOUT the Cup this year, and we will be known as the SJ Sharks...


OMG so true, like the San Diego Chargers of the NHL. Must be something in the water down there.
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#52 Noheart

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:36 PM

With the parity in the league all you need is a ticket to the playoffs with a hot Goalie.
Next thing you know you're flipping over a police car on YouTube.
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